Exactly. There's no magic wand someone can wave to force someone to take our overpaid cast offs. "we'll wait until the end of the window when you're desperate, thanks"
Jason Wilcox - Director of Football
- Thread starter reddevilchennai
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Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) give their end of season awards out! They celebrate the best players, goals and moments of the season (there were some, honestly) and also give out awards for the worst and most disappointing players/moments of the season.
They then discuss all the latest transfer rumours and get into the potential ins and outs this summer at Old Trafford.
Also... alot of it has to do with our fans too... we put players on a pedestal which they don't belong.
Garnacho is hyped by fans, apart from United fans, no one rates him, shown by his lack of playing time for his national team and his limited interest.
There has to be a demand for a player... without that you cannot sell them.
This is the new "we need to wait for the NYSE to open"
Indeed. Lots of players can be added to that list. Remember Pepe at Arsenal (club record signing).
Yes. There’s going to be a lot of frustrations from teenagers in their parents basements tomorrow when literally nothing happens at any club…
Most of the other major clubs are at the club World Cup too. There's a domino effect in the market. Wolves Brentford Leverkusen Juve and Napoli are all enquiring around. Chelsea and Liverpool are making a few moves. There will be offers and transfers that suprise us as the window goes on. I hate this loan culture as much as anybody but it's here to stay when you overpay and only the very top clubs or Saudi money can afford to help you fix your mistakes
Only 8 European clubs, and none of the ones where we usually do our shopping from
Knock on effect usually happens from the top down.
Yeah that frustrates the life out of me. Fans saying be patient every single summer. We needed our business done early so Ruben would have a proper pre season to hopefully hit the ground running but we're due back to training with only 1 signing and no sales so far
Totally correct. Just put yourself in the eventual interested club's shoes, that wants to buy Sancho, Rashford, Antony, hell, even Garnacho. The whole world is aware that United does not count on them, period. They are going to wait until United gets desperate towards the end of the transfer period, and starts accepting all kinds of bad deals, similar to the one of Sancho, with a 5 million return clause. if we forget about the context of the situation, yeah, people can expect from Wilcox to turn water into wine, with players who have such a bad reputation, again, for clarification purposes, Sancho, Rashford, and Garnacho, and make north of 100 million from these 3 sales alone.
It wasn't Wilcox who handed these mammoth contracts, which are the sole reason why we are having such a hard time moving Rashford and Sancho. They are probably in the top 10 best paid PL players. It's so easy to say, well, you figure it out, you make millions.
Chelsea has a similar situation with Sterling, and he is still at Chelsea, even though they have a reputation for selling well.
The only 2 sellable assets we have, that I don't expect to have such issues are Antony(I expect Betis to try to lowball us) and Garnacho, if we bring the fee down to 45-50m. I doubt anyone will offer 70 million for him.
I am absolutely shocked with his job so far. We don't have striker, we badly need a striker and he prioritise not one, but two no10s instead.
We obviously decided to pass on top striker targets and as things stand, we will start season without new striker or with some old fre agent like DLC or Vardy.
And we start with Arsenal, City and Celski in first 6 games. Wtf are we doing this summer?
We obviously decided to pass on top striker targets and as things stand, we will start season without new striker or with some old fre agent like DLC or Vardy.
And we start with Arsenal, City and Celski in first 6 games. Wtf are we doing this summer?
Really wish I knew
Prioritising two 10's when we already have Bruno, Amad, Mount and Cunha at the club, is really quite inexplainable. Wilcox and Amorim will be severly judged for it if we don't have a top striker at the end of the summer and if it hampers our progress.
Are we “passing” on top strikers, or can we simply not afford them?
We really know very little detail about what happens.
What do you think he should have achieved by 09 July, and knowing about the restrictions we have at this current time?
Restrictions? There is narrative like we have 20-30 mil budget. As things stand our budget is 120 mil plus (part of) sales. That is pretty good budget.
In month and a half he managed to buy one player (thanks to release clause) and sell nobody. Well, literally you or me as DoF's could have done that.
I wonder if we're planning to use Cunha or Mbueomo almost as a false 9, hence why a striker isn't top of their list.
We clearly have restrictions on terms of PSR and that we want/ need to sell players.
