[Shamwow]

Lingard scores one goal and suddenly the tables turn. Read 99 per cent of the comments (including my own, admittedly) from before the fa cup final and you'll arguably get a better impression of how people felt about him this season.

He went 15 games without a goal or an assist prior to the final and people were calling him Championship material. He was a first team, attacking player who contributed next to nothing in the most maligned offensive setup our team has seen for generations. For months on end he provided little but childish bus videos.

Yes he scored a great goal in the final but the amount of minutes he got on the pitch was unwarranted IMO.

I'm sure he'll care a great deal what I think, but Jesse if you're reading this you can get back in my good books if you stop dabbing and acting like a teenage buffoon.

He got a deserved chance in the final after a very promising debut season and scored an amazing goal when we were down to 10 men. 'nuff said!

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Pereira; I would like to see him as Mourinho 's apocalypse

What do you mean by this? As Mourniho's main man?

I think Jose will have a lot to do just to play the youth who are already somewhat established in the first team. Pereira will really need to impress him during pre-season to get a sniff in.

 

[stevoc]

IIRC he played there on about 4 occasions full game, think he was great against Man city there and brilliant the game after and anonymous the last time he played there but all the players were shit and we didnt rotate at all.. think it's his best position still, he had his best games for u21 England there. He's inconsitent dribbler from the wing and perhaps lacks a bit on top speed and that doesn't really matter from the middle. Hope he gets a chance or two there under Mourinho, if he tries Wayne there, Lingard deserves a chance as well as already offer more than rooney and could be a good option there for a more defensive setup

In the centre may be his best position but it's not the best position for United to play him in simply because he's not good enough and never will be to focus a side around. The last few times he's played there he was completely ineffectual.

Also we will have to disagree on his performance levels, he's had some good games maybe even some very good ones but he's never been brilliant.

I agree though he's not a winger which i think will ultimately lead to him moving on.

 

[stevoc]

Januzaj had a good first year under Moyes. Then he vanished. We should also take into account that he dives when in a difficult situation and the referees didn 't see that in his first year.
Diving when thing are difficult means a lot to me.

Depay is the most stressed winger we 've seen in years. It 's a matter of bad management.
Pereira; I would like to see him as Mourinho 's apocalypse

He was excellent on the left wing under Moyes, i think thats his best position.

But theres a reason he vanished Van Gaal came in and played 252 with wing backs and he barely got a look in his proper position, by the time we switched back to a formation with wingers he only gave him the odd chance on the right. Then he loaned him to Borussia at the start of this season he came back in January and only had like 2-3 5-10 minute sub appearances one of them at LB against Southampton.

Under those circumstances it's no wonder he hasn't kicked on. Van Gaal just didn't fancy him from the get go.

 

[Verminator]

Very generous to Januzaj there.
His performance since Moyes left have not just been poor. They have been detrimental to the team, in how poor he has been.

 

[caisenma]

He got a deserved chance in the final after a very promising debut season and scored an amazing goal when we were down to 10 men. 'nuff said!

That doesn't change what I said. Your definition of a very promising debut season is different from mine I suppose... the guy will be 24 later this year.

 

[caisenma]

Very generous to Januzaj there.
His performance since Moyes left have not just been poor. They have been detrimental to the team, in how poor he has been.

That is complete nonsense. In the two years under LVG he was largely innefective in his limited opportunities but he never hurt the team to the extent that Memphis did.

 

[Verminator]

That is complete nonsense. In the two years under LVG he was largely innefective in his limited opportunities but he never hurt the team to the extent that Memphis did.

You think Lingard has been shit, but you think Januzaj should be cut some slack?
Then you have a pop at Memphis, who has done more in a year than Adnan has in two, arguably three years.

Coming from you, I will accept your criticism with pride.

 

[Shamwow]

That doesn't change what I said. Your definition of a very promising debut season is different from mine I suppose... the guy will be 24 later this year.

You define debut season depending on age? That's silly. I define it as his first season in the senior team.

 

[Shamwow]

Very generous to Januzaj there.
His performance since Moyes left have not just been poor. They have been detrimental to the team, in how poor he has been.

