Why are people acting as if the PL do not pay well? Posts like this makes it seem like players on PL are on minimum wage.
In respects to career being over, that can happen in Saudi too, is there something that stops players getting injured there?
Jhon Durán | Deal agreed with Al Nassr for €77m
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Why are people acting as if the PL do not pay well? Posts like this makes it seem like players on PL are on minimum wage.
In respects to career being over, that can happen in Saudi too, is there something that stops players getting injured there?
I’m so glad he didn’t get the MOTD gig (which apparently he was near the top of the list for) and he’s not on commentary anymore.Posts like that don’t make it seem like the PL doesn’t pay well - unless you want it to read it as such. Evidently, the premise and anchor of my post is that Saudi is paying better? As the post I replied to presented “money” as the primary motivation.
Your second paragraph is “???” At no point was it suggested players can’t be injured in Saudi. But the crux of this conversation is that they would be on a higher paying contract/have accumulated more wealth there than otherwise. Which is evidently a better situation to be in should a career ending injury happen.
Why does this have to be explained? Did you read what you’ve replied to?
It’s a very short term view of one’s career. There is a much lower ceiling now on his development and future as a player, and that will mean less future earnings. If he develops into a really big name during his 20s in a proper league, he’d earn more over the trajectory of his whole career. You can argue he took a very risk averse path to making more money now, which I guess is fine, but there is a better path.
Ronaldo and Salah soon did it the right way. You develop in competitive leagues, compete for big trophies, still earn obscene amounts of money, and then earn even more than Duran will when you go to stroll around in the Saudi league in your “old” age off the back of your success in football.
If he stays in Saudi for a few years, he won’t come back to a top team in a top league. There is a scenario here where scoring against Bayern in the CL is the highlight of his career.
Take the money, makes it seem like the PL has no money. I read what you wrote and replied to it. With respects to romantic stuff... winning things is not romance, its actually dreams and aspirations.
Speak to any young aspiring footballer, they want to win trophies, its not just "randoms" on the internet who want their clubs to win trophies.
Why does it have to be explained to people that there are many footballers who actually play because they love the sport and want to win trophies.
Going to Saudi is not a certainty for your career, you can go for 2 years and then cannot get anywhere, whereas many players in the PL, if they are good players, they get good clubs.
They will make generational wealth either way.
2 seasons in Saudi will probably see him earn more than an entire career as a 'good' PL striker though.
I don’t believe there is a “right way” or “better path”. People simply have different priorities, options and tolerance to risk.
The logic in your first paragraph hinges on too many “ifs”. He has the chance now secure his financial future rather than counting on “if I develop in a proper league”/“if I become a big name I might make more money with this trajectory”
Ronaldo and Salah are among the very top percentile of players that even get to that level, are lucky enough to avoid serious long-term injuries and secured moves to powerhouse clubs relatively early in their careers. Duran is a sub at a club punching above their weight and the last club to approach them for him was West Ham.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen Evan Ferguson - just a couple seasons ago - generally being touted as the next big thing on this forum. His career is already in “recovery” mode. That’s how quickly things can change in football.
It is a job. Take the money.
Nonsense.. Dhuran has been linked with Arsenal and the like... let me disprove the false statements:
A PL ST at Arsenal starting weekly would get circa 150-200k but for this argument I will say lets take Nketiah as an example...
He is on 90k base per week which is £5.2m per year.
Dhuran say he gets 300k at Saudi = £15m a year
A 21 year old in PL can play minimum 10 years = £52m
2 years in Saudi is £31m
The PL then has all sorts of bonuses on winning cups, qualifying CL etc..
So no, you are wrong.
It's a bit surprising, but I think it's somewhat common for Colombian football players to just look for the immediate money maximizing move.
I don't know if people remember that a few years ago, Sheriff Tiraspol, a team from the 'unrecognised breakaway state of Transnistria' in Moldova, beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu. There were two Colombians in that team. Now that is true commitment to chasing that bag.
I don't know if people remember that a few years ago, Sheriff Tiraspol, a team from the 'unrecognised breakaway state of Transnistria' in Moldova, beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu. There were two Colombians in that team. Now that is true commitment to chasing that bag.
Madness.
Diaby now Duran....Saudi's love pinching the Villa's best players.
