Big yikes.
John Stones | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He doesnt look that good for City
Stones and Mag were Jones and Smallingesque.
I say he is bloody brilliant in improving the thinking of his players and make them work together. They need to be good with the ball for his ideas to work, but his system can make stupid players look much better than they are due to having great instructions and patterns around them. He is mainly best with improving midfielders and defenders. With strikers he needs quality that cost a lot too.
If he wasn't English, I think Pep would look to get rid of him. Doesn't rate him as a first choice anymore, as Laporte and Kompany were finishing the season and there is rumours of Maguire going there. Obviously wants to fill the homegrown quota and to have a decent player like John Stones in there makes sense, considering the outlay spent on him.
He hasn't really improved massively from his days at Everton, still making the same mistakes whilst being susceptible to being bullied on the deck and in the air.
He hasn't really improved massively from his days at Everton, still making the same mistakes whilst being susceptible to being bullied on the deck and in the air.
I'm not sure this is true. Supposedly they're happy to let Otamendi leave along with Kompany and will go into the new season with 3 centre backs. Laporte, Stones and Maguire (as far as the rumours go from the most reliable Man City journalist out there).
My guess is that he'll use Rodri or whoever they sign in that position as a 4th auxiliary centre back.
Stones just has to get over these brain farts somehow.
True.
They're a team that's loaded with 90th percentile players. That's how Pep operates. Lots of very, very good players who fit his system and he doesn't like individuals. As brilliant as Messi is, he also happened to fit Pep's plan perfectly. In international football where there is less team cohesion you need those players who will go it alone sometimes.
He buys a lot of players who are just on the cusp of world class, dont step up, and end up getting replaced for the starting lineup. Stones is already there and perilously close to dropping out all together.
Now idea how he has fooled Pep into thinking he can play out from the back
Stones loves to overplay and always has, nothing changed there. So, if Pep is so good at improving players can we ask how Stones has stayed still/regressed??
Ah, the fabled anti-brainfart-medicine.
One of the worst individual performances from a defender I've seen in a long time... probably since David Luiz in the 7-1.
Lost count of how many times he lost his man from corners.
Lost count of how many times he lost his man from corners.
Good defender, but lacks maturity. He can control the ball well, usually, but man marking and tackling are poor at the highest level.
Just not true.
He hasn't regressed. Just had a bad game. Laporte had one of these against Spurs at home. More visible when you're a proactive defender.
He hasn't regressed... but he is prone to overplaying/mistakes, and there is a reason that he isn't first choice for City and has only started 10 games for them in 2019 across all competitions (which includes their piss easy FA Cup run)
And I imagine City will be spending big on another starting CB to be ahead of him in the pecking order this summer.
1. Injury and rust coming back from injury
2. Rotation
When fit he and Laporte started all the big games in the first half of the season (both Liverpool games, and so on).
If Pep spends 150M on another defender I'll hold my hands up. Until then...
what are these qualities? Sami Alladyche alluded to the fact he cannot defend. Maybe he'll be a good DMC
Defends well in a high line system where mistakes are more fatal
Keeps the ball very well
Can be an auxiliary distributor of the ball when DM is marked, finding advanced midfielders and attackers directly (Laporte is better here though)
Great at defending set pieces (City concede very few goals from set pieces)
I wouldn't call man marking a strength of his, although I wouldn't call it a weakness. He's capable enough in that regard when in form.
And he's not a good DMC now. Pep's tried him there a few times with questionable results.
Doesn't play enough games for his club, to be a England first choice Centre back, Southgate has put him and Delph in squad, and both don't get many top games at club level, to deserve a place really?
One of the better players at the WC for England, had more than 30 apps this season for the best team in the country. Who else should be Maguire's partner then?
Someone who plays regular football, who can basically pass the ball! I don't really care who partners who, for England ,Mickey mouse, Donald duck, keep up the good work Stones, your Career be over and hardly kick a ball.
Stones started this season in first choice but struggled with injuries. If he's fit he should start for England. If he had stayed fit for City then almost certainly he'd have been Laporte's most regular partner. If he's good enough for City, he's good enough for England. Agreed about Delph though, he barely played and when he did he was poor (and played LB mostly). It is strange that Southgate still relies on him in midfield at times. I can understand him being in the squad as he is by all accounts a big character in the dressing room and a leader, and is still a good player, but he should only really be getting minutes off the bench.
I've yet to see evidence of this.
Come on, Delph is clearly a good player. He was at Villa and he has been for City. He put in some great performances last season at LB last season for us which is not his natural position. As a midfielder he would start for the majority of sides outside the top six.
Because he’s just not very good.
This whole narrative of Pep improving players is overblown anyway. Just as many examples of him doing the exact opposite and the ones who improved were exceptional talents in the first place.
True, I think the only players that really went up a notch were Sterling and KDB.
