José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pyro19

Full Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
677
People will be singing a different tune once we win the next 2-3 games but I'll maintain he needs to go if we finish anything other than as the champions.

I've had too many false dawns with him as our manager. Simply not good enough.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
It's execution is very difficult, unless you have elite players playing on top of their game with elite midfielders who can play make better than our midfielders can do. Nothing is going to change unless there is any intent to change from the manager.
Tired of reading this shite about 'elite' players. What elite players did Wolves have today to play much more better football than us?
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,372
Location
Birmingham
It's better he steps down after this season however we perform and wherever we finish. We need a proper coach and he's not the one.
Walk away from 15m a year. He'd have to be bonkers.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
Our attacking plays, passing sideways till we get to a good crossing position then cross and hope, or waiting for Pogba to pull something out of his ass. Its indefensible
 

Nuts

Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
1,288
It's execution is very difficult, unless you have elite players playing on top of their game with elite midfielders who can play make better than our midfielders can do. Nothing is going to change unless there is any intent to change from the manager.
Look at the performances Klopp regularly gets from a midfield of Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum - they’re responding to a positive, confidence giving manager who gives teams an identity and purpose.

Can you imagine those players coming up with these performances under Mourinho?
 

Aloysius's Back 3

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
2,770
Look at the performances Klopp regularly gets from a midfield of Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum - they’re responding to a positive, confidence giving manager who gives teams an identity and purpose.

Can you imagine those players coming up with these performances under Mourinho?
Well put.
 

Hugh Jass

Shave Dass
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
11,293
Our attacking plays, passing sideways till we get to a good crossing position then cross and hope, or waiting for Pogba to pull something out of his ass. Its indefensible
Agreed. It is relying on players to be lucky. Rather than distinct tactical attacking play like Pep or Klopp do. Pogbas goal against Young Boys is an example of this, the first goal that is. We were poor until that point.

The first game under Mourinho was the same. I remember it well because i met up with a friend to watch it against southampton. Just waiting for the opposition defence to make a mistake and then score. I can understand the tactics against good teams or away from home, but not at home against poorer teams. We should have steamrolled Wolves today.

Since ferguson left, it has kind of been a disaster. Bar winning the Europa, which we were kind of lucky to win given the real sociedad player missed an open goal last second of the game.
 

steffyr2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,775
Tired of reading this shite about 'elite' players. What elite players did Wolves have today to play much more better football than us?
They didn't. We played equal to wolves and tied. We'd like to think we're better than that, but I'm not seeing it. How we got to 2nd last year?

And of course, why we didn't get some new players in the summer.
 

PoTMS

Full Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
16,391
We can win our next three then lost our next two. This team is not good enough but ultimately, the buck lies with the manager. He was responsible for signing many of the duds we currently have playing for us and he is responsible for the utter shitfest we are served up on a weekly basis. You see teams with inferior players playing some great attacking football and think why the feck can we not do that?

Fully expect the people higher up at this club to do nothing whatsoever up until the moment it's mathematically impossible to get top four and we're dumped out of the cups. That day where we finally cut ties with Mourinho can't come soon enough although I really don't know where we go from there. The best managers are already at our rival clubs.
 

m1tch

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
7,119
Ferguson had Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck performing regularly for the league champions.
You just know if he was still manager today we'd have those 3 in the lineup and would have picked up 3 points.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Ferguson had Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck performing regularly for the league champions.
You forgot the Burgher man Anderson. Dominated midfields that had Gerrard, Fabregas etc.

I was one of his supporters when he came but now I think he is past it and needs to go. It is like Wenger at Arsenal. He was too stubborn to see the light and now it is the same with Jose. Fergie who won the League in 92/93 would have not won the league in 2012/2013. But it was a different Fergie who won the league in 2012/13.
He was able to adapt himself and change the way we played to the times of the day. Jose is not able to do that and he will never be able to do that. Rarely has players fallen out with SAF early at United. It was only after a while that a few players fell out with him and mostly it was to do with other players rather than Fergie himself.

Jose needs to go if we are going to be a top club. He might very well go to another and become a champion but not at United and not with the kind of players he loves like Lukaku, Valencia etc.
 

Patrick08

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,447
Look at the performances Klopp regularly gets from a midfield of Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum - they’re responding to a positive, confidence giving manager who gives teams an identity and purpose.

Can you imagine those players coming up with these performances under Mourinho?
I think you dint follow the earlier discussion going on,to which i posted a response.