It's a shocking transfer all round. Shows a true lack of footballing ambition
Reminds me of when Oscar went to China for big bucks back in the day - when China we're going to stamp they're authority and be a force in world football. That worked out well
Diaby now Duran....Saudi's love pinching the Villa's best players.
It's a shocking transfer all round. Shows a true lack of footballing ambition
Reminds me of when Oscar went to China for big bucks back in the day - when China we're going to stamp they're authority and be a force in world football. That worked out well
I mean, "take the money" makes all the sense if you have family to support, little assets and comes up an offer that makes you earn 100k pounds a month rather than 10k a month - that's a big upgrade of quality of life, take the money sure.
But there's nothing "romantic" in preferring to be a multimillionaire living in a proper country, with global exposure, real challenges and real fans compared to being thrice as rich multimillionaire living in a shithole, disappointing fans in your home country and giving up on ambition and exposure. Not to mention that this juicy Saudi salary is much less guaranteed than the one at Villa - and we've seen Sauds trying to trick the players into paying them less than promised. In fact, at least to me, it seems completely irrational to give up on so much only to be able to afford a slightly larger private jet and maybe a bit larger villa - because let's not kid ourselves, he'd be able to afford absolutely everything on the Premier League wages. Capitalism has rotten brains of some who seem to think a guy with 100 millions in his account is automatically 10 times happier than the guy with 10 millions.
But there's nothing "romantic" in preferring to be a multimillionaire living in a proper country, with global exposure, real challenges and real fans compared to being thrice as rich multimillionaire living in a shithole, disappointing fans in your home country and giving up on ambition and exposure. Not to mention that this juicy Saudi salary is much less guaranteed than the one at Villa - and we've seen Sauds trying to trick the players into paying them less than promised. In fact, at least to me, it seems completely irrational to give up on so much only to be able to afford a slightly larger private jet and maybe a bit larger villa - because let's not kid ourselves, he'd be able to afford absolutely everything on the Premier League wages. Capitalism has rotten brains of some who seem to think a guy with 100 millions in his account is automatically 10 times happier than the guy with 10 millions.
45% income tax in the UK.
0% income tax in Saudi.
Feel free to recalculate and come back to me. I would expect a response that tells me I am wrong and flagrantly false to not omit such an obviously crucial detail, as well as have correct calculations.
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I don’t know what you’re struggling with - “take the money” was used as an assertion for a scenario in which Saudi is evidently paying more. Again, the post I replied to presented money as the primary motivation. That doesn’t make it seem that the PL has no money unless you just didn’t comprehend what you’re replying to. Saying take the money in a scenario in which A pays more than B doesn’t mean B has no money/doesn’t pay well. These aren't mutually exclusive things, do you understand this?
Right, so romantic stuff
We've all had dreams and aspirations, yes.
Me saying I'd advise anyone to take the money and leave the romantic stuff to randoms on the internet should not translate to "it's just randoms on the internet who want their clubs to win trophies", because - well, that's not the statement that was made. Again, are you reading and understanding what you're replying to? You keep reading ABC and getting XYZ out of it.
I don't even know what you mean about "going to Saudi isn't a certainty for your career" - certainty regarding what? Because the conversation I'm having is a scenario in which he has the opportunity to move to a club which is seemingly paying more - as such, I'd advise him to take the money rather than staying in the PL and counting of ifs of developing into a player good enough to merit moves to powerhouse clubs with a good contract.
I don't presume to know his situation/circumstances and how many people he cares for/has to look after nor the lifestyle he has/wants/would have to upkeep. I simply said that I'd advise a professional footballer to prioritise their financial earnings when presented with the choice of moving somewhere with better pay.
What a depressing thread title. I miss the good days when there was a strong Serie A, La Liga, EPL and Bundesliga.
Post has a lot of stuff that's just bordering on- I mean;
"proper country"
"real challenges"
"real fans"
"shithole"
interesting rhetoric, to say the least.
For clarification, money wasn't used as a measure of happiness. I'd just rather have 100 millions than 10. Conversely, "global exposure" and the potential to compete for "trophies" do not auto translate to happiness for me either.
So basically saying players shouldn't believe in themselves or look to achieve their dreams? A player on the up, who can become better, in 2 seasons top clubs touting him, you're recommendation would be forget your dreams and aspirations at 21... just go Saudi because you will be well paid for a few years then dissapear?