I don't want to get into Januzaj bashing too much because I like him too and hope he can turn it round but he faded before LVG even arrived.

 

[stevoc]

Very generous to Januzaj there.
His performance since Moyes left have not just been poor. They have been detrimental to the team, in how poor he has been.

How so?

Which part do you disagree with?

Everyone pretty much agrees he was very good under Moyes, when he played on the left wing.

And almost everyone agrees that he was poor under LVG when played anywhere but the left wing. Left wing back, right wing, no.10, up front even left back.

It's not rocket science, if Van Gaal had given him a run of games on the left wing he likely would have performed well there but he never got that chance. A common theme among creative players who take risks under Van Gaal.

 

[stevoc]

You define debut season depending on age? That's silly. I define it as his first season in the senior team.

This season isn't really Lingards first in senior football though. He's played the last two seasons in the championship which is obviously considered senior football also.

This is his first season in top flight football granted.

 

[Shamwow]

This season isn't really Lingards first in senior football though. He's played the last two seasons in the championship which is obviously considered senior football also.

This is his first season in top flight football granted.

All our reserve players have played senior football in some form. This is his debut season for our senior team though is it not?

 

[Verminator]

How so?

Which part do you disagree with?

Everyone pretty much agrees he was very good under Moyes, when he played on the left wing.

And almost everyone agrees that he was poor under LVG when played anywhere but the left wing. Left wing back, right wing, no.10, up front even left back.

It's not rocket science, if Van Gaal had given him a run of games on the left wing he likely would have performed well there but he never got that chance. A common theme among creative players who take risks under Van Gaal.

I would love Januzaj to succeed here, as I do with all graduates, but when he has been given the opportunity (post debut season), he has been woeful. Not just failing to make notable contributions, but giving up possession cheaply and not pulling his weight defensively.
Whatever went on at BVB, he obviously didn't do enough to claim a place there either. That can't be laid at Louis' door, can it?

edit: Back to Jesse.
I hope he matures over the summer, and shakes off the 'apprentice' vibe he has been giving off. Provided of course, he gets his chances under Jose.
Reflecting on not making the Euros, might help in that regard.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I never understood the Januzaj hype. Lingard.has.been better, still not.good.enough

 

[dead joe]

I never understood the Januzaj hype. Lingard.has.been better, still not.good.enough

Januzaj was brilliant under Moyes, he carried the team at times. Lingard has had some good games, but he hasn't done that yet.

 

[Verminator]

An FA cup winning performance for a team with 10 men not good enough?
Januzaj must be some player!

 

[prath92]

Januzaj was brilliant under Moyes, he carried the team at times. Lingard has had some good games, but he hasn't done that yet.

He was invisible in the big games that season. He scored vs Sunderland Fulham Newcastle and all which isn't anything. Lingard scored vs Chelsea assisted vs Arsenal and scored a winner in an FA cup final.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He was invisible in the big games that season. He scored vs Sunderland Fulham Newcastle and all which isn't anything. Lingard scored vs Chelsea assisted vs Arsenal and scored a winner in an FA cup final.

Januzaj just has more flair, and his little flicks, and dribbling are fun to watch. Lingard is a 100x more effective player and with his workrate more likely to make it at the top level, fans often struggle to see those things.

 

[caisenma]

You think Lingard has been shit, but you think Januzaj should be cut some slack?
Then you have a pop at Memphis, who has done more in a year than Adnan has in two, arguably three years.

Coming from you, I will accept your criticism with pride.

holy god... these are two, perhaps three separate issues that you're taking a lot of liberties in your reasoning.

1. i believe, like anyone else who posts here, that i'm somewhat reasonable. while i'd like januzaj to make it, i don't really care if he doesn't. he's not bigger than the team, he's a piece of it and if his attitude/his skillset isn't at a level suitable enough for united, then he needs to go. i trust mourinho to get it right, even if it means januzaj is sold before he even kicks another ball for us. i'm not sure how much clearer i can be on this. however, my point with adnan is that he didn't get anywhere near enough opportunities under LVG to make the claim that he's suddenly rubbish.

