Javier Hernandez | 2012/13 Performances

[Erictheking7]

What's complicating matters is the goldfish memories of prats like Theon who seem to think that having a goal-scoring midfielder who likes to play in advanced areas of the pitch somehow means we can't accomodate four strikers in our squad.

We've already had at least one thread comparing our four strikers with those we had in our treble-winning squad. Kind of weird that people seem to forget that we also had a 24 year-old converted striker playing as an attacking midfielder at the time. Someone who occupied the exact same areas of the pitch that Kagawa will most likely play in this season. This memory lapse is all the more unforgivable because he's still in our fecking squad today!

At times that season when chasing games we operated with 3 strikers and Scholes in his advanced AM position. Theres no reason why all 4 strikers and Kagawa won't get enough games in the coming season if their form is good enough.

 

[Devilton]

At times that season when chasing games we operated with 3 strikers and Scholes in his advanced AM position. Theres no reason why all 4 strikers and Kagawa won't get enough games in the coming season if their form is good enough.

Didn't we also have a player called Roy Keane back then?

I know he was a bit ordinary and like...but I figure that should get thrown in the discussion of why past teams did so well and why our current team might not get the same results using the same formations.

 

[Revan]

I doubt that it will be a problem with time for all our 8 attacking players (4 strikers, 3 wingers and Kagawa). If we reach 55 games a season (which is likely), that mean that there could be 220 spots for these 4 positions up front, and together with sub appearences there would be about 300 spots which I think if managed well will be enough for all players. And that without adding the possibility of long time injuries, Valencia at RB, Kagawa as part of midfield 3 and extreme formations with a lot of attackers.

So knowing this, and Chicha's personality I doubt that he wants to leave.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

At times that season when chasing games we operated with 3 strikers and Scholes in his advanced AM position. Theres no reason why all 4 strikers and Kagawa won't get enough games in the coming season if their form is good enough.

Exactly.

It's not as though we have to play every game with two strikers anyway, just the vast majority.

There will obviously be games in which that sort of line-up might leave us a bit open, in which case we stick an extra body in midfield and take out one of the strikers. I mean, it's not as though we haven't done exactly that for the last 5 or 6 fecking years. People have such short memories on here. It's astonishing.

 

[Devilton]

Bottom line is going into a season with just Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez as our top three strikers would have been madness. One long term injury to Rooney and the season would get fecked as neither Welbeck or Hernandez is a genuine #1 striker (yet).

SAF knows we need goals and a few more at the end of last season would have meant we retained the title. This idea that Hernandez will suffer because of RVP is ridiculous. With Berbs on his way out we need someone of equal quality to Rooney. RVP is that man. The other strikers will just have to lift their game to break into the squad, and the team as a whole will benefit from that.

PS. And yes...we still do need a fecking midfielder and left back but that doesn't change the fact that RVP to united is a good thing.

 

[Sarni]

Funny how £25m was deemed not enough to lure him away from Manchester only a year ago when Real were supposed to be keen on him and now people think he's done here. It's a similar case as with Cleverley - overrated beyond belief at the beginning, underrated to the same extent only a year later.

He'll be an impact sub most of the time. He has the ability to change a game with one goal at any point, it'll be very useful from the bench - I reckon he'll be better as a substitute than Welbeck.

 

[Ash_G]

Will be interesting to see what happens with him. I don't think Fergie will want to freeze him out but at the same time I'm struggling to think where he will get significant time. Although I think he could be a great impact player, with Welbeck needing games I would expect him to get the nod the majority of the time and although Fergie might try Hernandez wide, I don't think he'll have much success there.

 

[Devilton]

Hernandez out wide will fail. He's very average dribbling with the ball and almost never beats the man. Hernandez is best used as an impact sub because he has the unteachable knack of finding a goal when the team needs it.

I can't see him getting many full 90 minutes (and if he does it will be in the cup runs).

 

[Cina]

What's complicating matters is the goldfish memories of prats like Theon who seem to think that having a goal-scoring midfielder who likes to play in advanced areas of the pitch somehow means we can't accomodate four strikers in our squad.

We've already had at least one thread comparing our four strikers with those we had in our treble-winning squad. Kind of weird that people seem to forget that we also had a 24 year-old converted striker playing as an attacking midfielder at the time. Someone who occupied the exact same areas of the pitch that Kagawa will most likely play in this season. This memory lapse is all the more unforgivable because he's still in our fecking squad today!

