i do agree on the decreased expectation point compared to other clubs, but I think the whole point of Levy sacking Poch for Jose was one final push with this team to win something now. If he leaves with a 2nd place finish a League Cup and a Uefa Cup he's a legend there. With Kane they should be aiming for the title though.
Jose Mourinho | Spurs manager
- Thread starter roonster09
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
But why would you get a manager and then not back him and align with his philosophy, vision and the culture he wants to instill?
Jose was told by us that basically everything about him is wrong.
We didnt want to buy the players he wanted cuz we didnt believe in his vision. And we basically told him as well thats the culture of the team, snapchatting at halftime, get with the programme old man.
Like we just wanted Jose to suck it up all the time and do what hes told etc.
Granted he is the worst possible manager for that kinda treatment but again, it wasnt him it was us.
He wanted to play a certain way with Perisic and Willian. We said no. He wanted to get rid of Pogba and Martial. We said no.
Whats the point of him or any manager for that manner if you will undercut them every step of the way? And we also told him to accept player power, thats how things are in modern times. Nonsense. When you look back it wasnt him it was us and we will end up getting rid of players he didnt like cuz they are not working out for us. He was right.
Exactly and at Spurs there is no debilitating idea of the "united way'' and needing to play attacking football. He can setup how he likes and as long as the points keep coming in, everyone is happy. I still think they could be where they are but playing much more entertaining and attractive football given their squad is high quality but, as it stands, you can't really argue with Jose's pragmatism
Tbh we have been quite bad against West Brom but still had a few big chances, expected goals was 2.43-0.44. Last game you played West Brom and played even worse than we did today and it took a goalkeeper error at the end of the game to get you through.
But do you honestly think getting the sack at Spurs will prevent him from getting another job?
All it would mean is he is 'finished' in England. Inter or even Real would be happy for him to return there. And if he wants to manage Portugal who would stop him?
He's won titles and trophies at EVERY club he's managed, including the toxic wasteland that is United. Maybe, just maybe he was right about some of the things at our club, like Pogba, martial, etc. Sure, it turned bitter at the end but I think he knew it wasnt going anywhere and threw this toys out of the pram.
Maybe he did learn from that experience? This is an intelligent man after all (I mean he speaks 5 languages!!), so why can't he change? Perhaps these last few years were just a blip in his otherwise incredible 20 year career. Happens to the best of them, even Fergie ( 3 years without a title). This spurs team is typical mourinho. Maybe not the most exciting to watch, but solid defensively, high work rate and goals galore (helps having the best striker in the world mind). Spurs' aim this season has to be a trophy, surely! Whether they are genuine contenders for the league, lets see after the next set of games against chelsea, arsenal, liverpool and leicester. If they manage to get 9 pts or more from those fixtures....I think the title could very well be heading to the lane! Its just a pity he wasn't able to do this with us
Maybe he did learn from that experience? This is an intelligent man after all (I mean he speaks 5 languages!!), so why can't he change? Perhaps these last few years were just a blip in his otherwise incredible 20 year career. Happens to the best of them, even Fergie ( 3 years without a title). This spurs team is typical mourinho. Maybe not the most exciting to watch, but solid defensively, high work rate and goals galore (helps having the best striker in the world mind). Spurs' aim this season has to be a trophy, surely! Whether they are genuine contenders for the league, lets see after the next set of games against chelsea, arsenal, liverpool and leicester. If they manage to get 9 pts or more from those fixtures....I think the title could very well be heading to the lane! Its just a pity he wasn't able to do this with us
What a great reply. And tbh, I’m surprised @InLevyITrust would demean one of Spurs greatest ever managers just to prop up the current one who hasn’t even won anything yet.
And your game against West Brom an almighty 1 game day ago?
Not our fault their keeper broke the rules.
If he wins the league it will be quite an achievement tbh. Would be very impressive
I am tired with this Salah and De Bryune narrative. Will any coach pick Salah over prime Hazard ? Will any coach pick De Bryune over Prime Fabregas / Oscar ? No one will, especially when you are tasked with winning the league straight away. Roman Abramovich isn't the type of person who will listen to an excuse such as "I am building for the future so let me stay here for longer even if i didn't win anything". Jose Mourinho had no choice but to play the best available players there and deliver. I have no doubt Roman will sack Fat frank if he end this season trophyless.
Classic hubris from Glaston. You have to laugh given how many times we’ve been down this path with him
Please also realise Spurs' objective this season is a solid top 4 place, not the league.
That means the board will be fully 100% behind him if he gets that and the fans will also be happy with that.
I think that gives him and the players more focus on trying to overachieve, it's Mourinho so he will not be happy if he wins nothing but he knows he can build on for next year to increase the players' hunger.
