Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Shimo]

Assessing Mourinho's approach to the game yesterday

a) He setup as he typically does against a strong opponent with being highly organized and looking to counter. To that effect we started off well but, Real's quality showed especially in that 20-40 min span as he said.

b) People moan about throwing Fellaini on but, he clearly helped us change the game in our favor even if it's not the "beautiful" game people want. Ultimately we want to win and he made the right move to get us back in it

c) But after getting us back in it - not to throw on a potential game changer in Martial to me was a huge miss. Really not sure what he was thinking. He could have pulled Matic and let Pogba sit and let Rashford/Lukaku play up top for the last part being supported by Fellaini still and with Martial out wide. Marcelo was clearly gassed and was there for the taking. Rashford showed it early in the second half but, failed to take advantage of it later on.

Mourinho needs to let go of the reins this season a bit more because draws are not going to be good enough like last season. We made OT a defensive fortress but, no one really fears us and that has to change and only way that happens is if the manager lets the players have a real go at teams.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Worst performer last night was Jose. He picked the wrong team and formation and had to try and make amends for that by taking off Lingard and Herrera. He didn't have us press, yet started Hererra--only to realise how pointless that is when they're instructed to not press. We've had a full pre-season yet it seems we haven't trained defending or taking set-pieces which is the bread and butter of a coach's work. The team looked tactically clueless, lop-sided and mis-shapen with no movement. We're playing 3-5-2 which we hated under LVG despitd not having the wingbacks and personnel for it. These are all the coaches fault and things he hasn't corrected since LVG. We have made very little progress since LVG. He has to coach them extensively this season and hopefully no EL football helps this.

 

[meninred]

I agree with most of what is said. If we see the spine of the team (with mouriniho favored 4-3-3 formation )
I would say Degea, Valenica..Bailly..Matic..herera..pogba..lukaku..
let us add..luke shaw as left back..mikyatryan as one of the wing players
and one center back as a fight among the three or four avail
one wing player left..that could be why he wants to buy one.
a pacy creative wing player that can deliver assists since we will lack creativity in the midfield three.

 

[automaticflare]

I think Jose main problem is where to fit in Mickytarian.
His best position is not out wide right. He is much more of a threat through the middle.
If our right side was a consistent performer we could accomodate game time and inconsistency from Martial/Rashford on the left.
Give Micki's tendency to come inside it literally means Martial/Rashford are our only wide threat and they are inconsistent young players.
This is a problem.

Other than that I think this current side is ready to compete for the league.
European honors is another question. We are still lagging behind top sides in Europe but i think that is to be expected at moment.

Looking forward to start of the season. First 7 games are all winnable and if we can do that we are 1/4 way to winning the league IMO.
We simply have to put away the smaller teams. Big games will look after themselves

 

[Suedesi]

First coach to have lost 3 Super Cups - Porto 2003, Chelsea 2013, United 2017.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The same garbage than last season against good opposition. Before they scored the first goal we had all our team under the goal posts, just clearing the ball away and conceding attacks one after another. Review the match thread and you'll see that everyone thought it was predictable and we were getting destroyed.

https://www.redcafe.net/matches/real-madrid-vs-manchester-united.175/discussion?page=29

The team improved in the second half with nothing to lose but in overall was such a coward and uninspiring performance, with the same negative patterns that we saw last season in this kind of games.

Matchday thread links for insight. A new low.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

First coach to have lost 3 Super Cups - Porto 2003, Chelsea 2013, United 2017.

Most clubs would kill to have a manager who's competed in three Super Cups. Stupid to get too hung up on results when everyone knows they're glorified friendlies that nobody gives much of a shit about.

 

[Devil may care]

People complain about negativity but the man in charge sets that tone, we are tumescent to watch, the team doesn't look like it spends much time on attacking drills, everyone is well versed in what do do when we don't have the ball, but on it we are as basic as it gets, and when nothing comes off it's throw the ugliest type player in football on and lump it up, for the money spent and the traditions of the club it's miles off what we should be seeing.

 

[Suedesi]

Most clubs would kill to have a manager who's competed in three Super Cups. Stupid to get too hung up on results when everyone knows they're glorified friendlies that nobody gives much of a shit about.

We're not most clubs though, we're one of the biggest club in the world.

