Jason Wilcox - Director of Football

They are supposed to fix it. That’s not the issue. The issue is they’re trying to rewrite the story while they fix it: “we were the sensible adults evolving over time, and the coach was the impatient problem.”

Also "fix it" has two parts:
1) Act: replace the coach, change recruitment/structure, whatever
2) Own it: say "we got the appointment wrong and we are correcting course" instead of quietly briefing that it was all one guy's fault.

Because if you don’t take responsibility for the bad call, you’re basically telling everyone you’ll do the same thing again next cycle, with a different scapegoat. We are on season 12 of this shitty Netflix series.

And honestly, it’s insane how rarely you hear Berrada/Wilcox (or Woodward before them) explain their decisions directly to the United fans. Almost never. Instead it’s always: put the manager out front, ideally a foreigner still finding his footing in English and with the media, and let the tabloids tear him apart while the suits stay invisible.

How is that untrue? While they failed when it comes to the appointment pretty much everything that has leaked, matches with various press conferences. I would agree with your viewpoint if any of this didn't match with what Amorim said in press conferences, but here I don't think that most of this is meant to absolve them if anything most it puts in question the hiring process and vindicates Ashworth.

Now maybe for the sake of fans, they should explicitly say that they made a mistake but it makes no material difference, not stating it doesn't meant that they aren't learning from their mistakes. And to be honest I don't remember anyy club, successful or otherwise make that kind of statement.
 
The point is that no club has a bottomless pit of funds. He may have wanted a midfielder but we are also told he needed two dynamic 10s, a striker and a goalkeeper. That is a lot of positions to fill and its not clear he wanted prioritise a midfielder over the signings made.

I would argue we should have either used Bruno as a 10 (and not signed cunha) or got rid of him but Ruben wanted to retain him as a central midfielder.

The complete mess he made of the europa league final also reduced the budget.

This all just shows how obvious it was that huge amounts of money was needed to make his system to work. That should have been obvious to the club and amorim
And in doing so hemmed the club in needing a unicorn midfielder that can carry a midfield by himself after Bruno has gone wandering.
United post INEOS had done loads of mistakes. There's the ETH 'we don't want you' which included the farcical interviewing managers period which was then followed by a contract extension and then his near immediate sacking. Then there was the Ashworth saga and finally appointing a manager whose system would need a complete change within the squad, at a time when United are in financial turmoil.

Wilcox is the main culprit of course. However we're talking of a man who came at United as technical director only to be quickly promoted as DOF at the expense of a proven DOF which the CEO clearly didn't like. Berrada had a huge say in Ashworth being sacked, in Amorim being appointed and in Wilcox being promoted. He also had a say in recruiting Vivell. Vivell was considered as a transfer guru but most of our signings were pretty much predictable signings for huge fees, the exception being Lammens.
From the looks of things, Berrada brought in Wilcox as a power move to undermine Ashworth from the get go. He has to be held accountable for what is turning out to be costly mess that he instigated by stepping of Ashworth's toes.
So in my opinion, we need an experienced sporting director, Berrada needs to either be pushed out or pushed back into the financial part of the business and we need Wilcox demoted in his previous role.
I think we also need an experienced and less excitable CEO. At City he was an understudy to Begiristain not Solano so it's understandable that issues on the football side excite him more, we have ironically created another Woodward whilst in the process of repairing the damage caused by Woodward and his cronies.
 
How is that untrue? While they failed when it comes to the appointment pretty much everything that has leaked, matches with various press conferences. I would agree with your viewpoint if any of this didn't match with what Amorim said in press conferences, but here I don't think that most of this is meant to absolve them if anything most it puts in question the hiring process and vindicates Ashworth.

Now maybe for the sake of fans, they should explicitly say that they made a mistake but it makes no material difference, not stating it doesn't meant that they aren't learning from their mistakes. And to be honest I don't remember anyy club, successful or otherwise make that kind of statement.

The leaks can be broadly factual and still self-serving in how they’re framed. “Evolve over time” casts Wilcox as the patient adult, which is a judgment, not a fact. And the framing matters as it sets expectations about spending, authority, and style for the next guy, while quietly shifting heat away from the people still in charge. It is also hard to call this “harmless context” when the same reporting points to a breakdown with the hierarchy over system/formation and January recruitment, plus the club being on the hook for the full contract because there was no easy exit.

If the real lesson is a broken hiring process that incidentally vindicates Ashworth, then say that plainly. By multiple accounts there were internal reservations about whether a back three would work with this squad, and Ashworth pushed safer, Premier League–experienced alternatives while warning how hard that switch would be with the players United had. Other clubs reportedly assessed Amorim and passed. INEOS/Wilcox/Berrada made a high-conviction tactical hire despite known fit concerns and then acted surprised when the predictable friction/concerns showed up. I'm not asking for a public apology - clubs rarely do that, on that wqe agree, but the anoynoums briefing, manager-fronting routine is exactly how you end up repeating the same mistake.

Chase the “system,” ignore fit and timeline, then lurch reactively and package the fallout around one scapegoat. We’ve seen twelve seasons of this show already.
 
