Film Joker (2019)

[MadMike]

5/5 stars from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/aug/31/joker-review-twisted-tour-de-force-joaquin-phoenix

 

[SuperiorXI]

Can't wait to see it... looks fantastic.

 

[LARulz]

No way it's a 10/10.

Why?

 

[MadMike]

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/joker-review-joaquin-phoenix-1202170236/

Seems to chime with my worries (spoilery review)

And what are those worries? That it will be a rallying cry to homicidal incels like that review says?

 

[George Owen]

Why?

I mean, it can be, but I don't trust the reviews. Even when the first trailers appeared, the instant hype was just ridiculous, and people (or bots) were jerking off to it.

 

[MadMike]

I mean, it can be, but I don't trust the reviews. Even when the first trailers appeared, the instant hype was just ridiculous, and people (or bots) were jerking off to it.

So the trailer hype was bots and the Venice festival reviewers are untrustworthy. I like your tinfoil hat, it's great

 

[Castia]

Can’t remember the last time I seen review scores like this, it’s getting top marks from everywhere. Early days but it’s also 9.9 on imdb.

 

[George Owen]

So the trailer hype was bots and the Venice festival reviewers are untrustworthy. I like your tinfoil hat, it's great

Movie reviews are like political polls. They come out with an agenda, with a purpose, to generate a reaction, to change opinions. They can be truthful sometimes, untruthful other times.

Movie industry is powerful, they can push whatever agenda they want, that's why I'm sceptic.

Any way, I'll be back with my review, sometime during next year when the movie hits the....

 

[Ubik]

And what are those worries? That it will be a rallying cry to homicidal incels like that review says?

That it takes the superficial from the Scorsese films, of people slightly out of sync with reality but winning the day in spite (or maybe because) of that, and using it to frame a story about a straight down the line psychopath. And that the director of Road Trip maybe doesn't have the chops to pull it (at least to my taste).

Maybe my fears will be unfounded, we'll see.

 

[MadMike]

That it takes the superficial from the Scorsese films, of people slightly out of sync with reality but winning the day in spite (or maybe because) of that, and using it to frame a story about a straight down the line psychopath. And that the director of Road Trip maybe doesn't have the chops to pull it (at least to my taste).

Maybe my fears will be unfounded, we'll see.

Care to elaborate a bit on what is bad about that? You're worried that it's a film about a psychopath winning the day? Or that he is (clearly) copying Scorcese?

 

[lsd]

No surprise it's getting rave reviews . The best actor of his generation playing an iconic character another actor won an oscar for .

He was always going to deliver

 

[Ubik]

Care to elaborate a bit on what is bad about that? You're worried that it's a film about a psychopath winning the day? Or that he is (clearly) copying Scorcese?

Because in a hack's hands, making an empathetic film about the embodiment of evil in the comic book world isn't going to be overly enjoyable.

 

[Untied]

And what are those worries? That it will be a rallying cry to homicidal incels like that review says?

It's funny seeing the liberal centrists go for the "video games cause violence" line

 

[Drifter]

Why do some people want this movie to fail?. Is it the Heath Ledger fanboism or the Marvel fanboism?. And the less said about those SJW's the better.

 

[MadMike]

Because in a hack's hands, making an empathetic film about the embodiment of evil in the comic book world isn't going to be overly enjoyable.

In the hands of a hack, any film would be likely shite regardless of theme or topic. Not trusting the director is a concern on its own. I’m trying work out how the theme of the film and it’s borrowing of Scorcese-style storytelling, features in that criticism and why.

The review you linked merely marked down the film because it starkly shows the ugliness of the world and appears to be empathetic one’s decent into homicidal, psychopathic rage rather than being critical of it or offering another alternative. A review littered with the reviewer’s worry for the potential effects of the film on its viewership. That sounds like a political take on a film review of the same intellectual level as the “video games cause violence” line that @Untied mentioned. Not only incredibly dumb but patronising too.

At its worse the film could be horrible portrayal of people with mental health issues and a senseless descent into violence that ends up being a massive disappointment. But the things the reviewer claims, those it cannot be.

 

[SteveJ]

Christ, there's some awful anti-Semitic stuff in the comments.

 

[Ubik]

Christ, there's some awful anti-Semitic stuff in the comments.

Like moths to a flame.

 

[R.N7]

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[Jericholyte2]

Film got an 8 minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival. Most of the reviews coming out have mentioned masterpiece and/or game-changer.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

IGN 10/10 too

A month to go, dammit!!!

 

[Sanche7]

It could end up being one of those movies that get praised to the skies by critics but receive meh ratings by the audience. I remember watching the Kristen Stewart movie Personal Shopper, which received some 4,5 minute standing ovation at Cannes, only to feel confused and underwhelmed.
But, one thing I'm very sure of is that Phoenix will get at least an Oscar nomination for the role. Hopefully he wins it because they hit has had a tough life and IMO is underrated as an actor

 

[Sanche7]

IGN 10/10 too

A month to go, dammit!!!

There was a time when I used to trust IGN reviews, but they have been more miss than hit for some time now. I watched The Society which IGN gave 8.8/10 and felt like driving up to IGNs office and choking the guy/girl who wrote that. Even before that there were controversies and issues like a review which deducted points because the game had 'too much water' and plagiarism

 

[dumbo]

Didn't IGN give Taxi Driver two stars on its initial theatrical release? Just bear that in mind when reading their review.

 

[MadMike]

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Christ that review

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Didn't IGN give Taxi Driver two stars on its initial theatrical release? Just bear that in mind when reading their review.