Look, I am a fan of relativist bullshit myself, but there's a limit to that - for me there's nothing subjective in admitting that Premier League is a bigger challenge than Saudi league and there's also nothing subjective in saying it has more fans than the Saudi league. You know it, I know it, Duran knows it. If he or you say "ok but it doesn't matter, I'm in this job for money only" that's completely fair and go be a well paid subject (or we now also pretend that personal freedoms in Saudi and the UK can't be compared?), you sacrifice something for somethings, that's cool. But if you (or Duran or Ronaldo) go on in the self-deluding manner "actually you can't say that Saudi league is less challenging than the Premier League" than you're just ridiculous
Let's say you work for Google for 200k per year.
Then you have the chance to work on a less known company, but they will pay you 2M plus giving you a mansion with full service and a service car with fuel expenses included, plus personal travels also covered by the company.
99.9% of the world is going for option 2
Then you have the chance to work on a less known company, but they will pay you 2M plus giving you a mansion with full service and a service car with fuel expenses included, plus personal travels also covered by the company.
99.9% of the world is going for option 2
At this point I shouldn't be surprised by you managing to extract something completely different from what you've read, but somehow I'm still shocked.
I don't even know Duran's potential dreams and aspirations. But sure, in a scenario in which a player has the opportunity to move and guarantee funds that will secure his financial future vs staying at a prem club for the possibility of maybe developing into a player that could potentially move to a big club with big wages - yes, I'd advise take the money.
"Disappearing" isn't even like a rule set in stone either
Except that isn't all you said. Hence "interesting rhetoric". You know, "proper country", "real fans", "shithole" etc.
For all we know, the guy might see elevating the profile of the Saudi league as a challenge - as ridiculous as that may sound to your or me. It's all fluff anyway - as is the suggestion of the Saudi league not being less challenging than the Premier league - an implication no one has made.
I'm just a "take the money", kind of guy - without all the extras like "some seem to think a guy with 100 millions in his account is automatically 10 times happier than the guy with 10 millions."
@TsuWave by your logic, no matter what field of work one is in, they should apply for jobs worldwide and go work for whoever offers the highest net wages right now.
Lifestyle, culture, long term career development, lifetime earnings vs immediate earnings, and family life all be damned? I think you’re really discounting how he’s jeopardizing higher earnings over his whole career for a short term bump in earnings even if we stick to a purely financial argument. It’s not unlike Barcelona selling future revenue at a discount now and calling it a “lever”. They also could say the future revenue is dependent on many ifs and they’re right to take what is guaranteed now.
It is clearly not how the world works and is a very very limited view of how people, and even businesses, actually make decisions.
In a way, I don’t even know what we’re debating. He’s free to go to Saudi, and we’re free to think it is a shortsighted and even stupid decision. At the end of the day, it is his personal life, no one is stopping him.
Lifestyle, culture, long term career development, lifetime earnings vs immediate earnings, and family life all be damned? I think you’re really discounting how he’s jeopardizing higher earnings over his whole career for a short term bump in earnings even if we stick to a purely financial argument. It’s not unlike Barcelona selling future revenue at a discount now and calling it a “lever”. They also could say the future revenue is dependent on many ifs and they’re right to take what is guaranteed now.
It is clearly not how the world works and is a very very limited view of how people, and even businesses, actually make decisions.
In a way, I don’t even know what we’re debating. He’s free to go to Saudi, and we’re free to think it is a shortsighted and even stupid decision. At the end of the day, it is his personal life, no one is stopping him.
Again, you are implying as if the PL isnt guaranteed money either. You do realise players in the PL have contracts too?
He could sign a new 5 year deal at Villa as well if he doesn't want to move.
Some players actually have aspirations to be top forwards. Most players that get into football have aspirations of being one of the best players. Luckily, you are not a football agent, you would always advise against the better for career prospect over money.
A good example in recent times is Lingard... chose short term money at Forrest on a 1 year deal rejecting a multi year deal at West Ham... he is in Asia now.
Ah you're pulling my leg. Congratulations for managing to drag it for 3 (4) posts, I guess
Nothing here makes sense to me. For one, football is a riskier and harder to be successful in field than a substantial number of other career paths.