United post INEOS had done loads of mistakes. There's the ETH 'we don't want you' which included the farcical interviewing managers period which was then followed by a contract extension and then his near immediate sacking. Then there was the Ashworth saga and finally appointing a manager whose system would need a complete change within the squad, at a time when United are in financial turmoil.

Wilcox is the main culprit of course. However we're talking of a man who came at United as technical director only to be quickly promoted as DOF at the expense of a proven DOF which the CEO clearly didn't like. Berrada had a huge say in Ashworth being sacked, in Amorim being appointed and in Wilcox being promoted. He also had a say in recruiting Vivell. Vivell was considered as a transfer guru but most of our signings were pretty much predictable signings for huge fees, the exception being Lammens.

So in my opinion, we need an experienced sporting director, Berrada needs to either be pushed out or pushed back into the financial part of the business and we need Wilcox demoted in his previous role.

So INEOS so far:
  • Pick a public fight with Newcastle to pry loose their sporting director
  • Pay compensation to get him
  • Let him jog around Carrington for a few months
  • Decide Ten Hag is done at the end of 2024
  • Give him an extension because he won the FA Cup, obviously
  • Sack him anyway a few miserable months later
  • Pay out him + staff in full, because planning is for other clubs
  • Hire a Portuguese-league hipster married to a 3-4-3 that doesn’t fit the squad or United’s history
  • Bin the DOF (the one you just fought and paid for)
  • Ignore the 15th position in the table and keep the project going until it’s on fire.
  • Run recruitment like a blindfold test: move your best #10 into CM where he’s neutered, then buy an inferior #10 to play #10.
  • Stand back and admire the shitshow in real time.
  • Sack the Portuguese coach
  • Pay compensation again
  • Announce “a new era” and cue up Season 13

 
There’s a question as to whether Wilcox created this conflict on his own by meddling, or whether it’s SirJim by proxy
 
So INEOS so far:
  • Pick a public fight with Newcastle to pry loose their sporting director
  • Pay compensation to get him
  • Let him jog around Carrington for a few months
  • Decide Ten Hag is done at the end of 2024
  • Give him an extension because he won the FA Cup, obviously
  • Sack him anyway a few miserable months later
  • Pay out him + staff in full, because planning is for other clubs
  • Hire a Portuguese-league hipster married to a 3-4-3 that doesn’t fit the squad or United’s history
  • Bin the DOF (the one you just fought and paid for)
  • Ignore the 15th position in the table and keep the project going until it’s on fire.
  • Run recruitment like a blindfold test: move your best #10 into CM where he’s neutered, then buy an inferior #10 to play #10.
  • Stand back and admire the shitshow in real time.
  • Sack the Portuguese coach
  • Pay compensation again
  • Announce “a new era” and cue up Season 13
:lol:

What a mess they made when you compile it like this
 
So INEOS so far:
  • Pick a public fight with Newcastle to pry loose their sporting director
  • Pay compensation to get him
  • Let him jog around Carrington for a few months
  • Decide Ten Hag is done at the end of 2024
  • Give him an extension because he won the FA Cup, obviously
  • Sack him anyway a few miserable months later
  • Pay out him + staff in full, because planning is for other clubs
  • Hire a Portuguese-league hipster married to a 3-4-3 that doesn’t fit the squad or United’s history
  • Bin the DOF (the one you just fought and paid for)
  • Ignore the 15th position in the table and keep the project going until it’s on fire.
  • Run recruitment like a blindfold test: move your best #10 into CM where he’s neutered, then buy an inferior #10 to play #10.
  • Stand back and admire the shitshow in real time.
  • Sack the Portuguese coach
  • Pay compensation again
  • Announce “a new era” and cue up Season 13
It kind of justify why I never wanted them at our club
 
This bit is key, at no point does that require you to cost £65m a go or do they have to come from the league. That's just the players we've chosen and we also ignored the league proven bit when it came to Sesko. I agree it's an improvement on before and at least we're not buying utter flops, but we're still ignoring the midfield every window and then wondering why we can't control game.

If you have multiple areas for improvement and you decide to spend the majority of the budget on one area, you should be roundly criticised for poor allocation if that area you neglected - especially if it's integral to how good teams play, continues to suffer.
Completely agree with your posts.

I think many on here are channeling their frustrations in the wrong direction. And what I mean by that is, that say you're the CEO for example and for arguments sake, you go ahead and appoint a head coach without my input (I'm the DoF). What my job as the DoF is to then understand who the head coach is and how he sets up his team and how his system functions, and then go about setting a recruitment plan to help the coach succeed in implementing his system of play via the recruitment process. This is where Wilcox failed and he failed miserably and it would've got most coaches the sack due to his complete lack of understanding of recruiting players for a style of play in the present day EPL where the top teams are dominating games by sacrificing defensive stability for goals by having strong build up potential from the back and strong rest defense capabilities out of possession in a higher line.

I couldn't care less who appointed the head coach but it was absolutely the responsibility of Wilcox to direct the recruitment towards aiding the development of the head coach who was appointed at the club. And this is what the crux of the matter is imo.

