We’ll do exactly the same with Martial
Jesse Lingard 'to leave on a free'
- Thread starter Ranchero
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Moyes said it himself.
"Ole [Gunnar Solskjaer] made it clear to me quite early in the transfer window that he wanted to keep him.
"So I knew pretty early in the transfer window that he was staying at Manchester United. I had a private conversation with Ole who made it clear that he was staying."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ma...n-united-transfers-jesse-lingard-21597631.amp
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Oooh No. Jesse feels disrespected. Im already over it.
Well it didn't turn out well when West ham puller out altogether did it?
I thought lingard wanted to wait until the end of the season and get a great big signing on fee, but now he wants to go and play on loan.
It's a difficult one without knowing what's really going on but from the outside looking in, and putting club loyalty to one side, the treatment of players doesn't appear to be well handled.
From Moyes to Ole we have heard, albeit by press and "leaks", how certain things have happened at the club. From watching videos of how to defend to players publicly criticised to promises made and the curious case of VDB. For me this affects people more than we are giving players credit.
Wasn't that long ago people were critical of the Martial, for example as it wasn't just him, treatment by the club. Where he would have a good game and get dropped.
I'm not liking the attitude of some of the players but I'm not convinced it's all on the players.
From Moyes to Ole we have heard, albeit by press and "leaks", how certain things have happened at the club. From watching videos of how to defend to players publicly criticised to promises made and the curious case of VDB. For me this affects people more than we are giving players credit.
Wasn't that long ago people were critical of the Martial, for example as it wasn't just him, treatment by the club. Where he would have a good game and get dropped.
I'm not liking the attitude of some of the players but I'm not convinced it's all on the players.
I can't wait for him to leave the club, so we don't have to hear about this anymore.
Ive seen this sort of thing being said many times on here. However there's an obvious problem with what you're saying. We are terrible at selling players, have been for years, therefore whatever strategy we're using isn't working for us. Not only that but the people negotiating with us aren't idiots, they know full well that Lingard isn't part of our plans; he never plays!
He'll be gone for nothing in a few months and we don't need him. It'd take a special kind of moron to actually lose out on making millions for him now due to valuing him too high.
I've never been a big fan of Jesse and always saw him as a back up player rather than starting 11. At the same time I've never disliked him as such as he is a local lad that can be useful.
But in this situation I can sort of understand his stance, if reports are to be believed. He went through a bad patch.nbwas told he had a part to play which didn't Materialise. He went on loan to WHU. They wanted him but was told he couldn't go. Didn't get game time so wants to leave.
He is on decent money with potentially one big contract left in him. He can go on loan now and play and get a signing on fee for said possible one last big contract or sign on for lower money and get paid less.
No brainer for me. Go on loan to get game time and wait for contract to finish and potentially get a limp sum as a signing on fee. Makes sense
If it was just him I'd agree.
Bunch of clowns. Now United has to pay his wages till end of the season and he goes for free.
If he had gone at least we didn't have to pay his wages.
If he had gone at least we didn't have to pay his wages.
When you look at us over the last decade...it’s quite embarrassing...Jesse, Rojo, Darmian, Bailey, Mata, Jones, Kagawa, Mkhitarian, Falcao, Blind, Sanchez, Perreira, Fred his first two seasons, VDB...that’s all just off the top of my head. How much have we paid these guys to sit on the bench...really big wages..like wages most premiere clubs would pay their top earners let alone fringe or squad players. No matter which way you look at it...either our scouting is fuked, our ability to develop players is fuked or our willingness to be ruthless and make quicker decisions on players abilities is fuked. Either way...we are an embarrassment.
Of course, but it makes sense for the club to keep him just in case if a loan fee isn't deemed enough. It's not disrespecting him.
I agree with this.
People commenting that Ole told him in a private convo that he was staying.... well that was "private" then wasn't it?
Secondly, Moyes will say that to save face with West Ham because firstly they were not offering anywhere near £20m to sign him but signed Vlasic for £25m and secondly, Ole will not say, nah we don't want him, take him. I mean most signings we make, the manager wants to keep the player, that doesn't mean we don't sign them.
Finally, evidence shows that Jesse was not going to start or get games. However well he did, sometimes as a player you have to realise yourself that you will not get ahead of Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood. Then we signed Sancho and Ronaldo.
I mean it is entirely on Lingard. Why should we let him go on loan without a good fee to keep Newcastle up?
The club need to think about themselves not Jesse. He is going to go on a free, he isn't thinking oh I want the club to get a fee for me, so why should the club care ?
If there has been mismanagement it isn't the individual players fault and they have no obligation to do themselves harm.
When we extend contract it isn't to be nice. It is to provide cover or increase/protect resale value.
The turd that won’t flush.
Fair enough and I agree, however the same apply from club to player. This United DNA, United through and through and they understand the club BS needs to stop. 99% of players (former or non) are in it for the money, nothing else. Now since we're one of the highest paying clubs then we should expect only the very best for our club.
It's not a contradiction. Players are not either in it for the money or passionate playing for the club. They, arguably by default, are both.
Most blatant example to illustrate this is Messi. Noone can claim that he wasn't "Barca through and through". He was.
Didn't stop his agent from getting a higher contract out of Barca for him every year, to the brink of a stranglehold on the club's wage budget, no doubt leveraging outside interest to put pressure on the club.
The two things can be true at the same time, and it's important that people are capable of thinking beyond simple dichotomies.