Secondly, I don't know where the premise/notion that he's jeopardising higher career earnings is even coming from? The likelihood of a player that's currently a sub at a club punching above their weight to go and turn into/have a similar career trajectory of that of Ronaldo/Salah (your previously used examples) is really small. More likelihood of an Evan Ferguson like drop-off than the former.
The false equivalency between an established institution like Barcelona, 125 year old, and generally considered a top 5 club in the world, and a "promising" player - makes sense to you? Barcelona will likely be around half a century from now. Dhuran has 10-15 years if he's incredibly lucky to escape injuries. The considerations he has and Barcelona's are not even in the same stratosphere - and ironically even Barcelona had to take the money now. So yes, I'd advise him to take the money now rather than counting on the many ifs and maybes that aren't even solely under his control.
In terms of the discussion I don't know, I replied to a post saying that football is a job and if ever in a scenario in which a player has the opportunity to move and guarantee funds that will secure their financial future vs staying at a prem club for the possibility of maybe developing into a player that could potentially move to a big club with big wages - I'd advise them to take the money - and you responded talking about "short-term view of one's career" and “right way” and “better path” whilst name dropping two of the very best footballers in the last three decades as if what they did is relatively easy to attain/achieve or follow.
He is probably helping his family/entourage and feels like more money in the bank = better future for him and his relatives.
Just another look at the OP to cheer everyone up.
Youngest "high Profile" player yet to join the Saudi retirement league?
Gabriel Veiga from Celta Vigo also moved there, he was very highly rated.
I never understand this "set for life" thing people always spew.... how is the money almost any Premier League player not enough to cover that already? If you can't set you families for life on a Premier League wage, I can't see them being capable of doing it on even more money either... it'll just be frivolously wasted regardless if that's the issue. Which it may not be. I'm not entirely fussed by it and the massive wealth is obviously the main reasoning behind it - but I just that specific part a strange argument.
Yes of those 2 obscene amounts of money, one is much bigger.
I didn't debate whether he would be more rich, nor did I even say it's a bad thing if that's why he's moving. I simply offered the balance that unless he has incredibly unhealthy spending habits then him and his family would already be set for life. As such if shouldn't be painted as a necessary move to secure the financial stability of his family, as it isn't.
And again, good luck to him earning as much money as he possibly can. God speed
Could be a mix of growing up poor, seeking a billionaire lifestyle or being addicted to making money, even when you have enough to last a normal life.
Millionaires will be spending a lot every year, plus the huge taxes they will pay on their income.
I can't pass judgement on a young guy, who has found himself at the top of an extremely lucrative profession, wanting to max his lot in life before injury or age take away the only thing they have been great at.
you just never know where someone is coming from.
Mind-boggling concept, apparently!
Not good for our national side. Fook!!
Good business for Villa as could see that I think he was going to be a stroppy difficult personality at the club going forward - already signs of tantrums and throwing toys out of the pram - made a very healthy profit and he is sold off to a league where they will not compete as rivals.
Remember the name now as he will fizzle into obscurity soon enough….
Remember the name now as he will fizzle into obscurity soon enough….
People posting as if £100k-150k pw which he could easily get in other leagues, isn't already generational wealth. Heck, even £70k pw is already generational wealth.
Reasoning like this just makes me realise how greedy the average human has gotten regarding money (under the guise of securing the bag), and it's part of why we're fecked as a whole.
Reasoning like this just makes me realise how greedy the average human has gotten regarding money (under the guise of securing the bag), and it's part of why we're fecked as a whole.
Going, going, ghon.
People here but also among friends (and podcasts, specific subcultures, etc) reaffirm this a lot though. Get rich quick, retire at 25, you see it all over Instagram as if the newest pyramid schemes but... everywhere. Honestly many of the Saudi teams make that league look a bit more interesting to a player than Qatar, UAE and China did before. But I don't think I'd want to go there myself and on a personal level I don't understand that whole steroid-capitalism attitude either... but looking around there are so many people who think any pursuit besides money is for weaklings and such. I'm not surprised to see someone, especially a 21 year old boy, follow this principle.
It's everywhere, it basically feels like a pure fact to many. Money makes the world go round... or something like that.
