Joao Gomes

[Ekeke]

Ehhhhh the point I'm clearly making is that excellent players can be part of terrible/relegated teams and we shouldn't rule out signing them because the team is terrible.

Antonee Robinson was part of a team that got relegated from the championship, was then part of a Fulham team that got relegated from the premier league. He'd be better than every left back we have and have had for years.

Robertson at Liverpool was relegated in the same team as Harry Maguire, Gini Wijnaldum was relegated.

Michael Carrick was relegated with West Ham.

Sure they can be, but can you even give me a list of 3 midfielders we signed from a team that was relegated that season at all in the past 20 years? Let alone good ones that succeeded?

We're in this thread talking about a former PSG midfielder who isnt doing the business. We far more often sign a player that is surplus at a team like PSG or Bayern, or a team around the europa league places. We do get linked to plenty of players at relegation clubs though like Dibling at Southampton last season. When it came to actually bidding we didnt and we signed 2 of the best players in the league in what would be his position instead. So not only does it not seem like a very good idea but its also most likely completely made up and not something that will actually happen, likely coming from his agent trying to get a club like Everton interested in the player a club who is a lot less likely to try and sign a player from a relatively big european side.

Its possible that we can sign a midfielder from a club in the relegation zone and they can be a good midfielder for us for a couple of years. However its entirely improbable

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

Sure they can be, but can you even give me a list of 3 midfielders we signed from a team that was relegated that season at all in the past 20 years? Let alone good ones that succeeded?

We're in this thread talking about a former PSG midfielder who isnt doing the business. We far more often sign a player that is surplus at a team like PSG or Bayern, or a team around the europa league places. We do get linked to plenty of players at relegation clubs though like Dibling at Southampton last season. When it came to actually bidding we didnt and we signed 2 of the best players in the league in what would be his position instead. So not only does it not seem like a very good idea but its also most likely completely made up and not something that will actually happen, likely coming from his agent trying to get a club like Everton interested in the player a club who is a lot less likely to try and sign a player from a relatively big european side.

Its possible that we can sign a midfielder from a club in the relegation zone and they can be a good midfielder for us for a couple of years. However its entirely improbable

Can you give me a list of 3 midfielders that we've signed from Lique 1 at all in the past 20 years? Let alone good ones that succeeded?

See I can make up random criteria too.

By your logic if Nottingham Forrest get relegated this season we shouldn't sign Elliot Anderson.

 

[golden_blunder]

What’s your cut of the transfer fee?

 

[SoCross]

If Mainoo is heading out on loan, can see this happening in January.

Ugarte makes a move in the summer and Gomes takes his place in the squad.

 

[Ikon]

Bottom line, I don’t think he moves the needle very much at all. We’d replace complaints about Ugarte to complaints about Gomes

This.
In a nutshell.

A decent PL performer, but he isn't going to take you to where you want to be.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Can you give me a list of 3 midfielders that we've signed from Lique 1 at all in the past 20 years? Let alone good ones that succeeded?

See I can make up random criteria too.

By your logic if Nottingham Forrest get relegated this season we shouldn't sign Elliot Anderson.

If your only yardstick for signing someone is “they’re better than Ugarte” then you’re ruling in a lot of players. It’s the same reason I wouldn’t want someone like Connor Gallagher. Yes, he’d be more useful that Ugarte, but he’s not going to move the needle.

From rubbish to bang average is not what we need.

 

[golden_blunder]

If Mainoo is heading out on loan, can see this happening in January.

Ugarte makes a move in the summer and Gomes takes his place in the squad.

I hope not

 

[SoCross]

I hope not

It’s Anderson + one for me!

Wharton, Baleba for the “one” preferred but Gomes would be a cheaper option for sure, which might come to play if we are eyeing a LWB as well in the summer.

 

[golden_blunder]

It’s Anderson + one for me!

Wharton, Baleba for the “one” preferred but Gomes would be a cheaper option for sure, which might come to play if we are eyeing a LWB as well in the summer.

I just don’t see the logic in adding someone just because they are cheaper. He’s not gonna move the needle. At all. So what’s the point? We may as well ring fence that additional spot for Kone or Fletcher to develop further.

