Joao Neves

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The knee-jerking based around single games needs to be wound down. Doesn't common sense and extrapolation of what we've seen from other extremely highly valued players in this tournament not delivering as they do for their clubs, told you that? Or at least to factor it in when it comes to perspective?

There are very, very few players at this tournament delivering at the level their touted valuations state they should.
My post is not based on this game. We are not paying 80 million for anyone this summer and that’s their demand, so we move on.
 

Fortitude

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Agreed, he’s also very young, but it doesn’t entirely excuse such a nothing performance.

In addition to reducing the knee jerking, we need to stop the circle jerking over players like this lad. I’ve bet half the people in here saying he’s a must sign have watched very little of him outside of some highlights.
If people are going to go 1:1, you'll have a very serious challenge to find players living up to their billing. Even established stars aren't hitting that mark, which makes it really daft to cite Neves' valuation when even the aforementioned are looking worth nothing like what they've sold for.
 

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No one is asking for us to spend £100m on him. He's a talent and you need to pay for that, but I think he has the skills and potential to be absolutely class. Even if he only gets to the level of João Moutinho and not further, spending £60-70m on him at this age is wise. I think he'll go further personally, but I'd be more than happy if that's all he gets to.
 

The Irish Connection

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Could you specify where you see the potencial?
Yes. Firstly, he has a great attitude and work ethic off the ball. He is tenacious and a solid tackler with a good engine. He is good at getting to loose/second balls. He defends space well and maturely for his age, and he has a knack for interceptions. He’s obviously not a physical beast but is a good defender in midfield.
He is a good dribbler in tight spaces and he has a good range of passing.
For me, he is a defensive midfielder who can do a bit of everything and is good at starting counter attacks.

He could improve with forward, riskier passing. And he could maybe use his dribbling ability a bit more.

He is decent at getting on to the end of things in and around the box too but doesn’t get into those positions too often because he is more of a sweeper defensive midfielder at the moment.

I would love to see him in a United shirt but anything over 60m ish would be too much.
 

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Yes. Firstly, he has a great attitude and work ethic off the ball. He is tenacious and a solid tackler with a good engine. He is good at getting to loose/second balls. He defends space well and maturely for his age, and he has a knack for interceptions. He’s obviously not a physical beast but is a good defender in midfield.
He is a good dribbler in tight spaces and he has a good range of passing.
For me, he is a defensive midfielder who can do a bit of everything and is good at starting counter attacks.

He could improve with forward, riskier passing. And he could maybe use his dribbling ability a bit more.

He is decent at getting on to the end of things in and around the box too but doesn’t get into those positions too often because he is more of a sweeper defensive midfielder at the moment.

I would love to see him in a United shirt but anything over 60m ish would be too much.
I ' ve seen at least 30 games of him in the last 2 years, i mostly agree with your caracterization , but i don't see the potencial.
Physically his quite good for his size, the stamina too, i don't see him getting much better, on the air the same, small with good timing but i can't see him getting better than this.
He is a not that great dribbler in tight spaces and his passing his good/average, the high% in passes his because he doesn't do much progressive passes.
He is not like Renato Sanches or even Matheus Nunes going forward and not creative enough to a become an excelent MC or AM.
Just because his 20 it doesn't mean that he will get better in every aspect.
He is good, not great and in my personnal opinion i dont seem getting there, he is like Moutinho a good player very mature since a younger age.
Coming here, i would expect him to be the flop of the year. ("a bit of everything, not great at anything")
 
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Insanity

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The knee-jerking based around single games needs to be wound down. Doesn't common sense and extrapolation of what we've seen from other extremely highly valued players in this tournament not delivering as they do for their clubs, told you that? Or at least to factor it in when it comes to perspective?

There are very, very few players at this tournament delivering at the level their touted valuations state they should.
The hype based on a couple of hipster accounts touting a player and then them becoming a must buy, "If there is only one player we sign this summer....", needs to be kept in check too. I forget the name, but that Portuguese kid with dread locks who went to Bayern for 40m was hyped to the heavens in a similar manner and then his career didn't amount to very much. Sancho was a similar "must buy" and folks wanted us to buy him when BVB were quoting upwards of 100m for him. We all know how is that turning out.

