Jason Wilcox - New technical director

Nytram Shakes

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They need to have a conversation asap. Things will only get worse if uncertainties drag on into the new season
Im not sure I agree, I think take there time as long as we don’t get relegated next season there is no massive benefit to rushing.

We will be far better of getting the new structure in place letting them bed in assess the club, culture, player and management staff. Then making big decisions as they come up next season. In the mean time holding pattern, no big signings no big contract renewals, let a few aging players go if we get offers and let go people out of contract and bring in a few loan players / short term deals.

Does it mean writing off next season possibly but we have far better chance of being in better health going forward if we don’t make rash decisions before the new structure has had time to bed in, assess the situation and form a plan.
 

Daengophile

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Im not sure I agree, I think take there time as long as we don’t get relegated next season there is no massive benefit to rushing.

We will be far better of getting the new structure in place letting them bed in assess the club, culture, player and management staff. Then making big decisions as they come up next season. In the mean time holding pattern, no big signings no big contract renewals, let a few aging players go if we get offers and let go people out of contract and bring in a few loan players / short term deals.

Does it mean writing off next season possibly but we have far better chance of being in better health going forward if we don’t make rash decisions before the new structure has had time to bed in, assess the situation and form a plan.
Ruthlessness will be rewarded in the medium term
 

simonhch

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Hope SJR, Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox are also fuming now like majority of the fans. He has to go and no more excuses. This is not the first time we were being outplayed by smaller team.
I mean, according to the media Ratcliffe threw a wobbly when he saw how untidy the IT department offices were. So the idea he doesn’t feel positively homicidal after a 4-0 thrashing by Palace, after nearly being humiliated by Coventry, is almost laughable.

If EtH is still here next season, it’ll be in a proverbial gimp suit, playing football the way Ashworth and Wilcox tell him to. Between coaching sessions - audited by Wilcox - and matches - audited by Berrada and Ashworth - he’ll be kept in a box under the stairs.

I’ll say confidently that even if EtH stays, we won’t ever see the 4-0-6 formation again, from the start of next season.
 

The Mitcher

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I mean, according to the media Ratcliffe threw a wobbly when he saw how untidy the IT department offices were. So the idea he doesn’t feel positively homicidal after a 4-0 thrashing by Palace, after nearly being humiliated by Coventry, is almost laughable.

If EtH is still here next season, it’ll be in a proverbial gimp suit, playing football the way Ashworth and Wilcox tell him to. Between coaching sessions - audited by Wilcox - and matches - audited by Berrada and Ashworth - he’ll be kept in a box under the stairs.

I’ll say confidently that even if EtH stays, we won’t ever see the 4-0-6 formation again, from the start of next season.
Actions speak louder than words. All we see is INEOS taking no time at all in sorting out non-football parts of the club and sacking low level minions in the footballing part. Yet we get complete inaction when it comes to the manager, and if the rumours are to be believed they are either think he deserves a contract or are too cheap sack him. They are dithering, and if they truly are disappointed and angry with ETH, then what are they waiting for?
 
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Ok, you don't seem to understand that it's the club who will dictate what our style of football is. The manager does what he's told.
Rather it's you who doesn't seem to understand that his job isn't to have a say in match day tactics right now. Nor in the future.

It's to have a say in the club's game model and style long term. Right now anyone who thinks he is going to walk in with 6 games left and start building a game model instantly "by dicating match day game tactics" rather than assess what is the state of the play, what is missing and why, THEN start with the entire coaching set up of the club, to discuss the foundations, direction and strategic plan for a long term game model is literally out of their minds and delusional. For even at City he had no such brief to pick match day tactics.

His job is to provide a game model for the coaching staff to coach their tactics with in. Which will serve the DOF & recrutiment department the template of talent to look to recruit at every level of the club. Not to pick match day tactics for manager's on match day.
 
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simonhch

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Actions speak louder than words. All we see is INEOS taking no time at all in sorting out non-football parts of the club and sacking low level minions in the footballing part. Yet we get complete inaction when it comes to the manager, and if the rumours are to be believed they are either think he deserves a contract or are too cheap sack him. They are dithering, and if they truly are disappointed and angry with ETH, then what are they waiting for?
That’s a great example of reactive thinking, such a poor post.
 

