Thank God for that. I’ve been quite clear in my opinion. I’ve answered questions. You won’t.You've made a number of assumptions and have been quite disingenuous in your interactions with me and others in this thread.
You're doing the same thing with @Tel074 and you're at it again with that question. I said his nationality does come into it, as others have said and now you want to explain why in terms other than his nationality
I've also explained why I think it's happening earlier but you've ignored that too.
To be honest I've no interest in discussing the issue any further with you, even if it wasn't time to step away from the computer and go have dinner.
James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'
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In Scotland you can get called an English something.
I don't know where you come from or your background, but I recommend actually reading up much more on the problems in Northern Ireland before commenting. It's clear from your own commetns you see the British Army as an invading force (it isn't). That atrocities were regularly carried out by the British Army (they weren't). That the IRA were out to end oppression for catholics (oh boy, I have news for you).
The IRA are a terrorist criminal gang that regular tortured, killed and extorted from their own community. The location of innocent "dissapeared" has never been resolved (google Jean McConnville). The IRA worked in conjunction with other so called terrorist gangs on import and distribution of drugs. The IRA regularly targeted catholics who joined the police and army. None of this is secret. Google Peadar Heffron and google about the posters that were put up this year in Derry about him. This is still happening, google Lyra McKee shot dead in Derry in 2019.
Again you are speaking about stuff you have no clue about and are making yourself look stupid .
Northern Ireland fans hate him simply because he refused to play for them as does loads of Northern Ireland Catholics and do you know the reason why ??
Well that’s bigotry then.
Ok, Chelsea only abuse Irish people about their nationality. No others. We know that because Tel from the Internet was at a game once.
Many will be just like that. Many will rightly point out that he was happy to use Northern Ireland to his own end until it didn’t suit him anymore. And saying any catholic who says they’re comfortable playing for Northern Ireland is a liar is bang out of order and only deepens the bigotry.
Oh I have many times but never without good reason
I’d suggest you do some reading before coming out with that shite.
He was abused for not wearing it before he said anything. He tried to explain himself, still got abused and not just from the stands but in the media.
When he does or says something ill advised it is then used to justify all the abuse he gets.
You're not an Irish person living in the UK, you don't know what the experience is like.
95% of the time it is absolutely fine, but there is always that minority who are waiting for an opportunity to turn on you.
Your attitude that he should be quiet and know his place, that he brought it on himself, is part of the problem.
Sorry AGAIN you are chatting rubbish . Where has myself or anyone said that a Catholic playing for NI is a liar ? Seriously you are out of control on this thread . I asked a question which you haven't answered yet instead spouted a load of made up nonsense
Blimey,
Please do some research! The IRA are deemed a terrorist organisation by the British Government, the same Government that was at WAR with Ireland for years and years (operation Banner).
Now, war has two sides, one side is allowed to fight back from a foreign entity invading in a war, and that's the fundamental issue here.
The British army have also colluded with terrorist gangs in Ireland, does that make them a terrorist organisations too?
You've opened up a whole can of worms here mate
James McClean said it. You know, the guy we’re talking about. What question did you ask that I didn’t answer?
This is without doubt the biggest load of nonsense I've seen on Refcafe and I've read some nonsense on here . Telling people to read up on NI while then giving your opinion as fact . Follow your own advice
Agree with this 100 percent.
He's entitled to his viewpoint but because it doesn't sit well with the majority he has to be silent.
It smacks of double standards
If you are over the age of 18 I'm genuinely worried for you.
Do you even read people's replies ?
Yes. Have you read mine? You’re the one throwing hissy fits and not understanding what you’re talking about. Do you want to back down from your ‘nobody said that’ rant? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....le-playing-for-northern-ireland-28748007.html
you are comparing 2 different groups here, dissidents and PIRA. The Heffron and McKee are post ceasefire and were carried out by dissident republicans, a modern day criminal group masquerading as freedom fighters, and who by the way have attacked the leadership of sinn fein personally and via the media as recently as this yr. I know dissidents from within my area, a motely crew of drug dealers, hoods and the odd disgruntled republican dinosaur. One was actually shot in a punishment shooting for being a drug dealer by the PIRA during the troubles.Has he had a modern day road to damacus conversion, no he like many is hiding behind a name so he can tax drug dealers and use the group as a front to punish those who don't obey him.
This is a powder keg issue and both sides will have their own passionate opinion about it. Did people in NI live in a world where they were scared to go to the shops in case there was a bomb threat? Yes...I know because I lived it. Is it wrong for James McClean to say he would have been in the IRA in another life? Absolutely. He has been very provocative in the past.
Is it also true though that he has family and friends that suffered because of the British armies presence? Yes. Is it OK that he sees the poppy as a simple of the suffering? Also yes. If that’s how he feels, he has every right to feel that way.
There are two sides, and a lot of hurt and suffering on both sides. People lash out and speak from a place where they only had one experience and can’t lift themselves above it all to see the other side, the whole picture.
I saw great suffering at the hands of the IRA growing up and it was terrible. There was a real fear and watching the news was depressing. I had all the loyalists influence around me and could only see that side. Was this suffering acceptable? Not at all.
But as I have gotten older, I have read more about what many Irish Catholics went through too, and can now understand both sides. I think there is wrong and right on both sides, and a whole lot of hurt and anger in between.
McClean has made some mistakes, and I don’t think he is the best spokesperson for such a hot topic, especially when he has gone out of his way to provoke in the past, but it’s only through discussion that we will get past this, and right now, he seems to be the only one talking.
