Jan Vertonghen

[charlenefan]

Just read he's technically out of contract this summer (albeit Spurs have the option to extend for a year like they do with Alderweireld). Would absolutely love him here, he would be 32 by the time next season starts

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Just read he's technically out of contract this summer (albeit Spurs have the option to extend for a year like they do with Alderweireld). Would absolutely love him here, he would be 32 by the time next season starts

He has a year option, its why there is no rush for a new contract. Although I think he will get one, hands off Verts, I hope he retires with us. Model pro, good injury record, one of my favorite ever Spurs players TBH.

 

[The Cat]

He quite nice if we steal him and Alderweireld at the same time.

Be even better if we can send Jones and Rojo the other way.

Cheers Spurs.

 

[izec]

He was pretty class at Ajax, but we didnt seem interested.

 

[Adisa]

Thought he was dodgy when he first arrived.

 

[Bwuk]

Was there not talk about him wanting to go back to Ajax one day - or am I just imagining that?

 

[RobinLFC]

Was there not talk about him wanting to go back to Ajax one day - or am I just imagining that?

He has repeatedly said Amsterdam feels more like home than Belgium, and his wife is also from Amsterdam if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't mean it'll happen though, lots of players say they'd like to end their career where they started it and it doesn't happen that often. At 32, I think he could play at top level for another two, maybe three years.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Thought he was dodgy when he first arrived.

It's true - Alderweireld was the the better CB,he's improved so much.

 

[Adisa]

It's true - Alderweireld was the the better CB,he's improved so much.

Painful how Spurs have found a stable pairing while we have struggled for the best part of 5 years.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Painful how Spurs have found a stable pairing while we have struggled for the best part of 5 years.

I know - hopefully we can get it right in the next window

 

[Red_toad]

Painful how Spurs have found a stable pairing while we have struggled for the best part of 5 years.

Odd anyone would say we've struggled with defensive records for the past 5 sessions, as we're usually pretty good on goals conceded. Plus at the end of the day, even if we'd have won only 1 trophy in the last 5 years, it'd have been 1 more than Spuds. Spurs for all their potential have won exactly nothing, find it odd how their fans are allowed to gloat on here, won feck all for over a decade now I believe?

Back on thread either of their experienced centre halfs would probably be a good addition for us. Not sure I'd overly happy signing Jan though, he'd probably end up slightly past it and still on big money in a very few seasons.

 

[Damien]

Goals conceded last five seasons United - Spurs

2013/14: 43 - 51
2014/15: 37 - 52
2015/16: 35 - 35
2016/17: 29 - 26
2017/18: 28 - 36
Total: 172 - 200

Goals scored last five seasons United - Spurs

2013/14: 64 - 55
2014/15: 62 - 58
2015/16: 49 - 69
2016/17: 54 - 86
2017/18: 68 - 74
Total: 297 - 342

Odd anyone would say we've struggled with defensive records for the past 5 sessions, as we're usually pretty good on goals conceded.

While true, we have had De Gea to thank for a large part of that. Compared to the rest of the top 6 goalkeepers he made way more saves. So far this season he's not done his usual heroics and we've struggled to keep a clean sheet. Having both Vertonghen and Alderweireld here would help hugely but I'd be pleased with just one of them at the moment.

 

[FootballHQ]

Very good CB.

Main surprising thing is he dosen't really score anymore. Pretty sure in his first season he scored 5-6 goals (remember him scoring 2 at Anfield) yet he went a couple of years without one until scoring recently.

 

[FootballHQ]

Goals conceded last five seasons United - Spurs

2013/14: 43 - 51
2014/15: 37 - 52
2015/16: 35 - 35
2016/17: 29 - 26
2017/18: 28 - 36
Total: 172 - 200

Goals scored last five seasons United - Spurs

2013/14: 64 - 55
2014/15: 62 - 58
2015/16: 49 - 69
2016/17: 54 - 86
2017/18: 68 - 74
Total: 297 - 342


While true, we have had De Gea to thank for a large part of that. Compared to the rest of the top 6 goalkeepers he made way more saves. So far this season he's not done his usual heroics and we've struggled to keep a clean sheet. Having both Vertonghen and Alderweireld here would help hugely but I'd be pleased with just one of them at the moment.