2. i never said lingard is shit, i've said that that the amount of minutes/opportunities/starts he's been given is disproportional to the actual quality he's displayed. i've used the part where he had 15 matches before the fa cup final where he was anonymous and provided absolutely nothing in the form of offence (0 goals, 0 assits) as evidence of this. my argument is not that he shouldn't be a united player, it's that he did not deserve the amount of minutes he received. considering the near universal agreement of this statement in this thread prior to his goal in the FA cup final, i don't think my assessment is different than the majority of folks who post here.

3. depay has been given a lot of opportunities to succeed this season, and his abject displays have called into question whether he's even putting in the required effort. that issue has come up time and time again, this is not a new accusation i made. once again, he's played far, far more than januzaj and to somehow adequately compare their most recent season is pointless.

 

[prath92]

Januzaj just has more flair, and his little flicks, and dribbling are fun to watch. Lingard is a 100x more effective player and with his workrate more likely to make it at the top level, fans often struggle to see those things.

Yeah. Januzaj has the better talent undoubtedly but most managers would prefer a reliable player over a more talented inconsistent player. Which is why they sold mata and kept Oscar even though mata is more talented than him.

 

[caisenma]

Januzaj just has more flair, and his little flicks, and dribbling are fun to watch. Lingard is a 100x more effective player and with his workrate more likely to make it at the top level, fans often struggle to see those things.

100x more effective player, eh?

your criticisms of januzaj could certainly be considered fair, but then it is at least equally so to suggest that lingard is the polar opposite and goes missing in the majority of games he plays. i believe he's been labelled "cowardly" more than a few times here too.

 

[dead joe]

He was invisible in the big games that season. He scored vs Sunderland Fulham Newcastle and all which isn't anything. Lingard scored vs Chelsea assisted vs Arsenal and scored a winner in an FA cup final.

Januzaj just has more flair, and his little flicks, and dribbling are fun to watch. Lingard is a 100x more effective player and with his workrate more likely to make it at the top level, fans often struggle to see those things.

I'm not dismissing Lingard here, or arguing that Januzaj should start in his place. I agree that Lingard's workrate and composure are great assets, and that he probably deserves to start ahead of Adnan. But i don't think it's fair to dismiss Januzaj's role that year either, every United player was looking to pass the ball to him, expecting him to make something happen. He was a technical leader for us. Lingard has never been that, is all i'm saying. But he has other qualities. I don't see the point in bashing either one of them to make the other look good.

 

[Sammyjunn]

100x more effective player, eh?

your criticisms of januzaj could certainly be considered fair, but then it is at least equally so to suggest that lingard is the polar opposite and goes missing in the majority of games he plays. i believe he's been labelled "cowardly" more than a few times here too.

Lingard cowardly, he's always attacking driven gives his all for the team, and thinks as a team player, even if he isnt havin his best game he still has his use and is still very much involved in our play. Not that he does good things with the ball at all times.

 

[Verminator]

holy god... these are two, perhaps three separate issues that you're taking a lot of liberties in your reasoning.

1. i believe, like anyone else who posts here, that i'm somewhat reasonable. while i'd like januzaj to make it, i don't really care if he doesn't. he's not bigger than the team, he's a piece of it and if his attitude/his skillset isn't at a level suitable enough for united, then he needs to go. i trust mourinho to get it right, even if it means januzaj is sold before he even kicks another ball for us. i'm not sure how much clearer i can be on this. however, my point with adnan is that he didn't get anywhere near enough opportunities under LVG to make the claim that he's suddenly rubbish.

2. i never said lingard is shit, i've said that that the amount of minutes/opportunities/starts he's been given is disproportional to the actual quality he's displayed. i've used the part where he had 15 matches before the fa cup final where he was anonymous and provided absolutely nothing in the form of offence (0 goals, 0 assits) as evidence of this. my argument is not that he shouldn't be a united player, it's that he did not deserve the amount of minutes he received. considering the near universal agreement of this statement in this thread prior to his goal in the FA cup final, i don't think my assessment is different than the majority of folks who post here.

3. depay has been given a lot of opportunities to succeed this season, and his abject displays have called into question whether he's even putting in the required effort. that issue has come up time and time again, this is not a new accusation i made. once again, he's played far, far more than januzaj and to somehow adequately compare their most recent season is pointless.

