Jordan Henderson: overrated/underrated?

[Maluco]

One of the Bender, Grosskeutz, Blasz variety. He is probably the biggest example of the Klopp effect in action. A decent player with energy to burn who has been used and moulded to provide a specific function to the team.

Dortmund has lots and lots of examples of players who reached peaks never seen again before or after Klopp and Henderson will be on the list for the Liverpool clan.

Again, it’s not nice to hear, because fans want to believe their players are equally responsible for performances, that it doesn’t depend on one man and his back room staff, but it does. Henderson will be nowhere post-Klopp, so he better win this award now!

If Klopp was to go in 2-3 years, with Mane, Salah, VVD and Firmino all post-30, this side will be scraping around like the rest.

My advice to Pool fans is to enjoy every single trophy and moment because it can all be gone in the blink of an eye and some things, like a world class Jordan Henderson, are not always what they seem.

 

[Stick]

De Bruyne has 15 assist and is almost certainly going to break the PL single-season assists record, he's THE best playmaker and creator in the world and has been consistently the best player on the pitch in more games than anyone esle. He's having an historical season for an attacking playmaker in the PL, the best we've seen in two decades so far

Yes I agree with that except for the 6 games where City lost De Bruyne has been excellent. The liverpool players on the other hand have been professionally dispatching teams throughout the season with no losses so far. It really depends on the opinions of who is judging. I honestly don't know which way I would go but I can definitely see an argument for a few players to get it.

 

[Stick]

One of the Bender, Grosskeutz, Blasz variety. He is probably the biggest example of the Klopp effect in action. A decent player with energy to burn who has been used and moulded to provide a specific function to the team.

Dortmund has lots and lots of examples of players who reached peaks never seen again before or after Klopp and Henderson will be on the list for the Liverpool clan.

Again, it’s not nice to hear, because fans want to believe their players are equally responsible for performances, that it doesn’t depend on one man and his back room staff, but it does. Henderson will be nowhere post-Klopp, so he better win this award now!

If Klopp was to go in 2-3 years, with Mane, Salah, VVD and Firmino all post-30, this side will be scraping around like the rest.

My advice to Pool fans is to enjoy every single trophy and moment because it can all be gone in the blink of an eye and some things, like a world class Jordan Henderson, are not always what they seem.

Henderson was at this standard in the 13/14 season under Brendan.

 

[Suedesi]

When I think great player, immediately my mind brings up an image of Jordan Henderson

 

[giorno]

Yes I agree with that except for the 6 games where City lost De Bruyne has been excellent. The liverpool players on the other hand have been professionally dispatching teams throughout the season with no losses so far. It really depends on the opinions of who is judging. I honestly don't know which way I would go but I can definitely see an argument for a few players to get it.

How many games did liverpool lose when Salah won POTY? Was Salah amazing in every single game?(he wasn't)

It's the same thing. Only where Salah scored the goals, De Bruyne is setting them up. Both at historical rates

No liverpool player this season is comparable individually. Liverpool are getting a great season from pretty much everyone of their players, but nobody is playing at an historical level. De Bruyne is

 

[Champagne Football]

I remember Steve Bruce saying Jordan Henderson is the best young player he ever worked with, while he was Sunderland manager in 2010. Henderson would have walked to Manchester to play for Fsrgie.

But in fairness, as effective as he is for Liverpool, he's one of those players who is undroppable because of the work ethic, a player who works 3 times harder than everyone else, but without being particularly gifted. Mctominay and Fletcher were/are similar types.

 

[djembatheking]

When I think great player, immediately my mind brings up an image of Jordan Henderson

Yep ,could easily see him winning the Balon D`oh .

 

[Stick]

How many games did liverpool lose when Salah won POTY? Was Salah the best amazing in every single game?(he wasn't)

It's the same thing. Only where Salah scored the goals, De Bruyne is setting them up. Both at historical rates

Yes i don't disagree with you. I just don't think it's as clear cut as you do to say De Bruyne is the POTY. If I were judging he would be one to consider as would Jamie Vardy. I then look at TAA who is part of a liverpool team at right back who has 10 assists this year. Personally, as Suedesi states, I dont see a picture of Henderson when I get asked to think of a great footballer but he has upped his game significantly and become a rather large and important cog in a midfield of a team that is currently unbeaten this season. If the team were to maintain this standard and remain unbeaten then that would be their own historical rate.