Said it before but De Gea saves 10 certain goals a season so imo that gives a flattering line to the defensive stats.

He tips shots round the post or over the bar that keepers like Cech or Lloris don't get to.

Good point though his level seems to have dipped last 4-5 months and suddenly teams he plays for are regularly conceding 2-3 goals a game.

 

[Bojan11]

So what’s going on with this guy? He’s not starting games.

 

[Seaman]

So what’s going on with this guy? He’s not starting games.

Refusing to sign new contract. He is clearly better than Sanchez so we will see how long they will continue this madness

 

[FootballHQ]

Wasn't there talk of bust up between him and Poch before first game, he thought he was fit and Pochettino didn't and seems to be issues now.

Sanchez ball watches too much. Look at his positioning for not just yesterday's goal but the one McGinn scored on opening day, poor.

 

[TheReligion]

Spurs have got themselves in a pickle with Vertonghen and Erikson haven't they?

 

[B20]

With the wages spurs pay I don't think they are really in a position to play this kind of hardball with their players just because they won't sign new contracts. They know they can get much better elsewhere.

In general I dislike this kind of move from a club. Can't blame players for looking out for themselves when clubs aren't acting in good faith towards their own players either.

I didn't particularly like seeing Emre Can leave for nothing to juve but he was within his rights not to extend. And the club did right in using him as they would any other player. When you sign a contract for a fixed period you expect both parties to honor it in good faith.

 

[Grande]

Painful how Spurs have found a stable pairing while we have struggled for the best part of 5 years.

Odd anyone would say we've struggled with defensive records for the past 5 sessions, as we're usually pretty good on goals conceded. Plus at the end of the day, even if we'd have won only 1 trophy in the last 5 years, it'd have been 1 more than Spuds. Spurs for all their potential have won exactly nothing, find it odd how their fans are allowed to gloat on here, won feck all for over a decade now I believe?

Back on thread either of their experienced centre halfs would probably be a good addition for us. Not sure I'd overly happy signing Jan though, he'd probably end up slightly past it and still on big money in a very few seasons.

As I read that sentence, it says that we have struggled for five years finding a stable CB pairing. I wholly agree with that view.

The most disappointing thing about the Palace game for me, was not that we struggled for goals when we should have two pens and play with one man more. We know we have a young and developping front line.

The disappointment was that we conceded two by softness at the heart of a defence where out strengt should be built from.

De Gea
Lindelöf Maguire

to me looks as good as anyone can muster in the league, but Saturday they were our Achilles’ heel. However, I still think they have the potential to be the best defensive lock around. The pairing will logically need some time to learn each others ways, and De Gea hopefully just needs to get that contract situation out of the way of his focus.

 

[B20]

De Gea
Lindelöf Maguire

to me looks as good as anyone can muster in the league.

They really are not

 

[Grande]

They really are not

There is science, there is qualified opinion, and there is just saying something in an authoritarian tone of voice.

Claiming our back three potentially looks as good as anyone in the league have, is different than saying they are, or even that they will be.

Alisson 8
Whoever 7 Van Dijk 9
has been the best functioning back three last season, though it’s important to remember they have been protected by three terriers in MF and Liverpool taking a more sensible approach than before in terms of balance. I’m still unconvinced of who their most stable CB pair is. On paper they are among the best, and they work in a good system, but I wouldn’t say the sum of the three is bigger than the parts yet.

Emerson 7
Stones 7 Laporte 8
City’s back three is well fitted to their playing style (a plus) and also orotected by Pep’s system and having ideal players for every position of the pitch. I would not be too worried if Arsenal turned up with these three at the back.

Lloris 8
Alderweireld 7? Verthongen 8
A year or two back, and this was the best back three in the league. Very good each on their own, playing in a good system, and complementing and cooperating to make the sum bigger than the parts. The system protected their relative weakness of speed and airial ability. A match made in heaven. Now I’m quite unsure how much they have declined individually, one year of contract situations seems to have eroded their safety in each others as well. Still very good, but clearly not the best.

Arsenal have big trouble in CB department, Chelsea’s are very raw.