What i meant the way Jose sets out the tactics with us, our players do not have the strengths to pull it off successfully as their game lacks certain qualities required for the players which one generally associate with elite level of talent Jose has managed before coming here with Chelsea in the past and his Real madrid side, who had better talents in crucial positions we lack, namely in midfield and attack and central defense,namely( Robben, Cole Lampard, Terry, Drogba, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Dimaria, Benzema,Prime Ozil, Modric, Alonso , Ramos). None of talents we have currently are as effcient to pull his tactics off with ruthlessness and quality, but still Jose keeps doing the same thing when its not working.

You took my statement, isolated it and the meaning of it changed in this instance by the way it got intetrpreted.
 
Last edited:

deafepl

New Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
2,974
I can't believe how it is easy to get behind in our defence, our defence needs to strengthen as it seems that we want to play quick pass & high line.

I'm starting to dislike Lingard more, maybe his movement is great but god he is haven't shown any attacking like Martial and Sanchez, all he can offer is by passing backwards to midfielders to deal with balls and run. What's point of benching Sanchez for Mata when he is getting into games and created few chances for them. We were starved out of chances when we benched Sanchez and become too dependent on Pogba.

Jose Mourinho just messed up subs, we shouldn't bench Fred and Sanchez but instead, it must be Lingard, to be drop for Martial so we can control the match with extra players like Sanchez and Fred will create chances instead of being too dependent on Pogba, Martial may be more proactive to attack than Lingard.
 
Last edited:

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
8,553
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
2nd half midfield shuffle, left the back exposed and our midfield lacking stability. It's more balance in 1st half, with both Pogba and Fred focusing on attack and both did unlocked their defence with a goal.

Questioning Mou's decision with this one.

His 3 subs is fair, attacking emphasize, and subbing out the under-performed guys.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
They didn't. We played equal to wolves and tied. We'd like to think we're better than that, but I'm not seeing it. How we got to 2nd last year?

And of course, why we didn't get some new players in the summer.
Their attacking play was better, they worked our keeper more, especially in the first half. How many more players do you think we need before we can outplay and win Wolves at home?
 

Aloysius's Back 3

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
2,770
Their attacking play was better, they worked our keeper more, especially in the first half. How many more players do you think we need before we can outplay and win Wolves at home?
It's not even about outplaying mate - it's the fact that Jose does not really see much use of holding the game by the neck - ie having complete control of the match. This requires a standard of practice & we still don't have it. Willian would have done nothing to it.

You see what we been practicing? Quick passes forward apparently - not because we want to control the game but we want to attack quickly & get it done with by again practicing different forms of counter attack.

Danny Murphy said it on motd yesterday that teams come to old Trafford & willingly attack - not because of the players but because of the tactics because we bypass trying to hold on to the match with our control. The only time we do is unless of course we get desperate and go for the long ball option. Then we suddenly want more of the ball.
 

Patrick08

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,447
It's not even about outplaying mate - it's the fact that Jose does not really see much use of holding the game by the neck - ie having complete control of the match. This requires a standard of practice & we still don't have it. Willian would have done nothing to it.

You see what we been practicing? Quick passes forward apparently - not because we want to control the game but we want to attack quickly & get it done with by again practicing different forms of counter attack.

Danny Murphy said it on motd yesterday that teams come to old Trafford & willingly attack - not because of the players but because of the tactics because we bypass trying to hold on to the match with our control. The only time we do is unless of course we get desperate and go for the long ball option. Then we suddenly want more of the ball.
When i watch us play, i am clueless about what is the team trying to achieve with the ball all the time, when its not even working for long periods of the game. We don't even fill the ample spaces we leave in attack and the distances between mid attack and defense are huge, pogba is so damn mediocre at basics of midfield play he has minimum control of the match , he just does not press or work hard enough to recover the ball in the middle, Matic has been on and off this season and we struggle without him as well while he is also declining. All our midfielders concede space to opposition players in the middle to pull the strings and create a decent attack and our defense is leaky as well. Need less back passes, slowing down the game when our style is counter attacking and directness, long balls after long balls, needless gifting off the ball to opposition , passing sideways and sideways, lack of attacking movement inside from wide players, fullbacks not overlapping at all, its so effing mediocre all around and then all response we get from Jose now is "players lack the mental attitude".

Baffled with the tactics now, he never solves the problem, and i doubt now he ever will, because he is at the centre of that problem. He is too a LVG disciple after all in a reverse direction.
 