Juan Mata says hello
Moyes is lying, just like VDB and his agent
See how you behave if your office tells you to serve a 12 month notice period but they won't involve you in any tasks and you're just to sit there the entire time. This is a problem of our own making and now it's clear he is going to leave I don't see why he wouldn't make his agenda about him.
United overpriced him. It is literally why no other club came in for him. £25-30m was the fee. Ole probably thought he'd be useful to have hanging around.
The same is happening again now.
If they won't let him go now, well he will have spent a whole season on the bench, rarely playing. Come summer he is no longer our problem and it will become Jesse and his agents problem to try and get a big wage somewhere else, when as I mentioned he has barely played all season. It is then a risk to that club if he can rediscover his West Ham form. If Newcastle stay up, then they might go for him in the summer, but they might be looking at better. Has it been handled badly, of course, should we be surprised, hell no.
You can love the club but you have a limited life as a footballer and sacrificing for some vague concept of loving the club, especially when owned by financial vampires like the Glazers is a ludicrous concept.
The club extended his contract for them, not some personal favour.
Think most can understand why Jesse is seeing his contract out, might not agree, but we can see it. We took a big risk keeping him last summer, I would have just sold him then. However our end of the risk if nearly over. The risk is now all on Jesse's side and if he can get that big contract and that he can start performing well, otherwise he might find himself needing a new club again and he won't have the misguided loyalty from the club he has been with since a kid behind him.
Have you ever been made redundant from a position of high authority? You get paid leave for 3 months or more as long as you keep your mouth shut, it's not bad at all if you're professional. It's the same deal managers get when they're fired, which is why you don't see them jumping into new jobs right away until their gardening leave is up. Jesse wouldn't even be in this situation if his performances for United hadn't been AWOL for the last 2 years.
You miss the point. It was a pointless contract extension, brings no value add to the club, which is what the previous poster was aluding to. No resale value with the player, nothing, nada. Does Juan even still exist?
I don't miss the point at all. You can't blame the player if you think the club shouldn't have offered a contract extension.
Are you referring to the same player whose yearly pay rise demands ended up crippling the very club that made him? The same guy who went on live TV crying as if he's some sort of modern Bobby Charlton whose being pushed out of the club when in reality he had handled his transfer request just 12 months before? I see nothing but a mercenary there who used sentimentalism shown by his club fans to make himself way richer then he ever need to be. No wonder why prime SAF operated on a mantra that no one is bigger then the club.
There was a time when footballers truly loved the club. I am referring to the likes of Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and Javier Zanetti who had turned down far more lucrative contract deals elsewhere because they couldn't see them wear another shirt. Those times are gone. Agents reign football and they'll squeeze every cent they can. That's fair enough. However clubs needs to adapt to that as well. They should show players the door the moment he's not worth the salary he's getting....no ifs no buts.
As a supporter I hate the Glazers as the next guy but let's not kid ourselves that they weren't great for these bunch of losers we have. Under the Glazers, players like JLingz were allowed to grow their brand under the club's very nose and was given silly salaries despite not being good enough and despite admitting that there were times when he could be arsed of focusing on his football career. That would have never had happened under Edwards. FFS Edwards hesitated in giving Gabriel Batistuta the salary he had at Fiorentina and to give SAF the same salary Graham had with Arsenal. There's no way he would have allowed JLingz to take him to the cleaners.
I have no problem accepting that players are in it for the money. What you've said is a fact of life. However fans need to accept that the club needs to treat the players the way the players are treating the club. As Don Corleone would say it's not personal its strictly business
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The fact that your approach necessitates you to perceive Messi, who joined Barca at age 13 and remained with them for over 20 years, as "nothing but a mercenary" kind of proves my point, don't you think?
Quite apparently you have trouble with complexity.
That's a problem, because without complexity your grasp on reality becomes fictitious, as in presenting three exceptional cases as proof for some mythical and gone past era of "true love" which never was that.
Hope that's not the way you "see" your life's relationships.
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How would you call someone who would extract an eye watering $674 million in 4 years out of the very club that made him? That despite knowing very well that Barcelona's pockets were never that deep. Don't take me wrong, I don't blame Messi. Barcelona allowed him to become bigger then the club, they allowed him to take them to the cleaners and tbf he carried more then his weight something most of our players can't be bothered doing. However let's call a spade for what it is. Messi was is in it for money as most of the modern players are. The time when players would turn down fat pay cheques to remain with their club is long over
You do realize the replacement is his clone Richard Arnold? He'll probably bugger up the part Woodward was successful at ($$$).
Who's blaming the player? I didnt say that. I just pointed out that the club have a history of handing out contracts like confetti
I have a hard time buying that story. It is not in our interest to say please take him off our hands Mr. Moyes at the start of negotiations, if West Ham had serious interest they still could have and should have made a bid but they did not try. For perspective, Ole was adamant he did not want to sell Dan James this season but when push came to shove Leeds made a great offer and the board grabbed it with both hands regardless of what Ole wanted, the notion that Ole had final say on transfers has been proven false on more than one occasion.
I for one welcomes Lingard's stay at OT and hope he will play is role in helping us cling on to that fourth spot
It certainly didn’t turn out well for West Ham when they could easily have gained more points this season had they paid what we asked for last summer.
I’m sure the same people will be complaining if we sold Lingard on a cheap and he then transformed West Ham into a genuine top 4 club this season.
Nothings more annoying, specially if you're over at someone else's house. And lingard is more annoying than that.
Ole needed to be firm in the summer and ship him out. Would have easily got between 25-30m and saved a years worth of wages for a player who’s sat in the bench.
Completely useless this club at shipping out the deadwood
Completely useless this club at shipping out the deadwood