Sir Alex did just basically say Shinji was one of our 'striking options', so you have to look at it in terms of us having 5 players who can play up front now, and that's discounting Berbatov. I'm sure we'll fit them in.

I just don't get the idea of people saying that because Shinji isn't actually a 'forward' that he doesn't have anything to do with our striking options, which is something people on here have done.

 

[gza the genius]

Either way someone is getting left out. If we play two strikers with Kagawa as a center mid then most likely Anderson, Cleverley, and Scholes are getting left out. Most of the people arguing against us singing another center midfielder site those players missing out as the reason why. If we play Kagawa behind one striker then the other 3 strikers are sitting the bench. I have a feeling Chicharito won't be seeing a whole lot of playing time this year.

 

[Ramshock]

Either way someone is getting left out. If we play two strikers with Kagawa as a center mid then most likely Anderson, Cleverley, and Scholes are getting left out. Most of the people arguing against us singing another center midfielder site those players missing out as the reason why. If we play Kagawa behind one striker then the other 3 strikers are sitting the bench. I have a feeling Chicharito won't be seeing a whole lot of playing time this year.

for feck sake I give up!

 

[Devilton]

Either way someone is getting left out. If we play two strikers with Kagawa as a center mid then most likely Anderson, Cleverley, and Scholes are getting left out. Most of the people arguing against us singing another center midfielder site those players missing out as the reason why. If we play Kagawa behind one striker then the other 3 strikers are sitting the bench. I have a feeling Chicharito won't be seeing a whole lot of playing time this year.

Why not? Someone's got to lead the line in the Carling Cup and group stages of the champions league. I bet you he gets a minimum of 30 appearances, most of them from the subs bench perhaps, but he'll definitely get his chance to prove his worth. Hernandez will be fine. I expect he knows he's got to stake his claim for a spot given last seasons form.

 

[OGkush]

Sir Alex did just basically say Shinji was one of our 'striking options', so you have to look at it in terms of us having 5 players who can play up front now, and that's discounting Berbatov. I'm sure we'll fit them in.

I just don't get the idea of people saying that because Shinji isn't actually a 'forward' that he doesn't have anything to do with our striking options, which is something people on here have done.

this baffles me as well, it's pretty clear what his best and preffered position is, or atleast has been for the past 2 seasons

 

[OGkush]

Javier Hernandez’s representative, Eduardo Hernández, has told El Universal in Mexico that the stories saying he’s handed in a transfer request are merely press fantasy with nothing to them “They are pure press speculation [stories about an exit]. The addition of Van Persie is to reinforce the attack.
“There will be increased competition within that position and Javier is a professional, and knows he will have to face that situation.”

It’s something which the player himself has covered recently when he said he was willing to take up whatever role Sir Alex Ferguson had in mind for him, whether that be playing full games or coming on as an impact substitute.

Eduardo Hernández went on to say that the only way ‘Chicharito’ would be leaving Manchester United is if the club tell him he’s no longer wanted and the representative insists that Manchester United have been honourable with them and he sees no problems.

That clears up the rumours of a transfer request and a move to Arsenal.

Here's the link: http://mixturesport.com/football-ne...anchester-united-transfer-request-claims.html

I'm not saying this is the most reliable of sources (far from that), but it definetely makes sense.

 

[ha_rooney]

Player doesn't want to leave, I doubt we'd sell him - good his agent has stopped the rubbish speculation.

 

[MrMarcello]

more unlucky than gash.

Well he should have buried that one header he sent wayward but Howard denied him on an incredible save.

 

[MrMarcello]

Didn't Nicky Butt start more matches than Scholes in 1998-99?

 

[Theon]

What's complicating matters is the goldfish memories of prats like Theon who seem to think that having a goal-scoring midfielder who likes to play in advanced areas of the pitch somehow means we can't accomodate four strikers in our squad.

Or prats like you who clearly have no idea what his position is? You genuinely need to find a clue ffs, because you are talking complete shit, he's nothing at all like Scholes.

Firstly, I've never said he was a striker, he's a No 10/off the striker/in the hole/ whatever the feck you wanna call it, which only requires one striker to play with him, e.g. Ozil Madrid, Muller Bayern Munich, Mata Chelsea, Shinji Dortmund, VDV Spurs etc. You seem like a smart bloke so I know you're deliberately just being difficult in pretending not to understand this, quite why I have no idea.

