[Raoul]

Good stretch where abouts @Raoul? Lingard has 84 premier league starts and 13 goals in his career as a United attacker. That’s dreadful if we are being honest. So a goal return if one goal in every seven games. This season he scored goals against who? Let’s get real he’s not the first needed upgraded on but he’s certainly one of them. Very average player imo.

I'm not touting Lingard as a world beater, but he is our most improved player who had a very good stretch for most of the season (Jesse Messi time), and he's been just as effective if not more than the likes of Pogba, Rashford, and Martial. So in terms of making an argument against Lingard - one would first have to deal with the fact that the others I mentioned weren't any better. 13 goals from a so called squad player during a year when our attack was anemic at best, is a very good contribution.

 

[Lawman]

I'm not touting Lingard as a world beater, but he is our most improved player who had a very good stretch for most of the season (Jesse Messi time), and he's been just as effective if not more than the likes of Pogba, Rashford, and Martial. So in terms of making an argument against Lingard - one would first have to deal with the fact that the others I mentioned weren't any better. 13 goals from a so called squad player during a year when our attack was anemic at best, is a very good contribution.

An attack in which he continues to contribute to making us very average indeed. He’s better coming from deeper as he has a good engine in him and this has been useful as we lack this elsewhere in the team. But his passing is meh he doesn’t always take care of the ball. Often just falls over or gives the ball away cheaply. I’ve saw Cleverley take more responsibility in games here than Jesse. His shooting is shit he has very little composure but yeah but I forgot he’s one of our own!
I’d like an upgrade and he doesn’t need to be a superstar like Bale or Mahrez, even Willian ffs we have let better players in him go like Adnan, Nani and Zaha. Who would you rather see on our right attack a risk taker or safe players like Mata or Lingard.
Ps and that’s the worst highlight reel ever lol normally it’s goals or near misses or skills we’ve got one here full of shit shooting and 4-5 lovely goals in between and a series of miss hit through balls or Jesse running square with the ball across the pitch.
I know I’m being over harsh on him but if we put up with this another season we’ll win no title back. He’s not the first needing rid but we cannot keep going into big games with this guy.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I'm not touting Lingard as a world beater, but he is our most improved player who had a very good stretch for most of the season (Jesse Messi time), and he's been just as effective if not more than the likes of Pogba, Rashford, and Martial. So in terms of making an argument against Lingard - one would first have to deal with the fact that the others I mentioned weren't any better. 13 goals from a so called squad player during a year when our attack was anemic at best, is a very good contribution.

Depending on where you rate assists and if you just go off of stats you could argue all the others you mentioned had a better season.
In reality we have to look at his overall impact on games and although I think he is a useful player I don’t personally think he influenced games enough and at times he caused a lot of things to break down. Overall I don’t think he is good enough but i’d Still want him in and around our squad.

 

[AP88]

Impact sub potentially, but he’s woeful in truth, absolutely mediocre and as someone previously said, Tom Cleverley was a far more accomplished footballer.

 

[haram]

Impact sub potentially, but he’s woeful in truth, absolutely mediocre and as someone previously said, Tom Cleverley was a far more accomplished footballer.

Completely wrong.

 

[André Dominguez]

I'm not touting Lingard as a world beater, but he is our most improved player who had a very good stretch for most of the season (Jesse Messi time), and he's been just as effective if not more than the likes of Pogba, Rashford, and Martial. So in terms of making an argument against Lingard - one would first have to deal with the fact that the others I mentioned weren't any better. 13 goals from a so called squad player during a year when our attack was anemic at best, is a very good contribution.

Not that difficult to have better performances than Pogba this season. He was utter crap 90% of the games. I think he's trying too hard, he should relieve pressure and make things simpler.

 

[Lawman]

Not that difficult to have better performances than Pogba this season. He was utter crap 90% of the games. I think he's trying too hard, he should relieve pressure and make things simpler.

I don’t get this 11 goals and 14 assists for a midfielder (Pogba) this season yet Lingard gets hyped (he’s more of an attacker also) and Pogba gets rubbished. He’s had a right few man of the matches also. I get it he’s not excelled but he’s far from being poor. 90% of games he’s been crap? Total hyperbole shite buddy. Don’t bring price into it I judge all the same as the whistle blows it’s perfomances I’m interested in feck prices.

