Joe Rogan

Charlie Foley

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Apologies I'm a bit out of touch with this, but did anything happen after that idiot Cenk Uygur (a guy who doesn't look like does much exercise) publicly challenged Rogan (who has a huge amount of martial arts experience under his belt) to a fight?

I'd consider myself to be fairly 'progressive', but I find Cenk Uyguy and his sidekick Ana Kasparian to be absolutely unbearable, even when I agree with them.
No idea about the fight. But Cenk is a twat
 

SirAF

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He doesn’t believe spit flies through the air and described masks as Democrats version of MAGA hats.

Does somebody need to help him now rather than laughing at good old Joe? He seems to have been radicalised
Unless he’s playing it up «for the views» then that’s definitely the case, I’d say.
 

berbatrick

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Apart from answering with the cliched stuff (Iraq and the corporate media's role in pushing it, Chomsky's book on the whole thing), well before the rise of independent media, people in the UK believed that the number of people on benefits was much higher than it was, the benefits they received were much higher than the reality, and the number of incoming migrants and of Muslims was much higher than it was. This was from a rich diet of corporate media. I could find a related link from 2016, but remember similar stories in the early 2010s, and probably it was an ongoing thing then too.

Another slightly less cliched criticism of the msm (BBC in particular) is this guy's columns about the role of lobbyists and PR in media that is taken as impartial. I could find a few links:
https://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/12/puppet-show/
https://www.monbiot.com/2014/07/01/purging-dissent/
 

Pogue Mahone

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Apart from answering with the cliched stuff (Iraq and the corporate media's role in pushing it, Chomsky's book on the whole thing), well before the rise of independent media, people in the UK believed that the number of people on benefits was much higher than it was, the benefits they received were much higher than the reality, and the number of incoming migrants and of Muslims was much higher than it was. This was from a rich diet of corporate media. I could find a related link from 2016, but remember similar stories in the early 2010s, and probably it was an ongoing thing then too.

Another slightly less cliched criticism of the msm (BBC in particular) is this guy's columns about the role of lobbyists and PR in media that is taken as impartial. I could find a few links:
https://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/12/puppet-show/
https://www.monbiot.com/2014/07/01/purging-dissent/
There’s a lot of merit in what you say but I can’t really take that argument seriously when the alternative, populist media sources (e.g. the one discussed in this thread) play even more fast and loose with the truth and are so much more obviously biased in terms of their underlying agenda.

Plus, whenever Elon Musk has a whine about “corporate media” treating him unfairly, I know whose side I’m on. And it’s not the billionaire tycoon using the media to line his pockets with the life savings of gullible eejits who lose the run of themselves buying cryptocurrencies.
 

NotThatSoph

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Apart from answering with the cliched stuff (Iraq and the corporate media's role in pushing it, Chomsky's book on the whole thing), well before the rise of independent media, people in the UK believed that the number of people on benefits was much higher than it was, the benefits they received were much higher than the reality, and the number of incoming migrants and of Muslims was much higher than it was. This was from a rich diet of corporate media. I could find a related link from 2016, but remember similar stories in the early 2010s, and probably it was an ongoing thing then too.

Another slightly less cliched criticism of the msm (BBC in particular) is this guy's columns about the role of lobbyists and PR in media that is taken as impartial. I could find a few links:
https://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/12/puppet-show/
https://www.monbiot.com/2014/07/01/purging-dissent/
Sure, mainstream media is all fecked, but the sort of people who'd agree with Musk and Rogan don't really have a problem with the things that actually make them fecked.
 

nimic

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I often wonder if people have really listened to a whole range of his stuff rather than just jumping on the 'he's a nazi right winger' bandwagon.
Nobody is calling him a Nazi. He's probably not even far-right. He's most definitely a gateway to the far-right, though.

But that might just be the chaos dragon of feminism in me.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I often wonder if people have really listened to a whole range of his stuff rather than just jumping on the 'he's a nazi right winger' bandwagon.
I listened to him on a few podcasts when he first came to prominence. He’s a poor communicator. Some of his ideas are reasonable but he’s very bad at getting them across. A lot of his notions are just plain wrong too.

He seems to have got a hell of a lot more unhinged since then. So much so I’m almost tempted to listen again for an update.
 

nimic

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I listened to him on a few podcasts when he first came to prominence. He’s a poor communicator. Some of his ideas are reasonable but he’s very bad at getting them across. A lot of his notions are just plain wrong too.

He seems to have got a hell of a lot more unhinged since then. So much so I’m almost tempted to listen again for an update.
Oh no doubt. He nearly killed himself by trying a quack method of losing his addiction to drugs. You wouldn't think the author of several self-help and self-discipline books would need to almost kill himself to avoid abusing drugs, but there he was.

He might have been a solid scientist at some point, but he embraced the controversy and now he's well and truly embraced being a right-wing radicalization tool (and money-making machine).
 
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Solius

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I often wonder if people have really listened to a whole range of his stuff rather than just jumping on the 'he's a nazi right winger' bandwagon.
I don't think he's that, but there is a reason he's seen as what stupid people think a smart person is. (That's genuinely not meant as an insult against you)
 

fergieisold

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I listened to him on a few podcasts when he first came to prominence. He’s a poor communicator. Some of his ideas are reasonable but he’s very bad at getting them across. A lot of his notions are just plain wrong too.