The hype gets as knee-jerked as the writing off based on a single meaningless games.
 

daba

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Haven’t even watched the game but it’s crazy to see so many jump in calling him overrated, not worth anything close to 100m.

He’s evidently one of the best in his position around his age group, with many Benfica / Liga Nos fans who watch him weekly claiming he’s the real deal and will be sorely missed when he leaves.

It’s not like Mainoo hasn’t had a single below par performance and he’s the our supposed messiah.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Haven’t even watched the game but it’s crazy to see so many jump in calling him overrated, not worth anything close to 100m.

He’s evidently one of the best in his position around his age group, with many Benfica / Liga Nos fans who watch him weekly claiming he’s the real deal and will be sorely missed when he leaves.

It’s not like Mainoo hasn’t had a single below par performance and he’s the our supposed messiah.
Yeah calling a 19 year old footballer playing in the Portuguese league not worth anything close to 100m is what is crazy.
 

BaguetteBoy

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Don’t know much of him but a few reels on YouTube. I thing I know is that we need someone to replace Casemiro if he can come in and perform with the rest of the youngsters we will have a great future ahead
 

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There's plenty to like about him, especially his work rate off the ball, in and out of possession.
That being said, I still maintain that he's too small to be our deepest midfielder. We would just be creating a glaring weakness in our team. Liverpool, City and Arsenal don't have this.
Every punt upfield by the opposition will create a 2nd ball chance for them in our territory and every set piece will have us nervously biting our nails.
I reckon if we sign this player, in a couple of years, would be talking about need paulinha type behind him and Mainoo.
Again, not that he's a bad player, just not the player you spend 100m on right now with so many glaring needs.
 

In Rainbows

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He is a B player! I have written it before, a good player, with a lot of maturity for his age. Hyped because most people mistake age with potencial.
You're a Sporting fan. It's hard to see your judgement as not carrying over rival bias.
 

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The hype based on a couple of hipster accounts touting a player and then them becoming a must buy, "If there is only one player we sign this summer....", needs to be kept in check too. I forget the name, but that Portuguese kid with dread locks who went to Bayern for 40m was hyped to the heavens in a similar manner and then his career didn't amount to very much. Sancho was a similar "must buy" and folks wanted us to buy him when BVB were quoting upwards of 100m for him. We all know how is that turning out.

The hype gets as knee-jerked as the writing off based on a single meaningless games.
A body of work, albeit small trumps snap judgement over a single game, in a B team. The sample size isn’t as large as one would like, but the reality is that the market has been distorted to the point a number of players are sold on from that league for eye-watering fees for relatively small bodies of work and that’s not suddenly going to change because we - or anyone else - are interested in a star boy.

”Worth” is what buying parties are prepared to pay. Nothing more or less.
 

mikeyt

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Underwhelming performance, haven’t seen much of him before but he looked nothing special. I’m sure he’s better than that but throwing £100 million at him would be crazy. Half that with add ons would be more feasible, not that Benfica are accepting it. Maybe one for next summer
 

Insanity

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A body of work, albeit small trumps snap judgement over a single game, in a B team. The sample size isn’t as large as one would like, but the reality is that the market has been distorted to the point a number of players are sold on from that league for eye-watering fees for relatively small bodies of work and that’s not suddenly going to change because we - or anyone else - are interested in a star boy.

”Worth” is what buying parties are prepared to pay. Nothing more or less.
I don't think it matters whether its A or B Team, talent tends to shine through. Mainoo has played his entire senior football in what some would consider a United 'B' team. I agree that a body of work trumps a snap judgement over a single game. However, forming judgements based on YT videos or just because we are linked also don't hold much value.

The value has been distorted due to availability of excess cash and a limited availability of superior talent. Whether this is guy is it or not only time will tell. We, as a club, are not in a position of taking too many punts at those valuations on raw talent in our current state.

Worth is the value based on various factors. What the buying party is ready to pay is the worth to them, not necessarily the actual worth of the player in question.

PS: Renato Sanches was the Portuguese midfielder I was talking about in the previous post.
 

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I don't think it matters whether its A or B Team, talent tends to shine through. Mainoo has played his entire senior football in what some would consider a United 'B' team. I agree that a body of work trumps a snap judgement over a single game. However, forming judgements based on YT videos or just because we are linked also don't hold much value.