 

[Maluco]

Henderson was at this standard in the 13/14 season under Brendan.

Genuinely would be surprised if that was the case.

Any stats to back this up? Can’t imagine he was covering even nearly the same ground under Brenton, for one.

 

[Swarlos]

How many games did liverpool lose when Salah won POTY? Was Salah amazing in every single game?(he wasn't)

It's the same thing. Only where Salah scored the goals, De Bruyne is setting them up. Both at historical rates

No liverpool player this season is comparable individually. Liverpool are getting a great season from pretty much everyone of their players, but nobody is playing at an historical level. De Bruyne is

You can easily argue that at least Trent is.

 

[giorno]

You can easily argue that at least Trent is.

Only if you still put stock in positions

But even if you do, sure. That still confirms my point that Henderson being a POTY candidate right now is ridiculous

 

[gza the genius]

He's somehow both. His value to the team is much greater than his actual skill level so you tend to see both sides of the argument when talking about him.

 

[Newstar]

De Bruyne has 15 assist and is almost certainly going to break the PL single-season assists record, he's THE best playmaker and creator in the world and has been consistently the best player on the pitch in more games than anyone esle. He's having an historical season for an attacking playmaker in the PL, the best we've seen in two decades so far

How many games did liverpool lose when Salah won POTY? Was Salah amazing in every single game?(he wasn't)

It's the same thing. Only where Salah scored the goals, De Bruyne is setting them up. Both at historical rates

No liverpool player this season is comparable individually. Liverpool are getting a great season from pretty much everyone of their players, but nobody is playing at an historical level. De Bruyne is

Providing he plays the rest of the games he's on for about 23 assist going at his current rate. Henry has the current record assists, with 20, but that season he also added 24 goals making it a total of 44 goal contributions. In Salah's record breaking season he scored 32 goals and added 10 assist, giving him 42 goal contributions.

De Bruyne currently has 22 goal contributions, the all round performance isn't on the same level as those two previous record breaking seasons. He'll probably hit about 32 goal contributions if he manages to play every game, it's brilliant but overall it's not a huge standout like the seasons those previous records have been set. You could say that Trent is on for a historical season for a defender (most assist for a defender breaking his own record), just as De Bruyne is for an attacking player.

De Bruyne is arguably the best player in the league, certainly top 3, but to say he HAS to be POTY simply based on his assists alone is wrong. I wouldn't begrudge him getting it, he has been really good - but plenty of Liverpool players are having really good seasons and are currently trying to create a bit of history of their own, you can't be left speechless if say Henderson, Mane or VVD pick it up either.

 

[Stick]

Genuinely would be surprised if that was the case.

Any stats to back this up? Can’t imagine he was covering even nearly the same ground under Brenton, for one.

Just Google his stats on transfer market. 4 goals and 7 assists in 13/14 from 35 games but again his influence in the team is a big part. As someone said he wasnt playing vs Chelsea. This year I think hes 3 and 5 from 24 games.

 

[Stick]

Only if you still put stock in positions

But even if you do, sure. That still confirms my point that Henderson being a POTY candidate right now is ridiculous

There are much more stats to look at though. Very tough to compare midfielders and defenders.

 

[B20]

He was one of the few players who maintained their level in 14/15 as well. Not much that gets remembered from that season other than how rank average we were as a team though.

As I mentioned, he actually regressed a fair bit bit under Klopp up until 13 months ago when he was finally moved back into the box to box role.

 

[Storm Force]

POTY will be won from a Liverpool player that is 99% certain

Firmino
Vvd
Hendo or mane
Or Trent who will walk the young player of the year

 

[B20]

Should be De Bruyne tbh.

 

[momo83]

An example that a great manager can make previously crap players become good and become an effective part of winning team.

At United he’d be looked at as Deadwood that needed replacing.

The best teams are always greater then the sum of their parts.

 

[njred]

Genuinely would be surprised if that was the case.