I’d rather buy players that will raise the levels and save any left over money towards the next similar type of purchase

Let’s stop buying average players to fill the squad

 

[ron86]

I just don’t see the logic in adding someone just because they are cheaper. He’s not gonna move the needle. At all. So what’s the point? We may as well ring fence that additional spot for Kone or Fletcher to develop further.

I’d rather buy players that will raise the levels and save any left over money towards the next similar type of purchase

Let’s stop buying average players to fill the squad

Exactly this. We keep buying average players we say are better than what we have who just end up being squad filler. We need players who will come in to start and make our first 11 much better, the players they replace in the first team then get pushed to squad players.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

So Monday confirmed to me how I saw Joao Gomes and Andre as the same person. Bloody hell.

So Gomes didn't play against us - due to yellow card accumulation I gather.

I thought Andre was atrocious against us.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Exactly this. We keep buying average players we say are better than what we have who just end up being squad filler. We need players who will come in to start and make our first 11 much better, the players they replace in the first team then get pushed to squad players.

I know they overlapped, but it’d be like replacing Rojo with Lindelof. Sure, the latter was better, but I’d rather neither.

 

[RedSky]

I'd go for Rúben Neves. He'd be cheaper, got bags of PL experience, used to be Wolves skipper so likes to take on responsibility and is a leader. A decent age too. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I'd go for Rúben Neves. He'd be cheaper, got bags of PL experience, used to be Wolves skipper so likes to take on responsibility and is a leader. A decent age too. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I was thinking of him the other day. I just worry if playing at such a low level might have dropped his sharpness.

Class player though and definitely gettable.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

I'd go for Rúben Neves. He'd be cheaper, got bags of PL experience, used to be Wolves skipper so likes to take on responsibility and is a leader. A decent age too. Seems like a no brainer to me.

If you think Kobbie hasn’t got the physical attributes to play in our midfield…

 

[SoCross]

I just don’t see the logic in adding someone just because they are cheaper. He’s not gonna move the needle. At all. So what’s the point? We may as well ring fence that additional spot for Kone or Fletcher to develop further.

I’d rather buy players that will raise the levels and save any left over money towards the next similar type of purchase

Let’s stop buying average players to fill the squad

I agree with you but there’s a chance we maybe losing Casemiro and Kobbie next summer, hierarchy may eye a budget option to fill the squad. But like you said, rather Kone or Fletcher be given minutes.

We shall see, big couple of transfer windows coming up.

 

[Paul778]

It’s Anderson + one for me!

Wharton, Baleba for the “one” preferred but Gomes would be a cheaper option for sure, which might come to play if we are eyeing a LWB as well in the summer.

If Bruno and Casemiro are off and we still don't see a player in Ugarte, maybe it's more.

Potentially Fletcher or Kone could contribute but also we are hopefully getting european football.

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

If your only yardstick for signing someone is “they’re better than Ugarte” then you’re ruling in a lot of players. It’s the same reason I wouldn’t want someone like Connor Gallagher. Yes, he’d be more useful that Ugarte, but he’s not going to move the needle.

From rubbish to bang average is not what we need.

It's not my only yardstick. I'm going to quote my own message since you seem to have missed it as you didn't answer any of the things I asked.

You quoted the above post from Blunder which refers to sub 50m players as "sticking plasters" that need replacing in 3-5 years with "Completely agree" and then cited Arsenal under Arteta, apparently unaware that massive portions of the current Arsenal side were signed for less than 50m I.E Saliba/Gabriel/Odegaarrd/Martinelli.



If you're fully in favour of us signing players for sub 50m then what are you "completely agreeing" with Blunder on?



How would United signing Joao Gomes be any deviation from Arsenal's transfer strategy under Arteta?

What’s your cut of the transfer fee?

You seem to have missed it one as well:

You didn't know all of those players would move the needle before they signed did you? How do you know if a player is going to before they've arrived and started performing?

We cannot say that about Gomes because he hasn't signed yet.

 

[golden_blunder]

You’re arguing far more for Gomes than anyone else is. What gives?

