John Barnes: "...keeping players happy, I think it’s a recipe for disaster."

[Denis' cuff]

Oh but it wasn't forgiven. In fact Napoli kicked Maradona out of Italy just as Gazza was kicked out of Lazio and that after he barely made any money there due to fines. There were standards in terms of professionalism back in the day as well and many British players in that generation broke them. From Rush who refused to learn Italian while playing in Italy right to blatant use of alcohol who used to shock any non British football journalist commentating on England games during World cups.

So having people like Barnes discussing professionalism when their generation used to turn drunk and out of form almost anywhere they went does stink of hypocrisy. These days players are far more professional then players back in the day.

thought you make good posts pal, but the last para is utter Bollox. Don’t pick out isolated cases as the norm. Anyone can do that in any circumstance. Please don’t tell me you are one of those idiots that think anyone over 50 is an alcoholic. There was a drinking culture but not in direct defiance of club rules. There was an acceptance of it to a degree in a different era. What Barnes is saying, is that players now, often openly defy or disrespect their clubs to meet their own ends. Quite different to occasionally going ott in the pub now and then. They were extremes back then, not the norm.

Iirc, John Barnes’ father was an army officer and sportsman of some sort, who clearly left some impression on his son. Didn’t turn out too bad. Nearly every top team I can think of, the manager was a disciplinarian; Clough, Revie, Shankly, Paisley, Fergie.

 

[devilish]

thought you make good posts pal, but the last para is utter Bollox. Don’t pick out isolated cases as the norm. Anyone can do that in any circumstance. Please don’t tell me you are one of those idiots that think anyone over 50 is an alcoholic. There was a drinking culture but not in direct defiance of club rules. There was an acceptance of it to a degree in a different era. What Barnes is saying, is that players now, often openly defy or disrespect their clubs to meet their own ends. Quite different to occasionally going ott in the pub now and then. They were extremes back then, not the norm.

Iirc, John Barnes’ father was an army officer and sportsman of some sort, who clearly left some impression on his son. Didn’t turn out too bad. Nearly every top team I can think of, the manager was a disciplinarian; Clough, Revie, Shankly, Paisley, Fergie.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-legend-john-barnes-reveals-13985268

https://www.thatsmags.com/china/pos...e-euro-96-dentist-chair-incident-in-hong-kong

Back in the day this behaviour was already unacceptable not only by clubs but by the layman as well. John Aldridge recalls how Italian policemen were shocked to see the Irish national team drinking Guinness just two days prior the game vs Italy (World cup 1990).

Finally I struggle to understand how Clough could be a disciplinarian in terms of alcohol considering that he was a drunk himself.

If that behaviour isn't disrespectful towards the club then I rest my case.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Let me share a personal story with you The team at my local town plays at 1st division level. However they have one of the finest youth academy in the country. That's down to the dedicated people at the club + also its down to the town was fairly young which meant that there were many kids running around at the time. Anyway back in my time, many kids would sign with the local club and do very well. Unfortunately due to budget issues the local club lacked an U18-21 squad. That meant that by the time you hit 18-19 you are either good enough for the first team or else you're basically fecked. The team won't play you, the club won't release you and any club interested in your services would have to pay good money to sign you. Contracts would run down and yet you're still owned by the club. I've seen dozens of very valid 18-19 year olds who were forced to retire from football because of that. That's pre Bosman ruling for you.

The pre Bosman ruling meant that players were literally owned by the club. The club could basically ruin your career if they want you and they would get away with it. Jean-Marc Bosman situation was pretty identical to what my mates faced back in the day. His contract with his previous club had expired, he wanted to play for a French club and yet his previous club didn't want to release him. Hence you had a situation were managers couldn't be bothered man manage simply because they were Gods who could make the player's life a living hell. The things these players faced borders to the ridiculous. Roy Keane (you know our former captain whose tough as nails) got punched in the face by Brian Clough for having the temerity of asking for a transfer. In normal circumstances good old Keano would have probably broke every single bone of that drunken has been. Unfortunately we're talking about pre Bosman times here. All Keano had to do is clean himself out and leave the office while hoping that this wouldn't ruin his life.

Footballers today are way more professional then the players back in the day. Its rare to have players coming to pre season out of form let alone coming to the training ground with a hang over. However they have more rights then players to do and are intelligent enough to protect themselves. Most players have agents. The new generation aren't afraid of leaving the country if that mean improving their career. I applaud the likes of Jadon Sancho & Rabbi Matondo and co for the courage to spread their wing and move elsewhere when it was evident that their career was going nowhere in England. Can the modern player be petty? Of course they can especially since we're talking about 18-27 year olds here with loads of money, so much popularity and so much time on their hands. However I'd rather have players acting like JLingz who make a fool of himself then players drinking their careers away or punching one another as if they are in a boxing ring.

The argument isn't against against player rights though. Players deserve to be treated with the basic decency anyone else can expect in their job. The issue in question is the level of autonomy club owners and administrators are willing to give managers.

Very often a player is worth more to a club as an investment than the manager, and as a result a fall out between a manager and the star player, when he tries to push the player out of his comfort zone to perform better or show better attitude, will result in the club siding with the player.

The argument is that this is unfair on the manager as it ties his hands, detrimental to the team as it sends the wrong message, and to the star player, who could have been pushed to improve further.

 

[SteveJ]

Every older generation seems to have at least three strong opinions on younger folk:

1. 'They're too soft, and spoilt.'
2. 'They're cowardly.'
3. 'Chuck 'em in the army.'

This is irrefutable evidence that some older folks are a) stupid, b) heartless, and c) brainwashed by newspaper headlines.

 

[devilish]

The argument isn't against against player rights though. Players deserve to be treated with the basic decency anyone else can expect in their job. The issue in question is the level of autonomy club owners and administrators are willing to give managers.

Very often a player is worth more to a club as an investment than the manager, and as a result a fall out between a manager and the star player, when he tries to push the player out of his comfort zone to perform better or show better attitude, will result in the club siding with the player.

The argument is that this is unfair on the manager as it ties his hands, detrimental to the team as it sends the wrong message, and to the star player, who could have been pushed to improve further.

My point was that it's very easy for a player to obey the manager at a time when the manager could have easily ruin a player's career. Things had changed since then. Players have rights, they have hired agents to protect such rights, they don't particularly feel attached to the club and right or wrong they care about one thing alone ie themselves. I don't blame them. Ultimately when the spotlight is off, the club will get rid off them irrespective what they did for the club. Man management is key in football these days just as it is in most sectors. The managers can't threaten of ruining someone's life and he's certainly can't punch his way into the dressing room without risking getting beaten, sacked and sued. Hence he must learn how to keep their players properly motivated.

 

[RedPnutz]

Every older generation seems to have at least three strong opinions on younger folk:

1. 'They're too soft, and spoilt.'
2. 'They're cowardly.'
3. 'Chuck 'em in the army.'

This is irrefutable evidence that some older folks are a) stupid, b) heartless, and c) brainwashed by newspaper headlines.

The irony is that the older generation possibly spend a bulk of their lives and work making things better and more comfortable for the future generations but end up complaining about the younger generations not being “forged in fire” or something like that.

 

[SteveJ]

The irony is that the older generation possibly spend a bulk of their lives and work making things better and more comfortable for the future generations but end up complaining about the younger generations not being “forged in fire” or something like that.

One might be tempted to think that they don't actually care about children...