If they're glorified friendlies, why does Mourinho shit the bed with his tactics?

 

[Minimalist]

Not going to bash the set up too much - more interested in how we get on with West Ham. I am still concerned with how the attack works - seems very much same as last season, which was my worry when people spoke months ago of Griezmann coming in (and somehow changing everything).

I do think we need a thread to discuss Mourinho's match tactics/setup though. Seems like at times there's a huge unnecessary backlash against discussing Mourinho's role in poor performances but no issue when he gets it right.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We're not most clubs though, we're one of the biggest club in the world.

No shit, sherlock. I guess that's why we hired him.

If they're glorified friendlies, why does Mourinho shit the bed with his tactics?

Same as all glorified friendlies. An opportunity to try out teams/tactics you might use again in a game that actually matters. Obviously.

 

[acnumber9]

We're not most clubs though, we're one of the biggest club in the world.

If they're glorified friendlies, why does Mourinho shit the bed with his tactics?

In what way did the tactics lose the game though? We lost the game because they have a much better team than we do.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not going to bash the set up too much - more interested in how we get on with West Ham. I am still concerned with how the attack works - seems very much same as last season, which was my worry when people spoke of Griezmann coming in (and somehow changing everything).

I do think we need a thread to discuss Mourinho's match tactics/setup though. Seems like at times there's a huge unnecessary backlash against discussing Mourinho's role in poor performances but no issue when he gets it right.

The attack is my big issue. We have replaced Zlatan with an equal maybe even lesser player in Lukaku. Although he is younger, Zlatan is just Zlatan. Yet otherwise we have the same players who failed miserably last season. I cannot see where the goals are coming from and the service for Lukaku. I still think we need another striking option and a winger to be honest. If Lukaku, god forbid was out, then we have a kid in Rashford who has not yet learnt to make the right decisions entirely in front of goal. Martial who breaks a nail and has a nervous breakdown. Hope now we go out and score a ton of goals against WHU and allay a lot of peoples fears.

 

[Suedesi]

No shit, sherlock. I guess that's why we hired him.



Same as all glorified friendlies. An opportunity to try out teams/tactics you might use again in a game that actually matters. Obviously.

Your'e saying "Most clubs would kill to have a manager who's competed in three Super Cups" trying to spin it as a positive, but we're not most clubs, we're the biggest. So pardon me if I don't give a shit about your point about most clubs.

 

[Oneunited26]

Have been saying it for time, but with signing Matic/Lukaku, targeting Perisic after already signing Pogba, Bailly, Zlatan, it looks like Mou wants to build a very physical side who are decent (not great) on the ball and tactically. That will take us further in the PL than it will in Europe I fear.

It was disturbing how PPL hyped up the height of the team, when Real exposed the idea height means jack shit if the quality is not there. To be honest I will be very surprised if we get far in the PL in terms of winning it, let alone the CL. He's not moved on the players who were part of the reason why we looked so poor, he's not improved our attack a great deal while tactically we will most likely be has toothless as ever. Our more talented forwards he is isolating for much inferior players like lingard AGAIN, and defense is not great. So overall I see yet another poor to frustrating PL campaign. But it won't surprise me if we have the same situation has last season, struggling to make the top 4, maybe a quarter final CL run at best and maybe win an FA cup or league cup

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Your'e saying "Most clubs would kill to have a manager who's competed in three Super Cups" trying to spin it as a positive, but we're not most clubs, we're the biggest. So pardon me if I don't give a shit about your point about most clubs.

Untwist your panties, darling. The fact that Mourinho has played in three Super Cups is impressive in and of itself, so that's the most striking thing from the post you made with that stupid gif. You may not give a shit about this point but I - and most sensible fans - don't give a shit about the results.

 

[horsechoker]

First coach to have lost 3 Super Cups - Porto 2003, Chelsea 2013, United 2017.

Haven't we lost the last 3 super cups we've been in too?

 

[Suedesi]

In what way did the tactics lose the game though? We lost the game because they have a much better team than we do.

Er, the stupid 3-5-2, that big gap he left in the middle of the park, picking the wrong team (Lingard, Mkhi) and finally I cant decide which is funnier, the fact that bringing Fellaini on as a target man is plan B, or the fact that it actually improves our play.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Haven't we lost the last 3 super cups we've been in too?