Is it also true though that he has family and friends that suffered because of the British armies presence? Yes. Is it OK that he sees the poppy as a simple of the suffering? Also yes. If that’s how he feels, he has every right to feel that way.
There are two sides, and a lot of hurt and suffering on both sides. People lash out and speak from a place where they only had one experience and can’t lift themselves above it all to see the other side, the whole picture.
I saw great suffering at the hands of the IRA growing up and it was terrible. There was a real fear and watching the news was depressing. I had all the loyalists influence around me and could only see that side. Was this suffering acceptable? Not at all.
But as I have gotten older, I have read more about what many Irish Catholics went through too, and can now understand both sides. I think there is wrong and right on both sides, and a whole lot of hurt and anger in between.
McClean has made some mistakes, and I don’t think he is the best spokesperson for such a hot topic, especially when he has gone out of his way to provoke in the past, but it’s only through discussion that we will get past this, and right now, he seems to be the only one talking.
To the people that keep bringing up the things that James McClean has done, that have gotten him in trouble.
Yes, he did those things. They were foolish and offensive and hurtful to some people. He shouldn't have done them.
And..he got in trouble for them, with his clubs, with the FA and certainly with the wider public.
Is it too much to ask that the things that have been done to him, the threats, the abuse and the villification of his character be treated at least as seriously?
Is it unreasonable to suggest, given the history of Irish people in the UK, that the reason that they haven't been treated as seriously is at least partly because he is Irish?
Yes, he did those things. They were foolish and offensive and hurtful to some people. He shouldn't have done them.
And..he got in trouble for them, with his clubs, with the FA and certainly with the wider public.
Is it too much to ask that the things that have been done to him, the threats, the abuse and the villification of his character be treated at least as seriously?
Is it unreasonable to suggest, given the history of Irish people in the UK, that the reason that they haven't been treated as seriously is at least partly because he is Irish?
No hissy fits here just pointing out you are on a subject you have zero knowledge about and it's showing .. You ignore everyone points and try to ram yours down our throats until you then suddenly jump unto something else .
Are you a NI Catholic?
I can tell every single NI Catholic playing for NI during the National Anthem yet you think McClean isn't right that they don't feel comfortable??
How would that be if you are correct and McClean is wrong
No hissy fits? You’re having a laugh. You’re going on ignore because your posts are overly aggressive idiots so don’t expect any further replies.
Plenty of catholics have played for Northern Ireland. His current manager was comfortable to play for and manage Northern Ireland. I don’t see how catholic’s not playing for Northern Ireland helps matters. I don’t particularly like Northern Ireland or some of their fans and there’s still plenty of bigots about. You won’t hear much sectarian singing mind you and if somebody can’t tolerate a national anthem it says more about them than anyone else for me. Though Northern Ireland should get their own anthem and improve things further.
If people were so uncomfortable they wouldn’t play. Goodbye.
At last some sort of reasoning and sense . It's a pity it took half the day and 5 years off my life reading what you wrote before hahaa
Jesus. And the worst part is you are telling others to educate themselves.
Neil Lennon couldn’t play for Northern Ireland because he was sent bullets in the post for being Celtic captain and told not to.
Agree with most of what you’re saying, but on the bolded, I’d like to think I’d have had the courage to join and fight and I’d like to think McClean would have too. But hope those days never return.
This post should lock this thread.
Sorry, im jumping in here a bit and the red mist is slightly boiling. Hopefully ive picked this up entirely wrong....
But are you basically saying your in support of the ira bombing in my home town, omagh? Because thats the type of fighting they employed in my liftime.
Or what ira do you wish you had the courage to join and fight? Because those days arent so long ago
I never said catholic’s have never been victims of abuse playing for Northern Ireland. But I think things have improved considerably. Other catholic’s in the same team didn’t receive that abuse.
I think (Hope) he’s talking about the 1916 Irish Republican Army that fought at the GPO to secure Irish Independence.
Because the IRA of the 70’s wasn’t very good at all did some horrific things.
Ah Christ no of course I’m not supporting that, it was a terrible day and should never have happened. (That wasn’t the Provo’s btw)
What I’m saying was if I was a young lad in Derry in the early 70’s and British soldiers had just murdered 13 innocents I’d like to think I’d have had the courage to fight back.
What the hell is this shite you're spouting.Thanks for clarifying that.
But its quite easy to see how mclean saying he would join the ira can be taken as him basically agreeing with their methods that killed 100s of innocents.
Im a northern ireland fan and I wouldn't care if the whole team was catholic like many.
There is that small minority though thatl never change
Ah of course chap, I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you about the shite that was done by both sides that can’t be condoned, lets hope we never go backt to those days.
Anyway feels like this has gone miles off topic.
That’s a whole can of worms I ain’t going to get into in this thread but feel free to create one on it.
Naw, it’s okay I don’t really like discussing it the deeper you get into it the more muddy the waters get. Both sides did terrible things.
Yea i think we should leave it all there.
We would never change each other minds on it anyway.
If my expectation is for people to not dress up as IRA then I make no excuse for that I’m afraid.
Again, he’s every right to do what he thinks is right for him. I have a right to expect him to behave himself in an acceptable manner, to the same standard I’d expect myself to be held. That’s just common sense, not me expecting him to be quiet.
I agree and that's why James needs to be careful while people from Derry and other areas can understand what he was saying people in the UK don't and they jump on him for it .
Fair enough mate, no worries at all. We've all been there.
As i said i'm not trying to compare them directly, its not my intention or place to say the abuse McClean receives is as bad as racism towards Black players. My only angle was that they are similar situations where players are being abused continuously. And the different reactions from some to those similar situations.
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