Secondly, Fergie today said 'In 1999 I had Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, the four best strikers in Europe. We are going towards that now with Javier Hernandez, Wayne Rooney, Robin, Danny Welbeck and Shinji Kagawa.'

So is Fergie wrong too?

Seems like you're the only one who has realised he's a centre mid, everybody else must be wrong though.

Thirdly, you said before we 'needed' to sign Van Persie, which is just still a laughable suggestion given how good our attack is, but you've once again tried to dodge the question I asked you. Who are all these teams that play one up top with 4 senior strikers? There must be loads of teams, considering how ridiculous the suggestion of going into the season with 3 is, so presumably you will be making quite a large list?

Out of the teams I listed before the number of senior strikers would be, Madrid have two, Chelsea have one, Spurs have three, Bayern have two, Dortmund have two. How will they cope?

We have three who could all come in and play at a high standard, all three are better than Spur's for example, arguably currently as good as Torres, maybe Chich is slightly behind him but he's our third choice and Torres is their first. Point is we could have managed, easily. As can all these other clubs.

Edit - forgot Saha has left on a free, so Spurs just have Ade and Defoe.

 

[An Irish Red]

Or prats like you who clearly have no idea what his position is? You genuinely need to find a clue ffs, because you are talking complete shit, he's nothing at all like Scholes.

Firstly, I've never said he was a striker, he's a No 10/off the striker/in the hole/ whatever the feck you wanna call it.

That's exactly what Scholes used to be though.

 

[Theon]

That's exactly what Scholes used to be though.

Nahh nothing like Kagawa, he could actually play centre mid and it was fine, he got forward but he could still play in the middle, e.g. the 97/98 season. When Veron came he was obviously pushing up for a bit, but he could still actually play in midfield, whereas Kagawa has never shown that.

 

[Rams]

Nahh nothing like Kagawa, he could actually play centre mid and it was fine, he got forward but he could still play in the middle, e.g. the 97/98 season. When Veron came he was obviously pushing up for a bit, but he could still actually play in midfield, whereas Kagawa has never shown that.

Bollocks. Scholes played attacking midfileder/2nd striker role. Same as Kagawa. Wasn't till much later in his career he started sitting in front of the back four.

 

[Theon]

Bollocks. Scholes played attacking midfileder/2nd striker role. Same as Kagawa. Wasn't till much later in his career he started sitting in front of the back four.

It's not bollocks at all when Keane was injured for the season in 98 he played there all the time.

 

[Garethw]

Nahh nothing like Kagawa, he could actually play centre mid and it was fine, he got forward but he could still play in the middle, e.g. the 97/98 season. When Veron came he was obviously pushing up for a bit, but he could still actually play in midfield, whereas Kagawa has never shown that.

Scholes was a forward (number 10 style) when he broke into the United team. He played up top with Cantona at times.

He didn't properly start playing as a CM until about 1998 (I think).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, he was able to adapt to a different role. You think Kagawa can't?

@ Theon

 

[Theon]

Yeah, he was able to adapt to a different role. You think Kagawa can't?

I think theres nothing so far that indicates he can, you're just guessing. Plus eventually when we still used Scholes there with just one centre mid, it was mostly Roy Keane.

Plus more teams play three in the middle nowadays, whereas 4-4-2 used to be the standard formation. You go up against three in the middle with Carrick and Kagawa and we will get completely overrun.

But anyway, point is you're just making this assumption based on feck all. It would be like saying Mata should play next to Mikel in a 4-4-2 - not gonna happen.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Wouldn't surprise me if we saw Kagawa drifting in from the left wing, similar to what he does for Japan where Honda plays behind the lead striker.

 

[Theon]

Wouldn't surprise me if we saw Kagawa drifting in from the left wing, similar to what he does for Japan where Honda plays behind the lead striker.

Ayeee, spot on. Said the exact same thing in the 'predict the line up thread'.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think theres nothing so far that indicates he can, you're just guessing. Plus eventually when we still used Scholes there with just one centre mid, it was mostly Roy Keane.

Plus more teams play three in the middle nowadays, whereas 4-4-2 used to be the standard formation. You go up against three in the middle with Carrick and Kagawa and we will get completely overrun.

But anyway, point is you're just making this assumption based on feck all. It would be like saying Mata should play next to Mikel in a 4-4-2 - not gonna happen.

If Chelsea had a second striker who's as intelligent and works as hard as Rooney, it could.