 

[Oldyella]

Not that difficult to have better performances than Pogba this season. He was utter crap 90% of the games. I think he's trying too hard, he should relieve pressure and make things simpler.

Yeah that's just plain wrong. Pogba was great for most of the season, but lost form and didn't get it back.

 

[breakout67]

What is actually happening in this thread?

Lingard is a bench player for us, and only got into the team because of other players under performing (Mkhitaryan and Mata).

We are in for midfielders which means that Lingard will find it tough to play behind the striker where he is good and we are also in for a RW where he has played a few games.

 

[André Dominguez]

Yeah that's just plain wrong. Pogba was great for most of the season, but lost form and didn't get it back.

Probably a bit harsh, but I have Pogba in very high standards. Is hard for me to accept a player like him to display such poor games consecutively.

 

[André Dominguez]

I don’t get this 11 goals and 14 assists for a midfielder (Pogba) this season yet Lingard gets hyped (he’s more of an attacker also) and Pogba gets rubbished. He’s had a right few man of the matches also. I get it he’s not excelled but he’s far from being poor. 90% of games he’s been crap? Total hyperbole shite buddy. Don’t bring price into it I judge all the same as the whistle blows it’s perfomances I’m interested in feck prices.

Like I said, I'm very demanding towards Pogba. He made so many consecutive poor games that I still find it hard to forgive him that.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Interesting that the managers of Redcafe seem to think everyone is shit, players and coaching staff included. His closest team mate and friend seem to rate him quite highly. As did SAF, LvG and now Mourinho.

 

[Lawman]

Like I said, I'm very demanding towards Pogba. He made so many consecutive poor games that I still find it hard to forgive him that.

Feck knows what your thoughts on Lingard are then.

 

[André Dominguez]

Feck knows what your thoughts on Lingard are then.

Fair enough, then.

Lingard is doing more than we could expect from him. He was suppose to be a back-up, but as the other players were doing so poorly he end up playing as starter more times than he surely was hoping for. Doesn't mean he's better than Pogba, though.

 

[Lawman]

Fair enough, then.

Lingard is doing more than we could expect from him. He was suppose to be a back-up, but as the other players were doing so poorly he end up playing as starter more times than he surely was hoping for. Doesn't mean he's better than Pogba, though.

What type of footballer player plays more games than he wants too? It’s straw arguments and excuses every time for some of our players (Herrera, Lingard, Mata) I think it’s because they are likeable when I’d love a Keano in there.
Lingard gets supposedly £100K plus a week surely we expect a lot from him than the shit on a stick he serves up? Stop making excuses for him.

 

[Beachryan]

I just think role relative to the rest of the system is crucial.

You can have an attacker whose main job is movement and creating space if there are others doing the actual chance creation and scoring, like Park or Pedro at Barca. But we typically only play 3 attackers, so even if Lukaku scores 35 a season, we realistically need at least 30 from those other 2. Especially as a side from Pogba, our midfield doesn't score goals.

Jesse went through a short purple patch, but I see nothing to suggest he'll nab 15-20 goals in a season. Whereas Mata, Sanchez and Martial certainly can.

If Jose plays this system, we can't carry an unproductive forward, regardless of being local or nice and so forth. He's played a lot this year and is in his peak years. This is likely as good as it gets.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Really hope Jose converts him into a centre midfielder. To me, he could easily slot into that advanced 8 position and rotate with Pogba.

He's been playing there for England under Southgate, in a 3142, and has often been England's better performers.

 

[roonster09]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

What a guy, he gets too much shit for his Instagram and snapchat but he does these things more than any player (or most) and never credit as much as he deserves.

 

[roonster09]

And this

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/8ndqjd/lingard_responds_to_the_media_reaction_to_his/

 

[K2K]

If he plays well,England will do well at this tournament.

I'd play him ahead of Ali any day. And bring the latter as an impact sub

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What a guy!

 

[golden_blunder]

I just think role relative to the rest of the system is crucial.

You can have an attacker whose main job is movement and creating space if there are others doing the actual chance creation and scoring, like Park or Pedro at Barca. But we typically only play 3 attackers, so even if Lukaku scores 35 a season, we realistically need at least 30 from those other 2. Especially as a side from Pogba, our midfield doesn't score goals.