The Mitcher

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That’s a great example of reactive thinking, such a poor post.
Nonsense. We've had several months to look at what they are doing, and they are dithering when it comes to the actual big problems with the team.
 

Paul778

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Obviously. Just not this season. This season he is going to assess what is missing to come up with the game model to take the club forward.
There is the long term strategy granted but I'm sure there is so much low hanging fruit that can be done immediately it's untrue.

In the past few games there have been dozens of examples of the players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing on the field. Also playing kamazaki 4141 has got to stop.

This is why I'm sure ETH is gone FA Cup Final win or not. We all saw the problems in preseason and the first three games of the season. The one thing INEOS will not abide is a stubborn manager. The tactics, the training, the body language of the players all stinks.

One of the biggest roles of the manager is to get the team playing better than the sum of the parts. Noone believes he can do that. The pressers the past few weeks are very reminiscent of previous managers making lame excuses and claiming they have club backing - until the axe comes down.
 

Sandikan

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Actions speak louder than words. All we see is INEOS taking no time at all in sorting out non-football parts of the club and sacking low level minions in the footballing part. Yet we get complete inaction when it comes to the manager, and if the rumours are to be believed they are either think he deserves a contract or are too cheap sack him. They are dithering, and if they truly are disappointed and angry with ETH, then what are they waiting for?
Maybe they're taking their time to decide what the best option is rather than leaping in and setting us on the path to another terrible option?
 

Sandikan

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One of the biggest roles of the manager is to get the team playing better than the sum of the parts.
Trying to think when we last had this.

Van Gaal was probably the closest, as he was tactically spot on with how we controlled games at times.
Unfortunately he'd put all his eggs in the Rooney as main player basket and we had a lack of quality around the attack.

All the other managers have relied on the big players rescuing games. Ole had most of a season getting away with 2nd half comebacks.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Maybe they're taking their time to decide what the best option is rather than leaping in and setting us on the path to another terrible option?
Hope this is the case. It's simply not acceptable for a Man Utd manager with such terrible results to continue. We are at 8th position! It will not even be acceptable to clubs like Spurs, Newcastle.
 

Herschel Krustofsky

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‘Worst coached team in the PL‘ and ‘Game Model’ are riding high on my Punditry Parroting Bingo chart of late.
 

Remember the geese

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Rather it's you who doesn't seem to understand that his job isn't to have a say in match day tactics right now. Nor in the future.

It's to have a say in the club's game model and style long term. Right now anyone who thinks he is going to walk in with 6 games left and start building a game model instantly "by dicating match day game tactics" rather than assess what is the state of the play, what is missing and why, THEN start with the entire coaching set up of the club, to discuss the foundations, direction and strategic plan for a long term game model is literally out of their minds and delusional. For even at City he had no such brief to pick match day tactics.

His job is to provide a game model for the coaching staff to coach their tactics with in. Which will serve the DOF & recrutiment department the template of talent to look to recruit at every level of the club. Not to pick match day tactics for manager's on match day.
I'm not sure why you're so hung up on "match day tactics". Going forward, the club decide the style of football they want the team to play. The manager then has to coach that style. It's very simple.
 

The Mitcher

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Maybe they're taking their time to decide what the best option is rather than leaping in and setting us on the path to another terrible option?
How long does it take to realise ETH needs sacking? It doesn't take a month, you have the whole of this season and even last season after the cup win to see he's useless.
 

Sandikan

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How long does it take to realise ETH needs sacking? It doesn't take a month, you have the whole of this season and even last season after the cup win to see he's useless.
The decision will have been made. There's absolutely no benefit of doing it in the last 2 weeks of the season.
 

simonhch

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Nonsense. We've had several months to look at what they are doing, and they are dithering when it comes to the actual big problems with the team.
Good grief. You need a lie down. They are clearly being very methodical. It’s been 80 days since they bought in. During which point we’ve convened a panel for the redevelopment or construction of the stadium, replaced our CEO, replaced our DoF, replaced our technical director, completed an organisational analysis, and paid off 120m of revolving credit debt. Just calm down.