I don’t doubt that it’s frustrating - but the reality of how the transfer market works, is that most business gets done at the end of the window - and transfers are dependent on others going through.
£120m is still a budget with limitations, meaning we need to wait - it’s not the position we want to be in. But we really have to wait until the end of the window to judge. Unfortunately it’s the clubs that don’t have restrictions and do not have substantial rebuilds that can go out and get their (smaller number) of targets early.
You seem be on negative side for days now. may be a self retrospection will help.
We aren't passing any strikers. Tell me a striker who badly wants to join but we aren't moving ?
Mbeumo clearly wants to join, can score goals , PL proven and will help us to improve the goals tally. So why dont you take a break and come back when we start the season ? If the condition doesn't improve, I will be the first one with you to blame this guy.
I just hope they paint a fair picture before the start of the season. If indeed they can't shift the players they need to shift and therefore can't sign the players they need to sign, they need to ajust the expectations for this season or face another cycle of sacked managers + a new one coming in without being backed.
We needed 10's though... we don't have any 10's that can carry the ball.
What top striker targets have we decided to pass on btw?
He’s prioritising improved play and more importantly goals. Both those players are a match for several strikers in the league. There will be more business. For me the team was really starting to adapt to Amorim’s tactics at the end and we are looking at players that can slot into it not ones who can’t work it out. Would have liked more business done sooner but after Mbeumo we are just a 2 or 3 players away from huge improvement this coming season. Can’t believe fans aren’t buzzing more.
I want a new 9 as much as the next guy but Wilcox/Amorim clearly see cunha and Mbeumo as being able to add as many or more goals as cunha and one of the 9s that are realistically 'gettable' for a club in our position. There's absolutely no reason they can't add 35+ goal involvements between them next season
Exactly, this notion if we sign a 9, things will be fixed... far from it.
Look at how teams are struggling to get a 9... I am talking Arsenal, Liverpool who are at the top of the league... so how hard must it be for us to get a 9?
Instead, we decide to fix the other big problems, the 10. In the Amorim system, the 10's have to be able to hold the ball, drive with it and get G/A. What can Cunha and Mbuemo do? all of those things, whilst having done it in the PL.
He has said it numerous times, he wants a left footed right 10.... so the striker can wait until we fix those issues.
Agree entirely. There's a real dearth of top class 9s in general and a lot of clubs better positioned than us are after one. We'll look MUCH better going forward with cunha and Mbeumo next season, we should (hopefully) be a more attractive option for available 9s by then, and we should have a clearer run at them too.
. I guess i am little bit negative right now because i was 100% sure that we will finally get a proven striker.But, you are wrong with "lets wait till season starts". You know perfectly well how important is to sign players early and allow them to have pre-season. Especially when your opening fixtures look like ours.
For years now we are buying late and then our new signings are not available/in form for opening games.
Yeah, lets judge him in September but SO FAR this is not looking good.
Exactly. You have to be pragmatic with signings unless you are RM or PSG. You can see how hard its been for Arsenal to find a striker they want that they think will improve them.
You can't always buy what you want, when you want. Players aren't available, don't want to come, you can't afford them etc.
There are plenty of holes in our team but when you can fill a high priority one then you don't say "well this position is a slightly higher priority so lets wait til that is filled".
Rome is also not built in a day. If we fill half the positions we need this season and finish top 6 next season we will have a much easier transfer window.
Yep, I bet you if we got a striker fans would be saying we need 10..
Its all well and good saying what we need but we also have to look at the market, we are signing PL proven goal scorers.
Signing a top striker is very difficult at the moment, none that you say, yep he fits the bill whereas the 2 10's, you can say, yes they fit exactly what we need.
Agreed, we have to get to a position to attract the top players, right now we are not there.
Of course that no9 is not our only problem but it is major problem. Ok, we obviously have different views on this and i respect that but i would rather have Bruno-Osimhen-Amad then Cunha-Hojlund-Mbuemo. Despite the fact that i do like very, very much both Cunha and Mbuemo.
I expected that we will persuade Osimhen to sign or go early for Gyokeres before Arsenal reacts. Pedro was also a good and not so expensive option.
I know, i know that Osimhen wants huge wage but imo, he would worth every euro.
I believe it's cash issues, not PSR. We are in a healthy position PSR wise.