Jesse went through a short purple patch, but I see nothing to suggest he'll nab 15-20 goals in a season. Whereas Mata, Sanchez and Martial certainly can.

If Jose plays this system, we can't carry an unproductive forward, regardless of being local or nice and so forth. He's played a lot this year and is in his peak years. This is likely as good as it gets.

He was the 2nd most productive this season so how about we cut him a break to see how next season goes before making assumptions? He deserves his squad place based on what he did this season proving many people have smelly breath from all the shit they talk. @Lawman says we let better players go in Adnan, Zaha and Nani. Which is all well and good but Lingard isn’t a winger and when people get that into their thick heads maybe they might appreciate what he can bring to the team.

 

[Lawman]

He was the 2nd most productive this season so how about we cut him a break to see how next season goes before making assumptions? He deserves his squad place based on what he did this season proving many people have smelly breath from all the shit they talk. @Lawman says we let better players go in Adnan, Zaha and Nani. Which is all well and good but Lingard isn’t a winger and when people get that into their thick heads maybe they might appreciate what he can bring to the team.

Think you must have better foresight than feckin Mystic Meg if you see Lingard being a main player here and scoring 20 plus goals (so far in his United career he’s scored 13 league goals in 84 games with 8 assists). He’s such an average player plus even with scoring his overall game is way short of a regular forward (attacking midfielder) oh yeah running of the ball (facepalm).
Plus @golden_blunder You should maybe check your own nose out if you’re going to give out advice on bad breath from talking shite. Especially when we are talking Jesse Lingard who has shown nothing to suggest he’s going to be a player capable of getting us back to the top. He’s a squad player at the very best, he’s scored a few cup final goals and had a purple patch for a month or two this season but so what, the rest of his career to date has been filled with meh performances. He should never start a big game over Rashf or Martial in my opinion.

 

[golden_blunder]

Think you must have better foresight than feckin Mystic Meg if you see Lingard being a main player here and scoring 20 plus goals (so far in his United career he’s scored 13 league goals in 84 games with 8 assists). He’s such an average player plus even with scoring his overall game is way short of a regular forward (attacking midfielder) oh yeah running of the ball (facepalm).
Plus @golden_blunder You should maybe check your own nose out if you’re going to give out advice on bad breath from talking shite. Especially when we are talking Jesse Lingard who has shown nothing to suggest he’s going to be a player capable of getting us back to the top. He’s a squad player at the very best, he’s scored a few cup final goals and had a purple patch for a month or two this season but so what, the rest of his career to date has been filled with meh performances. He should never start a big game over Rashf or Martial in my opinion.

Where have I said that he is anything more than a reliable squad player? His overall goal stats mean nothing, for years he’s been pigeon holed into wingback and winger positions. Guess what? He doesn’t do as well there, who knew? Time people started recognizing that requires having good squad players as well to win leagues. Fergies teams were built on them. And no, I’m not mystic meg, I simply thought that he was a much better footballer than he was getting credit for as people were comparing him to out and out wingers (even though he’s not one!). I said all along, Watch his movement, Watch his pressing, he brings a different skill set to the team. I said judge him when he had played a while in his proper position. Guess when he started knocking in ‘worldies’? Last season I was proved right. I’m going to predict that he will get better next season when the new players come in and we see a bit of movement throughout the team

 

[Lawman]

Where have I said that he is anything more than a reliable squad player? His overall goal stats mean nothing, for years he’s been pigeon holed into wingback and winger positions. Guess what? He doesn’t do as well there, who knew? Time people started recognizing that requires having good squad players as well to win leagues. Fergies teams were built on them. And no, I’m not mystic meg, I simply thought that he was a much better footballer than he was getting credit for as people were comparing him to out and out wingers (even though he’s not one!). I said all along, Watch his movement, Watch his pressing, he brings a different skill set to the team. I said judge him when he had played a while in his proper position. Guess when he started knocking in ‘worldies’? Last season I was proved right. I’m going to predict that he will get better next season when the new players come in and we see a bit of movement throughout the team

If anybody hits as many shots as him then they will get a few worldies. He lacks severe composure and has too many turn overs, runs up too many blind avenues and shirks responsibly on the ball for me (he’s exceptionally careless on the ball). He’s a decent at best squad player who should be nowhere near our first 11 come big games. Is there any other top 4 team he’d be a regular?

