Film Joker (2019)

[Vault Dweller]

Doesn't seem like a Joker film/comic story/whatever because the Joker:

a) always embraced madness (the "push") via an accident (usually acid) or injury that left him scarred and-or deformed. His previous odd backstory (mean gangster, or failed comedian, or horrible childhood, etc.) is just the previous step to the "push", that signals the point of no return for him.
b) his high IQ was always oriented to violent organized crime, bizarre plans, tons of guns, etc.
c) hates humanity. The Joker only tolerates few henchmen because they are useful, but won't hesitate to kill them and replace them ad nauseam. The Joker is not about inspiring society to embrace anarchism or chaos. It's about killing the society with chaos.

This trailer only explains to me that a seriously depressed failed comedian is going insane and will eventually trigger a riot by influencing similarly depressed guys. Also blatant ripoff of V of Vendetta with the Clown Mask.

Don't mean to sound like a Joker's pseudo-expert or a dick. Just trying to express how odd/different this trailer looks to what I've been reading/seeing about the Joker for years.

I agree that it's not the classic Joker take, and the one you describe is the version I know (and admittedly love in a weird way) from the countless novels, comics, movies I have collected or read. But reading what Todd Phillips has said about the movie makes me believe they are taking a totally different spin. He has said he wants to create a series of films where the DC characters selected aren't taken in the classical view, but to be a character study and to look at different circumstances or personalities that lead them to becoming who we know them to be.

I love Joker as Heath showed him in Dark Knight, and how Mark Hamill has portrayed him in the animated series and in the Arkham games. But I'm seriously excited to see what Phoenix can do with him as I think he is a magnificent actor. And Joker is one of my favourite characters of all time, so I am curious as Hell to see what direction they take in this.

PS - I know what you mean about the V for Vendetta/Clown mask bit, but I must admit I thought it was cool in the trailer

 

[Casanova85]

. But reading what Todd Phillips has said about the movie makes me believe they are taking a totally different spin. He has said he wants to create a series of films where the DC characters selected aren't taken in the classical view, but to be a character study and to look at different circumstances or personalities that lead them to becoming who we know them to be.

Ok, but at what cost? What's next? New Batman is not an orphan?

Even Marvel comics (the comics, not the movie studio) is at an all-time-low due to the multiple changes they've made to his classic characters.

 

[Jim Beam]

Bring it on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, but at what cost? What's next? New Batman is not an orphan?

Even Marvel comics (the comics, not the movie studio) is at an all-time-low due to the multiple changes they've made to his classic characters.

See I don't think they will have this series, if it in fact even becomes a series, to interfere with the comic or novel story line. There is still much chatter about Jared Leto having another Joker film that will be an origin story and also to appear in another later film, and the Harley Quinn film will also not be part of this supposed 'DC Black' series either. I think they are just making some films with a unique spin on iconic DC characters, which will not be incorporated into the comic narrative.

I may be wrong but that is my take on it anyway.

 

[Casanova85]

See I don't think they will have this series, if it in fact even becomes a series, to interfere with the comic or novel story line. There is still much chatter about Jared Leto having another Joker film that will be an origin story and also to appear in another later film, and the Harley Quinn film will also not be part of this supposed 'DC Black' series either. I think they are just making some films with a unique spin on iconic DC characters, which will not be incorporated into the comic narrative.

I may be wrong but that is my take on it anyway.

Yeah, at this point I only care about Harley Quinn. Enough from the clown.

 

[SteveJ]

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, at this point I only care about Harley Quinn. Enough from the clown.

yes my good man.

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

Agreed.

 

[kps88]

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

Don't think you can really form an opinion on this either way without having actually seen the movie. Unless you feel there is nothing a movie can do to deserve any criticism in this area.

 

[Drifter]

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

Isn't that the same argument from those who say video games are a influence on violence.

 

[stepic]

yeah, or blaming Columbine on Marilyn Manson.

 

[SteveJ]

Don't think you can really form an opinion on this either way without having actually seen the movie. Unless you feel there is nothing a movie can do to deserve any criticism in this area.

Isn't that the same argument from those who say video games are a influence on violence.

Really I was complaining about the tendency to swiftly blame games, movies, mental health etc etc; anything but gun sales.

yeah, or blaming Columbine on Marilyn Manson

Exactly.

 

[El General 1994]

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

Agree

 

[Sweet Square]

I can envisage this movie getting tremendous criticism should some fool mistake Joker for a hero & commit mass murder...and that would be an error, I think. It's always convenient and easy for press & politicians to miss the point entirely. In my opinion, the central problem is entitlement, and how we're taught - implicitly and explicitly - to feel entitled.

Oh Steve thats so 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora,_Colorado_shooting

 

[SteveJ]

Funny how nobody ever emulates the Penguin.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Christ that review

A good response to reviews such as that...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/sep/02/incel-violence-joker-rightwing-film-joaquin-phoenix

 

[Ubik]

Todd Phillips has now won as many Golden Lions as Akira Kurosawa.