 

[Ekeke]

Can you give me a list of 3 midfielders that we've signed from Lique 1 at all in the past 20 years? Let alone good ones that succeeded?

See I can make up random criteria too.

By your logic if Nottingham Forrest get relegated this season we shouldn't sign Elliot Anderson.

When did I say we should sign a midfielder from ligue 1? I mean I think there are some good ones, I just didnt say we should. I might say it in the future though

Regardless its Eric Djemba-Djemba, Ugarte and Paul Pogba - Djemba was 22 years ago so just outside but its a lot closer than the 0 names and 0 effort you came up with.

Are Nottingham Forest going to get relegated this season? Is that your bet? What are you willing to bet?

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

You’re arguing far more for Gomes than anyone else is. What gives?

You're ignoring the question. What gives?

When did I say we should sign a midfielder from ligue 1? I mean I think there are some good ones, I just didnt say we should. I might say it in the future though

Regardless its Eric Djemba-Djemba, Ugarte and Paul Pogba - Djemba was 22 years ago so just outside but its a lot closer than the 0 names and 0 effort you came up with.

Are Nottingham Forest going to get relegated this season? Is that your bet? What are you willing to bet?

Do you always miss the point this badly?

I've got an idea, how about instead of having nonsensical criteria for signings we just focus on how that player performs via analytics? That way if you have an excellent player on a bad team you don't miss out on him.

The point since apparently it needs to be spelt out is that EVEN IF Forrest got relegated it should be clear via even the most basic understanding of statistics that we should sign Anderson. The same analytics and process shows that Joao Gomes is a very good player with the profile we need.

In the summer I made countless posts on why we should sign Elliot Anderson and was met with lots of Golden Blunder esque posts about how he "doesn't move the needle" or "I took a look at the reddit thread and this poster said" etc etc

That manutd highlights is a painful watch.

His pass completion is very poor. In a midfield with Bruno trying hollywood passes I am not sure he is the fit for ball control. Looks great defensively though.

The suggestion of signing Elliot Anderson is almost as stupid as when we were heavily linked with Sean Longstaff a while ago.

I'm going to base my opinion on who we should sign according to how they actually perform in quantifiable data. Not vibes, not reddit posters, not eye tests, not made up metrics like "move the needle" and certainly not anything along the lines of "yeah yeah great stats and all but his team is terrible".

 

[Trigestis]

I'm going to base my opinion on who we should sign according to how they actually perform in quantifiable data. Not vibes, not reddit posters, not eye tests, not made up metrics like "move the needle" and certainly not anything along the lines of "yeah yeah great stats and all but his team is terrible".

One would think we're talking about Pedri the way you're going on about Joao Gomes in here. You don't need statistics to see that Pedri, Vitinha, Rice, Caicedo, Joao Neves or even Anderson are great midfielders, and very, very few watch Joao Gomes and think "wow, what an excellent player". He is good at best, and yes, the eye tests matter, and not some cherry picked statistics. I can also cherry pick some statistics to counter your stats; he is in the bottom percentile for challenges lost, miscontrols, dispossessed, fouling, goals, key passes and assists etc. What does he do that make you think we should pay £50m for him? Have you watched him yourself or are you just scrolling through statistic websites to make your claims?

And by now I think everyone are aware of you mentioning Anderson early. You also talked a lot about Kevin who is now playing for Fulham and not exactly lighting it up.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

You're ignoring the question. What gives?

Do you always miss the point this badly?

I've got an idea, how about instead of having nonsensical criteria for signings we just focus on how that player performs via analytics? That way if you have an excellent player on a bad team you don't miss out on him.

The point since apparently it needs to be spelt out is that EVEN IF Forrest got relegated it should be clear via even the most basic understanding of statistics that we should sign Anderson. The same analytics and process shows that Joao Gomes is a very good player with the profile we need.

In the summer I made countless posts on why we should sign Elliot Anderson and was met with lots of Golden Blunder esque posts about how he "doesn't move the needle" or "I took a look at the reddit thread and this poster said" etc etc





I'm going to base my opinion on who we should sign according to how they actually perform in quantifiable data. Not vibes, not reddit posters, not eye tests, not made up metrics like "move the needle" and certainly not anything along the lines of "yeah yeah great stats and all but his team is terrible".