The value has been distorted due to availability of excess cash and a limited availability of superior talent. Whether this is guy is it or not only time will tell. We, as a club, are not in a position of taking too many punts at those valuations on raw talent in our current state.

Worth is the value based on various factors. What the buying party is ready to pay is the worth to them, not necessarily the actual worth of the player in question.

PS: Renato Sanches was the Portuguese midfielder I was talking about in the previous post.
I know who were referring to. If you check posts about him at the time, they were all over the place with no real consensus on his ability or why on earth so much was being spent on him.

Absolutely the market is set by the dearth of talent within it. Any glimmer of light then goes up in value with more suitors vying for them at an inflated rate, but - and this is the crux - clubs are meeting those valuations because their need outstrips other factors. A sure thing from yesteryear, like a Hazard tearing up ligue 1 for two seasons straight is certifiably *not* the currency of today’s market. Such a player now, doing what Hazard did then would be in a different market entirely to these fledglings being sold for fortunes off the back of a season, or even less than that.

Invariably, as interest grows in a young, touted talent, it is not YouTube people dial into, but the CL and perhaps bigger domestic games. There’s also no doubt whatsoever that these major tournaments also become a proving ground - more will snapshot against for a bad game or two in a major than will go for off of YT compilations, for example.
 

Captain Dangernoodle

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Could you specify where you see the potencial?
I ' ve seen at least 30 games of him in the last 2 years, i mostly agree with your caracterization , but i don't see the potencial.
Physically his quite good for his size, the stamina too, i don't see him getting much better, on the air the same, small with good timing but i can't see him getting better than this.
He is a not that great dribbler in tight spaces and his passing his good/average, the high% in passes his because he doesn't do much progressive passes.
He is not like Renato Sanches or even Matheus Nunes going forward and not creative enough to a become an excelent MC or AM.
Just because his 20 it doesn't mean that he will get better in every aspect.
He is good, not great and in my personnal opinion i dont seem getting there, he is like Moutinho a good player very mature since a younger age.
Coming here, i would expect him to be the flop of the year. ("a bit of everything, not great at anything")
No offence, mate, but as a Sporting fan, no one on here are going to take your opinions seriously regarding Joao Neves. It doesn't matter how many games you watch him when you watch with envy and hate. Just because you don't see him getting better in aspects of the game doesn't mean it's true. He is 20 years old, of course he will get better. He has sensational technique, decent passer and a fantastic dribbler. He has got incredible press resistance, can manipulate the ball like few other midfielders and is great defensively and aerially. It's funny you mention he is not someone that drives the ball forward when he is pretty good at it. A player with press resistance like that and the ability to change directions almost instantly combined with his dribbling is precisely why he is good at driving the ball forward. Not necessarily with a powerful drive like Yaya Touré or Renato Sanches, but he is more than good enough.

To suggest you don't see the potential with one of the most talented young midfielders in the world with an incredibly high ceiling is absurd.
 

The Irish Connection

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I ' ve seen at least 30 games of him in the last 2 years, i mostly agree with your caracterization , but i don't see the potencial.
Physically his quite good for his size, the stamina too, i don't see him getting much better, on the air the same, small with good timing but i can't see him getting better than this.
He is a not that great dribbler in tight spaces and his passing his good/average, the high% in passes his because he doesn't do much progressive passes.
He is not like Renato Sanches or even Matheus Nunes going forward and not creative enough to a become an excelent MC or AM.
Just because his 20 it doesn't mean that he will get better in every aspect.
He is good, not great and in my personnal opinion i dont seem getting there, he is like Moutinho a good player very mature since a younger age.
Coming here, i would expect him to be the flop of the year. ("a bit of everything, not great at anything")
Fair enough, that’s your view. I’ve watched him about a dozen times in the last year. I think you’re underrating his dribbling, but he doesn’t do it enough.
His defensive stats are excellent and he covers space well.
People are thinking that he is an 8 when he’s really more of a 6. Obviously in that position his height will be questioned.
His passing range is good. Not as good as the likes of Kroos, Pirlo or the all time greats but certainly above average. Better than Mainoo’s.
His defensive work rate and tenacity coupled with all round good technical ability is what makes him stand out for me.