The decision is likely already made, what matters now is getting the right appointment in, and how we rebuild in the close season. We’ve seen more positive action in the first 80 days, than we have done in two decades of glazer ownership.

I’m not eleven arguing for Ten Hag to stay. I’ve posted many, many times how he has to be fired and his position is untenable. But let the new football people go about their work, because so far they have acted deliberately and decisively. To say they are dithering and it’s inexcusable is just mouth frothing nonsense from you.
 

Jordan_mufc

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Good grief. You need a lie down. They are clearly being very methodical. It’s been 80 days since they bought in. During which point we’ve convened a panel for the redevelopment or construction of the stadium, replaced our CEO, replaced our DoF, replaced our technical director, completed an organisational analysis, and paid off 120m of revolving credit debt. Just calm down.

The decision is likely already made, what matters now is getting the right appointment in, and how we rebuild in the close season. We’ve seen more positive action in the first 80 days, than we have done in two decades of glazer ownership.

I’m not eleven arguing for Ten Hag to stay. I’ve posted many, many times how he has to be fired and his position is untenable. But let the new football people go about their work, because so far they have acted deliberately and decisively. To say they are dithering and it’s inexcusable is just mouth frothing nonsense from you.
Well said
 

Nytram Shakes

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Nonsense. We've had several months to look at what they are doing, and they are dithering when it comes to the actual big problems with the team.
I mean we currently dont have a CEO or a DOF, but we have the people we want lined up its just taking time to get them in place, thats a much better strategy than just getting anyone in and making rash decisions.
 

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Good grief. You need a lie down. They are clearly being very methodical. It’s been 80 days since they bought in. During which point we’ve convened a panel for the redevelopment or construction of the stadium, replaced our CEO, replaced our DoF, replaced our technical director, completed an organisational analysis, and paid off 120m of revolving credit debt. Just calm down.

The decision is likely already made, what matters now is getting the right appointment in, and how we rebuild in the close season. We’ve seen more positive action in the first 80 days, than we have done in two decades of glazer ownership.

I’m not eleven arguing for Ten Hag to stay. I’ve posted many, many times how he has to be fired and his position is untenable. But let the new football people go about their work, because so far they have acted deliberately and decisively. To say they are dithering and it’s inexcusable is just mouth frothing nonsense from you.
Post deserves a like, saved me having to reply. The amount of babies throwing their toys out of their pram over INEOS already is embarrassing. To say they're dithering is just bollocks.
 
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I'm not sure why you're so hung up on "match day tactics". Going forward, the club decide the style of football they want the team to play. The manager then has to coach that style. It's very simple.
Because as you feign amnesia you tried to claim " I didn't know the role of a TD" when I laughed at people believing the UK media reports that J.W. had told ETH which match tactics to use in the next match, straight after his arrival.
 
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There is the long term strategy granted but I'm sure there is so much low hanging fruit that can be done immediately it's untrue.

In the past few games there have been dozens of examples of the players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing on the field. Also playing kamazaki 4141 has got to stop.

This is why I'm sure ETH is gone FA Cup Final win or not. We all saw the problems in preseason and the first three games of the season. The one thing INEOS will not abide is a stubborn manager. The tactics, the training, the body language of the players all stinks.

One of the biggest roles of the manager is to get the team playing better than the sum of the parts. Noone believes he can do that. The pressers the past few weeks are very reminiscent of previous managers making lame excuses and claiming they have club backing - until the axe comes down.
We shall see. Personally I'm only interested in the work of the new football department. It hasn't even finished being assembled yet. I also believe if they are competent they won't be wasting time changing yet another manager before everything above the manager position is fixed. A reason I suspect people expecting ETH to be sacked before the likes of Ashworth and Berrarda have officially started work and started implementing new stratgic plans and planning are in for mega dissapointment.
 