Also Spurs atm have TWICE the goals scored by Man City or Arsenal, thank god for Mourinho that Kane and Son are the only good forwards in the league.
That means the board will be fully 100% behind him if he gets that and the fans will also be happy with that.
I think that gives him and the players more focus on trying to overachieve, it's Mourinho so he will not be happy if he wins nothing but he knows he can build on for next year to increase the players' hunger.
Also Spurs atm have TWICE the goals scored by Man City or Arsenal, thank god for Mourinho that Kane and Son are the only good forwards in the league.
It‘s not a typical American culture, as there have been several very successful American sports teams over the past decade who didn’t operate that way. The San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat or the Golden State Warriors are just a few teams to name who never placed one individual’s happiness and fit over that of the entire team.
With that being said, Pogba seems to be too much of a me-first guy and Mourinho rightfully found that out. The problem is, Mourinho’s way of handling it wasn’t right either.
Plus Bruno scored and Kane didnt ffs!Classic hubris from Glaston. You have to laugh given how many times we’ve been down this path with him
How am I demeaning Poch?
Thats kind of my hat's my point. @Amadaeus on one hand is saying Jose got backed and Poch didn't but then saying they both have practically the same team. Poch was a good manager for us but his time was simply at an end.
Bruno needed to score, Kane didn't in the end, he did great work in other areas.
Bruno was fantastic outside of the pen as well. Everything went through him and he should have had 2 assists with the chances he also created.
Kane tracked back in a monstrous team effort.
My original pont wasnt even confined to yesterday. Its been the running theme for months now.
Agree Bruno was great as well, but we shouldn't be relying on him to do absolutely everything. He will be dead on his feet again. We need a clinical striker, we need strikers who are constantly on the move to give options for a pass. Cavani is more that type.
The point concerned contrasting headlines after yesterday's games.
I totally agree and thats why i think VDB is vital as the season progresses but my point is it isnt reported that way. Bruno is above the team saving Ole while Jose is being lauded for getting the best out of Kane. Bruno is one goal behind him in the league as we stand while having a goal contribution per game for over 35(!) games for us.
On another note I really do think Bruno is a midfield version of Ronaldo. He will score or assit every game no matter how bad he plays and will have numbers at the end of the season that will make you think what the utter feck?
1) It took most of us almost 3 years to understand this. 2-3 years back, most of us had better understanding of football than one of the best manager in the world.
2) It’s simple. The fan boys and the incompetent board didn’t let him do it with us.
No, I said this morning. The reports that assess their impact on the season. Theres plenty of them about if you want to look
That's largely irrelevant. Kane assisted one goal, indirectly assisted the other and played a big part generally.
I don't know why anyone is surprised that the glowing media headlines have been about a player who is arguably the best in the world right now and played an an immense game yesterday
The Spurs side are beginning to remind me of Jose’s Inter.
This is revisionist nonsense. Spurs are doing well in a league where most of the top teams have started poorly. You can't fault them for that but that doesn't change history re Mourinho.
It wasn't just Pogba he took issue with. There was Mkhitaryan, Shaw and Martial among others - 2 of the 4 mentioned being his own signings, by the way. This Spurs team is maybe more suited to Mourinho's style but it's no coincidence that we went on a great run by virtue of him leaving either. He was dragging us down and it never would've worked for him here.
You are actually surprised that Kane, arguably the best player in the world, has won the lion's share of media plaudits following his performances this season so far?
Were you also surprised to discover that the moon is not actually made of cheese?
I agree with Bruno and contributing even when his game is a bit off. I also agree he need VDB to help take some of the load off him.
Well, straight from the horse's mouth - he claims that he has a better team at spurs than the one he had at United. One might ask him, how it came to be this way, after he spent half a billion euros on players at United, but I have no problem taking his word that it's true. It probably is a better squad and certainly a better fit.
Also, this prematurely talked about 'title challenge' will depend to a large extent on whether or not City or Liverpool continue to struggle as they have. If that remains the case, it's not just a lower points total to chase, but a significant psychological boon to everyone else including spurs.
Once you consider those two factors, they alone are enough to explain away why a title challenge might be possible, whereas previously it wasn't, without having to resort to fatuous interpretations like 'the game has passed him by'; 'football has moved on' and other such tripe that then necessitates further brilliant analysis like 'he has reinvented himself'; 'a new man!' etc.
Jose is still Jose. Still a cnut, and now that he has all but described himself as such, maybe his United days sycophants can stop taking exception to the rest of us calling him that. Still an excellent manager too, but also a flawed character, and he will deliver dour, reactive football with some regularity. If you're a spurs fan though, you obviously take it.
Also, this prematurely talked about 'title challenge' will depend to a large extent on whether or not City or Liverpool continue to struggle as they have. If that remains the case, it's not just a lower points total to chase, but a significant psychological boon to everyone else including spurs.
