James Garner

the chameleon

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Come on. Tom Thorpe wasn't cut out for high level senior football.
He was captain for England at various youth levels. He also captained our youth teams (including the FA Youth Cup winners in 2011). He was great in a lot of the academy games and should have gone the same way as Michael Keane. Unfortunately, he never made that jump. You could say he wasn't cut out for senior level, we put other reasons behind it. But what you can't deny is that he showed great promise. Promise which wasn't fulfilled. My point about Garner is that it could go either way at this point. From watching the youth teams since I was a kid, I've always wanted our own boys coming through and becoming world class, but it rarely does. For every Rashford, there will be 50 guys in the academy that will never make it here.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Come on. Tom Thorpe wasn't cut out for high level senior football.
Personally I disagree...I thought he would have made a cracking right back in the mould of Gary Neville.

However, he wasted a lot of time between 2011 and 2014 playing in a crap league.

He should have gone on loan or been pushed into the first team earlier.

I think he just stagnated and that wrecked him.

There was absolutely nothing (pace, reading of game, tackling, attitude, leadership) that prevented him from making it except opportunity.

I still believe we lost an excellent prospect.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I think its character. Technical abilities are nothing if you don't have the confidence and drive to operate at higher levels where you are under increasing amounts of pressure and scrutiny. He's made no impression at any of the professional clubs he's been at and has chosen to play in India as a young player. It says a lot in my opinion.
 

Ekeke

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Personally I disagree...I thought he would have made a cracking right back in the mould of Gary Neville.

However, he wasted a lot of time between 2011 and 2014 playing in a crap league.

He should have gone on loan or been pushed into the first team earlier.

I think he just stagnated and that wrecked him.

There was absolutely nothing (pace, reading of game, tackling, attitude, leadership) that prevented him from making it except opportunity.

I still believe we lost an excellent prospect.
He's playing in the Indian Super League.

If you're right, then another club would have rehabilitated him.
 

limerickcitykid

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Character :houllier: he literally captained England and our youth teams. The epitome of pressure and scrutiny a youth player can have. We wasted 3 years of his career and fecked his development.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Character :houllier: he literally captained England and our youth teams. The epitome of pressure and scrutiny a youth player can have. We wasted 3 years of his career and fecked his development.
Youth football is completely different to men's football. There are loads of players that play at youth international level and do nothing in senior football.
 

AltiUn

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What are his technical qualities?
He reads the game very well and he's a brilliant passer, short and long. Very reliable defensively too. He helps us control games really well, he's a bit like Carrick in that respect.
 

Adisa

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He reads the game very well and he's a brilliant passer, short and long. Very reliable defensively too. He helps us control games really well, he's a bit like Carrick in that respect.
Thanks.
 

Ekeke

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Other clubs don't want to take risks...it's a personal view...that's all.
I dont think its fair to say the entire world of football other than the Indian Super League dont take risks. Clearly clubs have had a look at him over the course of his career. And while he may be better than the Indian Super League, he's obviously not quite good enough for here
 

trevor newnham

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He reads the game very well and he's a brilliant passer, short and long. Very reliable defensively too. He helps us control games really well, he's a bit like Carrick in that respect.
he does like a tackle too
 

Beaucoup

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I dont think its fair to say the entire world of football other than the Indian Super League dont take risks. Clearly clubs have had a look at him over the course of his career. And while he may be better than the Indian Super League, he's obviously not quite good enough for here
I heard from a very good source that he acted like a proper big time Charlie at Rotherham, thought he was too good for the club and the players around weren’t having any of it.
 

RooneyLegend

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Our juniors are let down by the football structure in England. We develop players in the mould of what we want, sadly if they fail here they go down the pyramid and there having certain types of players is pointless. Watching the championship is really an eyesore.
 

SteveW

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Never quite saw the hype with Thorpe. Thought he'd have made the championship at least though
 

In Rainbows

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Never quite saw the hype with Thorpe. Thought he'd have made the championship at least though
Could play it out from the back, was a leader at the back, and made fewer mistakes than Keane. I never understood how anyone could rate Keane over Thorpe. Height was the only thing he had that was better, which is obviously important. But my point is, that based on their performances at youth level, Thorpe was the better player. The exact opposite unfolded at 1st team level, but then that's what happens.
 

SteveW

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Could play it out from the back, was a leader at the back, and made fewer mistakes than Keane. I never understood how anyone could rate Keane over Thorpe. Height was the only thing he had that was better, which is obviously important. But my point is, that based on their performances at youth level, Thorpe was the better player. The exact opposite unfolded at 1st team level, but then that's what happens.
Keane surprised me. Had a feeling he might do better than Will who was grossly overrated on here but didn't see him holding down a place at a club like Everton.
 

RedSky

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Our juniors are let down by the football structure in England. We develop players in the mould of what we want, sadly if they fail here they go down the pyramid and there having certain types of players is pointless. Watching the championship is really an eyesore.
That was an accurate statement 5/6 seasons a go but Championship football is improving. I'm not sure how true that is anymore, there's also more teenagers coming through at that level. Its moving in the right direction.
 