So you see football as maths? Great.

Data is useful but needs placing in context along with things like “eye test”. The data said Lukaku was good; I spent 2 seasons crying at his first touch. The data said Onana was going to revolutionise our play from the back; I said he’d be the worst signing for the whole league the season he’d joined because I’d seen how erratic he was at Ajax.

It’s fairly obvious you’re in love with Joao Gomes. No one else is, we think he’s mediocre. You crack on.

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

One would think we're talking about Pedri the way you're going on about Joao Gomes in here. You don't need statistics to see that Pedri, Vitinha, Rice, Caicedo, Joao Neves or even Anderson are great midfielders, and very, very few watch Joao Gomes and think "wow, what an excellent player". He is good at best, and yes, the eye tests matter, and not some cherry picked statistics. I can also cherry pick some statistics to counter your stats; he is in the bottom percentile for challenges lost, miscontrols, dispossessed, fouling, goals, key passes and assists etc. What does he do that make you think we should pay £50m for him? Have you watched him yourself or are you just scrolling through statistic websites to make your claims?

And by now I think everyone are aware of you mentioning Anderson early. You also talked a lot about Kevin who is now playing for Fulham and not exactly lighting it up.

If you don't need statistics to see that Anderson and Neves are great players then why did so many people argue against signing them? Or why didn't we sign them?

What relevance is Caicedo or Rice exactly? Are you under the impression that we have a chance to sign these players or that I'm arguing we should sign Gomes instead of them?

Your attempt to make use of statistics here is fairly laughable and only goes to demonstrate you have zero clue what you're talking about. Yes Joao Gomes is in the bottom percentile for challenges lost but do you know who is in the bottom 1% and even lower??? Elliot Anderson!!- now the reason that both Anderson and Gomes are in the lowest percentile is because both of them actually make lots of challenges.

It's easy to be in the top 99% of midfielders in the "challenges lost" category when you just don't attempt to tackle anyone. N'golo Kante was also very low in the "challenges lost" stats, so is Casemiro. I guess they're both bad at tackling too.

So you see football as maths? Great.

Data is useful but needs placing in context along with things like “eye test”. The data said Lukaku was good; I spent 2 seasons crying at his first touch. The data said Onana was going to revolutionise our play from the back; I said he’d be the worst signing for the whole league the season he’d joined because I’d seen how erratic he was at Ajax.

It’s fairly obvious you’re in love with Joao Gomes. No one else is, we think he’s mediocre. You crack on.

I don't see football as math, you're making strawman arguments because your posts are fairly indefensible.

Analytics is a very powerful tool to help make much more informed decisions and it's a tool that is being utilised to great effect by our biggest rivals. Data is simply a way of quantifying what's happening on the pitch. So when random eye test bob says that player X isn't good at say "tackles" or "dribbles" but a large data set which is completely devoid of emotion or human bias says that he's actually very good at both then the intelligent decision would be to put more trust in analytics than random bloke down at the pub or on Redcafe.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

If you don't need statistics to see that Anderson and Neves are great players then why did so many people argue against signing them? Or why didn't we sign them?

What relevance is Caicedo or Rice exactly? Are you under the impression that we have a chance to sign these players or that I'm arguing we should sign Gomes instead of them?

Your attempt to make use of statistics here is fairly laughable and only goes to demonstrate you have zero clue what you're talking about. Yes Joao Gomes is in the bottom percentile for challenges lost but do you know who is in the bottom 1% and even lower??? Elliot Anderson!!- now the reason that both Anderson and Gomes are in the lowest percentile is because both of them actually make lots of challenges.

It's easy to be in the top 99% of midfielders in the "challenges lost" category when you just don't attempt to tackle anyone. N'golo Kante was also very low in the "challenges lost" stats, so is Casemiro. I guess they're both bad at tackling too.

I don't see football as math, you're making strawman arguments because your posts are fairly indefensible.