Yup. Which must be a real blow to @Suedesi 's assertion that we're the biggest club in the world.

 

[Suedesi]

Untwist your panties, darling. The fact that Mourinho has played in three Super Cups is impressive in and of itself, so that's the most striking thing from the post you made with that stupid gif. You may not give a shit about this point but I - and most sensible fans - don't give a shit about the results.

Untwist your panties, darling - wow! So cutting! Ignore list.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

My problem is, we will use the same tactics against teams not even as good as Madrid.
We won't win many big games and I've made my peace with it.

Considering you have posted "I've made my peace with it" several times now. I think you haven't.
This is the Mourinho way unfortunately and is not going to change regardless of who we get in transfers. Like others have said we will do good in the league but we should forget about Europe for now.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Er, the stupid 3-5-2, that big gap he left in the middle of the park, picking the wrong team (Lingard, Mkhi) and finally I cant decide which is funnier, the fact that bringing Fellaini on as a target man is plan B, or the fact that it actually improves our play.

Bringing on a big target man when losing a game isn't unusual in football. Fellaini is not as useless as most people think he can be an effective plan B as he shown last night.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yup. Which must be a real blow to @Suedesi 's assertion that we're the biggest club in the world.

We are the richest club. Think at this moment in time Real are the biggest and best.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He needs to be more attacking minded or he'll end up digging his own grave.

 

[AXVnee7]

I don't get this 'glorified friendly' mentality. I want to win everything out there, and this was a cup final against the strongest team out there.

Obviously the Super Cup isn't a major trophy, but that means I don't feel as disappointed if we lose or don't brag as much if we win. I hope Jose whilst emphasising other honours, doesn't ever get to the point where he just doesn't give a damn about the result. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case.

In terms of our manager's performance I think Jose got it wrong initially but recognised and changed things within due time and thanks to his changes we looked a better outfit. I know we defended poorly but I also know Mourinho's CB's were chosen for him so I give him leeway.

 

[Suedesi]

Haven't we lost the last 3 super cups we've been in too?

Sure, and here's Fergie how he regretted not taking it more seriously.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Haven't we lost the last 3 super cups we've been in too?

Well we won in 1991 against Red Star Belgrade. The final was supposed to be played over two legs but the 2nd leg didn't get played because of the trouble in Yugoslavia. The others we lost in 1999 against Lazio then in 2008 against Zenit and of course last night. So yeah we have a bad record too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You can't even argue that we're only downplaying the competition because we lost. We won another, similar, silly cup when we beat some South American team after winning the CL. Genuinely can't remember who the feck they were, or where the game was played.

EDIT: Was it played in mid-season? Load of old bollox anyway. Just like the Super Cup.

 

[Suedesi]

I don't get this 'glorified friendly' mentality. I want to win everything out there, and this was a cup final against the strongest team out there.

Obviously the Super Cup isn't a major trophy, but that means I don't feel as disappointed if we lose or don't brag as much if we win. I hope Jose whilst emphasising other honours, doesn't ever get to the point where he just doesn't give a damn about the result. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case.

In terms of our manager's performance I think Jose got it wrong initially but recognised and changed things within due time and thanks to his changes we looked a better outfit. I know we defended poorly but I also know Mourinho's CB's were chosen for him so I give him leeway.

Of course when Jose wins the Charity Shield it's a trophy, (treble!) but he gets d!cked in the Super Cup and it's a friendly.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Of course when Jose wins the Charity Shield it's a trophy, (treble!) but he gets d!cked in the Super Cup and it's a friendly.

Pretty sure the same people who are calling the Super Cup a glorified friendly are the same people who consider the Community Shield as a glorified friendly too.

 

[horsechoker]

Sure, and here's Fergie how he regretted not taking it more seriously.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I'm sure José might have faired better had he taken it seriously and played the quality of opposition Fergie did. Mourinho also played Bayern Munich (who were the best team in the world at that point) in his previous super cup final with a Chelsea team that was probably of the same quality as this United team even then he only lost on penalties to a German team.

 

[AXVnee7]

Of course when Jose wins the Charity Shield it's a trophy, (treble!) but he gets d!cked in the Super Cup and it's a friendly.