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We shall see. Personally I'm only interested in the work of the new football department. It hasn't even finished being assembled yet. I also believe if they are competent they won't be wasting time changing yet another manager before everything above the manager position is fixed. A reason I suspect people expecting ETH to be sacked before the likes of Ashworth and Berrarda have officially started work and started implementing new stratgic plans and planning are in for mega dissapointment.
Exactly, give the new football people time to access to formulate a plan, then take action.
 

Remember the geese

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Because as you feign amnesia you tried to claim " I didn't know the role of a TD" when I laughed at people believing the UK media reports that J.W. had told ETH which match tactics to use in the next match, straight after his arrival.
You initially scoffed at the idea of Wilcox having any say over match day tactics. However, it's very apparent that from now on the club will dictate to the manager how they want us to play in terms of style. If you choose to dispute this, you are wrong. You're arguing over something that doesn't require debate.
 

croadyman

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We shall see. Personally I'm only interested in the work of the new football department. It hasn't even finished being assembled yet. I also believe if they are competent they won't be wasting time changing yet another manager before everything above the manager position is fixed. A reason I suspect people expecting ETH to be sacked before the likes of Ashworth and Berrarda have officially started work and started implementing new stratgic plans and planning are in for mega dissapointment.
I am expecting disappointment because still not convinced he is sacked after FA Cup Final
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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I'm not against the entire upper management team being in place before finding the right football manager, but feck me do I hate Ten Hag right now
 
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You initially scoffed at the idea of Wilcox having any say over match day tactics.
I'm STILL scoffing at the idea. He has never picked match day tactics im any job he has had.
However, it's very apparent that from now on the club will dictate to the manager how they want us to play in terms of style. If you choose to dispute this, you are wrong. You're arguing over something that doesn't require debate.
The trouble here is you keep insisting on conflating the club game model with match day tactics. Which is your fault alone. The two are very distinct and seperate things. Wilcox will NEVER determine what tactics a coach will use on match day. Ever.
 

Remember the geese

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Wilcox will NEVER determine what tactics a coach will use on match day. Ever.
Oh so what you've done is create an argument out of thin air that was never one to begin with. Of course Wilcox isn't going to be picking the team! When has anyone ever suggested that? I obviously gave you far too much credit in thinking that you were contesting something that had actually been reported, as opposed to an argument that is a figment of your imagination.
 

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I'm STILL scoffing at the idea. He has never picked match day tactics im any job he has had.

The trouble here is you keep insisting on conflating the club game model with match day tactics. Which is your fault alone. The two are very distinct and seperate things. Wilcox will NEVER determine what tactics a coach will use on match day. Ever.
It’s a fine line between both

for example if they say “we want to see a compact team, playing entertaining attacking football” that’s not focusing on which tactics the coach must use but is the mandate to work to.

however if they say “we want to see a 442 system with 2 line hugging wingers taking their man on and spreading the play”. That’s clearly tactical instructions.

we are not privy to those conversations so nobody can say for sure
 

RedRover

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Actions speak louder than words. All we see is INEOS taking no time at all in sorting out non-football parts of the club and sacking low level minions in the footballing part. Yet we get complete inaction when it comes to the manager, and if the rumours are to be believed they are either think he deserves a contract or are too cheap sack him. They are dithering, and if they truly are disappointed and angry with ETH, then what are they waiting for?
I personally think a decision has been made, one way or the other. If he's going, there'll be discussions behind the scenes with potential successors. Also, if he's going, there's not a great deal of point in getting annoyed at Monday; what amounts to just another terrible result, i.e. more of the same and the reason why the decision has been taken.

Until last week I didn't think there was any point sacking him until the season is over, there being some merit in focusing on getting the structure right. There's an argument for sacking him before the FA Cup final, but that assumes there's someone half competent there to come in and actually improve our chances, rather than just being one of Ten Hag's team.

If they don't replace him in the summer, I think it's a massive own goal and for all the positive steps taken, they're risking a huge false start.

Personally, I think it's inconceivable he stays. He's not getting a contract extension and he's not going to be trusted to bring in players he might want, given his previous recruitment. There seems no point spending money in the summer to risk a new manager coming in next year and wanting a different type of player. Far better for all to move on now.