Analytics is a very powerful tool to help make much more informed decisions and it's a tool that is being utilised to great effect by our biggest rivals. Data is simply a way of quantifying what's happening on the pitch. So when random eye test bob says that player X isn't good at say "tackles" or "dribbles" but a large data set which is completely devoid of emotion or human bias says that he's actually very good at both then the intelligent decision would be to put more trust in analytics than random bloke down at the pub or on Redcafe.

I reckon you’d be better chatting with yourself, pal. Or perhaps to a framed picture of Joao Gomes.

 

[Trigestis]

If you don't need statistics to see that Anderson and Neves are great players then why did so many people argue against signing them? Or why didn't we sign them?

What relevance is Caicedo or Rice exactly? Are you under the impression that we have a chance to sign these players or that I'm arguing we should sign Gomes instead of them?

Your attempt to make use of statistics here is fairly laughable and only goes to demonstrate you have zero clue what you're talking about. Yes Joao Gomes is in the bottom percentile for challenges lost but do you know who is in the bottom 1% and even lower??? Elliot Anderson!!- now the reason that both Anderson and Gomes are in the lowest percentile is because both of them actually make lots of challenges.

It's easy to be in the top 99% of midfielders in the "challenges lost" category when you just don't attempt to tackle anyone. N'golo Kante was also very low in the "challenges lost" stats, so is Casemiro. I guess they're both bad at tackling too.

I've never seen anyone argue against signing Joao Neves, not from Benfica, and especially not now. Anderson is supposedly on top of our list. Not sure what point you are trying to make here? Fans could find a way to argue against signing Messi from Barcelona after his last season, Verratti or Cavani or literally anyone else.

The relevance is that they are great midfielders that you don't statistics to know they are, and our targets should at least be anywhere near in terms of quality, and not players like Joao Gomes.

Your superiority complex when it comes to statistics or analysis is unmatched on this forum. This must be the 15th time I've seen you post "you have zero clue what you're talking about", "you're clueless" or "you have no idea what you're talking about" because someone merely points to a statistic that seems to go against what you believe. I don't know why you're always so aggressive in your posts, almost like you're here just to lecture people, and you certainly show no interest in actually having a normal discussion with others here.

Back on topic; It is quite obvious, and it wasn't really that serious. It's just to demonstrate that all these percentiles arguments you use look silly in isolation. You're talking about progressive passes and him being 70th or whatever, but you don't need to watch many games to see that he is a mediocre passer of the ball, and not at all "progressive" in the sense of what we expect that to look like at United. Joao Gomes is also the most dribbled past midfielder in the league, and at the absolute bottom percentile. We can go back and forth with these percentiles statistics, but everything points to him being quite mediocre, and not someone that will make us much better. Somehow, we have this brilliant midfielder available for £50m, yet no top clubs (or even any club?) seem to be showing much interest, which should tell you everything you need to know. He is almost 25 years old, not some kid just getting into the league and showing potential.

I literally just checked any random PL midfielder (Ibrahim Sangaré) and his stats looked similar (and better) to Joao Gomes. Maybe we should pay up for him too, and continue this mediocrity.

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

I reckon you’d be better chatting with yourself, pal. Or perhaps to a framed picture of Joao Gomes.

Yet here you are, still desperately trying to save face after making numerous indefensible posts.

I've never seen anyone argue against signing Joao Neves, not from Benfica, and especially not now. Anderson is supposedly on top of our list. Not sure what point you are trying to make here? Fans could find a way to argue against signing Messi from Barcelona after his last season, Verratti or Cavani or literally anyone else.

The relevance is that they are great midfielders that you don't statistics to know they are, and our targets should at least be anywhere near in terms of quality, and not players like Joao Gomes.

Your superiority complex when it comes to statistics or analysis is unmatched on this forum. This must be the 15th time I've seen you post "you have zero clue what you're talking about", "you're clueless" or "you have no idea what you're talking about" because someone merely points to a statistic that seems to go against what you believe. I don't know why you're always so aggressive in your posts, almost like you're here just to lecture people, and you certainly show no interest in actually having a normal discussion with others here.