 

[Casanova85]

Wow, a Golden Lion no less.

That said, hardly the kind of advertisement to sell a superhero movie.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Wow, a Golden Lion no less.

That said, hardly the kind of advertisement to sell a superhero movie.

Except it's been made pretty clear it's not a superhero movie?

 

[Casanova85]

Except it's been made pretty clear it's not a superhero movie?

We'll see if it "even" makes 800 million.

 

[Ubik]

We'll see if it "even" makes 800 million.

Well that would be a record for something rated R.

 

[wr8_utd]

We'll see if it "even" makes 800 million.

I'm sure it won't touch a billion given it's a R rated movie and I honestly couldn't less if it can compete with the sales of Marvel movies. I'm sure though it's going to be a far far better movie than any Marvel movie so far just as The Dark Knight is better than anything the superhero world of Disney can ever imagine coming up.

 

[Wedge]

I'm sure it won't touch a billion given it's a R rated movie and I honestly couldn't less if it can compete with the sales of Marvel movies. I'm sure though it's going to be a far far better movie than any Marvel movie so far just as The Dark Knight is better than anything the superhero world of Disney can ever imagine coming up.

I agree with you, although I like marvels films I still think nolans is the best comic adaption still out there.

 

[Casanova85]

I'm sure it won't touch a billion given it's a R rated movie and I honestly couldn't less if it can compete with the sales of Marvel movies. I'm sure though it's going to be a far far better movie than any Marvel movie so far just as The Dark Knight is better than anything the superhero world of Disney can ever imagine coming up.

The problem with Nolan's TDK is that it's not even a superhero movie.

Only TDKR (and certain parts of Begins) qualified as a superhero movie. TDK was a crime thriller with two colorful leads.

That's why many people still prefer Burton's films.

 

[stepic]

We'll see if it "even" makes 800 million.

It obviously won’t.

 

[2mufc0]

The problem with Nolan's TDK is that it's not even a superhero movie.

Only TDKR (and certain parts of Begins) qualified as a superhero movie. TDK was a crime thriller with two colorful leads.

That's why many people still prefer Burton's films.

It's a superhero film. We don't need hipster analysis/views of every aspect of entertainment .

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm sure it won't touch a billion given it's a R rated movie and I honestly couldn't less if it can compete with the sales of Marvel movies. I'm sure though it's going to be a far far better movie than any Marvel movie so far just as The Dark Knight is better than anything the superhero world of Disney can ever imagine coming up.

Agree.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The problem with Nolan's TDK is that it's not even a superhero movie.

Only TDKR (and certain parts of Begins) qualified as a superhero movie. TDK was a crime thriller with two colorful leads.

That's why many people still prefer Burton's films.

That's not a "problem". A film being genuinely brilliant and not candy floss pop corn bro flick is a good thing. And TDK was a superhero film, just a genuinely brilliant one.

 

[Casanova85]

It's a superhero film. We don't need hipster analysis/views of every aspect of entertainment .

I still prefer Begins and TDKR.

 

[Redlambs]

That's not a "problem". A film being genuinely brilliant and not candy floss pop corn bro flick is a good thing. And TDK was a superhero film, just a genuinely brilliant one.

This.

I don't understand why anyone would want this not to be something different. I mean, what's the harm in having more choice?

 

[Welsh Wonder]

This.

I don't understand why anyone would want this not to be something different. I mean, what's the harm in having more choice?

Agreed, there's an absolute wealth of standard superhero stuff out there in both animated and live action form. As you say there's no harm done by trying something different to the established formula.

 

[syrian_scholes]

It's a superhero film. We don't need hipster analysis/views of every aspect of entertainment .

So blunt and so true.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

We'll see if it "even" makes 800 million.

I think the first Deadpool was something like 600 mil and although the character maybe wasn’t as well known as the Joker its premise probably had more casual Cinema viewers drawn to it along with Reynolds as a lead.

I think this will probably be hard pushed to get near that.

 

[sullydnl]

Why would anyone care about how much money it makes?

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Is 800M like, a ‘number’ or something?

 

[wr8_utd]

Why would anyone care about how much money it makes?

Well numbers are the only thing Marvel movies really have going for them so I guess, unfortunately, that's become the mark of a superhero movie's "success" these days.

 

[Redlambs]

Why would anyone care about how much money it makes?

People are very weird.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

The problem with Nolan's TDK is that it's not even a superhero movie.

Only TDKR (and certain parts of Begins) qualified as a superhero movie. TDK was a crime thriller with two colorful leads.

That's why many people still prefer Burton's films.

I still prefer Begins and TDKR.

You try hard to be wrong and you succeed

Why would anyone care about how much money it makes?

Is 800M like, a ‘number’ or something?

No idea. Dont understand why that poster brought it up like he had a point or something

 

[Rado_N]

It's a superhero film. We don't need hipster analysis/views of every aspect of entertainment .

perfect response

 

[Drifter]

Joker and Roman Polanski win at Venice festival

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49623532

 

[Kostur]

Sad to hear that this filthy paedo is still breathing.