1 Januzaj has had chances. If a player is that poor that it becomes a risk to play them, you really have to pick a moment to play them that doesn't cost the team.

2. Stats are not the only way to judge a player. We were much more fluid in attack, with Lingard in the team. He gives options and passes and moves well. He was also robbed of some assists by poor finishing. (One assist went to Fellaini when he fecked up and someone else scored)
3. Depay has been really disappointing, but his impact on matches early in the season, compares equally, if not favourably to the sum total of Januzaj's past three years. If he has still produced nothing more in the next two years, then he will have matched Adnan's contributions. Surely he deserves the opportunity of two more years before we decide that Adnan is better.
Though I doubt he will be afforded that time. (And I doubt he should be.)

 

[Sammyjunn]

Yeah. Januzaj has the better talent undoubtedly but most managers would prefer a reliable player over a more talented inconsistent player. Which is why they sold mata and kept Oscar even though mata is more talented than him.

This pretty much, although I think Oscar too showed some genuine promise during "MaCaZar".

 

[Sammyjunn]

I'm not dismissing Lingard here, or arguing that Januzaj should start in his place. I agree that Lingard's workrate and composure are great assets, and that he probably deserves to start ahead of Adnan. But i don't think it's fair to dismiss Januzaj's role that year either, every United player was looking to pass the ball to him, expecting him to make something happen. He was a technical leader for us. Lingard has never been that, is all i'm saying. But he has other qualities. I don't see the point in bashing either one of them to make the other look good.

Yeah he was good, but what did he really produce in the end?

 

[dead joe]

Yeah he was good, but what did he really produce in the end?

More than any other player in the team, which was still not a lot admittedly. But still.

 

[Sammyjunn]

More than any other player in the team, which was still not a lot admittedly. But still.

He didnt do more than Welbeck, or Rooney still. Actually even RvP did more as well. Lingard has produced more in one season than Januzaj has had in his last three.

 

[dead joe]

He didnt do more than Welbeck, or Rooney still. Actually even RvP did more as well. Lingard has produced more in one season than Januzaj has had in his last three.

Fair enough. As i said, i'm not overlooking Lingard's contribution here, just underlying the leading influence Januzaj has had when trusted in his best position, which is not that common for a youngster. Rashford has showed that as well, but Lingard, while good, has never been that kind of focal point. He doesn't need to be though, as long as he contributes.

 

[stevoc]

All our reserve players have played senior football in some form. This is his debut season for our senior team though is it not?

Well technically mate yes but by the same logic 2012-13 was Van Persie's debut season for our senior team. Extreme example i know but the point stands.

This is not Lingards first season at senior level, it's his third. Many times in this thread people will make a comment saying he's not exactly a youngster at 23/24 or he should be further along in his development at his age yadda yadda or something similar.

And while i'm not saying whether or not i agree with all that, quite often people will counter those posts with well this is only his first season at senior level, when in fact it isn't.

 

[stevoc]

I would love Januzaj to succeed here, as I do with all graduates, but when he has been given the opportunity (post debut season), he has been woeful. Not just failing to make notable contributions, but giving up possession cheaply and not pulling his weight defensively.
Whatever went on at BVB, he obviously didn't do enough to claim a place there either. That can't be laid at Louis' door, can it?

Promising young teenage player in having a poor second season shocker.

He was played out of position, didn't play well was dropped confidence drops. Doesn't play again for another few games given another chance again out of position, perhaps even in a different position this time. Again doesn't set the world alight, dropped confidence falls further. Do you see where i'm going here mate?

Last season should have been the season where LVG really nurtured Januzaj to see if all that potential could be turned into a top player. But instead he shipped him out on loan and then froze him out of the first team on his return.

 

[Verminator]

Winners grab the bull by the horns, they don't wallow in self-pity and sulk. Not saying he has, but he certainly hasn't done a good job of forcing his way into two different teams.

 

[m1y2]

Promising young teenage player in having a poor second season shocker.

He was played out of position, didn't play well was dropped confidence drops. Doesn't play again for another few games given another chance again out of position, perhaps even in a different position this time. Again doesn't set the world alight, dropped confidence falls further. Do you see where i'm going here mate?