We might never understand. You could play in the second division of Germany and make terrific money. But someone in your team will sign the first million euro contract they see, and would think you a weirdo for not doing the same. More importantly, besides reflection on their actual wishes for their own lives, all those influences create an inner voice calling oneself a weirdo if they don't chase that which is supposed to be chased. Like Future said (I think): don't chase a chick, chase a check. Ignoring interpretations of what "chase" means to our lives, I'd much rather connect closely with someone and share a life than have much more money than I do now. The other route sounds more independent, but is it really? But you know, I get it. Success is status, status sounds like it should feel good. More success must feel more good. Heck, I can make WHAT in 2 years time? See you in five minutes!
I think a lot of people are overlooking how good Duran really is. And that is to say, not as good as many are making him out to be. He is still very raw. He is wildly unpredictable in how he plays, which is exciting and makes for good viewing, and he has hit a purple patch, but he's a long way from being an 80m player right now. He has lots of potentially because he strikes the ball really, really well, but Villa picking up nearly 80m for a second choice striker, that they signed for 10m, is great business. Duran, with regular minutes, could easily go on to become a top, top level striker, but he could also very much fail to fulfill that potential. If people remember, there have been stories in the past about his attitude being a problem. A few examples:
https://www.teamtalk.com/aston-vill...on-villa-poor-attitude-handful-coaches-report
https://www.claretandhugh.info/jhon-durans-red-flag-attitude-transfet-stance-explained/
https://onefootball.com/en/news/jho...-aston-villa-after-reports-of-issues-38631081
https://www.footballinsider247.com/...onal-but-difficult-for-aston-villa-to-manage/
Players like that can be time bombs. I am not saying he WILL become a problem in the future, but he certainly has had off the field, disciplinary issues in the past. All in all, even though in the short term it might look bad to lose Duran, the amount of money they are getting, and the potential for reinvestment, probably makes this a very good deal for Villa. Assuming, of course, they can replicate the sort of scouting that brought him there in the first place.
For Duran's part, I think it can be both understandable that he is going to SA at this age - to earn what is likely a mind boggling amount of money - and also acknowledge what a shame it is to see an exciting, unpredictable young player head to such a shit league, before he really got going in his career. It does seem like a bit of a death knell on him ever being a top level player, to go there in his key development years and potentially his prime. At the same time, potentially making multiple nine figures over the course of his contract (tax free).....well there is a lot more to life than just football, and lot more life to be lived after football than during it.
https://www.teamtalk.com/aston-vill...on-villa-poor-attitude-handful-coaches-report
https://www.claretandhugh.info/jhon-durans-red-flag-attitude-transfet-stance-explained/
https://onefootball.com/en/news/jho...-aston-villa-after-reports-of-issues-38631081
https://www.footballinsider247.com/...onal-but-difficult-for-aston-villa-to-manage/
Players like that can be time bombs. I am not saying he WILL become a problem in the future, but he certainly has had off the field, disciplinary issues in the past. All in all, even though in the short term it might look bad to lose Duran, the amount of money they are getting, and the potential for reinvestment, probably makes this a very good deal for Villa. Assuming, of course, they can replicate the sort of scouting that brought him there in the first place.
For Duran's part, I think it can be both understandable that he is going to SA at this age - to earn what is likely a mind boggling amount of money - and also acknowledge what a shame it is to see an exciting, unpredictable young player head to such a shit league, before he really got going in his career. It does seem like a bit of a death knell on him ever being a top level player, to go there in his key development years and potentially his prime. At the same time, potentially making multiple nine figures over the course of his contract (tax free).....well there is a lot more to life than just football, and lot more life to be lived after football than during it.
At a certain point a decision has to be made by footballers. If they double/triple/quadruple your wages, you'd be a fool not to consider it.
It is generational money if you know how to manage it wisely. A lot of footballers go broke and it doesn't happen just like that. As long as we don't face the same dilemma, it's unfair to judge them. Besides who knows the kinda "gifts" he could receive on top of his official wages.
To be fair, he does a couple of years in Saudi now, earns insane cash, he is still only 23 and can easily move back to a top flight league. It might even be a better shout for a player to get those real "earning" years in early, and then do what they want and go where they want for the rest of their career.
players divorce as well. meaning, they have to share what they've earned, so it's probably another factor.
This is like when Oscar went to China for the ££££
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