It doesn‘t matter if the coach you've hired employs a back 4 formation or a back 3 formation. Because the fundamental requirements to implement a system of play that is proactive, requires the same positions to control the game in both the build up phase and also the rest defense where managing space out of possession greatly aids towards controlling the game. The game now is controlled by the collective in and out of possession and not like individual players did in the past. Because in the past, the amount of space that was afforded to the deeper players meant they had a abundance of time and space to pick their passes. In the present day, teams are applying coordinated pressure on the ball and having vertical passing ability at a high level within your CB and deeper midfield lines along with the ability to evade and resist pressure which is a key fundamental requirement to overcome the high pressing threat of the opponent. What we do as a team to overcome that problem is to bypass the midfield completely which works in some games but it hinders us in many other games. And this is the reason we don't have the ability to control the game and pin the opponent in their own half, especially against the decent teams in the league.

Any coach coming into Man Utd post ten Hag has to prioritise the CB and midfield connection to create the conditions to implement a system which has strong build up play from the back and into midfield and then that has to be backed up by the same players having the ability to manage space in a higher line. When you create this foundation in your team, you then have the foundation to create a style which sacrifices defensive stability for goals and sets us up to control and dominate the game. But as soon as many hear that a coach utilises a back 3 formation, then they can't seem to look past wingbacks and the reality is that a wingback is only as important as a fullback or a wide forward would be due to the requirement of horizontally stretching the pitch.

So with Amorim at SCP, he had a backline that could break lines at will and a central midfield pivot in Hjulmand who provided a strong presence in midfield where he was the first receiver of the pass and his ability to retain possession and vertically progress the ball was of a good level. So I'm not saying all of those 4 layers in defence and midfield were perfect but that 4 player dynamic where they had the ability to collectively progress the ball and defend against the transitions of the opposition was the foundation of SCP. And due to that 4 player dynamic it made the rest of the players even more effective, especially the wingbacks. Because when you have huge progressive ball playing from the backline and midfield as a collective then the ball is going find it's intended targets and hence the system is going to function.

Wilcox did nothing to aid the development of the system and instead like a rookie he directed far too much funds towards the forward line. And hence predictably the conversation was always going to turn towards the manager having to adapt to Wilcox's incompetence. And he was unlikely to survive the inevitable due to having a incapable first phase dynamic that has plagued us for years.
 
Completely agree with your posts.

I think many on here are channeling their frustrations in the wrong direction. And what I mean by that is, that say you're the CEO for example and for arguments sake, you go ahead and appoint a head coach without my input (I'm the DoF). What my job as the DoF is to then understand who the head coach is and how he sets up his team and how his system functions, and then go about setting a recruitment plan to help the coach succeed in implementing his system of play via the recruitment process. This is where Wilcox failed and he failed miserably and it would've got most coaches the sack due to his complete lack of understanding of recruiting players for a style of play in the present day EPL where the top teams are dominating games by sacrificing defensive stability for goals by having strong build up potential from the back and strong rest defense capabilities out of possession in a higher line.

I couldn't care less who appointed the head coach but it was absolutely the responsibility of Wilcox to direct the recruitment towards aiding the development of the head coach who was appointed at the club. And this is what the crux of the matter is imo.

It doesn‘t matter if the coach you've hired employs a back 4 formation or a back 3 formation. Because the fundamental requirements to implement a system of play that is proactive, requires the same positions to control the game in both the build up phase and also the rest defense where managing space out of possession greatly aids towards controlling the game. The game now is controlled by the collective in and out of possession and not like individual players did in the past. Because in the past, the amount of space that was afforded to the deeper players meant they had a abundance of time and space to pick their passes. In the present day, teams are applying coordinated pressure on the ball and having vertical passing ability at a high level within your CB and deeper midfield lines along with the ability to evade and resist pressure which is a key fundamental requirement to overcome the high pressing threat of the opponent. What we do as a team to overcome that problem is to bypass the midfield completely which works in some games but it hinders us in many other games. And this is the reason we don't have the ability to control the game and pin the opponent in their own half, especially against the decent teams in the league.

Any coach coming into Man Utd post ten Hag has to prioritise the CB and midfield connection to create the conditions to implement a system which has strong build up play from the back and into midfield and then that has to be backed up by the same players having the ability to manage space in a higher line. When you create this foundation in your team, you then have the foundation to create a style which sacrifices defensive stability for goals and sets us up to control and dominate the game. But as soon as many hear that a coach utilises a back 3 formation, then they can't seem to look past wingbacks and the reality is that a wingback is only as important as a fullback or a wide forward would be due to the requirement of horizontally stretching the pitch.

So with Amorim at SCP, he had a backline that could break lines at will and a central midfield pivot in Hjulmand who provided a strong presence in midfield where he was the first receiver of the pass and his ability to retain possession and vertically progress the ball was of a good level. So I'm not saying all of those 4 layers in defence and midfield were perfect but that 4 player dynamic where they had the ability to collectively progress the ball and defend against the transitions of the opposition was the foundation of SCP. And due to that 4 player dynamic it made the rest of the players even more effective, especially the wingbacks. Because when you have huge progressive ball playing from the backline and midfield as a collective then the ball is going find it's intended targets and hence the system is going to function.