 

[TheReligion]

If anybody hits as many shots as him then they will get a few worldies. He lacks severe composure and has too many turn overs, runs up too many blind avenues and shirks responsibly on the ball for me (he’s exceptionally careless on the ball). He’s a decent at best squad player who should be nowhere near our first 11 come big games. Is there any other top 4 team he’d be a regular?

Are we really arguing about a home grown talent who has produced some great performances this season and arguably hit his peak form?

Great for the squad.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Another one of those mysteries where some of the greatest ever managers rate a player and a collection of couch potatos on a forum don't. I love me a good mystery.

 

[breakout67]

If anybody hits as many shots as him then they will get a few worldies. He lacks severe composure and has too many turn overs, runs up too many blind avenues and shirks responsibly on the ball for me (he’s exceptionally careless on the ball). He’s a decent at best squad player who should be nowhere near our first 11 come big games. Is there any other top 4 team he’d be a regular?

'Too many turnovers' and 'exceptionally careless with the ball' are flat out lies. Lingard and Mata are objectively the most difficult players to get the ball from in the team and very rarely lose the ball.

I don't even rate Lingard, but I don't make things up just because I don't he's an amazing player.

 

[T A]

He was the 2nd most productive this season so how about we cut him a break to see how next season goes before making assumptions? He deserves his squad place based on what he did this season proving many people have smelly breath from all the shit they talk. @Lawman says we let better players go in Adnan, Zaha and Nani. Which is all well and good but Lingard isn’t a winger and when people get that into their thick heads maybe they might appreciate what he can bring to the team.

Sorry but where you get this stat from? Because on Transfermarkt, this is:

Rashford: 13 goals - 9 assists / 2676’
Martial: 11 goals - 9 assists / 2337’
Messe Lingod: 13 goals - 7 assists / 2652’

 

[Kostov]

'Too many turnovers' and 'exceptionally careless with the ball' are flat out lies. Lingard and Mata are objectively the most difficult players to get the ball from in the team and very rarely lose the ball.

I don't even rate Lingard, but I don't make things up just because I don't he's an amazing player.

Because at the slightest bit of pressure they either lose it or pass it backwards.

Can somebody with some spare time make a video of all of Lingard touches in the last couple of games? He gets dispossessed with ease, only thing he does effectively against pressing defenders is pass and move, which at the highest level is not enough.

 

[breakout67]

Because at the slightest bit of pressure they either lose it or pass it backwards.

Can somebody with some spare time make a video of all of Lingard touches in the last couple of games? He gets dispossessed with ease, only thing he does effectively against pressing defenders is pass and move, which at the highest level is not enough.

That's Mata you've described not Lingard. And it's also irrelevant because of what I'm quoting.

Lingard does not cause turnovers often, and he does not lose the ball often. These are flat out lies. Why that is another discussion altogether.

 

[Kostov]

That's Mata you've described not Lingard. And it's also irrelevant because of what I'm quoting.

Lingard does not cause turnovers often, and he does not lose the ball often. These are flat out lies. Why that is another discussion altogether.

You did say Mata and Lingard, and I think they are the same in that regard.

And saying Lingard does not lose the ball often is not telling the whole story. He hardly ever tries to do anything of note in attack, whenever he does he losses the ball often.

 

[breakout67]

You did say Mata and Lingard, and I think they are the same in that regard.

And saying Lingard does not lose the ball often is not telling the whole story. He hardly ever tries to do anything of note in attack, whenever he does he losses the ball often.

What whole story are you even talking about? I said myself that I don't rate Lingard either and see him as a rotational option. That doesn't mean I'm gonna make things up about him.

For example, this notion that Lingard scores a lot of worldies is from trying over and over again is also false. His shot volume is nothing extraordinary (he is around average for the squad) and players like Pogba and Rashford take more shots than him from poor positions while scoring less than them. Lingard has arguably the best shot on him in the team, maybe Martial.