Well personally I've been bragging to rival fans about 2 major trophies from last season. But that doesn't mean I don't value the community shield. I was happy when we won it and I know Jose and team were too. It's a nice confidence boost, as would have been beating Real Madrid. Unfortunately it wasn't meant to be and like I said I'm disappointed we couldn't win. Its just that other things will be more significant across the season.

Not caring at all is pointless imo, why even play then? We'd have been better off arranging a friendly here instead of flying to Macedonia and exposing our players to the heat.

 

[horsechoker]

First coach to have lost 3 Super Cups - Porto 2003, Chelsea 2013, United 2017.

He lost 2003 AC Milan, 2013 Bayern and 2017 Madrid.

Bayern and Madrid were the best teams in the world at the time and 2003 AC Milan was one of the best sides in Europe which he took on with a plucky Porto side who he would win Champions League with the next year. He also missed two Super Cups because of changing club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well personally I've been bragging to rival fans about 2 major trophies from last season. But that doesn't mean I don't value the community shield. I was happy when we won it and I know Jose and team were too. It's a nice confidence boost, as would have been beating Real Madrid. Unfortunately it wasn't meant to be and like I said I'm disappointed we couldn't win. Its just that other things will be more significant across the season.

Not caring at all is pointless imo, why even play then? We'd have been better off arranging a friendly here instead of flying to Macedonia and exposing our players to the heat.

The club has an obligation to play and it was a useful pre-season game. As a fan, caring about the result is entirely optional. It's not a match I'd usually even bother watching if we weren't in it, so I wasn't going to pretend it matters now we are.

Charity Shield is the same. Sometimes has a bit of needle if you're up against a rival but everyone knows it's not a trophy worth caring about.

 

[Santoryo]

I'm glad there is a thread for the manager's performances throughout the season as well.

We only have threads about players performances, seems right to add the manager's performances one as well.

 

[Lawman]

Last night showed our limitations but as Hargreaves said with Jose at the helm and United's finances the gap will close.

 

[acnumber9]

Er, the stupid 3-5-2, that big gap he left in the middle of the park, picking the wrong team (Lingard, Mkhi) and finally I cant decide which is funnier, the fact that bringing Fellaini on as a target man is plan B, or the fact that it actually improves our play.

Those aren't the reasons we lost though. As much as I didn't want Fellaini on we were better when he did come on so I'm not sure why that should draw criticism. What formation was going to win us the game and why?

 

[AXVnee7]

The club has an obligation to play and it was a useful pre-season game. As a fan, caring about the result is entirely optional. It's not a match I'd usually even bother watching if we weren't in it, so I wasn't going to pretend it matters now we are.

We're obligated to be in it, so we might aswell try our best to win it instead of treating it as a training session. Of course that's what we did.

As a fan caring about anything is entirely optional. I'm not going to suggest one is a better Utd fan for caring or not caring about the Super Cup. Plenty of our fans don't value the Europa League and/or the EFL cup and only see a 6th placed team in the League. Some people value the League higher than the CL, and vice versa. We all have our own opinions and that's fine.

I'm just of the opinion in that every cup matters (although not equally) but obviously when you're well underway in the season sometimes you have to prioritise depending on squad size, condition and injuries. As I said I'm disappointed to have lost, but it'll be forgotten about by the time we play West Ham on Sunday.

 

[TheBiggest]

Giving out about Mouirnho's tactics...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We're obligated to be in it, so we might aswell try our best to win it instead of treating it as a training session. Of course that's what we did.

As a fan caring about anything is entirely optional. I'm not going to suggest one is a better Utd fan for caring or not caring about the Super Cup. Plenty of our fans don't value the Europa League and/or the EFL cup and only see a 6th placed team in the League. Some people value the League higher than the CL, and vice versa. We all have our own opinions and that's fine.

I'm just of the opinion in that every cup matters (although not equally) but obviously when you're well underway in the season sometimes you have to prioritise depending on squad size, condition and injuries. As I said I'm disappointed to have lost, but it'll be forgotten about by the time we play West Ham on Sunday.

Definitely not doing that. Just explaining why, for many fans, it was a fairly meaningless game. I doubt the players give much of a shit either. Although they wouldn't be where they are without being naturally competitive so probably hate losing any game, even in training.