Back on topic; It is quite obvious, and it wasn't really that serious. It's just to demonstrate that all these percentiles arguments you use look silly in isolation. You're talking about progressive passes and him being 70th or whatever, but you don't need to watch many games to see that he is a mediocre passer of the ball, and not at all "progressive" in the sense of what we expect that to look like at United. Joao Gomes is also the most dribbled past midfielder in the league, and at the absolute bottom percentile. We can go back and forth with these percentiles statistics, but everything points to him being quite mediocre, and not someone that will make us much better. Somehow, we have this brilliant midfielder available for £50m, yet no top clubs (or even any club?) seem to be showing much interest, which should tell you everything you need to know. He is almost 25 years old, not some kid just getting into the league and showing potential.

I literally just checked any random PL midfielder (Ibrahim Sangaré) and his stats looked similar (and better) to Joao Gomes. Maybe we should pay up for him too, and continue this mediocrity.

When a poster claims that Joao Gomes has good progressive passing numbers because he's in a Wolves team that defends a lot and thus it's easier to make progressive passes I or any other poster are well within our rights to point out that this person doesn't have a clue what they're talking about since the literal definition of progressive passes excludes passes from the defensive 40% of the pitch.

Likewise when someone (in this case you) tries to claim that Joao Gomes being in the bottom percentile of challenges lost is a metric that shows him in a bad light I will point out that this clearly demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about since most of the players who are very low in this category are players who makes lots of tackles I.E Gomes/Anderson/Casemiro/Kante.

The true ignorance is posters such as yourself who quite frankly do no nothing about analytics but yet seem determined to make lots of posts dismissing it and then get upset when they're made to look foolish. You would be much better off if you just admitted that you don't know much about it and instead committed yourself to learning, if you have no interest in learning then fine but don't start making posts about how to interpret statistics.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Yet here you are, still desperately trying to save face after making numerous indefensible posts.

When a poster claims that Joao Gomes has good progressive passing numbers because he's in a Wolves team that defends a lot and thus it's easier to make progressive passes I or any other poster are well within our rights to point out that this person doesn't have a clue what they're talking about since the literal definition of progressive passes excludes passes from the defensive 40% of the pitch.

Likewise when someone (in this case you) tries to claim that Joao Gomes being in the bottom percentile of challenges lost is a metric that shows him in a bad light I will point out that this clearly demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about since most of the players who are very low in this category are players who makes lots of tackles I.E Gomes/Anderson/Casemiro/Kante.

The true ignorance is posters such as yourself who quite frankly do no nothing about analytics but yet seem determined to make lots of posts dismissing it and then get upset when they're made to look foolish. You would be much better off if you just admitted that you don't know much about it and instead committed yourself to learning, if you have no interest in learning then fine but don't start making posts about how to interpret statistics.

Firstly, chum, “indefensible”? It’s a Man United forum discussing an average Wolves midfielder. This isn’t a discussion of Gaza in the UN Security Council.

Secondly, I see you’ve glossed over how a previous poster has called out your conduct and tone? If you want people to engage with you and discuss the merits of your argument, maybe don’t be overtly haughty, indignant and condescending and they will do.

I’m sure the smell of your own farts are delicious up there on your high horse, but maybe give it a rest, eh? You’re coming across as a right tw*t.

 

[golden_blunder]

Yet here you are, still desperately trying to save face after making numerous indefensible posts.

When a poster claims that Joao Gomes has good progressive passing numbers because he's in a Wolves team that defends a lot and thus it's easier to make progressive passes I or any other poster are well within our rights to point out that this person doesn't have a clue what they're talking about since the literal definition of progressive passes excludes passes from the defensive 40% of the pitch.

Likewise when someone (in this case you) tries to claim that Joao Gomes being in the bottom percentile of challenges lost is a metric that shows him in a bad light I will point out that this clearly demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about since most of the players who are very low in this category are players who makes lots of tackles I.E Gomes/Anderson/Casemiro/Kante.