De Gea 9
Lindelöf 7 Maguire 8
is on paper as good as Liverpool individually, if we accept De Gea’s current blip as form and not actual level. Lindelöf was probably our best player last year, yet is still the weak point in that trio. However, Lindelöf has previously been at his best when partnered with a confident, good in the air, intelligent foil (him and Granqvist looked like world beaters for Sweden in the last WC). Lindelöf’s relative weaknesses are airial duel strength. De Gea’s is command of the box Maguire complements them both in that regard. Maguire/Lindelöf’s combined weakness is speed, mitigated by an in form De Gea being the best in the world at closing down through-on-goals and shots. They are all in a good age, all are intelligent players with some leadership qualities, so I think there is a very good chance that they may develop into more than the sum of their parts. As for now, Maguire is the cog of that wheel and new to both the others, so that will obviously take time. Wether I’m right remaind to see, but I think you need to put up a more convincing argument to say it’s out of the question.

 

[Ekeke]

There is science, there is qualified opinion, and there is just saying something in an authoritarian tone of voice.

Claiming our back three potentially looks as good as anyone in the league have, is different than saying they are, or even that they will be.

Alisson 8
Whoever 7 Van Dijk 9
has been the best functioning back three last season, though it’s important to remember they have been protected by three terriers in MF and Liverpool taking a more sensible approach than before in terms of balance. I’m still unconvinced of who their most stable CB pair is. On paper they are among the best, and they work in a good system, but I wouldn’t say the sum of the three is bigger than the parts yet.

Emerson 7
Stones 7 Laporte 8
City’s back three is well fitted to their playing style (a plus) and also orotected by Pep’s system and having ideal players for every position of the pitch. I would not be too worried if Arsenal turned up with these three at the back.

Lloris 8
Alderweireld 7? Verthongen 8
A year or two back, and this was the best back three in the league. Very good each on their own, playing in a good system, and complementing and cooperating to make the sum bigger than the parts. The system protected their relative weakness of speed and airial ability. A match made in heaven. Now I’m quite unsure how much they have declined individually, one year of contract situations seems to have eroded their safety in each others as well. Still very good, but clearly not the best.

Arsenal have big trouble in CB department, Chelsea’s are very raw.

De Gea 9
Lindelöf 7 Maguire 8
is on paper as good as Liverpool individually, if we accept De Gea’s current blip as form and not actual level. Lindelöf was probably our best player last year, yet is still the weak point in that trio. However, Lindelöf has previously been at his best when partnered with a confident, good in the air, intelligent foil (him and Granqvist looked like world beaters for Sweden in the last WC). Lindelöf’s relative weaknesses are airial duel strength. De Gea’s is command of the box Maguire complements them both in that regard. Maguire/Lindelöf’s combined weakness is speed, mitigated by an in form De Gea being the best in the world at closing down through-on-goals and shots. They are all in a good age, all are intelligent players with some leadership qualities, so I think there is a very good chance that they may develop into more than the sum of their parts. As for now, Maguire is the cog of that wheel and new to both the others, so that will obviously take time. Wether I’m right remaind to see, but I think you need to put up a more convincing argument to say it’s out of the question.

Lindelof is a 6

 

[arthurka]

They really are not

Absolutely they really aren´t.

There is science, there is qualified opinion, and there is just saying something in an authoritarian tone of voice.

Claiming our back three potentially looks as good as anyone in the league have, is different than saying they are, or even that they will be.

Alisson 8
Whoever 7 Van Dijk 9
has been the best functioning back three last season, though it’s important to remember they have been protected by three terriers in MF and Liverpool taking a more sensible approach than before in terms of balance. I’m still unconvinced of who their most stable CB pair is. On paper they are among the best, and they work in a good system, but I wouldn’t say the sum of the three is bigger than the parts yet.

Emerson 7
Stones 7 Laporte 8
City’s back three is well fitted to their playing style (a plus) and also orotected by Pep’s system and having ideal players for every position of the pitch. I would not be too worried if Arsenal turned up with these three at the back.

Lloris 8
Alderweireld 7? Verthongen 8
A year or two back, and this was the best back three in the league. Very good each on their own, playing in a good system, and complementing and cooperating to make the sum bigger than the parts. The system protected their relative weakness of speed and airial ability. A match made in heaven. Now I’m quite unsure how much they have declined individually, one year of contract situations seems to have eroded their safety in each others as well. Still very good, but clearly not the best.