 

[Kostov]

What whole story are you even talking about? I said myself that I don't rate Lingard either and see him as a rotational option. That doesn't mean I'm gonna make things up about him.

For example, this notion that Lingard scores a lot of worldies is from trying over and over again is also false. His shot volume is nothing extraordinary (he is around average for the squad) and players like Pogba and Rashford take more shots than him from poor positions while scoring less than them. Lingard has arguably the best shot on him in the team, maybe Martial.

The whole story about him not loosing the ball often, how can you loose the ball often when you play it safe and rarely take any risk trying to create something. That story.

Whether you rate him or not, is irrelevant to what I am saying. I replied to you saying him and Mata are the most difficult players to get the ball off in our team, which frankly is nonsense.

EDIT;
And to reply to that part of him having the best shot, Lingard has 55 total shots in the PL, with 56% while scoring 5 goals, Martial has 46 shots with 50% also scoring 5 goals. Make of that what you want. I take it as him taking more shots and hitting the target more often, but Martial has the same amount of goals in 9 less shots.

 

[breakout67]

The whole story about him not loosing the ball often, how can you loose the ball often when you play it safe and rarely take any risk trying to create something. That story.

Whether you rate him or not, is irrelevant to what I am saying. I replied to you saying him and Mata are the most difficult players to get the ball off in our team, which frankly is nonsense.

Being difficult to get the ball from =/= being a good dribbler
Not losing the ball often =/= being a good dribbler
Being difficult to get the ball from =/= being able to hold off players well

Mata and Lingard release the ball quickly and play safe passes = being difficult to get the ball from

The majority of Sanchez dribble and passes are speculative and risky. He's still easy to get the ball from.

 

[Kostov]

Being difficult to get the ball from =/= being a good dribbler
Not losing the ball often =/= being a good dribbler
Being difficult to get the ball from =/= being able to hold off players well

Mata and Lingard release the ball quickly and play safe passes = being difficult to get the ball from

The majority of Sanchez dribble and passes are speculative and risky. He's still easy to get the ball from.

OK than, that why I said the whole story, in that same manner we can say Chris Smalling is very difficult to get the ball from, he releases the ball quickly and plays safe passes.

 

[breakout67]

OK than, that why I said the whole story, in that same manner we can say Chris Smalling is very difficult to get the ball from, he releases the ball quickly and plays safe passes.

But the whole story is irrelevant to what I actually said. The whole story is that we need someone with more creativity and consistency of performance in Lingards place. But the point I was making is that I'm not going to make up things about him to paint the whole story.

Lingard doesn't get enough assists...is a criticism
Lingard causes too many turnovers...is wrong

So if someone wanted to critcisize Smalling:

Smalling doesn't build play well from the back...is a criticism
Smalling loses the ball a lot...is wrong

 

[golden_blunder]

Sorry but where you get this stat from? Because on Transfermarkt, this is:

Rashford: 13 goals - 9 assists / 2676’
Martial: 11 goals - 9 assists / 2337’
Messe Lingod: 13 goals - 7 assists / 2652’

So I missed 2 assists somewhere if that’s true though rash has slightly more gametime.
My other point is that he’s chipped in with 13 goals from midfield, that’s not shady at all

 

[Kostov]

But the whole story is irrelevant to what I actually said. The whole story is that we need someone with more creativity and consistency of performance in Lingards place. But the point I was making is that I'm not going to make up things about him to paint the whole story.

Lingard doesn't get enough assists...is a criticism
Lingard causes too many turnovers...is wrong

So if someone wanted to critcisize Smalling:

Smalling doesn't build play well from the back...is a criticism
Smalling loses the ball a lot...is wrong

OK fair enough, I agree we need better as a starter and he doesn't lose the ball too often based on the way he plays.

But saying Lingard and Mata are the most difficult to get the ball from in our team is wrong also, which was what I originally replied to.

 

[breakout67]

OK fair enough, I agree we need better as a starter and he doesn't lose the ball too often based on the way he plays.

But saying Lingard and Mata are the most difficult to get the ball from in our team is wrong also, which was what I originally replied to.

I don't think it is but its just semantics so I can't be bothered. We both agree that he's not at the level we require to be a key figure in the team. Good discussion sir