RooneyLegend

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That was an accurate statement 5/6 seasons a go but Championship football is improving. I'm not sure how true that is anymore, there's also more teenagers coming through at that level. Its moving in the right direction.
but it still has some way to go. Spanish football for example never hemorrhage talent cause it's easy for it to resurface. It's been traditionally hard for that to happen in England.
 

RedSky

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but it still has some way to go. Spanish football for example never hemorrhage talent cause it's easy for it to resurface. It's been traditionally hard for that to happen in England.
Spanish and Italian football is having a real issue with youth right now. Barely any given a genuine chance, it's a bit sad really. They'll be heading the way of Netherlands if they aren't careful.
 

Mr PG

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I think its character. Technical abilities are nothing if you don't have the confidence and drive to operate at higher levels where you are under increasing amounts of pressure and scrutiny. He's made no impression at any of the professional clubs he's been at and has chosen to play in India as a young player. It says a lot in my opinion.
Nah sometimes they have those in abundance but lack sufficient athleticism to apply it in the men’s game
 

AP88

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Personally I disagree...I thought he would have made a cracking right back in the mould of Gary Neville.

However, he wasted a lot of time between 2011 and 2014 playing in a crap league.

He should have gone on loan or been pushed into the first team earlier.

I think he just stagnated and that wrecked him.

There was absolutely nothing (pace, reading of game, tackling, attitude, leadership) that prevented him from making it except opportunity.

I still believe we lost an excellent prospect.
The biggest issue for me was him being moved into midfield, because he ‘could’ do it, not ‘should’. That’s where he played for his other clubs as well, so it’s no surprise he never fulfilled his potential as he had all the attributes to become an accomplished Premier League defender, at least to the Lindelof standard.

It’s a weird obsession that football collectively had in this country at the turn of the decade; Jack Rodwell was also an immensely talented central defender at Everton who was perhaps deemed ‘too good’ of a footballer to play at the back so instead naively pushed ito midfield, so the likes of Smalling and Jones were instead projected as the future of England’s defence and set us back 5 years in transition from Terry, King, Ferdinand etc.

Stones recently for City, and even Rio for a brief few games around about 2005 (I think) showed that it’s one thing being an accomplished ball-playing defender compared to an elite midfield pivot.

Rodwell and Thorpe are now spending their peak years in limbo because of such idiocy, which is a shame.

Regarding Garner, I also think his ceiling will be higher if he steps back into defense too.
 
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Thiagoal

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Garner reminds me so much of Carrick; he's in the perfect place to develop! His vision and passing between the lines is exactly what Ole wants from his deep midfielders too (see Matic's improved performances recently) The fact a 17 year old midfielder is getting in the first team squad tells you all you need to know about his potential!
 

izec

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Where did you find out who’s in the squad?
Think the MEN or Mirror have posted something about the players who are at the hotel.


At the Hotel

Goalkeepers (2): Sergio Romero, Lee Grant
Defenders (5): Diogo Dalot, Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Victor Lindelof, Matteo Darmian
Midfielders (5): James Garner, Scott McTominay, Andreas Pereira, Marouane Fellaini, Fred
Forwards (6): Juan Mata, Alexis Sanchez, Tahith Chong, Marcus Rashford, Romelu Lukaku, Anthony Martial
 

mattunited1978

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That was an accurate statement 5/6 seasons a go but Championship football is improving. I'm not sure how true that is anymore, there's also more teenagers coming through at that level. Its moving in the right direction.
Agree with this, the likes of Forest are spending 10 millian plus on talented young playmakers from Benfica, few year ago championship teams would be spending that money on a midfield donkey who gets stuck in. Wolves being the obvious example last year of bringing in talented young players who could play and being very successful.
 

AP88

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From what I’ve seen recently of Garner, Levitt is ahead of him in terms of being the better midfield orchestrator - the kid looks Pirlo-esque at times - but I see potential for James to now begin the transition into a full-time ball playing central defender; his ceiling there is much higher IMO, he has every attribute necessary to reach the top of the game there.

In that role, he could be a few loan spells over the next few years away from challenging for a first team spot. He’s got a bit of a Ramos-like penchant for shithousery that could make him a candidate to lead the club into a new era of academy intergration.
 

P-Nut

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From what I’ve seen recently of Garner, Levitt is ahead of him in terms of being the better midfield orchestrator - the kid looks Pirlo-esque at times - but I see potential for James to now begin the transition into a full-time ball playing central defender; his ceiling there is much higher IMO, he has every attribute necessary to reach the top of the game there.

In that role, he could be a few loan spells over the next few years away from challenging for a first team spot. He’s got a bit of a Ramos-like penchant for shithousery that could make him a candidate to lead the club into a new era of academy intergration.
Strange, I watched him last season and over the summer and he seemed to be going strength to strength. Has he regressed since?
 

Thiagoal

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I don't see him as a defender at all! Looks great as a deep playmaker in the Carrick mould! I think it's fair to say the U18's are collectively out of form at the moment but his class is still evident. Agree that Levitt has great potential though; great vision and passing range! Will be interesting how we go about integrating these kids. It seems they're going to get opportunities next season
 

AltiUn

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He’d make a fine defender or midfielder, he’s generally just a very good player. He’s been class in both positions when played there this season, there’s no harm trying him for either role in the future.