Arsenal have big trouble in CB department, Chelsea’s are very raw.

De Gea 9
Lindelöf 7 Maguire 8
is on paper as good as Liverpool individually, if we accept De Gea’s current blip as form and not actual level. Lindelöf was probably our best player last year, yet is still the weak point in that trio. However, Lindelöf has previously been at his best when partnered with a confident, good in the air, intelligent foil (him and Granqvist looked like world beaters for Sweden in the last WC). Lindelöf’s relative weaknesses are airial duel strength. De Gea’s is command of the box Maguire complements them both in that regard. Maguire/Lindelöf’s combined weakness is speed, mitigated by an in form De Gea being the best in the world at closing down through-on-goals and shots. They are all in a good age, all are intelligent players with some leadership qualities, so I think there is a very good chance that they may develop into more than the sum of their parts. As for now, Maguire is the cog of that wheel and new to both the others, so that will obviously take time. Wether I’m right remaind to see, but I think you need to put up a more convincing argument to say it’s out of the question.

Lindelöf isn´t a 7 he is a seven on his best days but normally between 5-6.
DDG current level is a 6 because his "blip" has been ongoing for a year now.

 

[roonster09]

Refusing to sign new contract. He is clearly better than Sanchez so we will see how long they will continue this madness

If that's the case then Vertonghen, Toby and Eriksen might leave on free transfer. That's a huge blow for Spurs. Instead of improving their team, they will have to replace them and it's hard to find players as good as them.

 

[Ødegaard]

Spurs have got themselves in a pickle with Vertonghen and Erikson haven't they?

And Alderweireld unless I've missed a extention.

 

[B20]

There is science, there is qualified opinion, and there is just saying something in an authoritarian tone of voice.

Claiming our back three potentially looks as good as anyone in the league have, is different than saying they are, or even that they will be.

Alisson 8
Whoever 7 Van Dijk 9
has been the best functioning back three last season, though it’s important to remember they have been protected by three terriers in MF and Liverpool taking a more sensible approach than before in terms of balance. I’m still unconvinced of who their most stable CB pair is. On paper they are among the best, and they work in a good system, but I wouldn’t say the sum of the three is bigger than the parts yet.

Emerson 7
Stones 7 Laporte 8
City’s back three is well fitted to their playing style (a plus) and also orotected by Pep’s system and having ideal players for every position of the pitch. I would not be too worried if Arsenal turned up with these three at the back.

Lloris 8
Alderweireld 7? Verthongen 8
A year or two back, and this was the best back three in the league. Very good each on their own, playing in a good system, and complementing and cooperating to make the sum bigger than the parts. The system protected their relative weakness of speed and airial ability. A match made in heaven. Now I’m quite unsure how much they have declined individually, one year of contract situations seems to have eroded their safety in each others as well. Still very good, but clearly not the best.

Arsenal have big trouble in CB department, Chelsea’s are very raw.

De Gea 9
Lindelöf 7 Maguire 8
is on paper as good as Liverpool individually, if we accept De Gea’s current blip as form and not actual level. Lindelöf was probably our best player last year, yet is still the weak point in that trio. However, Lindelöf has previously been at his best when partnered with a confident, good in the air, intelligent foil (him and Granqvist looked like world beaters for Sweden in the last WC). Lindelöf’s relative weaknesses are airial duel strength. De Gea’s is command of the box Maguire complements them both in that regard. Maguire/Lindelöf’s combined weakness is speed, mitigated by an in form De Gea being the best in the world at closing down through-on-goals and shots. They are all in a good age, all are intelligent players with some leadership qualities, so I think there is a very good chance that they may develop into more than the sum of their parts. As for now, Maguire is the cog of that wheel and new to both the others, so that will obviously take time. Wether I’m right remaind to see, but I think you need to put up a more convincing argument to say it’s out of the question.

Some statements are self evident enough to not require much argument.

Lindelof wouldn't make the bench at either of Liverpool or City. Maguire is not in the same league as Laporte, let alone van dijk. I don't think he's even shown himself better than gomez was last season before his injury or Matip once he settled in. They are all three in the category of "good enough to play alongside a better partner for a top side". That you paid 80m for him isn't going to elevate him all of a sudden.