It's like your parents allowing you to spend 300$, but only giving you 120$ in cash.
I'm ok with the 2 10's but it would be suicidal if we start the new season without a new starting number 9 & number 8/6
Yes-I kind of agree but we have tanked our player's valuations by every club and his dog knowing that there is no chance of our unwanted players returning to the squad AND that we are desperate for money.
If you were a buying club, would you buy any of our players now or wait until the final few days of the transfer window?
Didn’t Ratcliffe say we were on course to run out of cash reserves by Christmas? I think you’re right in what you’re saying. Under PSR we’ll probably be comfortable if we can shift some of these players, which we could do easily I think but it seems we are more concerned about the cash we are getting for them.
Potentially - would then make it more likely that Bruno doesn't get shoved back into midfield then.
You’re probably right but it’s of no use to us to be selling at the end of the window. In the case of Garnacho and Antony, I think the club will refuse as we’ll need the numbers unless we buy further.
United need to make it clear to these teams that no more sales will be approved after a certain date to try to prevent this.
Yeah-I totally agree with you that it's no use to use selling "the unwanted" in the last few days of the window.
I guess I am trying too make the point that we do not hold the cards in this game. We can put a deadline for all player sales, sure, but everyone knows we want rid of them so our deadlines have no credibility..........unless you believe Amorim will reintegrate them into the squad if we have no takers?
That is a very good question but if I was the buying club, knowing the player is for sale, I would get the player in now.
Why wait 2 months for a player when I can get him in now? I dont buy this notion of we have tanked the players valuation either.
If you were a club looking for a LW... would you get a player now back your manager so he is ready for the season starting? Or gamble and wait till the end of the window?
We need money to buy players... if we dont sell players, we may not sell them for cheap because we cant go buy new players that late... It goes both ways though.
From the players point of view, most teams will want most of their transfer business early.. the later it goes the more panic buy it is.
Surely he wouldn’t? It feels like, with Rashford and Garnacho particularly, the bridges have been well and truly burned from both sides.
I think that’s wishful thinking. If a buying club thinks it has the money for 2 additions if they bought today, or 3 additions if they waited until the end of August, most owners would wait, get 3 players, and save the wages. I’m aware that’s over simplifying it.
It depends quite how much they think will get discounted though. Someone said earlier that Utd may need to play hardball this summer and potentially keep players in the reserves if they don’t get a big enough offer. And I think there is some truth in that, but it will take 2 or 3 transfer windows for buying clubs to realise they can’t low-ball you.
3 additions end of August, is a big gamble because most clubs wont sell their players cheap at the end of the window, because they need to replace those players. Lets take Rashford for example... his fee is £40m and 250k wages... if you do not negotiate his wages from now, you wont get to a point of fee because you might assume we will sell for 20m.
So if United have decided that they need the 40m to sign someone else.. regardless what you offer in August.. its useless to Manutd because 20m isn't getting us anything.
This is why it will take us 2/3 windows, its very hard to change your name, we have a name for overpaying and undervaluing players.
We as fans always blame it on us undervaluing players but look at Chelsea, they have sold players even when everyone knows they being pushed out.
Chelsea sold Gallagher when everyone knew he is being pushed out for a massive fee.
All our issues and negotiating is based on payment terms - spreading it out as much as possible. Thats what’s holding up Mbeumo.
Remember last year we paid above Zirkzee release clause just so that we could pay in instalments…..they are critical for cash flow and headroom.
Sales are absolutely critical to our cash positioning but terms for incomings need very careful negotiating…..we never really cared about this in the past (which is why we are in a poor financial position) and teams like Chelsea and City don’t have these issues which is why they just get done quickly.
We still owe lots every year on past transfers from the Woody/Arnold era which were not well negotiated deals.
Wilcox has a lot of plates to spin this summer….
Remember last year we paid above Zirkzee release clause just so that we could pay in instalments…..they are critical for cash flow and headroom.
Sales are absolutely critical to our cash positioning but terms for incomings need very careful negotiating…..we never really cared about this in the past (which is why we are in a poor financial position) and teams like Chelsea and City don’t have these issues which is why they just get done quickly.
We still owe lots every year on past transfers from the Woody/Arnold era which were not well negotiated deals.
Wilcox has a lot of plates to spin this summer….