The true ignorance is posters such as yourself who quite frankly do no nothing about analytics but yet seem determined to make lots of posts dismissing it and then get upset when they're made to look foolish. You would be much better off if you just admitted that you don't know much about it and instead committed yourself to learning, if you have no interest in learning then fine but don't start making posts about how to interpret statistics.

This post reeks of condescending arrogance

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

Firstly, chum, “indefensible”? It’s a Man United forum discussing an average Wolves midfielder. This isn’t a discussion of Gaza in the UN Security Council.

Secondly, I see you’ve glossed over how a previous poster has called out your conduct and tone? If you want people to engage with you and discuss the merits of your argument, maybe don’t be overtly haughty, indignant and condescending and they will do.

I’m sure the smell of your own farts are delicious up there on your high horse, but maybe give it a rest, eh? You’re coming across as a right tw*t.

I reckon you’d be better chatting with yourself, pal. Or perhaps to a framed picture of Joao Gomes.

I was just trying to post at your level.

This post reeks of condescending arrogance

What’s your cut of the transfer fee?

Ditto

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

I was just trying to post at your level.



Ditto

I just can’t believe you’ve not got enough upvotes to no longer be a “newbie”. It’s a real mystery how that’s happened…

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

I just can’t believe you’ve not got enough upvotes to no longer be a “newbie”. It’s a real mystery how that’s happened…

Everyone knows you can't get promoted in analytics until you've been promoted on the caf.

Question 1 is: Describe Arsenal's transfer strategy? Best answer on the caf is "Spend TOP DOLLAR EVERY SUMMER" apparently.

Try to not mention Gabriel/Saliba/Martinelli/Odegaard or data. Only Vibes and moving needles are accepted currency here.

 

[Cheimoon]

I just can’t believe you’ve not got enough upvotes to no longer be a “newbie”. It’s a real mystery how that’s happened…

They're still a newbie. Or rather, were.

Everyone knows you can't get promoted in analytics until you've been promoted on the caf.

Question 1 is: Describe Arsenal's transfer strategy? Best answer on the caf is "Spend TOP DOLLAR EVERY SUMMER" apparently.

Try to not mention Gabriel/Saliba/Martinelli/Odegaard or data. Only Vibes and moving needles are accepted currency here.

We have had this discussion a few times now, and first asked you and then insisted to lower your tone and stop constantly belittling other posters. Cause even if you were right about everything and an infinite source of wisdom and insights, and everyone else were bumbling idiots, we would want to see polite conversation. You're done here.

 

[Ekeke]

You're ignoring the question. What gives?

Do you always miss the point this badly?

I've got an idea, how about instead of having nonsensical criteria for signings we just focus on how that player performs via analytics? That way if you have an excellent player on a bad team you don't miss out on him.

The point since apparently it needs to be spelt out is that EVEN IF Forrest got relegated it should be clear via even the most basic understanding of statistics that we should sign Anderson. The same analytics and process shows that Joao Gomes is a very good player with the profile we need.

In the summer I made countless posts on why we should sign Elliot Anderson and was met with lots of Golden Blunder esque posts about how he "doesn't move the needle" or "I took a look at the reddit thread and this poster said" etc etc





I'm going to base my opinion on who we should sign according to how they actually perform in quantifiable data. Not vibes, not reddit posters, not eye tests, not made up metrics like "move the needle" and certainly not anything along the lines of "yeah yeah great stats and all but his team is terrible".

Ah so your argument is it doesnt matter what you say, got it

You're taken to task and still cant defend yourself. Jesus.

Forest arent going to get relegated, but if they were I'd personally hope we dont sign Anderson for a large amount of money. Being relegated is part of the smell test for whether someone should be a valuable transfer. I'm not saying I wouldnt take him for free if Forest are relegated. I'm not saying we shouldnt take Joao Gomes for free if Wolves are relegated. Anderson is obviously a good young player regardless of what happens to Forest, but if hes their best player and helps keep them up he's obviously worth more than if hes their best player and they are relegated. Its that simple and if you don't understand it thats on you

 

[The Real No7]

Ah so your argument is it doesnt matter what you say, got it

You're taken to task and still cant defend yourself. Jesus.