But you’re correct in saying that he has work to do to become world class, and that he could plateau. But the same can be said for any young player including Mainoo.

For the right price I’d be delighted to have him at United.
 

The Irish Connection

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There was a class pass played along the ground right down the right wing in the second half yesterday that got Dalot in behind Georgias left fullback. Dalot then tried a first time cross to Ronaldo but didn’t pull it off/was intercepted.
Can anyone confirm that that pass was made by J. Neves? I thought it was but wasn’t paying full attention at the time.
Was a lovely pass.
 

luke511

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There was a class pass played along the ground right down the right wing in the second half yesterday that got Dalot in behind Georgias left fullback. Dalot then tried a first time cross to Ronaldo but didn’t pull it off/was intercepted.
Can anyone confirm that that pass was made by J. Neves? I thought it was but wasn’t paying full attention at the time.
Was a lovely pass.
At 1:02:
 

Albalder

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You're a Sporting fan. It's hard to see your judgement as not carrying over rival bias.
If i say that Gonçalo Inácio is not there yet, that mentaly and on one on one he has to became much better, does it help?
Does it help that, even after last night game in my opinion Antonio Silva would bring more to ManUnited than João Neves?
I'm not saying JNeves isn't good, there isn't a Portuguese that dosen't like the kid, his work rate and respect for the oposition.
I just don't see the 60-100k potencial, for me in Portugal with quality for Man united just Gyokeres and even that price is too much.
 

Albalder

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(...) Better than Mainoo’s.
His defensive work rate and tenacity coupled with all round good technical ability is what makes him stand out for me.
But you’re correct in saying that he has work to do to become world class, and that he could plateau. But the same can be said for any young player including Mainoo.
For the right price I’d be delighted to have him at United.
That were we diverge, i see the potencial on Mainoo and the risk to.
On Joao Neves i think he is always going to be a good player, no risks and no greatness.
By the way he must be one of the nicest portuguese young players, kind and respectful.
 

Albalder

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No offence, mate, but as a Sporting fan, no one on here are going to take your opinions seriously regarding Joao Neves. It doesn't matter how many games you watch him when you watch with envy and hate. Just because you don't see him getting better in aspects of the game doesn't mean it's true. He is 20 years old, of course he will get better. He has sensational technique, decent passer and a fantastic dribbler. He has got incredible press resistance, can manipulate the ball like few other midfielders and is great defensively and aerially. It's funny you mention he is not someone that drives the ball forward when he is pretty good at it. A player with press resistance like that and the ability to change directions almost instantly combined with his dribbling is precisely why he is good at driving the ball forward. Not necessarily with a powerful drive like Yaya Touré or Renato Sanches, but he is more than good enough.

To suggest you don't see the potential with one of the most talented young midfielders in the world with an incredibly high ceiling is absurd.
Im giving my opinion anyway, i expect you even being a man united fan can make judgement of players like Bernardo Silva, you might prefer BF but you can fairly judge BS.
I at leas expect that.
The respect his earned and i will be here.
 

PeteReDevil

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From watching this it seems like his play style is very similar to Mainoo. Maybe we need a different profile to pair Mainoo with. Of course his price tag makes this a non issue in the first place.
Agree with you. Our need for a proper DM is a bigger issue - regardless how good this guy is.
 

Insanity

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If he's not a proper DM we need to keep looking for a footballer who is a proper DM.
I don't think ETH wants a proper defensive midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. He is committed to this transtion football and is looking for an all action midfielder to pair with Mainoo or Mount. The same way he has tried to use Casemiro and failed as he doesn't have the legs to do that job. He has never used Case in the position he played for at Real Madrid.

All our links are to these kind of players too -him, Ugarte, Onana.
 

lex talionis

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I don't think ETH wants a proper defensive midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. He is committed to this transtion football and is looking for an all action midfielder to pair with Mainoo or Mount. The same way he has tried to use Casemiro and failed as he doesn't have the legs to do that job. He has never used Case in the position he played for at Real Madrid.