Once you consider those two factors, they alone are enough to explain away why a title challenge might be possible, whereas previously it wasn't, without having to resort to fatuous interpretations like 'the game has passed him by'; 'football has moved on' and other such tripe that then necessitates further brilliant analysis like 'he has reinvented himself'; 'a new man!' etc.
Jose is still Jose. Still a cnut, and now that he has all but described himself as such, maybe his United days sycophants can stop taking exception to the rest of us calling him that. Still an excellent manager too, but also a flawed character, and he will deliver dour, reactive football with some regularity. If you're a spurs fan though, you obviously take it.
Kane arguably the best in the world right now? Wow.
Robert Lewandowski says, “hi!”
Spurs is the perfect club for him given his circumstances and the timing of his career currently under management. The lower expectations along with a very good squad is what's helping them to excel. I don't think Spurs have ever had a manager with a profile of being a winner to the extent that Jose has so the players will easily buy into his philosophy more.
We were concerned about attacking football, bringing youth through etc there was more limitations for the manager to jump through and be a success. Managers at this club have too much say over transfer therefore often make poor choices regarding recruitment. So though Spurs don't have wads of cash, they do have a better structure in the hierarchy compared to us using a DOF, therefore transfer have to be more conservative and carefully set in motion.
I'm unsure if they can win the league it's too early in the season but I do reckon they have a chance at silverware this season.
We were concerned about attacking football, bringing youth through etc there was more limitations for the manager to jump through and be a success. Managers at this club have too much say over transfer therefore often make poor choices regarding recruitment. So though Spurs don't have wads of cash, they do have a better structure in the hierarchy compared to us using a DOF, therefore transfer have to be more conservative and carefully set in motion.
I'm unsure if they can win the league it's too early in the season but I do reckon they have a chance at silverware this season.
There's no "wow" about it. Many neutral football fans would say there's a strong case.
Kane is a wonderful player. Best in the world? Behave yourself. In reality, he’s been at this level for about ten matches.
The last title challenge from Spurs ended not only with them losing out to Leicester but finishing third in a two horse race behind Arsenal. That’s some heritage for Jose to contend with because it is the Spurs way.
Apart from that they’re very capable of winning it this year and I’ll be happy for Mourinho if they do. We don’t have to worry about him making our club look stupid. We are a stupid club run by stupid people who let him be our manager while living in a hotel away from his family.
Apart from that they’re very capable of winning it this year and I’ll be happy for Mourinho if they do. We don’t have to worry about him making our club look stupid. We are a stupid club run by stupid people who let him be our manager while living in a hotel away from his family.
I don't think I've ever read so much rubbish in one paragraph.
De Bruyne was better than all his competition bar Hazard and Mata. Yes even then he was better than Oscar, Willian and certainly Schurrle (we were playing a fluid 3 behind the striker).
Salah and Hazard play on opposite flanks, you may aswell say "will any coach play Salah over Courtois".
You go on about our owner supposedly being ruthless when Levy is hardly known for his patience is he? Juande Ramos fired 8 games into a season when he delievered silverware for you the previous season, Redknapp sacked despite a top four finish, Pochettino sacked despite a CL final appearance months before and four consecutive top 4 finishes against clubs with bigger budgets, you think all off a sudden he will start being lenient on Jose? He hasn't appointed Mourinho and then gone onto back him more than any other previous manager only for him to match what Redknapp/Poch (top four) or Ramos (one league cup) did.
This might be very well the problem for United at the moment. Hope the board realises it soon and changes its course.
You miss my point. Im not saying its undesevered, im saying one exceptional player is being held up as carrying his side since everything and goes through him is above Ole but Kane is having an even bigger impact at Spurs yet that is being framed as the manager getting the best out of him.
Its not that hard to conprehend. Ive said it about 3 times now.
Yes, Poch had the same players, but they were playing with a completely different ability level back in 2015-16.
-----------------------------Lloris-----------------------------
Walker--Alderweireld--Vertonghen--Rose
--------------------Dier--------------Dembele--------------------
Eriksen------------------Ali------------------Son
----------------------------Kane----------------------------
with the likes of Trippier, Davies, Wanyama, Lamela on the bench
It shits on this current squad
- Debut season for Alderweireld after a miserable time at Atletico.
- Debut season for Alli coming from MK dons.
- Debut season for Son coming in from Neverkusen.
- Kane had just finished his breakthrough season. Lot's of question marks over his ability back then - Can he do it again? Is he a one season wonder? etc.
- Players like Lloris, Walker, Verts, Dembele, Lamela and Eriksen had been there for a few years before 2015 (and even Poch) and hadn't shown the level which they went on to show later on.
Nothing to do with my point so... Ok?