Aloysius's Back 3

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
2,770
When i watch us play, i am clueless about what is the team trying to achieve with the ball all the time, when its not even working for long periods of the game. We don't even fill the ample spaces we leave in attack and the distances between mid attack and defense are huge, pogba is so damn mediocre at basics of midfield play he has minimum control of the match , he just does not press or work hard enough to recover the ball in the middle, Matic has been on and off this season and we struggle without him as well while he is also declining. All our midfielders concede space to opposition players in the middle to pull the strings and create a decent attack and our defense is leaky as well. Need less back passes, slowing down the game when our style is counter attacking and directness, long balls after long balls, needless gifting off the ball to opposition , passing sideways and sideways, lack of attacking movement inside from wide players, fullbacks not overlapping at all, its so effing mediocre all around and then all response we get from Jose now is "players lack the mental attitude".

Baffled with the tactics now, he never solves the problem, and i doubt now he ever will, because he is at the centre of that problem. He is too a LVG disciple after all in a reverse direction.
Tactically the game to me at least in the PL has moved towards a team symmetry.

We can't have one fullback who stays back whilst the other one rarely goes forward. We can't have one winger providing width for the central target man whilst the other is cutting in to sometimes join the forwards or he attacking midfield. We can't play 3 midfielders who play in 3 different ways - as you said we have Pogba who doesn't break up the play, matic who does but doesn't have the passing of Pogba & likewise Fred who looks like a quick transition quick passer box to box midfielder. The central defence currently has one defender that can't seem to hold the ground & head the ball, another one that can't pass whilst also playing another CDM there.

Playing with such a wide variety of individuals who play the game a different way does not allow the team to play as a Unit.

They are all individuals with individual characteristics - made to puzzle together to create a very distinct & strict type of play.

I hate to mention other teams but I will -

Klopps forward are symmetrical planning to do the same thing - Mane & Salah on either side of a single central supplier false 9 in firminh0. His midfield is pure tenacity & all are capable to break up the opponent & to get the ball forward rather than focusing on long distance passes - the same after adding Nabi keita for example to widjnaldum, Milner & Henderson. Both fullbacks get forward regularly & their defense can both play the ball.

Pep's City - all the forwards have the same role - hardly any difference between sane & sterling; apart from quality not much different from aguero & Gabriel jesus the way they play - all forwards roles are to finish off moves by their possession based midfield of de bryune, silva & fernandinh0 or if they can create their own chances between them. Their fullbacks gets Hella forward too on both sides.

The opponents don't fear us anymore because we don't have a team ethic - a team plan. Forget the quality of the players - but would the opposition be more scared of facing the same attacking threat from the left and right like mane & Salah - or have to deal with one winger who cuts in & one winger who holds width to cross, with one striker playing centrally as a target man.

We have a group of 11 players who currently play football in different ways with individually different tactics whilst other teams have a group of 11 that play as a team playing one symmetrical style of football be that the attack, defense or midfield.

Playing against a team that play symmetrically is harder than against a team full of individuals where one player like Lukaku or Pogba is playing differently to Rashford, Martial or Fred.

The same thing happened when Liverpool out done PSG - pure individualism of different players rather than the team attempting to play a certain style of football. I doubt Jose is finished as a manager - but he is done in the PL; giving him the opportunity to buy his own world XI would still not be that good because they would play like individuals rather than an actual team. The PL has improved.
 

Kapardin

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
9,917
Location
Chennai, India
I'd be more supportive of him if he mixes things up and tried to make it work:

1) If Lukaku and Sanchez are not playing well, why not do something different? Play Sanchez as striker with Martial and Lingard on the wings and bench Lukaku for a period. But no, he will continue to play Sanchez on the left until it stares him in the face that Sanchez won't ever do anything useful.

2) Fred had the game of his life. Can we expect to see him start over Matic when Matic's suspension is over? No. Matic will come back into the team because he's Jose's "warrior". In reality, Matic is not suited to the role and should be competing with Fellaini while Fred starts with Pogba.

3) When Martial scored a goal against YB, even if the opposition was poor why not give him some hope by starting him over Sanchez? Benching him despite scoring makes him even more sulky as he knows he can't ever take Sanchez's place.

So many bad decisions that I don't know where to begin.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
8,021
Location
Ireland
We fans can see who is underperforming every week but Mourinho cannot see this. Sanchez keeps losing possession on us all the time, and is costing us points on the board. Mourinho keeps blaming the players attitude when we lose, but it is up to him as manager to make sure the attitude is right.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,372
Location
Birmingham
If the club gave Mourinho a midfield of Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner, he'd spontaneously combust. We would hear about "heritage" every press conference.
It seems the excuses will never end.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
19,788
As much as I like the 433 formation I don't think it's a good formation for our forwards, none of them look in sync and we also have a massive gap on right as there's no one to play there. All of our forwards minus lingard and mata look better as strikers. I think we need to move to a formation where we play two up top.
 