Forest arent going to get relegated, but if they were I'd personally hope we dont sign Anderson for a large amount of money. Being relegated is part of the smell test for whether someone should be a valuable transfer. I'm not saying I wouldnt take him for free if Forest are relegated. I'm not saying we shouldnt take Joao Gomes for free if Wolves are relegated. Anderson is obviously a good young player regardless of what happens to Forest, but if hes their best player and helps keep them up he's obviously worth more than if hes their best player and they are relegated. Its that simple and if you don't understand it thats on you

Wasn't Roy Keane signed for a British record when Forest got relegated?

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Wasn't Roy Keane signed for a British record when Forest got relegated?

Yes, but it’s not really relevant because it was over 30 years ago and his manager was a full blown alcoholic. It was very, VERY different times.

 

[Adnan]

This thread was funny to read..

As far as Gomes himself is concerned, he definitely wouldn't move the needle on his own in midfield but could possibly be a good squad player to have in the team. But for what he would potentially cost, I think we could get a similar type of combative box to box type for a cheaper price from abroad.

Also to weigh in briefly on the analytics side of things. Analytics is a useful tool to utilise when identifying players. But the analytics side is only effectively utilised when you know what you're looking for and how you want to play from the back, into midfield and then into a higher line which leads on to how you collectively apply the press from the front.

Arteta at Arsenal understood this and their signings were centred around a vision of football which was to dominate all phases of play by having build up capabilities from the back and into midfield and also having the ability to manage space in a higher line to compress the pitch and aid the front line when applying the front press.

So what Arsenal and Liverpool (under Klopp) did, was to sign players in the first two lines who have the pace and power to manage space and also as a collective unit in the first phase, progress the ball through the thirds by threading the lines. When you know what you're looking for, then 99% of the job is done and then data analytics will provide the incremental gains.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

This thread was funny to read..

As far as Gomes himself is concerned, he definitely wouldn't move the needle on his own in midfield but could possibly be a good squad player to have in the team. But for what he would potentially cost, I think we could get a similar type of combative box to box type for a cheaper price from abroad.

Also to weigh in briefly on the analytics side of things. Analytics is a useful tool to utilise when identifying players. But the analytics side is only effectively utilised when you know what you're looking for and how you want to play from the back, into midfield and then into a higher line which leads on to how you collectively apply the press from the front.

Arteta at Arsenal understood this and their signings were centred around a vision of football which was to dominate all phases of play by having build up capabilities from the back and into midfield and also having the ability to manage space in a higher line to compress the pitch and aid the front line when applying the front press.

So what Arsenal and Liverpool (under Klopp) did, was to sign players in the first two lines who have the pace and power to manage space and also as a collective unit in the first phase, progress the ball through the thirds by threading the lines. When you know what you're looking for, then 99% of the job is done and then data analytics will provide the incremental gains.

How dare you be so rational and reasonable?! Joao Gomes is the reincarnation of Nobby Stiles and Duncan Edwards and if you don’t agree, you’re puny, feeble and weak minded! The data says so.

 

[always_score99]

MOTM for me vs Liverpool, totally dominated their midfield.

6 tackles (most of any player)
4 dribbles (most of any player)
46 passes (most of Wolves players)

Would love to see what his sprint numbers are because even when he doesn't win the ball he's constantly closing down opposition/space with so much intensity. Mbeumo had among the very sprint numbers in the premier league before we signed him and the upgrade between him and Garnacho/Sancho is night and day.

This guy would be a really smart signing.

 

[Freak]

MOTM for me vs Liverpool, totally dominated their midfield.

6 tackles (most of any player)
4 dribbles (most of any player)
46 passes (most of Wolves players)

Would love to see what his sprint numbers are because even when he doesn't win the ball he's constantly closing down opposition/space with so much intensity. Mbeumo had among the very sprint numbers in the premier league before we signed him and the upgrade between him and Garnacho/Sancho is night and day.

This guy would be a really smart signing.

How’s his passing though? The style of play at wolves vs being at United is completely different. He’ll need to do more attacking and opening teams up with passing through the lines rather than just breakkng up play