James Maddison

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devilish

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Better start Ole sack watch.
I don't want to sound as if I want him out but we all know that he won't be here unless he makes it to top 4. Certainly the club won't take the blame for it which makes Ole the obvious target.
 

Ikon

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If he doesn't make it to top 4 then he will most probably walk
Nah, don't think that would be very likely at all unless we have a run like the final 10 games of last season.
 

Rob Bowman

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I don't want to sound as if I want him out but we all know that he won't be here unless he makes it to top 4. Certainly the club won't take the blame for it which makes Ole the obvious target.
This would burn me.

Woodward signed Jose to a long term deal in Jan of 18. Then Woodward did not support Jose in the 2018 Summer window. We went thru transition this winter with no additions in the Winter window. Now here we are again with little support in this Summer's window.

Clearly at some point Woodward can NOT just blame the manager. He needs to own his (in)action. He is setting them up for failure.
 

devilish

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This would burn me.

Woodward signed Jose to a long term deal in Jan of 18. Then Woodward did not support Jose in the 2018 Summer window. We went thru transition this winter with no additions in the Winter window. Now here we are again with little support in this Summer's window.

Clearly at some point Woodward can NOT just blame the manager. He needs to own his (in)action. He is setting them up for failure.
The narrative is already building up nicely. Its pointless having scouts/DOF since Ole only trust British players who are overpriced + how can anyone say that the club hasn't support him when they brought him the world most expensive CB. Its BS (actually it tells half the story) of course, but rest assured that they will be used.

I've yet to meet owners doing the mea culpa. Sacking managers is cheaper especially rookie idealistic ones.
 

Isotope

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We don’t know if it’s on Ed or Glazer’s on how much United can spend.

If it’s Glazers, there’s not much Ed, or any new CEO/DOF can do.
 

Sp00ks11

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Maddison is my dream signing, especially when the inevitable of Pogba leaving happens. Think this boy is class and is only going to get better. Him and Sancho next summer would be :drool:

Still think we should have tried to get him this summer as his value is going to be eyewatering come the summer!
 

RedSky

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His 2019 stats are very impressive. One thing that has caught my eye which could be a problem is the number of shots he's taken.

53 shots, 12 on target, 2 goals.

That's pretty damn bad. But what does impress me is how creative he is. 60 key passes which is the highest in the premier league (Pogba, the highest United player on 34), 5 of them assists. Not bad at all.
 

Adam-Utd

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His 2019 stats are very impressive. One thing that has caught my eye which could be a problem is the number of shots he's taken.

53 shots, 12 on target, 2 goals.

That's pretty damn bad. But what does impress me is how creative he is. 60 key passes which is the highest in the premier league (Pogba, the highest United player on 34), 5 of them assists. Not bad at all.
That ratio sounds pretty poor, it depends what they deem a key pass.

You'd expect a key pass is a good goal scoring chance, but for 60 of them and only 5 assists? that doesn't add up.

I think it's because he takes all set pieces they deem those as a key pass.

Pogba had way more assists with half the key passes.
 

andersj

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His 2019 stats are very impressive. One thing that has caught my eye which could be a problem is the number of shots he's taken.

53 shots, 12 on target, 2 goals.

That's pretty damn bad. But what does impress me is how creative he is. 60 key passes which is the highest in the premier league (Pogba, the highest United player on 34), 5 of them assists. Not bad at all.
So he had to make 12 key passes to have an assist. Not too good. Indicate poor finishing or «low quality» key passes. According to understats he has an xA/KP of 0,08. It is not awful, but very low compared to someone like David Brooks who has an xA/KP of 0,2.
 

Maagge

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That ratio sounds pretty poor, it depends what they deem a key pass.

You'd expect a key pass is a good goal scoring chance, but for 60 of them and only 5 assists? that doesn't add up.

I think it's because he takes all set pieces they deem those as a key pass.

Pogba had way more assists with half the key passes.
I think they also count passes like the one Pogba slid through to AWB for him to put it on a plate for Greenwood (or was it Rashford?) during pre-season.
 

Adam-Utd

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I think they also count passes like the one Pogba slid through to AWB for him to put it on a plate for Greenwood (or was it Rashford?) during pre-season.
Yeah i'd agree with that. I guess you could say he is the "pre assister" then.