What you're doing here is no different than the Liverpool fans who used to think Sktrel and Agger were just as good as Ferdinand and Vidic.

Except for Lindelof being worse than those too.

 

[Random Task]

And Alderweireld unless I've missed a extention.

Yep, Alderweirdeld, Vertonghen and Eriksen are all out of contract next summer (July 1st). Other clubs can begin talking to them January 1st.

Spurs need to get their house in order sharpish.

 

[TheReligion]

Some statements are self evident enough to not require much argument.

Lindelof wouldn't make the bench at either of Liverpool or City. Maguire is not in the same league as Laporte, let alone van dijk. I don't think he's even shown himself better than gomez was last season before his injury or Matip once he settled in. They are all three in the category of "good enough to play alongside a better partner for a top side". That you paid 80m for him isn't going to elevate him all of a sudden.

What you're doing here is no different than the Liverpool fans who used to think Sktrel and Agger were just as good as Ferdinand and Vidic.

Except for Lindelof being worse than those too.

Sorry but that's just nonsense

 

[B20]

Sorry but that's just nonsense

Gomez was astonishingly good in the first half of last season. He was actually giving van dijk a run for his money in terms of looking like a rolls Royce defender, which shouldn't be possible.

Matip took a while to settle in, but his level after that was really high. Played a big part in our campaign.

I am not calling either world class, though gomez has the potential for it and Matip probably over performed in the second half of last season. I am just saying Maguire isn't either. And unlike gomez, I am not sure he has the potential for it either. He's a good player, good enough to play in a title challenging side. But he should be playing next to a better player than himself for the defence to be top notch.

 

[charlenefan]

Gomez was astonishingly good in the first half of last season. He was actually giving van dijk a run for his money in terms of looking like a rolls Royce defender, which shouldn't be possible.

Matip took a while to settle in, but his level after that was really high. Played a big part in our campaign.

I am not calling either world class, though gomez has the potential for it and Matip probably over performed in the second half of last season. I am just saying Maguire isn't either. And unlike gomez, I am not sure he has the potential for it either. He's a good player, good enough to play in a title challenging side. But he should be playing next to a better player than himself for the defence to be top notch.

Maguire is 1000% a better CB than both Gomez and Matip

 

[B20]

Maguire is 1000% a better CB than both Gomez and Matip

He's got a 1000% bigger head, sure. But paying 80m and then looking better than your other centrebacks doesn't propel him higher than what he was six months ago - one of the better centrebacks in the league.

 

[Grande]

Lindelof is a 6

Thanks for the deep analysis.

Absolutely they really aren´t.



Lindelöf isn´t a 7 he is a seven on his best days but normally between 5-6.
DDG current level is a 6 because his "blip" has been ongoing for a year now.

We’ll disagree on Lindelöf, as in my view he has been playing at a very good level since and including the World Cup last summer. He was also chosen by many as our best player last season, and unless one is a drama queen, it would indeed be very strange not to acknowledge that the best couple of players at a sixth place team in the PL has to have been playing pretty well, pretty consistently. Good enough to be rated on a similar level to Matip/Gomes, Stones and last year’s version of Alderweireld.

One may be a drama queen indeed if the world’s almost unanimously best keeper the last few years is viewed as a level below on a constant basis, because he had a bad WC in July 18 and a series of bad form in March to May 19. And let in a soft goal on Saturday. If you think a 28 year old keeper has simply ‘lost it’ over night and dropped down several rungs of the ladder, you’re entitled to the opinion. I dont find it likely, though.

 

[TheReligion]

Gomez was astonishingly good in the first half of last season. He was actually giving van dijk a run for his money in terms of looking like a rolls Royce defender, which shouldn't be possible.

Matip took a while to settle in, but his level after that was really high. Played a big part in our campaign.

I am not calling either world class, though gomez has the potential for it and Matip probably over performed in the second half of last season. I am just saying Maguire isn't either. And unlike gomez, I am not sure he has the potential for it either. He's a good player, good enough to play in a title challenging side. But he should be playing next to a better player than himself for the defence to be top notch.

Astonishingly good is sensationalist for Gomez. He's no where near van Dijk nor has he been close.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion on Maguire although you're in a very very small minority from what I can gather. Even the likes of footballing genius Pep, and notorious ABU Graeme Souness, rate Maguire highly. He's proven it in the PL and on the international stage at the top level.