Wilcox did nothing to aid the development of the system and instead like a rookie he directed far too much funds towards the forward line. And hence predictably the conversation was always going to turn towards the manager having to adapt to Wilcox's incompetence. And he was unlikely to survive the inevitable due to having a incapable first phase dynamic that has plagued us for years.
Exactly, you may not like the decision, you may think he won't last, but you still have to do the job for the good of the club, because the decision has been made. You can make some contingency by not spunking cash on hyper specialist roles, like wing backs, but there are clear fundamentals of a successful team he's demonstrably ignored. It's never been more apparent with the league now, the team that is running away with it just don't give up chances - their attack is pretty average, only half their goals come from open play. "Lesser" teams are able to pick up attacking talent so easily now, making them extremely dangerous on the break. This only exacerbates the need for the profiles we're discussing. Before Isak and Wirtz, the 3 record transfers were Enzo, Caicedo and Rice and they all had willing suitors to pay top dollar for them. Arsenal still dominating without a real striker, yet our recruitment team determined focussing completely on attack was the right . Take Amorim, the formation, etc out of it - they just don't get the league we're in.

Agreed, I think he's wasted time, which isn't a given in our situation. We're now walking a tightrope to get European football, because it's going to difficult for anyone to trying to play a proactive style with the squad. I know he can always say, we can adapt for the players we have and this season play more counter attacking and become more expansive next season, but why not just set the squad up with the right profiles and you can build from a stable base? It makes zero sense to have a strategy of lurching between systems every season.

Amorim was never my first choice anyway, as I always thought the system would become the main focus as in England we just can't get onboard with 3 backs, United fans especially will find it hard to ever get on board with it, as it's only ever associated with being defensive. That's not to say he couldn't be a success with it, but without that key CB and midfield connection, it was never going to show what it could be. Watching Martinez step into midfield has given us a flavour of what it could been - but he's meant to stepping into midfield to be additive to the quality there, not the only real quality on the ball. I genuinely think having someone solid in possession and ability to cover ground would make an incredible difference and we could get away with Bruno in there having someone like that for this season. This is not even a defence of Amorim's system, because I think the same thing can happen under a new manager and formation. They will need that player, whatever level of quality it might be. Funny thing is the Sabitizer and Amrabaat loans weren't that bad, they were a low quality version of a midfielder we needed. I don't see how we couldn't have found someone a step up from them in the summer, for a reasonable price.

The only thing I can say about Wilcox now, is he's such a rookie and his first big role, that maybe this is just an expensive mistake, he'll learn from it and has a real opportunity to show he understand what we need. It's frustrating it will probably cost us a small fortune yet again, but maybe we'll finally start focussing on the right profiles. If we don't I give up!
 
The leaks can be broadly factual and still self-serving in how they’re framed. “Evolve over time” casts Wilcox as the patient adult, which is a judgment, not a fact. And the framing matters as it sets expectations about spending, authority, and style for the next guy, while quietly shifting heat away from the people still in charge. It is also hard to call this “harmless context” when the same reporting points to a breakdown with the hierarchy over system/formation and January recruitment, plus the club being on the hook for the full contract because there was no easy exit.

If the real lesson is a broken hiring process that incidentally vindicates Ashworth, then say that plainly. By multiple accounts there were internal reservations about whether a back three would work with this squad, and Ashworth pushed safer, Premier League–experienced alternatives while warning how hard that switch would be with the players United had. Other clubs reportedly assessed Amorim and passed. INEOS/Wilcox/Berrada made a high-conviction tactical hire despite known fit concerns and then acted surprised when the predictable friction/concerns showed up. I'm not asking for a public apology - clubs rarely do that, on that wqe agree, but the anoynoums briefing, manager-fronting routine is exactly how you end up repeating the same mistake.

Chase the “system,” ignore fit and timeline, then lurch reactively and package the fallout around one scapegoat. We’ve seen twelve seasons of this show already.
Right on, a proper and thorough root cause analysis has to be done because this has been a costly blunder. Wilcox washing his hands off this mess via leaks and scapegoating isn't on, I hope internally, and before embarking on a permanent hire, they self introspection and at higher level they assess whether Wilcox is the right fit for where we want to go.
 
Amorim should have been sacked long ago due to a terrible run of results, yet Wilcox only sacked him when he dared to question Wilcox. Wilcox is a fraud.
Maaaybe.

Or maybe they were willing to put up with the terrible results for a while, because behind the scene Amorim was telling them that he had a plan, that he was going to evolve the system, that they just needed to weather the storm while he got the pieces in place. Hell, we know he was training in 4-3-3 on the weeks, so it doesn't seem that outlandish. I can see them giving him time, not wanting to blow millions in compensation after sacking him. And then he throws it all back in your face in public, telling you to go piss up a rope and leave him to play his precious 3-4-3.

At that point he has to go. You have to have an immense amount of credit in the bank to get away with behaviour like that, and Amorim obviously didn't.
 
Completely agree with your posts.

