Could well be, I think those smaller/lesser known leagues are really where the 'data' side will come in + Vivell's background was in this area. Major European leagues I would be surprised if United (and every other PL club) doesn't have huge lists of targets from teenager upwards and strong views already on who they like/don't like.
Jason Wilcox - Director of Football
- Thread starter reddevilchennai
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to discuss disappointed FA Cup exit at the hands of Brighton - confirming our shortest season in over 100 years. They also discuss the news that Michael Carrick is set to be United's manager until the end of the season.
There's been numerous different stories about why he was fired. Most likely it was a combination of a few of them, rather than just one specific thing.
I’m starting to wonder whether him and Berrada are trojan horses sent to us by City. Hiring this manager who is a charlatan parading as some sort of mad scientist genius is going to end up doing serious long term damage to us. Even against a bunch of Malaysian cab drivers, it is clear that his nonsense methods are a terrible idea that sub-optimises almost every player in our squad, yet apparently - this is the ‘clear understanding of how to play football’ that out manager speaks of. We’ve stooped to such a tragic level, and we seem to actively be trying to make football matches more difficult to win every week now.
Can you be prudent and show ambition when it comes to transfers? Seems somewhat of an oxymoron to me!
How so? One can be ambitious in the market without having to make reckless moves.
Well of course prudent doesn’t mean being tight
So tight... spend £62m on Cunha.
Can't see how the Wilcox role will work out long term personally. His background was coaching youth players at City and being DOF at Soton.
In his prior roles he's been good at identifying young players with room to grow, hasn't he?
His background doesn't exactly scream "Man United Sporting Director" or DOF to me. Suspect he was dragged along by Berrada and soon began butting heads with Ashworth, who would've been the odd man out if he was Berrada's guy all along.
He isn't Manutd's DoF though... he is technical director.
Still only his second technical director job, and first for a club in a top division
He's the Sporting Director which is more or less a DOF in that they have very similar responsibilities.
That's fair. For the size of the task at hand, it probably would make more sense to have an experienced DOF leading things.
Hopefully Berrada, having previously worked closely with him, will have a good idea of his strengths and capabilities vs areas where Vivell and the other leaders will have to plug in.
Deco became Barca’s sporting director with no experience. Peter Czech was Chelsea sporting director with no experience. It happens all the time
Both had connections to the clubs. I just don't see it with Wilcox. His participation seems more as a function of working under Berrada because of a pre-existing relationship rather than Wilcox earning the job because he did such a great job elsewhere.
Ratcliffe did say he has one of the best eyes in football...
So he doesn’t need to wear glasses at all? Glad that we can cut out his glasses cost.
He's technical director still right? Ashworth was sporting director and wasn't replaced.
Yeah that's the annoying part
Yes but in the meantime, it sounds like Ashworth's responsibilities have been absorbed by him and Vivell.
At this point Vivell is DOF / recruitment lead. All the scouts report into him and so do the data people (Sansoni) AFAIK. Wilcox also reports up to him.
My understanding of Wilcox's role is to basically a translator between the coach and the recruitment / management. Observe Amorim's tactics, training sessions, make clear role profiles for what's missing where and hand that off to Vivell so he can go find the right player.
Wilcox has since also assumed Ashworth’s role after the latter was let go.
To me everything coming out of the club over the last few months has been preparing the fans to accept mediocrity.
We've had Amorim saying constantly that we'll continue to suffer, his latest rambles saying we won't be able to do much in the transfer market, we've got to work with a smaller squad and make it work.
Now Wilcox, Berrada, alongside Amorim are sort of suggesting that this is going to be a very tight summer budget, which basically means standing still at best in this day and age.
It just fills me with a sense that any improvement on 15th is to be celebrated. The bar has been set incredibly low, and will continue to be.
I don't disagree, but the reality is that our finances are fecked at the moment, so prudence in the transfer market really is key. We have to start recruiting more intelligently.
His background as a director of football does not scream director of football to you?
You are spot on. It is a bit of a mess.
Director of football for a few months at Southampton. Doesn't scream man united director of football to me no. Maybe explain why it does to you
Parts of Ashworth's role have been taken up by Wilcox, Berrada and Vivell. He has not replaced him as sporting director.
You’re right, we should have held out for someone with decades of elite experience in the role. Just like all the other major clubs who definitely don't promote promising talent or poach from smaller teams. No sir.
The prevailing view on the forum here has been that we should appoint an experienced and successful director of football. Fair enough if you think otherwise.
Chris Wheeler reported that Wilcox had assumed Ashworth’s role and there was apparently an email was sent to staff confirming it.
Wilcox was subsequently the lead in the Diego Leon negotiations at the time. Vivell has also taken on more responsibilities but Wilcox is the lead on all scouting and recruitment. By being technical director and head of football operations, he is the defacto DOF at United (although we can debate the semantics of the term).
Vivell reports to Wilcox; and Matt Hargreaves and Wilcox report to Berrada.
All based on reporting by Ornstein and Wheeler.
From where we are, that’s the shortest route back to the top. Not sure people are prepared for the pain that comes with it though.
I don't think most DoF are really that hands on in terms of going to find players themselves, they are the top of the funnel - Wilcox's expertise is in academy development/knowing who is rated coming through the youth ranks as that's where his network is - I would bet money he is more of a yes/no at the top of the scouting/data pillar which is led by Vivell (who was a scout).
People get a bit wrapped up in titles, but the reality is very few DoF's are out there spotting talent from every bit of information I have seen, it's more about relationships with other clubs, other scouts and getting heads up from agents etc. Some of them don't even do that i.e. Ashworth who was more of an ops guy at Brighton but had the title DoF. The value we are more interested in as fans (at least I am) is talent spotting, which is via data and on the ground with scouts, Vivell leads this effort and then Wilcox sits above him. At least that's my take looking at the info that is out there.
I really do hope Vivell, Wilcox and Berrada know what they're doing. I'm behind Amorim, but of course there are doubts. And if they recruit players that are exclusively suited to his 3421 (in theory 343) at this incredibly sensitive point, we better hope he's a genius. He does seem a bit wilted in the last couple of weeks and all the press engagement takes its toll, less charisma, more shakiness. I think his being too heart on sleeve might not be so ideal for such a high-pressured position, as we're seeing with how he played that Garnacho part and obviously some points of the season here and there where he had some faux pas.
Seems we are focusing on low to mid 20s in terms of age, we're obviously not shopping at the top tier, so if we've learned something we do not give players 200K, let alone 250K or more. I read that Cunha is getting 200K, surely they can keep the base wage lower and incentivise good performances.
I think it's realistic, if they are highly competent, to get all the top earners bar Mount out this summer. So we could start next season with top wages of 200K, which reflect better the actual status of the team.
Seems we are focusing on low to mid 20s in terms of age, we're obviously not shopping at the top tier, so if we've learned something we do not give players 200K, let alone 250K or more. I read that Cunha is getting 200K, surely they can keep the base wage lower and incentivise good performances.
I think it's realistic, if they are highly competent, to get all the top earners bar Mount out this summer. So we could start next season with top wages of 200K, which reflect better the actual status of the team.
So far the performance of the ineos regime is indistinguishable from sabotage.
Other than dedicated WBs, none of the players we buy wouldn’t be usable in other formations.
That's a big "other than", whilst not the complete story either. If we sell Bruno and replace him with another #10 who cannot play central midfield nor on the wing, that would also be a concern.
The supposed "game model" has never been fleshed out publicly.