Either way Maddison is clearly a good creator just by watching. He's got fantastic technique and movement, he plays more like a Spaniard.
 

AgentP

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Maddison is my dream signing, especially when the inevitable of Pogba leaving happens. Think this boy is class and is only going to get better. Him and Sancho next summer would be :drool:

Still think we should have tried to get him this summer as his value is going to be eyewatering come the summer!
Yeah these two signings will take us up a level. We'll also need a replacement for Pogba to play in a 2-man midfield behind Maddison. Maybe Longstaff or Milinkovic Savic can play that role.
 

andersj

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That ratio sounds pretty poor, it depends what they deem a key pass.

You'd expect a key pass is a good goal scoring chance, but for 60 of them and only 5 assists? that doesn't add up.

I think it's because he takes all set pieces they deem those as a key pass.

Pogba had way more assists with half the key passes.
His xA/KP from open play is 0,09. David Brooks is at 0,19. Maddison has a lot of key passes and people notice it (due to it being a popular stat). Brooks on the other hand is a bit more low key.

(We could need both.)
 

Adam-Utd

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His xA/KP from open play is 0,09. David Brooks is at 0,19. Maddison has a lot of key passes and people notice it (due to it being a popular stat). Brooks on the other hand is a bit more low key.

(We could need both.)
Interesting, i'm not one for stats too much I prefer to use my eye.

How does that compare to the best in KDB, Pogba, Eriksen?
 

roonster09

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Interesting, i'm not one for stats too much I prefer to use my eye.

How does that compare to the best in KDB, Pogba, Eriksen?
Last season Pogba xA/KP from open play was 0.10. KdB's was 0.21. KdB played very less mins, so in 2017-18 it was 0.16.
 

giorno

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Key pass is the final pass before a shot

It's different from actual chances created
 

Ikon

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Maddison is my dream signing, especially when the inevitable of Pogba leaving happens. Think this boy is class and is only going to get better. Him and Sancho next summer would be :drool:

Still think we should have tried to get him this summer as his value is going to be eyewatering come the summer!
Imagine what his valuation will be if we try in January then..:rolleyes:
I do think that Maddison will be one of our major targets, unfortunately for us, I think he will also be in big demand from our rivals.
 

Lynty

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Should be our priority, even more so if Pogba leaves next year.
 

SATA

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Watch him first time proper against Chelsea. The guy can play and has a phenomenal workrate. Great ability to spot a defence splitting defence pass although he could have played Vardy in more often. I had an impression that he’s a lazy pansy but what i saw was the complete opposite. I hope Maguire has a word in his ear and that we are hopefully interested. I want him to play together with Pogba, not replacing him
 

Kush

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Key pass is the final pass before a shot

It's different from actual chances created
While that is true, Maddison still tops the table for chance created in 2019 at 49 with Fraser (41), Hazard (40), Moutinho (37), Eriksen (32) behind him. Only Hazard (88), Fraser (80) were ahead of him throughout 2018/19 season. Also, before anyone asks KDB created 92 chances in 2017/18 season.

Mind you, I'm still not a big fan of him given what he'd cost.
 

Devil may care

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I'm not one for stats as they too often lack context, you see a game and Sky put up the amount of attempts on goal and you realize how flimsy the margins are for what counts as an attempt on goal.

I go with what I've seen and I think he's class technically, as good as his foreign equivelants, his set-pieces are also good and he presses well. My concern is his final ball is erratic and he doesn't offer much goal threat. He's obviously a big step up from our current options but I'd try to get Havertz before giving Leicester £85M for him.
 

roonster09

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While that is true, Maddison still tops the table for chance created in 2019 at 49 with Fraser (41), Hazard (40), Moutinho (37), Eriksen (32) behind him. Only Hazard (88), Fraser (80) were ahead of him throughout 2018/19 season. Also, before anyone asks KDB created 92 chances in 2017/18 season.

Mind you, I'm still not a big fan of him given what he'd cost.
IIRC, key pass = Chance created.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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I'm not agreeing with Havertz being needed at all cost

I don't think he can adapt to playing as a CM, he's a number 10 and there's no need for a number 10 at UTD. Furthermore Pogba could offer everything he does if he was played higher on the pitch.
 

Classical Mechanic

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His xA/KP from open play is 0,09. David Brooks is at 0,19. Maddison has a lot of key passes and people notice it (due to it being a popular stat). Brooks on the other hand is a bit more low key.