I think many on here are channeling their frustrations in the wrong direction. And what I mean by that is, that say you're the CEO for example and for arguments sake, you go ahead and appoint a head coach without my input (I'm the DoF). What my job as the DoF is to then understand who the head coach is and how he sets up his team and how his system functions, and then go about setting a recruitment plan to help the coach succeed in implementing his system of play via the recruitment process. This is where Wilcox failed and he failed miserably and it would've got most coaches the sack due to his complete lack of understanding of recruiting players for a style of play in the present day EPL where the top teams are dominating games by sacrificing defensive stability for goals by having strong build up potential from the back and strong rest defense capabilities out of possession in a higher line.

I couldn't care less who appointed the head coach but it was absolutely the responsibility of Wilcox to direct the recruitment towards aiding the development of the head coach who was appointed at the club. And this is what the crux of the matter is imo.

It doesn‘t matter if the coach you've hired employs a back 4 formation or a back 3 formation. Because the fundamental requirements to implement a system of play that is proactive, requires the same positions to control the game in both the build up phase and also the rest defense where managing space out of possession greatly aids towards controlling the game. The game now is controlled by the collective in and out of possession and not like individual players did in the past. Because in the past, the amount of space that was afforded to the deeper players meant they had a abundance of time and space to pick their passes. In the present day, teams are applying coordinated pressure on the ball and having vertical passing ability at a high level within your CB and deeper midfield lines along with the ability to evade and resist pressure which is a key fundamental requirement to overcome the high pressing threat of the opponent. What we do as a team to overcome that problem is to bypass the midfield completely which works in some games but it hinders us in many other games. And this is the reason we don't have the ability to control the game and pin the opponent in their own half, especially against the decent teams in the league.

Any coach coming into Man Utd post ten Hag has to prioritise the CB and midfield connection to create the conditions to implement a system which has strong build up play from the back and into midfield and then that has to be backed up by the same players having the ability to manage space in a higher line. When you create this foundation in your team, you then have the foundation to create a style which sacrifices defensive stability for goals and sets us up to control and dominate the game. But as soon as many hear that a coach utilises a back 3 formation, then they can't seem to look past wingbacks and the reality is that a wingback is only as important as a fullback or a wide forward would be due to the requirement of horizontally stretching the pitch.

So with Amorim at SCP, he had a backline that could break lines at will and a central midfield pivot in Hjulmand who provided a strong presence in midfield where he was the first receiver of the pass and his ability to retain possession and vertically progress the ball was of a good level. So I'm not saying all of those 4 layers in defence and midfield were perfect but that 4 player dynamic where they had the ability to collectively progress the ball and defend against the transitions of the opposition was the foundation of SCP. And due to that 4 player dynamic it made the rest of the players even more effective, especially the wingbacks. Because when you have huge progressive ball playing from the backline and midfield as a collective then the ball is going find it's intended targets and hence the system is going to function.

Wilcox did nothing to aid the development of the system and instead like a rookie he directed far too much funds towards the forward line. And hence predictably the conversation was always going to turn towards the manager having to adapt to Wilcox's incompetence. And he was unlikely to survive the inevitable due to having a incapable first phase dynamic that has plagued us for years.
Great post and well explained!
 
They will need that player, whatever level of quality it might be. Funny thing is the Sabitizer and Amrabaat loans weren't that bad, they were a low quality version of a midfielder we needed. I don't see how we couldn't have found someone a step up from them in the summer, for a reasonable price.
Good point. I agree with the rest of your post as well
The only thing I can say about Wilcox now, is he's such a rookie and his first big role, that maybe this is just an expensive mistake, he'll learn from it and has a real opportunity to show he understand what we need. It's frustrating it will probably cost us a small fortune yet again, but maybe we'll finally start focussing on the right profiles. If we don't I give up!
Lets hope so. But the pitchworks will be out.
 
Good point. I agree with the rest of your post as well

Lets hope so. But the pitchworks will be out.
I definitely feel like we've just been told the only way we can improve our squad is signing "league proven" players, they cost more, so we can't afford to fix all our problems at once. I just don't buy into that at all there is a middle ground between loaning Sabitzer/Amrabaat and spending 100m or Baleba/Wharton/Anderson.

We are where we are now. It feels entirely avoidable, but if it works out long-term, maybe it will be net positive in the end.
 
I definitely feel like we've just been told the only way we can improve our squad is signing "league proven" players, they cost more, so we can't afford to fix all our problems at once. I just don't buy into that at all there is a middle ground between loaning Sabitzer/Amrabaat and spending 100m or Baleba/Wharton/Anderson.

We are where we are now. It feels entirely avoidable, but if it works out long-term, maybe it will be net positive in the end.
Agreed, and that's where the lack of scouting seems to come in. United have bought too many players that anyone on the street could name and then you wonder what's the point of scouting then.
 
I definitely feel like we've just been told the only way we can improve our squad is signing "league proven" players, they cost more, so we can't afford to fix all our problems at once. I just don't buy into that at all there is a middle ground between loaning Sabitzer/Amrabaat and spending 100m or Baleba/Wharton/Anderson.