He seems to have got a hell of a lot more unhinged since then. So much so I’m almost tempted to listen again for an update.
I've not listened to him recently tbf, probably not heard much since he was ill and had some bonkers medical treatment.
 

Pogue Mahone

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"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Oh no doubt. He nearly killed himself by trying a quack method of losing his addiction to drugs. You wouldn't think the author of several self-help and self-discipline books would need to almost kill himself to avoid abusing drugs, but there he was.

He might have been a solid scientist at some point, but he embraced the controversy and now he's well and truly embraced being right-wing radicalization tool (and money-making machine).
Yeah, exactly. Plus the carnivore diet lunacy. He seems paradoxically fragile for someone who positioned himself as an expert on masculine fortitude. Physician heal thyself.
 

fergieisold

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I don't think he's that, but there is a reason he's seen as what stupid people think a smart person is. (That's genuinely not meant as an insult against you)
No, I understand. By no means do I agree with everything he says but there's aspects I do agree with. Problem is whenever someone is discussing controversial topics you always get the extreme fringes latching on to it and thinking someone like Peterson is 'their guy'.
 

Hectic

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No, I understand. By no means do I agree with everything he says but there's aspects I do agree with. Problem is whenever someone is discussing controversial topics you always get the extreme fringes latching on to it and thinking someone like Peterson is 'their guy'.
 

0le

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I don't think he's that, but there is a reason he's seen as what stupid people think a smart person is. (That's genuinely not meant as an insult against you)
If an individual who became a professor at a well known university and has co-authored papers cited thousands of times and first authored papers cited hundreds of time is not an indication of being smart, then what is?
 

Solius

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If an individual who became a professor at a well known university and has co-authored papers cited thousands of times and first authored papers cited hundreds of time is not an indication of being smart, then what is?
You can be knowledgeable in one area and be a dumbass in multiple others. There are unfortunately doctors that exist who have wacko Covid views. It doesn't always correlate.
 

0le

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Oh no doubt. He nearly killed himself by trying a quack method of losing his addiction to drugs. You wouldn't think the author of several self-help and self-discipline books would need to almost kill himself to avoid abusing drugs, but there he was.
Are you suggesting that his views on self-help are not credible simply because of ongoing mental health issues he himself has faced? He has a PhD in clinical psychology* so if there are any views of his which are more likely to be correct (or believed) then it would surely be his views on mental health and the human mind.

Where Peterson probably lacks more credibility are with regards to his views on politics and other areas of science. I also agree with one comment that suggested he struggles to (verbally) communicate his ideas. I find it difficult to follow his ideas, often because he either uses a lot of words to articulate an idea or the words he uses I simply do not understand.

*
Clinical psychology is an integration of science, theory, and clinical knowledge for the purpose of understanding, preventing, and relieving psychologically-based distress or dysfunction and to promote subjective well-being and personal development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_psychology
 

LuisNaniencia

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Are you suggesting that his views on self-help are not credible simply because of ongoing mental health issues he himself has faced? He has a PhD in clinical psychology* so if there are any views of his which are more likely to be correct (or believed) then it would surely be his views on mental health and the human mind.

Where Peterson probably lacks more credibility are with regards to his views on politics and other areas of science. I also agree with one comment that suggested he struggles to (verbally) communicate his ideas. I find it difficult to follow his ideas, often because he either uses a lot of words to articulate an idea or the words he uses I simply do not understand.

*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_psychology
He's clearly an expert in his field, as you point out, he's got the credentials to back it up.

The problem with Peterson is that he talks about a lot of subjects way out of his field, and sounds like a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

For example, he claims to be an evolutionary biologist in an interview. If you haven't already seen a real evolutionary biologist refute his lobster spiel, you should check it out.

He talks about Marxism an awful lot and in trying to disprove Marx he said "an employer would be mad to exploit his workers". He takes the word exploit literally in this, where Marx simply means a worker produces more value than he is paid. It's the mistake of someone with a very poor understanding of the subject.
 

nimic

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Are you suggesting that his views on self-help are not credible simply because of ongoing mental health issues he himself has faced? He has a PhD in clinical psychology* so if there are any views of his which are more likely to be correct (or believed) then it would surely be his views on mental health and the human mind.

Where Peterson probably lacks more credibility are with regards to his views on politics and other areas of science. I also agree with one comment that suggested he struggles to (verbally) communicate his ideas. I find it difficult to follow his ideas, often because he either uses a lot of words to articulate an idea or the words he uses I simply do not understand.

*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_psychology
What @LuisNaniencia said, and also his views on self-help are not credible because they're dumb and absurd.
 

Withnail

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He's clearly an expert in his field, as you point out, he's got the credentials to back it up.

The problem with Peterson is that he talks about a lot of subjects way out of his field, and sounds like a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

For example, he claims to be an evolutionary biologist in an interview. If you haven't already seen a real evolutionary biologist refute his lobster spiel, you should check it out.

He talks about Marxism an awful lot and in trying to disprove Marx he said "an employer would be mad to exploit his workers". He takes the word exploit literally in this, where Marx simply means a worker produces more value than he is paid. It's the mistake of someone with a very poor understanding of the subject.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Is there an alternative meaning of exploit I'm not aware of?

To me that just smacks of someone who's ignorant of the working conditions of millions of people around the world.