Compare this to when VVD got mugged by Sterling, his recovery pace is amazing! Isnt Gomez a better defender than Stones?
Not sure about that. I think Gomez gets more protection from Liverpool midfielders a fair bit. Pep's stubborness and unwillingness to be pragmatic at key times will be his undoing ultimately, I reckon unless he changes. He loves to take risks a lot and this exposes his defenders lots of times.
Gomez is an amazing defener though and I like him.
I'm genuinely astounded by this assessment of Stones, he's laughably shit at defending set pieces, and generally a passive beanpole when defending aerial balls in general. If he doesn't have an aggressive partner attacking the ball so he can sweep up he's absolutely atrocious, one of the worst in the league.
He's also wank on the ball, I can only assume he gets away with it at City because the movement is so good that nobody bothers pressing them in their half.
In terms of defending on the deck though, he is very good. For me that just isn't enough though. You can't hand the Dutch team 3 goals on a plate, even if Walker and Maguire are making a few mistakes around you. Don't get me wrong, the Dutch are decent but nothing more, a top defender should never have a showing like that in such a big game.
That sounds nothing like him.
My quick check says he started just half of City's games this season, and he played full 90 minutes in all four defeats they suffered this year in which he was worst or joint worst rated player(3 out of times). He also played full 90 minutes in their 2 out of 2 draws this season.
Stones was fantastic in Pep's second season until he got injured in December that season. Other than that at City he has been the same inconsistent defender he was at Everton.
Always had a mistake/balls up in him every other game at Everton, still has. He's a good player but when it comes to the crunch he'll always make that balls up. You can see why Pep didnt play him much in the run in when every City game was an absolute must win.
Yep. Would have been interesting to see how he'd be doing now if he never suffered that injury.
You really think Pep blows £50m on a defender who is 'wank' on the ball? You can criticise Stones for lots of things but, for a defender, he is good with the ball at his feet (and I'm someone who has generally argued that Stones ability on the ball is overrated). And I fail to see how he was to blame for the third goal, he didn't make Barkley pass it to someone in a bright orange shirt. I've seen Ederson receive riskier balls than that and deal with them better than Barkley did.
Sorry but it just doesn't jive with the stats. Your assessment that is. For all the kudos Liverpool have received this season, they conceded one less goal than City in the league. And the year before, City conceded the least amount of goals in the league with Stones starting the most game out of any defender.
City concede very few goals from set pieces and in general. You calling him wank on the ball shows you haven't seen many City games, simple as that. But that's not atypical with many on the Caf.
Just see how infrequent this thread has been bumped since Pep's second season
Don’t City defend in numbers when the bell is lost though?Sorry but it just doesn't jive with the stats. Your assessment that is. For all the kudos Liverpool have received this season, they conceded one less goal than City in the league. And the year before, City conceded the least amount of goals in the league with Stones starting the most game out of any defender.
City concede very few goals from set pieces and in general. You calling him wank on the ball shows you haven't seen many City games, simple as that. But that's not atypical with many on the Caf.
Just see how infrequent this thread has been bumped since Pep's second season
Doesn’t make Stones shit in any way but the England midfield is poor in making up for any shortcomings in defence
Most top teams do to some extent. Waiting for United to join the party.
City's system is definitely based on defending in all phases of the pitch, but it's a high risk system where mistakes are punished severely. Look at City in Pep's first season.
The man just can't defend. It is that simple. There isn't any part of his defending that is first rate. He's no better than the most mediocre of Center half's in La liga.
Pep's system doesn't require great defenders (Mascherano looked world class next to Pique for example), and they almost always have easy one touch options to pass to. Being able to pick a pass in that setup is not the same as being able to pick one under pressure. Plus Fernandinho is probably the best DM in the league which doesn't hurt.Sorry but it just doesn't jive with the stats. Your assessment that is. For all the kudos Liverpool have received this season, they conceded one less goal than City in the league. And the year before, City conceded the least amount of goals in the league with Stones starting the most game out of any defender.
City concede very few goals from set pieces and in general. You calling him wank on the ball shows you haven't seen many City games, simple as that. But that's not atypical with many on the Caf.
Just see how infrequent this thread has been bumped since Pep's second season
Just use your eyes, Stones hardly ever attacks the aerial balls and in the rare occasions he's put under pressure he often fecks up on the ball.
And in terms of that 3rd goal, watch it back, Barkley doesn't want that ball at all, he's just making space for Stones to pop it long. Atrocious decision to pass to him. That's not to say Barkley isn't at fault too once he receives the ball of course, but it's still a colossal feck up from Stones.
John Stoned, played like he was, pity he's not a bad player if played regular for his club, he should move to another club, like Newcastle United, or Villa just got back , they got 2 good centre backs though if they stay, so be on bench there as well.
His ass must be sore sitting down for 90 mins
His ass must be sore sitting down for 90 mins