We are where we are now. It feels entirely avoidable, but if it works out long-term, maybe it will be net positive in the end.
That’s the model Liverpool used to build their squad when they were buying wholesale from Southampton. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s far less variance when buying in the league.
 
I definitely feel like we've just been told the only way we can improve our squad is signing "league proven" players, they cost more, so we can't afford to fix all our problems at once. I just don't buy into that at all there is a middle ground between loaning Sabitzer/Amrabaat and spending 100m or Baleba/Wharton/Anderson.

We are where we are now. It feels entirely avoidable, but if it works out long-term, maybe it will be net positive in the end.
Bit of a random point but I liked Sabitzer :lol:
 
That’s the model Liverpool used to build their squad when they were buying wholesale from Southampton. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s far less variance when buying in the league.
Yes, but it wasn't just the best and most expensive. It was also Robertson, Shaqiri and Wijnaldum from relegated sides and Matip on a free.
Agreed, and that's where the lack of scouting seems to come in. United have bought too many players that anyone on the street could name and then you wonder what's the point of scouting then.
I don't think it's a lack of scouting, it's a lack of imagination from the recruitment team. These players 100% come across their desk, we know Caicedo, Alvarez, Haaland and others were put forward, but never materialise for some reason.
Bit of a random point but I liked Sabitzer :lol:
So did I! I actually think the version we saw would been good for Amorim's system to be honest, he had a bit of everything in midfield.
 
That’s the model Liverpool used to build their squad when they were buying wholesale from Southampton. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s far less variance when buying in the league.
As far as I know there is the same variance.
 
If there’s a quantitative comparison, I’d love to see it. If not, it’s a great topic for a data journalist.

I have seen some years ago but I don't have them anymore. From memory there are several things to highlight, only between 40%-50% of transfers are successful, then it's a matter of context, players with relegation batte experience are more suited for clubs in that context, players with EL battle experience or CL experience are more suited for each of these context, when it comes to a player that is expected to elevate his game, it's a coin toss and the only somewhat useful data is in the context of a player who is unable to maintain his production from league to continental competitions.

The main key to success is scouting players' actual traits, not where they come from or how they are used within an environment that you can't replicate. And determine whether these traits fit with your environment.
 
The only thing I can say about Wilcox now, is he's such a rookie and his first big role, that maybe this is just an expensive mistake, he'll learn from it and has a real opportunity to show he understand what we need. It's frustrating it will probably cost us a small fortune yet again, but maybe we'll finally start focussing on the right profiles. If we don't I give up!
One thing that is as frustrating and uncertain as it is hopeful with this new ‘Ratcliffe era’ thingy, is that, barring quite a bit of luck, it has to take time and teething problems at every level before any eventual quality will actualize.

The Strasbourg and Nice experiences will not suffice to put up a well functioning CEO - SD - H of R set up from the get go. It may be hits and misses even at that level, and cutting losses might be a part of a good process. Ashworth may be part of that, Berrada-Wilcox-Vivell collaboration may not work well yet - or at all. First when this part of the organization settles, it is likely that we can even start to expect stable and good decisions on manager choices, recruitment staff aand methods, and player purchaces. And only in a third wave, after that - maybe - falls into place, we can expect to see consistent improvements in the team performances on the pitch.

There will be ups and downs and hits and misses on the pitch even before that, but consistency at a ‘top-of-the-PL’-level is not realistic before that third wave. Thus the expectations of us being better than 5th-10th at this point is a bit beside the point, really, and doesn’t make sense as a ground for sacking Amorim. However, if the issue was that Amorim couldn’t cooperate with the direction United is heading/stumbling for at CEO/SD/HoR level, it might be a good reason to cut the losses even if he should turn out to be a better coach than Wilcox is a Sporting Director (which I suspect).

However, if Utd keeps floundering and asigning the wrong tasks to the wrong people, or relying important decisions to a clearly very incompetent Board, I have little hope. But it’s way to early to say from the outside IMO.
 
So INEOS so far:
  • Pick a public fight with Newcastle to pry loose their sporting director
  • Pay compensation to get him
  • Let him jog around Carrington for a few months
  • Decide Ten Hag is done at the end of 2024
  • Give him an extension because he won the FA Cup, obviously
  • Sack him anyway a few miserable months later
  • Pay out him + staff in full, because planning is for other clubs
  • Hire a Portuguese-league hipster married to a 3-4-3 that doesn’t fit the squad or United’s history
  • Bin the DOF (the one you just fought and paid for)
  • Ignore the 15th position in the table and keep the project going until it’s on fire.
  • Run recruitment like a blindfold test: move your best #10 into CM where he’s neutered, then buy an inferior #10 to play #10.
  • Stand back and admire the shitshow in real time.
  • Sack the Portuguese coach
  • Pay compensation again
  • Announce “a new era” and cue up Season 13
That’s a pretty good summary.

I’m not going to pretend I know who’s responsible for what within the club hierarchy, but it’s pretty obvious that two years into the INEOS era, we’re not doing very well.