 

[Rams]

Scholes did not sit in front of the back 4 as he does nowadays in 1998. Butt might have, so might have PhilNev. Scholes did not, he played much further up field in those days. Like Kagawa.

 

[Theon]

Maybe it could some times, in fact it definitely could and I think it's ridiculous how conservative teams line up nowadays compared to United.

But it wouldn't work in all the games by any stretch and any half decent three they came up with would just out work them. You need a balance and a team of two strikers, two wingers and an attacking midfielder, with just Carrick sitting in the middle, is not balanced. Imagine going up against Chelsea for example, or another team that are good in the middle like City obviously, or internationally someone like Bilbao again. It just wouldn't work.

 

[Theon]

Scholes did not sit in front of the back 4 as he does nowadays in 1998. Butt might have, so might have PhilNev. Scholes did not, he played much further up field in those days. Like Kagawa.

Okay . He was like Kagawa in 98.

No one is saying he sat in front of the back four, no need to make things up. He played a midfield role though, not off the striker like he used to with Cantona. Seriously there's no debate he went deeper when Keane got injured for the season.

He didn't just sit in front of the back four, but he didn't play as a deep lying striker.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Maybe it could some times, in fact it definitely could and I think it's ridiculous how conservative teams line up nowadays compared to United.

But it wouldn't work in all the games by any stretch and any half decent three they came up with would just out work them. You need a balance and a team of two strikers, two wingers and an attacking midfielder, with just Carrick sitting in the middle, is not balanced. Imagine going up against Chelsea for example, or another team that are good in the middle like City obviously, or internationally someone like Bilbao again. It just wouldn't work.

Absolutely. There's 10, 15, maybe even 20 games a season where we'd need the extra man in midfield. Or two CMs more used to the role then Kagawa (the former option being my preference). How many games to we play in a season though? 50?

 

[Rams]

Okay . He was like Kagawa in 98.

No one is saying he sat in front of the back four, no need to make things up. He played a midfield role though, not off the striker like he used to with Cantona. Seriously there's no debate he went deeper when Keane got injured for the season.

He didn't just sit in front of the back four, but he didn't play as a deep lying striker.

Yes, like Kagawa has done for Dortmund. Playing 2nd striker / attacking midfielder role. Sort of a similar role as Scholes did in 98, even if the players necessarily aren't. Check your fecking posts you wrote yourself in the previous page.

 

[Theon]

Yes, like Kagawa has done for Dortmund. Playing 2nd striker / attacking midfielder role. Sort of a similar role as Scholes did in 98, even if the players necessarily aren't. Check your fecking posts you wrote yourself in the previous page.

What are you not fecking getting?

He didn't play the 2nd striker role in 98.

 

[Theon]

Take a player like Lampard in his peak, he got forward but he wasn't a fecking second striker was he? Same as Scholes in 98, he moved to the middle instead of partnering Cantona.

Whereas players like Mata, Silva, Ozil and Kagawa were playing the second striker/No 10 role.

 

[204Red]

What are you not fecking getting?

He didn't play the 2nd striker role in 98.

more like scholes in 2003 with RVN as the lone striker

 

[Theon]

more like scholes in 2003 with RVN as the lone striker

Yeah exactly, when Veron came.

Even internationally in 98 he sometimes came deeper, playing behind both Shearer and Owen, with Ince the deeper sitting CM.

 

[Rams]

What are you not fecking getting?

He didn't play the 2nd striker role in 98.

he did, as he did attacking midfielder. Of all the players the late 90's which United player played the most similar roles as Kagawa has at Dortmund?

 

[Theon]

he did, as he did attacking midfielder. Of all the players the late 90's which United player played the most similar roles as Kagawa has at Dortmund?

Hmm, Scholes when he played further forward. Or maybe even Cantona himself? Completely different players obviously, but both dropped off, technical, great vision etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Scholes could play that role, just that he could also play Centre mid. He could and did do both, so it's different to Kagawa currently.

 

[Rams]

Hmm, Scholes when he played further forward. Or maybe even Cantona himself? Completely different players obviously, but both dropped off, technical, great vision etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Scholes could play that role, just that he could also play Centre mid. He could and did do both, so it's different to Kagawa currently.

Obviously Dortmund compared to United in those days play different formations. But Kagawa plays more deep than you may think. Dortmund play the high pressure game like Barca, but if they did have to drop back Kagawa would often drop back in to CM. The point is that both Kagawa and a young Scholes are similar.