What youth did Fergie bring through since like 2006 when we started hitting arguably our best period under Fergie? Evans? Cleverley? Welbeck.. None of those were good enough in the end.
Jamie Carragher on Mourinho
- Thread starter Inigo Montoya
- Start date
Appointing managers like players is a lottery and the irony is if SAF had the same start as he did back then in the modern game, he'd have been sacked too. Sadly the world's a different place, and the one club footballer along with the decade of management will never return. Giggs would now be sold to Real and Scholes to Barca for 80 - 90m each. Maybe SAF would have moved on to manage Bayern or Real?
The world's turned a few times since SAF and we have to accept like Bayern et al, managers come in every 2-3 years and then pass the baton on......Jose is the perfect fit for now, no crystal ball for what happens in a couple of years. What I will say under him, we will attract the very best players.
The world's turned a few times since SAF and we have to accept like Bayern et al, managers come in every 2-3 years and then pass the baton on......Jose is the perfect fit for now, no crystal ball for what happens in a couple of years. What I will say under him, we will attract the very best players.
Ironically he would be the first in line to express his joy of having a trophy winning manager.
Yup, said the same shite at the start of this Chelsea reign about long term projects and blooding youth.
Then done the usual, played the old guys and imploded in the 3rd season with drama.
I can't see them becoming much better in the future either. Hopefully they will become O'Shea standard ie suited for a Sunderland type of club
We haven't been producing world class talent for many many years. I hoped we would get pep for that reason. We need someone who can shake the youth system up to its core
As an Arsenal fan, I would rather José get the job than Giggs. Sure, you might win a trophy or two in his years at the club but it would be hilarious to watch as I'm certain José at United will end in tears and that much is self-evident.. it's too combustible a situation not to. A demanding fanbase, a coach who respects nobody but himself and prefers to make himself feel more important than the club.
It would be a poor move for United in the long-term and one which could see the name of a great club dragged through the mud at the expense of José's ego. It's okay for a smaller club like Chelsea to accept this fate... but for United it would seem a little desperate.
As for Giggs, it would be a poor move in the short-term (potentially) but a good move in the long-term. One thing, as an Arsenal fan, that I do not want is a Man United man leading Man United through these more challenging times for your club. I want you to continue to employ poorly with managers who are distant from the club such as Moyes, Van Gaal and, indeed, Mourinho.
It's worth noting, again, that over both spells at Chelsea, Mourinho spent a staggering £471million on players. EDIT: And by the way, Carragher is a pundit who is supposed to give his opinion on these matters so pretending he's lying because he might have some deluded idea that his opinion will sway the United boardroom is ludicrous. What would be worse for Carragher than to say Mourinho will be a bad move and then watch as the man wins title after title for United? Of course he won't want that to happen.. United's fans will never live it down. If he says he thinks Mourinho is a bad choice, then he means it. It's not some kind of reverse psychology.
It would be a poor move for United in the long-term and one which could see the name of a great club dragged through the mud at the expense of José's ego. It's okay for a smaller club like Chelsea to accept this fate... but for United it would seem a little desperate.
As for Giggs, it would be a poor move in the short-term (potentially) but a good move in the long-term. One thing, as an Arsenal fan, that I do not want is a Man United man leading Man United through these more challenging times for your club. I want you to continue to employ poorly with managers who are distant from the club such as Moyes, Van Gaal and, indeed, Mourinho.
It's worth noting, again, that over both spells at Chelsea, Mourinho spent a staggering £471million on players. EDIT: And by the way, Carragher is a pundit who is supposed to give his opinion on these matters so pretending he's lying because he might have some deluded idea that his opinion will sway the United boardroom is ludicrous. What would be worse for Carragher than to say Mourinho will be a bad move and then watch as the man wins title after title for United? Of course he won't want that to happen.. United's fans will never live it down. If he says he thinks Mourinho is a bad choice, then he means it. It's not some kind of reverse psychology.
Last edited:
Giving players like McNair & Blackett 'a chance' > Winning trophies
As John McEnroe would say - you cannot be serious. Giggs has no fight in him to lead us through nothing. He shouldn't be short or long term - let him go and prove his worth elsewhere.
I don't want Jose either - but if it's a choice between him and Giggs it would be Jose all day until we can appoint someone else.
Do you think your bad experiences with Mourinho over the years have clouded your judgement?