The Amorim disaster was completely preventable. He was a terrible fit for United, and that should have been clear to anybody involved in the interview process. The fact that it wasn’t identified casts serious doubt over the next hire.

I have zero confidence that the club’s C-suite can come up with a strategy that brings United back into title contention—let alone implement it. At this point, our only real chance is getting lucky with the next head coach/manager and having that person finally play to our strengths and deliver results. I don’t think the squad is as bad as some people make it out to be.
 
So INEOS so far:
  • Pick a public fight with Newcastle to pry loose their sporting director
  • Pay compensation to get him
  • Let him jog around Carrington for a few months
  • Decide Ten Hag is done at the end of 2024
  • Give him an extension because he won the FA Cup, obviously
  • Sack him anyway a few miserable months later
  • Pay out him + staff in full, because planning is for other clubs
  • Hire a Portuguese-league hipster married to a 3-4-3 that doesn’t fit the squad or United’s history
  • Bin the DOF (the one you just fought and paid for)
  • Ignore the 15th position in the table and keep the project going until it’s on fire.
  • Run recruitment like a blindfold test: move your best #10 into CM where he’s neutered, then buy an inferior #10 to play #10.
  • Stand back and admire the shitshow in real time.
  • Sack the Portuguese coach
  • Pay compensation again
  • Announce “a new era” and cue up Season 13
You missed all the layoffs, ticket rises, silly plan for Stadium even before acquiring land etc.
 
Needs to be a full review on this bloke when the season finishes. He seems like a sweet talker and Ratcliffe has bought what he's selling thus far. If the season ends up another failure, you'd assume his job is most certainly under threat.
 
Mate, we've been screaming for a proper midfield since before Amorim came in and Casemiro was labeled completely washed - he objectively improved him. Why does everyone present this false dichotomy of we either buy forwards or midfielders? That's lowering your standards more. We're fecking Manchester United with the biggest scouting network and budget in the in the world and I bet Wilcox and Co get paid fecking handsomely while, everyone round the globe sends them their scouting reports. Genuinely whats the point of it all it if we just buy the best players available in the the league for massive prices. There is absolutely no reason we could have invest in both areas, we've just decided not to.
There's no false dichotomy, we shipped out 3 forwards, and bought 3 at the behest of Amorim I might add. Would you rather us have no forwards? The second bolded bit just isn't true, and yet we still spent 200 odd million this summer. The third bolded bit is probably fair, however, its not really that easy to find a hidden gem like a Kante, or a Vidic these days, as everybody is scouting all around the world.
 
There's no false dichotomy, we shipped out 3 forwards, and bought 3 at the behest of Amorim I might add. Would you rather us have no forwards? The second bolded bit just isn't true, and yet we still spent 200 odd million this summer. The third bolded bit is probably fair, however, its not really that easy to find a hidden gem like a Kante, or a Vidic these days, as everybody is scouting all around the world.
Way to prove my point :lol:.

Edit: Second part I was referring to the scouting budget, not the transfer budget.
 
Watching our 2 executives in the stand yesterday gave me evil villain vibes. I kept waiting for minions to run out on the pitch.
 
Watching our 2 executives in the stand yesterday gave me evil villain vibes. I kept waiting for minions to run out on the pitch.

Evil villains is probably giving them too much credit…this was more aligned to what I saw.

 
Completely agree with your posts.

I think many on here are channeling their frustrations in the wrong direction. And what I mean by that is, that say you're the CEO for example and for arguments sake, you go ahead and appoint a head coach without my input (I'm the DoF). What my job as the DoF is to then understand who the head coach is and how he sets up his team and how his system functions, and then go about setting a recruitment plan to help the coach succeed in implementing his system of play via the recruitment process. This is where Wilcox failed and he failed miserably and it would've got most coaches the sack due to his complete lack of understanding of recruiting players for a style of play in the present day EPL where the top teams are dominating games by sacrificing defensive stability for goals by having strong build up potential from the back and strong rest defense capabilities out of possession in a higher line.

I couldn't care less who appointed the head coach but it was absolutely the responsibility of Wilcox to direct the recruitment towards aiding the development of the head coach who was appointed at the club. And this is what the crux of the matter is imo.

It doesn‘t matter if the coach you've hired employs a back 4 formation or a back 3 formation. Because the fundamental requirements to implement a system of play that is proactive, requires the same positions to control the game in both the build up phase and also the rest defense where managing space out of possession greatly aids towards controlling the game. The game now is controlled by the collective in and out of possession and not like individual players did in the past. Because in the past, the amount of space that was afforded to the deeper players meant they had a abundance of time and space to pick their passes. In the present day, teams are applying coordinated pressure on the ball and having vertical passing ability at a high level within your CB and deeper midfield lines along with the ability to evade and resist pressure which is a key fundamental requirement to overcome the high pressing threat of the opponent. What we do as a team to overcome that problem is to bypass the midfield completely which works in some games but it hinders us in many other games. And this is the reason we don't have the ability to control the game and pin the opponent in their own half, especially against the decent teams in the league.