Last season should have been the season where LVG really nurtured Januzaj to see if all that potential could be turned into a top player. But instead he shipped him out on loan and then froze him out of the first team on his return.

yeah I wonder what was the last time he got 90 minutes as a winger, probably was never under van Gaal, instead he tried to play him as an striker no10 or even b2b midfielder if he played him but he rather loaned him out anyway or didnt play him at all... very sad about adnan's development he was a bit unlucky with the loan and injuries but he didnt get a proper chance to prove himself, like that fluke boy from PSV who was picked numerous times in a row despite being bloody awful...

 

[stevoc]

Winners grab the bull by the horns, they don't wallow in self-pity and sulk. Not saying he has, but he certainly hasn't done a good job of forcing his way into two different teams.

To be fair mate thats a one size fits all cliche that has been proven to be bullshit throughout history.

Plenty of great players have had difficult seasons early in their careers and had problems 'forcing' their way into teams. How did Henry do in Italy being played out of position, did he grab the bull by the horns?

Just one example of many over the years. Theres a good player in Januzaj he just needs the right manager to show faith in him and give him a run in his proper position, that man was obviously not Van Gaal who favours hard working risk averse players.

 

[stevoc]

yeah I wonder what was the last time he got 90 minutes as a winger, probably was never under van Gaal, instead he tried to play him as an striker no10 or even b2b midfielder if he played him but he rather loaned him out anyway or didnt play him at all... very sad about adnan's development he was a bit unlucky with the loan and injuries but he didnt get a proper chance to prove himself, like that fluke boy from PSV who was picked numerous times in a row despite being bloody awful...

Probably never is right mate, certainly not on the left anyway. Van Gaals treatment of him has been pathetic to be honest, loaned out to sit on Dortmunds bench. Returns is brought on at fecking left back vs Southampton for 5-10 minutes and then isn't seen again until May for another 10 minute run around.

 

[Verminator]

To be fair mate thats a one size fits all cliche that has been proven to be bullshit throughout history.

Plenty of great players have had difficult seasons early in their careers and had problems 'forcing' their way into teams. How did Henry do in Italy being played out of position, did he grab the bull by the horns?

Just one example of many over the years. Theres a good player in Januzaj he just needs the right manager to show faith in him and give him a run in his proper position, that man was obviously not Van Gaal who favours hard working risk averse players.

I assure you there are many more examples of bright young things that fade into obscurity.

 

[stevoc]

I assure you there are many more examples of bright young things that fade into obscurity.

Obviously but that doesn't mean Januzaj has to be one of them. Lets hope Jose gives the kid a proper run in the team in his proper position to prove himself before writing him off.

 

[Raoul]

To be fair mate thats a one size fits all cliche that has been proven to be bullshit throughout history.

Plenty of great players have had difficult seasons early in their careers and had problems 'forcing' their way into teams. How did Henry do in Italy being played out of position, did he grab the bull by the horns?

Just one example of many over the years. Theres a good player in Januzaj he just needs the right manager to show faith in him and give him a run in his proper position, that man was obviously not Van Gaal who favours hard working risk averse players.

A more plausible explanation is that Januzaj may not have the work ethic or football brain required to complement his natural talent. He wouldn't be the first in that category and lets face it, if he can't make it under LvG, who gave about half a dozen other youth players a chance, then he almost certainly won't under Mourinho.

 

[stevoc]

A more plausible explanation is that Januzaj may not have the work ethic or football brain required to complement his natural talent. He wouldn't be the first in that category and lets face it, if he can't make it under LvG, who gave about half a dozen other youth players a chance, then he almost certainly won't under Mourinho.

He gives certain youth players a chance yes but not all. Look at andreas pereira another promising youngster given 1-2 appearances a few 10 minute cameos and then frozen out.

As i said earlier under LVG Januzaj as far as i know didn't get one full match in the position where he played so well for us under Moyes left wing.

And i agree i think he will find it just as difficult if not more so under Mourinho, but lets hope if Jose does play him that he is intelligent enough to recognize that Januzaj isn't a LB, or a right wing back, or a midfielder or a striker and just gives the guy a run on the left wing to see what he can do.