Rating seems right to me. Taxi driver I mean. Hate movies that just follows a guy through a normal day and then the last 15 mins he gets a mohawk and kills a bunch of people and then ends.

 

[Casanova85]

This doesn't feel like a Joker movie. It's like a mix of a very dark version of The King of Comedy and your typical "losing it" Hollywood movie (Taxi Driver) but with a clown (not a taxi driver) inspiring a major riot.

 

[MadMike]

This doesn't feel like a Joker movie. It's like a mix of a very dark version of The King of Comedy and your typical "losing it" Hollywood movie (Taxi Driver) but with a clown (not a taxi driver) inspiring a major riot.

You mean that this doesn't feel like a Batman movie? Which is correct since it isn't one. Because how would you know what a Joker movie would be like, there's never been one before.

 

[Casanova85]

You mean that this doesn't feel like a Batman movie? Which is correct since it isn't one. Because how would you know what a Joker movie would be like, there's never been one before.

Plenty of comics and two movies where the Joker was as important as Batman (Batman '89 and TDK).

 

[MadMike]

Plenty of comics and two movies were the Joker was as important as Batman (Batman '89 and TDK).

So you're saying there have been comics and films where he's been the antagonist to an heroic protagonist but never a film where he's been the protagonist himself? I agree.

Look, I don't mean to sound like a dick. But this whole "doesn't seem like a joker" thing is kinda getting repetitive and it's also kinda dumb. What do people expect, a film about a villain just being a villain for 2 hours? Just a maniacal psychopath reaping destruction with no antagonist? Like a Rambo film? Think about it for second.

Of course the film about a villain will take a different approach to an action film where he's the antagonist to a hero. When you write a story focusing on the origins of a villain, it's gonna be a bit of a drama explaining the character's background and how he ended up where he did. It's expected villain character building 101, nothing new.

 

[Jake]

I cannot wait for this film. TDK is my favourite film of all time, and I’m not even in to comic films really. I like them but not obsessed by them there was just something gritty and raw about the dark knight which gripped me.

Really am looking forward to this!

 

[cesc's_mullet]

I mean, it can be, but I don't trust the reviews. Even when the first trailers appeared, the instant hype was just ridiculous, and people (or bots) were jerking off to it.

Yeah agree. I don't see how this links to the wider Batman universe. Is this Joker meant to become the criminal villain mastermind?

 

[Irwin99]

TDK is/was the only comic book/super hero movie I ever liked and The Joker was a big part of that. I'm intrigued by the trailer.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

There was a time when I used to trust IGN reviews, but they have been more miss than hit for some time now. I watched The Society which IGN gave 8.8/10 and felt like driving up to IGNs office and choking the guy/girl who wrote that. Even before that there were controversies and issues like a review which deducted points because the game had 'too much water' and plagiarism

Oh yeah. I used to love IGN growing up. They've gotten far too big since. I take their reviews with a lunch of salt. Was just highlighting how well this is being received by everyone.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Didn't IGN give Taxi Driver two stars on its initial theatrical release? Just bear that in mind when reading their review.

IGN is that old??

 

[Organic Potatoes]

IGN is that old??

That was back when internet video game sites had true street cred.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That was back when internet video game sites had true street cred.

I remember IGN in the early 90s. But is taxi driver from the 70s?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Goodness gracious me I can't wait to see this.

Phoenix is an amazing actor and the Joker is one of the most iconic characters ever, and the reviews have me extremely impatient. I can't wait

 

[Wedge]

It could end up being one of those movies that get praised to the skies by critics but receive meh ratings by the audience. I remember watching the Kristen Stewart movie Personal Shopper, which received some 4,5 minute standing ovation at Cannes, only to feel confused and underwhelmed.
But, one thing I'm very sure of is that Phoenix will get at least an Oscar nomination for the role. Hopefully he wins it because they hit has had a tough life and IMO is underrated as an actor

I always thought if theres one actor who can the joker an iconic take like heath did then phoenix is the guy.

 

[Casanova85]

So you're saying there have been comics and films where he's been the antagonist to an heroic protagonist but never a film where he's been the protagonist himself? I agree.

Look, I don't mean to sound like a dick. But this whole "doesn't seem like a joker" thing is kinda getting repetitive and it's also kinda dumb. What do people expect, a film about a villain just being a villain for 2 hours? Just a maniacal psychopath reaping destruction with no antagonist? Like a Rambo film? Think about it for second.

Of course the film about a villain will take a different approach to an action film where he's the antagonist to a hero. When you write a story focusing on the origins of a villain, it's gonna be a bit of a drama explaining the character's background and how he ended up where he did. It's expected villain character building 101, nothing new.

Doesn't seem like a Joker film/comic story/whatever because the Joker:

a) always embraced madness (the "push") via an accident (usually acid) or injury that left him scarred and-or deformed. His previous odd backstory (mean gangster, or failed comedian, or horrible childhood, etc.) is just the previous step to the "push", that signals the point of no return for him.
b) his high IQ was always oriented to violent organized crime, bizarre plans, tons of guns, etc.
c) hates humanity. The Joker only tolerates few henchmen because they are useful, but won't hesitate to kill them and replace them ad nauseam. The Joker is not about inspiring society to embrace anarchism or chaos. It's about killing the society with chaos.

This trailer only explains to me that a seriously depressed failed comedian is going insane and will eventually trigger a riot by influencing similarly depressed guys. Also blatant ripoff of V of Vendetta with the Clown Mask.

Don't mean to sound like a Joker's pseudo-expert or a dick. Just trying to express how odd/different this trailer looks to what I've been reading/seeing about the Joker for years.

 

[The Cat]

IGN is that old??

No way - early 90s at the earliest.

Maybe means a different film.