CA1

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
1,894
I honestly think him getting us to 2nd last season with this squad and working under this structure of a football club was a miracle.

A great manager, he's far too good for our owners and board.
 

Rash Decision

not to use the cream
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
1,525
Location
In your closet, in your head!
As much as I like the 433 formation I don't think it's a good formation for our forwards, none of them look in sync and we also have a massive gap on right as there's no one to play there. All of our forwards minus lingard and mata look better as strikers. I think we need to move to a formation where we play two up top.
We've tried 4231, 433, 352, 442... all these formations had detractors arguing that our players didn't suit them. None of the formations will work until the players are actually coached to attack in a structured and organised manner.

But I agree with you that most of our attackers look better as strikers or at most wide forwards.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
19,788
We've tried 4231, 433, 352, 442... all these formations had detractors arguing that our players didn't suit them. None of the formations will work until the players are actually coached to attack in a structured and organised manner.

But I agree with you that most of our attackers look better as strikers or at most wide forwards.
We look good in a 352 but we lack ball playing CB, we didn't have the players for a 442 last season but we have them this season, especially a diamond 442

Two FB providing width - Shaw and Dalot
DM/#6 - Matic Pereira and Fellaini
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,372
Location
Birmingham
I honestly think him getting us to 2nd last season with this squad and working under this structure of a football club was a miracle.

A great manager, he's far too good for our owners and board.
Yep, a team with a £75m striker, £130m midfield £70m CBs and a £350,000 per week attacker, all his signings in addition to the best GK in the world, finishing second was such a miracle.
I should probably ask him to turn my water into wine.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
I honestly think him getting us to 2nd last season with this squad and working under this structure of a football club was a miracle.

A great manager, he's far too good for our owners and board.
You should try comedy.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Well it kind of was a miracle considering how bad he had us playing.
The real miracle was the number of goals we managed to score given how shite our creativity is, not just individually but systemically.
 

CA1

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
1,894
You should try comedy.
Yep, a team with a £75m striker, £130m midfield £70m CBs and a £350,000 per week attacker, all his signings in addition to the best GK in the world, finishing second was such a miracle.
I should probably ask him to turn my water into wine.
Wait for the next manager my friends. I bet they don't manage higher than 2nd under our owners and board. Every year will be a battle for top 4.

Only the owners and board changing will resolve this, the coach/manager will not make a slightest bit of improvement, in fact it will most likely be much worse. Mourinho is one of the best managers in the world. Time for people to wake up I think.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Wait for the next manager my friends. I bet they don't manage higher than 2nd under our owners and board. Every year will be a battle for top 4.

Only the owners and board changing will resolve this, the coach/manager will not make a slightest bit of improvement, in fact it will most likely be much worse. Mourinho is one of the best managers in the world. Time for people to wake up I think.
In 2018 no he most definitely is not.
 

Garethw

scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
16,998
Location
England:
I honestly think him getting us to 2nd last season with this squad and working under this structure of a football club was a miracle.

A great manager, he's far too good for our owners and board.
Stop smoking crack.
 

CA1

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
1,894
In 2018 no he most definitely is not.
Mourinho has won a league at every job he's done but not here.

We're the problem, not him. The next manager will be a busted flush after 2 years with us and we'll all say he wasn't good enough etc etc. It's the new England managers job, all the expectation with none of the actual structure or tools.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Mourinho has won a league at every job he's done but not here.

We're the problem, not him. The next manager will be a busted flush after 2 years with us and we'll all say he wasn't good enough etc etc. It's the new England managers job, all the expectation with none of the actual structure or tools.
Ah yes, we're the first time he's had issues at a club. :lol:

Get lost you troll.
 

CA1

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
1,894
Ah yes, we're the first time he's had issues at a club. :lol:

Get lost you troll.
He's had problems but he's literally won the league everywhere he's been but us. He's proven that he's a top manager, since Fergie left we've not proven we're a top club.

Don't forget Van Gaal was a top coach before us who had loads of success under the right footballing structure i.e not under that no-hoper Woodward.

The owners and board are the problem. The quicker you figure that out the better. It will be the hope that kills you when the next manager comes in and fails.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.