I can only assume that's an attempted WUM? Unless you'd like to actively counteract my point.
I know that and people are using similar 'moral' arguments to say no to Mou. He's too controversial, he'll betray the traditions of the club, blah, blah, blah. All a load of garbage.
Unless we're going to turn Man Utd into some kind of cult, where only the pure are admitted, these daft reasons for rejecting Mou should be given short shrift.
Mou in, LVG out. Simple.
What makes you think Giggs would be a good long term choice? You say you don't want a 'Man United man' taking charge of United but in my opinion if I saw Liverpool appoint Gerrard or Chelsea appoint Terry I would think it would be ridiculous, stupid and hilarious.
Because Giggs knows what it takes to be associated with Man United, will have the backing of almost everyone influential within the club, will have a support network consisting not least of Alex Ferguson and would give United back their identity.
As for the Gerrard/Terry thing.. you act like Giggs hasn't been the assistant manager of United for around 2 years.. as well as interim manager at one point. It's a risk in the short-term.. but these kind of things can pay off. Look at Guardiola with Barcelona.
But please, by all means, opt for the circus that is Jose Mourinho. At a time when you need, more than anything, to steady the ship and establish a long-term basis and re-find what the principles of Man United are... you guys are clamouring for Jose Mourinho. I hope it happens.
How long has Bould been on Wenger's coaching staff, do you see him as a future Arsenal boss?
Happily take Jose. Jamie Carragher's crying should fall on deaf ears. Noticeable people are ignoring Henry saying Mou would be perfect for United.
FFS. When an Arsenal supporter is more informed about United's traditions than half our so called fans on this forum, you know we're in a bad way.
No.. but for some reason United seem to be pigeon holed into either Mourinho or Giggs. If I was your chairman I'd employ neither. You need someone to steady the ship.. a point that has been lost on your board (and fans) since 2013.
I agree with you. I really don't want Mourinho. After the defeat to Norwich I was favourable towards him coming, but since I've calmed down and reflected on the situation, there's no way I want the guy at this club. Giggs is also not the worst option we have. I think the timing of Gary Neville's appointment at Valencia is also good, since we'll probably be looking for a new manager at a time when Neville will be contemplating offers at the end of his contract (it ends at the end of the season), provided he's been successful of course. What I don't want us to do is panic and hire Mourinho just because Pep may well be on his way to our rivals.
So if Neville has a decent 6 months then he should get the Man United job...this obsession with the class of 92 needs to end
The issue is not the quality that is outside of your control. The issue is whether Fergie gave chances to youth players to see if they could step up to the senior level. He gave loads of youth products a chance. Other managers do not give youth a chance. Jose for instance has had quite a strong youth set up and totally ignored it.
What exactly does steadying the ship mean? To me steadying the ship would be reviving the seige mentality, making us competitive again and not spamming £250m for sweet F.A.
Just because Giggs is a United legend doesn't mean he's capable of what you think. Keano was more inspirational for us than Giggs, I wouldn't trust him as manager right now either. The cries for Giggs remind me of Scousers asking for Roy Evans to get back to the boot room. It's romanticism at its rawest.
In that Giggs documentary at the end of the Moyes error, when Giggs was discussing tactics he sounded clueless. 'I like Valencia's pace' and all that. Hopefully he's changed but if he hasn't what then? We watch Carlo, Pep and Mou change clubs again, and again end up with a novice who fails?
He could be a very good option, yes. I am following his work at Valencia, and his style would be ideal for us if he can make a success of himself over the next 6 months. he plays out from the back, presses high and shows some of the eye Van Gaal has had over his career for placing players in new positions: the full back who he's played as a winger and the midfielder he's turned into a defensive pivot. I am not writing him off at this point...
You notice that other top clubs have reacted to Guardiola's success by trying to appoint Guardiola rather than hoping to stumble upon the next untried manager who just happens to turn out to be brilliant? There's a reason for that. Guardiola is exceptional, the idea of appointing untested managers isn't.
The only top club that has really done that since is Barca themselves, largely because they have a coherent, well defined, institutional philosophy in place, one that has seen the current managers of Barca, Bayern, United, Southampton, Ajax and Southampton all pass through their doors over the last decade and a bit. That philosophy contrasts greatly with our supposed "United way" which is vague, scattershot and essentially based almost entirely on the methods of one exceptional individual rather than any sort of institutional structure.