Any stats to back this up? Can’t imagine he was covering even nearly the same ground under Brenton, for one.

One of best players that season. Got suspended at the end of the season. We promptly lost to Chelsea after he was suspended and blew the big lead against Palace. Losing him was huge

 

[B20]

Without taking anything away from De Bruyne's tally, which is fabulous, using goals/assists to measure how well a midfielder is doing is a bit MotD innit?

If we must use stats ahead of seeing how they actually play, then surely stuff like key passes, progressions from deep, interceptions and recoveries should be at the centre of such an evaluation.

I've no idea how those look for midfielders in the league this season, but stuff like goals, assists, tackles and pass completions don't really say all that much about the majority of work a good midfielder is supposed to do.

 

[PickledRed]

Without taking anything away from De Bruyne's tally, which is fabulous, using goals/assists to measure how well a midfielder is doing is a bit MotD innit?

If we must use stats ahead of seeing how they actually play, then surely stuff like key passes, progressions from deep, interceptions and recoveries should be at the centre of such an evaluation.

I've no idea how those look for midfielders in the league this season, but stuff like goals, assists, tackles and pass completions don't really say all that much about the majority of work a good midfielder is supposed to do.

Indeed. When scouting for a ‘good fit’ I’m almost certain any half decent recruiting team will look beneath the surface headlines to look at distance covered, positioning etc. Obviously goals and assists are vital but team building is more sophisticated than checking the BBC’s top scorers list.

 

[PickledRed]

Genuinely would be surprised if that was the case.

Any stats to back this up? Can’t imagine he was covering even nearly the same ground under Brenton, for one.

He was great 13/14.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

His historical stats are here

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/68659/History/Jordan-Henderson

The Liverpool posters assertions are backed up. Statistically he was better in 13/14 & 14/15 according to whoscored anyway. In 14/15 he had 15 goals and assists. Pogba has 14,11,20,9,16 & 22 in his full professional seasons so bang on his average over that time, so not bad.

His form went down after those seasons and has returned this season.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Apparently a rubbish midfielder but would walk into our midfield with his eyes closed and that's been the case for about 4yrs.

 

[giorno]

Without taking anything away from De Bruyne's tally, which is fabulous, using goals/assists to measure how well a midfielder is doing is a bit MotD innit?

Goals are goals, they're one of the most valuable metrics to judge performance(by which i mean lots of goals)

But i do agree with your overall point, in general

Massive outliers however are a different story

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Struggled against West Ham and lost against Watford. No Henderson. Coincidence?

 

[Man of Leisure]

Is he really that important of a player to them? Hard to believe, as he seems so average. Trying hard is prolly his best attribute.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Struggled against West Ham and lost against Watford. No Henderson. Coincidence?

The uncomfortable truth.

 

[fps]

Struggled against West Ham and lost against Watford. No Henderson. Coincidence?

Absolutely not, as you’re hinting he is a key man.

 

[Speedy30]

Is he really that important of a player to them? Hard to believe, as he seems so average. Trying hard is prolly his best attribute.

He really is. Even back in 2014, I still believe that had Henderson not been sent off against City, we'd have won the league that year. He's certainly not the best player at Liverpool but he brings something to the team that no one else seems able to do.

 

[Kostov]

I'd have Henderson in a Manchester United shirt over Fred/Matic in a heartbeat.

 

[JamesO]

Is he really that important of a player to them? Hard to believe, as he seems so average. Trying hard is prolly his best attribute.

He's the leader. He sets the tone on the pitch and at the club.

Someone like that is vitally important in any team, especially when performances aren't what they should be.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Selfish cheerleader.

Should be nowhere near the Euro’s.

 

[redrobed]

Very lucky to be playing for a non-relegation threatened PL side. His main attribute is the extent to which he craves attention.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

Thought this guy was supposed to be the embodiment of leadership on and off the pitch.

Great leadership taking that penalty with a history of being poor at them, should have allowed DCL to take it being back up striker and all.

As stated above, selfish cheerleader.

 

[TheReligion]

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

He's the big man, and everyone respects him deeply..

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

fecking clown.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He missed against Colombia at WC18 in the shootout so I think he wanted to score one before the competition for confidence. Didn't work.