(We could need both.)
Overall though he was still among the elite for big chances created with 13. He's still going to take set pieces whoever he plays for.

I think that Maddison has much more to his all round game too.

I'd still like to see a fairly significant improvement fro Maddison if we are going to go for him this summer though.
 

roonster09

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I dunno about the semantics, just using data provided by opta for the numbers.
You are just adding to what @giorno said. Instead of key passes, you used chance created. Pass before the shot is a keypass/chance created, no matter from which position. Likewise, any attacking player heading the ball from set piece is also chance created, no matter where the ball ends up.

Anyways apart from all this, I think Maddison is very good player and will play for big club.
 

ivaldo

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He’s surprised me. Watched him during his time at Norwich, and while I thought he was very good, I couldn’t see him playing for any team higher than an Everton. I think I’ve said as much previously. I’m still not 100% convinced. I’m not sure he’ll shine to the extent he does at Leicester at a bigger club with bigger ambitions.
 

romufc

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He’s surprised me. Watched him during his time at Norwich, and while I thought he was very good, I couldn’t see him playing for any team higher than an Everton. I think I’ve said as much previously. I’m still not 100% convinced. I’m not sure he’ll shine to the extent he does at Leicester at a bigger club with loftier ambitions.

If Pogba goes he fits the Ole profile of a player. Not only the profile, this lad can play a bit as well.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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and why would you want someone like that? They will do the same to you next time
From the stories I've heard about him he seems like a bit of a tool, and I personally wouldn't go for him.

Was just a statement, not a glowing referral.
 

Dorris

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and why would you want someone like that? They will do the same to you next time
You said all this in the Maguire thread and it's just as bizarre now. The likes of Maddison and Maguire are going to see United as the pinnacle of their career. The only 2 clubs that can poach players from us aren't going to be interested in them. You seem to be dragging United down to a level where these players see us as a stepping stone, which is absolute nonsense. Regardless and back to the overall point, I don't see any issue with a player agitating for a dream move when it could be their one opportunity of getting it.
 

King7Eric

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and why would you want someone like that? They will do the same to you next time
Do you think the likes of Real or Barca are gonna be interested in him after 5 years? That's the only scenario he could "do the same to us". I mean Liverpool didn't win anything for decades but even then top clubs in the PL couldn't really buy their players so even if you assume we don't win anything in the near future, it's not likely other PL clubs will be able to buy our players( which we don't wanna sell). So unless you think he's gonna become a global superstar, ala Beckham or Bale that Real or Barca want him, I think we'll be fine.
 

Sanche7

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So like Pool gutted Southampton, let’s get all of Leicester’s players. Slabhead done, Maddison, Chilwell, Ndidi, Tielemans and Demarai Grey next. The only problem is that it’s going to be way more expensive than buying players from Southampton. And knowing our luck, almost all of them will turn to utter shite the day we sign them
 

AltiUn

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So like Pool gutted Southampton, let’s get all of Leicester’s players. Slabhead done, Maddison, Chilwell, Ndidi, Tielemans and Demarai Grey next. The only problem is that it’s going to be way more expensive than buying players from Southampton. And knowing our luck, almost all of them will turn to utter shite the day we sign them
The feck do you want Demarai Grey for? :lol:
 

Jimmy Skitz

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Do you think the likes of Real or Barca are gonna be interested in him after 5 years? That's the only scenario he could "do the same to us". I mean Liverpool didn't win anything for decades but even then top clubs in the PL couldn't really buy their players so even if you assume we don't win anything in the near future, it's not likely other PL clubs will be able to buy our players( which we don't wanna sell). So unless you think he's gonna become a global superstar, ala Beckham or Bale that Real or Barca want him, I think we'll be fine.
you really think people still look at United the same way they did when Sir Alex were there, as soon as someone offers them more money, they would kick off, why would you want that? Why would you want someone proven to be an unprofessional disruptive influence in your squad?

Maguire went about it in a professional manner, I responded to someone saying Maddison would be someone who kicked off, why would you want someone who did that.


And its not just Barca and Real, its Juve, the Milan clubs if they get their acts together, Bayern, PSG, not forgetting the Chinese clubs and what they pay, there are plenty of clubs around that could unsettle a United player in that way
 
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