We aren't Barca, so why pretend otherwise? Why not follow the example we set with SAF and appoint a manager who has already proven to have exceptional talent?
@sullydnl
Personally, I think hiring a manager that Chelsea have sacked twice who recently navigated them only 1 point clear of the relegation zone makes United look a bit poor to begin with. When you couple that with the fact that he is probably the most unstable, unpredictable and potentially long-term dangerous manager in the world... it's really not the right appointment for United right now. It's a shame to see so many United fans throwing their toys out of the pram because they've went 3 years without a trophy.
@#07
In my mind, steadying the ship means bringing in a manager who is going to first and foremost make reasonable and pragmatic decisions. (i.e the opposite of Van Gaal and Mourinho). So look for a calm figure who will help to build the team and prepare the way for a manager in the ilk of Neville or Giggs in a few years. As I've mentioned above.. Giggs wouldn't be the ideal candidate in my mind.. but he definitely carries much less risk (and much more potential reward) than Jose.
Personally, I think hiring a manager that Chelsea have sacked twice who recently navigated them only 1 point clear of the relegation zone makes United look a bit poor to begin with. When you couple that with the fact that he is probably the most unstable, unpredictable and potentially long-term dangerous manager in the world... it's really not the right appointment for United right now. It's a shame to see so many United fans throwing their toys out of the pram because they've went 3 years without a trophy.
@#07
In my mind, steadying the ship means bringing in a manager who is going to first and foremost make reasonable and pragmatic decisions. (i.e the opposite of Van Gaal and Mourinho). So look for a calm figure who will help to build the team and prepare the way for a manager in the ilk of Neville or Giggs in a few years. As I've mentioned above.. Giggs wouldn't be the ideal candidate in my mind.. but he definitely carries much less risk (and much more potential reward) than Jose.
Oh don't get me wrong, I have massive reservations about Mourinho too. He's terribly behaved, he burns through clubs and his approach to football is pretty awful. Not someone I want to see as Manchester United manager.
That doesn't mean hiring Giggs makes sense either though, or isn't an even worse idea than hiring Jose.
Fergie in his last few years barely even gave chances. Nowhere near what van Gaal is doing. Theres a reason why pogba left after all. You usually don't see a very successful team with a top quality squad giving chances to youth players unless there's an injury crisis or in the capital one cup. Mourinho obviously doesn't give chances as much as Fergie, but Fergie barely did in his latter years.
What does Jamie Carragher know about managers?
Benitez! Ha, ha!
Benitez! Ha, ha!
Arsenal fan wants us to hire Giggs instead of Mourinho. Shock!!
It's very easy for an Arsenal fan to talk of stability when Wenger has been in charge for nearly 20 years. When he goes they'll be dragged into the reality of the managerial merry-go-round like we have.
With the exception of Ferguson and Wenger you show me a top successful club that doesn't end up swapping its manager every few seasons. The punishment of failure from a financial point of view are too great now. I hate it myself but that's the reality.
One thing we can do however is stablise the structure of the club behind the scenes to make managers leaving less damaging. Getting Woodward away from the footballing side would be a good start.
With the exception of Ferguson and Wenger you show me a top successful club that doesn't end up swapping its manager every few seasons. The punishment of failure from a financial point of view are too great now. I hate it myself but that's the reality.
One thing we can do however is stablise the structure of the club behind the scenes to make managers leaving less damaging. Getting Woodward away from the footballing side would be a good start.
1) As soon as things would go south badly, Moyes-esque for example, people would turn on him. Everybody would, including board and he'd get the sack.
2) Or can end in a total disaster and set us back another couple of years, Moyes-alike. He was picked by Fergie to get some continuity in 'The United way' shit, worked out well.
3) Giggs doesn't guarantee steadying the ship any more than Mourinho. Neither short nor long term as he might as well be out of the door within 2 years.
Hasn't LVG won a trophy at every club his managed?
I think you could make an argument to say that Mourinho's reputation as a short-term manager is a little bit harsh. How many managers last for any significant amount of time at Real Madrid or Chelsea?
I suppose if he were to get the Utd job, that would be the acid test, because there should be no excuse for him not making a success of it if he is good enough
I suppose if he were to get the Utd job, that would be the acid test, because there should be no excuse for him not making a success of it if he is good enough