Any coach coming into Man Utd post ten Hag has to prioritise the CB and midfield connection to create the conditions to implement a system which has strong build up play from the back and into midfield and then that has to be backed up by the same players having the ability to manage space in a higher line. When you create this foundation in your team, you then have the foundation to create a style which sacrifices defensive stability for goals and sets us up to control and dominate the game. But as soon as many hear that a coach utilises a back 3 formation, then they can't seem to look past wingbacks and the reality is that a wingback is only as important as a fullback or a wide forward would be due to the requirement of horizontally stretching the pitch.

So with Amorim at SCP, he had a backline that could break lines at will and a central midfield pivot in Hjulmand who provided a strong presence in midfield where he was the first receiver of the pass and his ability to retain possession and vertically progress the ball was of a good level. So I'm not saying all of those 4 layers in defence and midfield were perfect but that 4 player dynamic where they had the ability to collectively progress the ball and defend against the transitions of the opposition was the foundation of SCP. And due to that 4 player dynamic it made the rest of the players even more effective, especially the wingbacks. Because when you have huge progressive ball playing from the backline and midfield as a collective then the ball is going find it's intended targets and hence the system is going to function.

Wilcox did nothing to aid the development of the system and instead like a rookie he directed far too much funds towards the forward line. And hence predictably the conversation was always going to turn towards the manager having to adapt to Wilcox's incompetence. And he was unlikely to survive the inevitable due to having a incapable first phase dynamic that has plagued us for years.

Nice post
 
Why an interim? Are we just writing off the season?

Either we sacked Amorim for results—meaning contingencies are in place and they'd already been talking to heavyweight managers about vision, fit, and how they'd slot into the club structure, right?

Or, here's where it gets delicious, they sat through the worst managerial record in Premier League history (38.1% win rate, 1,23 ppg, 15th place finish, dumped by Grimsby Town), shrugged at all of it, then suddenly discovered standards when he criticized upper management.

Process™.

@JPRouve
 
Why an interim? Are we just writing off the season?

Either we sacked Amorim for results—meaning contingencies are in place and they'd already been talking to heavyweight managers about vision, fit, and how they'd slot into the club structure, right?

Or, here's where it gets delicious, they sat through the worst managerial record in Premier League history (38.1% win rate, 1,23 ppg, 15th place finish, dumped by Grimsby Town), shrugged at all of it, then suddenly discovered standards when he criticized upper management.

Process™.

@JPRouve

Is the question for me or is it a typo?
 
That’s the model Liverpool used to build their squad when they were buying wholesale from Southampton. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s far less variance when buying in the league.
As far as I know there is the same variance.
If there’s a quantitative comparison, I’d love to see it. If not, it’s a great topic for a data journalist.

I don't know what it's like for transfers from between PL clubs, and I haven't found such a comparison, but I did stumble across this analysis of the extent to which player output drops when moving from other leagues. One would imagine transfers between PL clubs would on average fair better than from clubs in other leagues based on this:

"Analyst Tony ElHabr looked at how player performance changed when players changed leagues. Simply: Did their VAEP (Valuing Actions by Estimating Probabilities) go up or go down?

He studied the seasons from 2012 through 2020. And he found that when players moved to the Premier League from any of the Big Five leagues, their output decreased. LaLiga players suffered a 5% decrease, while Ligue 1 players dropped off by 10% and guys coming over from Serie A fell off by 12%. The biggest drop-off across the Big Five, though, came when players transferred in from the Bundesliga: a 17% drop-off, larger than players from Portugal and Brazil, and roughly equivalent to what happened when players made the step up from the Championship".

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...-league-such-tough-leap-other-leagues-players
 
Is the question for me or is it a typo?
It's a question - I recall you mentioning that Wilcox should be judged on the process for hiring the post-Amorim manager. To me, going with an interim already suggests the process is reactive rather than planned. Curious to hear your thoughts on that?
 
Why an interim? Are we just writing off the season?

Either we sacked Amorim for results—meaning contingencies are in place and they'd already been talking to heavyweight managers about vision, fit, and how they'd slot into the club structure, right?

Or, here's where it gets delicious, they sat through the worst managerial record in Premier League history (38.1% win rate, 1,23 ppg, 15th place finish, dumped by Grimsby Town), shrugged at all of it, then suddenly discovered standards when he criticized upper management.

Process™.

@JPRouve
Both can be true and one a direct consequence of the other.

Tasty.
 
It's a question - I recall you mentioning that Wilcox should be judged on the process for hiring the post-Amorim manager. To me, going with an interim already suggests the process is reactive rather than planned. Curious to hear your thoughts on that?

I don't really see how you came to that conclusion, it makes no logical sense. What process are you talking about? If you are talking about the firing process then I would agree, I don't think that it was planned, it seems to be a reaction to Amorim rejecting the idea of being audited and his lack of openness when it comes to collaboration which is highlighted by his bizarre rant about being a manager not a coach.

Now when it comes to the hiring process it makes sense to bring an interim manager if you feel the need to assess your previous actions, understand your shortcomings and try to fix them, from that point you formulate a plan. It also makes sense if you have a plan and your preferred options aren't available until summer.

But it's also possible that they keep freestyling and are still full of it.