All our links are to these kind of players too -him, Ugarte, Onana.
I agree with your assessment, but I would be very concerned if United doesn't have at least one proper DM in the squad. As you say, Casemiro's legs are shot although if it made any sense to keep him as a squad player (but one on very high wages) then we could keep Casemiro on for mop up duty after our all action midfielders secure victory by the 75th minute...although I have my doubts that his ideas on transition football will ever work with the squad that he has now, even with a few reinforcements over the summer.
 

Hammondo

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I don't think ETH wants a proper defensive midfielder or a deep lying playmaker. He is committed to this transtion football and is looking for an all action midfielder to pair with Mainoo or Mount. The same way he has tried to use Casemiro and failed as he doesn't have the legs to do that job. He has never used Case in the position he played for at Real Madrid.

All our links are to these kind of players too -him, Ugarte, Onana.
I don't think that will work though.
 

Brwned

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I ' ve seen at least 30 games of him in the last 2 years, i mostly agree with your caracterization , but i don't see the potencial.
Physically his quite good for his size, the stamina too, i don't see him getting much better, on the air the same, small with good timing but i can't see him getting better than this.
He is a not that great dribbler in tight spaces and his passing his good/average, the high% in passes his because he doesn't do much progressive passes.
He is not like Renato Sanches or even Matheus Nunes going forward and not creative enough to a become an excelent MC or AM.
Just because his 20 it doesn't mean that he will get better in every aspect.
He is good, not great and in my personnal opinion i dont seem getting there, he is like Moutinho a good player very mature since a younger age.
Coming here, i would expect him to be the flop of the year. ("a bit of everything, not great at anything")
I can see the Moutinho comparison. Don’t you think he was good enough for a top team?
 

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If he turns out like Moutinho he'll be a class player most sides could do with. His ceiling is likely higher though, given how good he is at such a young age. And he looks stronger too, more robust. It's a shame that we have maybe different priorities at the moment, not least if he goes to PSG.
 

Albalder

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I can see the Moutinho comparison. Don’t you think he was good enough for a top team?
Maybe when he was at his best, (instead of Herrera?, they were a bit similar), but 11 starter at the ManUnited that we wish for is difficult.
 

Albalder

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If he turns out like Moutinho he'll be a class player most sides could do with. His ceiling is likely higher though, given how good he is at such a young age. And he looks stronger too, more robust. It's a shame that we have maybe different priorities at the moment, not least if he goes to PSG.
The comparison with Moutinho is because he was already that good and mature at 18.
Comparing both at the same age i would say that they have the same stamina, maturity and quality.
Neves is a bit more agressive, robust and better at heading, Moutinho would read the game quicker and better at controlling the speed of the game (worse defending but slightly better ofensively). That is my "bias" opinion.
 
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Mylock

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Neves is an outstanding talent that in an ideal world we would sign him up. I'd love to both him and Manuel Ugarte signed. Against top teams we would be able to play both Ugarte and Neves as the base and Bruno and Mainoo as yhe attacking midfielders. Unfortunately I can't see us signing him due to the cost.
 

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Neves is an outstanding talent that in an ideal world we would sign him up. I'd love to both him and Manuel Ugarte signed. Against top teams we would be able to play both Ugarte and Neves as the base and Bruno and Mainoo as yhe attacking midfielders. Unfortunately I can't see us signing him due to the cost.
Yeah just have to hope he is prepared to see out another year at Benfica then sign next summer
 

CtrlAltDeLigt

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However great he might be at the techincal and intensity side of things, I don’t see him being the solution right now.

To some degree, we already have a midfielder performing beyond his age. A Midfield of Bruno, Mainoo needs a strong physical presence, aggressive and almost like a Casemiro from 6 years back.

Ugarte is probably the next target now, he might be a better answer if we don’t want to spend more than 40/50m in this position
 

Lash

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The comparison with Moutinho is because he was already that good and mature at 18.
Comparing both at the same age i would say that they have the same stamina, maturity and quality.
Neves is a bit more agressive, robust and better at heading, Moutinho would read the game quicker and better at controlling the speed of the game (worse defending but slightly better ofensively). That is my "bias" opinion.
I don't think that's bias at all and a fair assessment. I was always a Moutinho fan and even at when he was Wolves. Like I said, £100m is too much for Neves, but £60-70m isn't too bad for a player I would expect to improve and be around the first team for at least a decade.

What do you think you'd have valued Moutinho at that age?