 

[TheReligion]

He's got a 1000% bigger head, sure. But paying 80m and then looking better than your other centrebacks doesn't propel him higher than what he was six months ago - one of the better centrebacks in the league.

And no one seems to have mentioned the price tag other than you. It's irrelevant?

 

[B20]

Astonishingly good is sensationalist for Gomez. He's no where near van Dijk nor has he been close.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion on Maguire although you're in a very very small minority from what I can gather. Even the likes of footballing genius Pep, and notorious ABU Graeme Souness, rate Maguire highly. He's proven it in the PL and on the international stage at the top level.

I do rate him highly. I also think he would have started for City if they had gone for him. Mostly because I don't really rate Stones as a defender.

Don't see him as world class or likely to become it.

 

[JamesO]

If you think a 28 year old keeper has simply ‘lost it’ over night and dropped down several rungs of the ladder, you’re entitled to the opinion. I dont find it likely, though.

It happened to Pepe Reina around the same age so it is possible. Came out of nowhere as well, just like what is currently ongoing with De Gea.

Whether it's a permanent start of his decline remains to be seen, but the longer it goes on, and it's been for a good while now, the more likely it is.

 

[Ekeke]

Thanks for the deep analysis.

No problem. Thats all it takes to make your suggestion absurd.

 

[Eternitiy]

There is science, there is qualified opinion, and there is just saying something in an authoritarian tone of voice.

Claiming our back three potentially looks as good as anyone in the league have, is different than saying they are, or even that they will be.

Alisson 8
Whoever 7 Van Dijk 9
has been the best functioning back three last season, though it’s important to remember they have been protected by three terriers in MF and Liverpool taking a more sensible approach than before in terms of balance. I’m still unconvinced of who their most stable CB pair is. On paper they are among the best, and they work in a good system, but I wouldn’t say the sum of the three is bigger than the parts yet.

Emerson 7
Stones 7 Laporte 8
City’s back three is well fitted to their playing style (a plus) and also orotected by Pep’s system and having ideal players for every position of the pitch. I would not be too worried if Arsenal turned up with these three at the back.

Lloris 8
Alderweireld 7? Verthongen 8
A year or two back, and this was the best back three in the league. Very good each on their own, playing in a good system, and complementing and cooperating to make the sum bigger than the parts. The system protected their relative weakness of speed and airial ability. A match made in heaven. Now I’m quite unsure how much they have declined individually, one year of contract situations seems to have eroded their safety in each others as well. Still very good, but clearly not the best.

Arsenal have big trouble in CB department, Chelsea’s are very raw.

De Gea 9
Lindelöf 7 Maguire 8
is on paper as good as Liverpool individually, if we accept De Gea’s current blip as form and not actual level. Lindelöf was probably our best player last year, yet is still the weak point in that trio. However, Lindelöf has previously been at his best when partnered with a confident, good in the air, intelligent foil (him and Granqvist looked like world beaters for Sweden in the last WC). Lindelöf’s relative weaknesses are airial duel strength. De Gea’s is command of the box Maguire complements them both in that regard. Maguire/Lindelöf’s combined weakness is speed, mitigated by an in form De Gea being the best in the world at closing down through-on-goals and shots. They are all in a good age, all are intelligent players with some leadership qualities, so I think there is a very good chance that they may develop into more than the sum of their parts. As for now, Maguire is the cog of that wheel and new to both the others, so that will obviously take time. Wether I’m right remaind to see, but I think you need to put up a more convincing argument to say it’s out of the question.

I'm sorry, but to claim de Gea is going through just a 'blip' is disingenuous. I've been one of his biggest supporters since he came to the club in 2011, but he's sadly declined to a worrying extent over the past year. His errors have been directly responsible for numerous dropped points. He's still young for a goalkeeper, but he's also been playing at a very high level since a very young age (similar to Casillas). It looks like he is declining earlier than we would have anticipated just like Casillas did as well.

 

[AltiUn]

Thanks for the deep analysis.

To be fair if you want to read his in depth analysis on why he thinks Lindelof's rubbish you should check his dissertations in the Smalling and Lindelof threads.