You sink so?
Jose Mourinho | Spurs manager
- Thread starter roonster09
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Bold part is one part of the answer and other part is 'hope'. Everyone will look for positives when something is changed, even more so when it's a big managerial change.
Rubbish. It is the same when we played against Juve. Some posters( not me) were delighted that Cristiano is coming back at OT but nobody wanted him to score or win the game( in a worst case maybe some wanted him to score goal for 4-1 like RVP did with Fener).
Every football fan has some player or coach who he likes but club will always come first. If not, he is not a fan. Simple
I think so as long as Jose gets the backing he wants he will win trophies. Although I think there there is going to come to a point where Jose and Levy don't see eye to eye on the amount of money that needs to be invested in the squad. If this does happen they will have to come to a compromise, which is something I feel unlikely to happen, as both seem to be strong characters who will stick to what they think is right. Hence why I see Mourinho winning them a trophy but in the end I think Jose will have a big falling out with Levy and eventually getting sacked.
Everyone knows what Levy and Mou are like. Levy is as astute as they come. I can't see there being anyway Levy has said to Mou that he has an open cheque book. The only way I could see Mou being given the role was if it was explained to him exactly the amount of money he will be given. Obviously more if they qualify for the CL.
You make a good point in bold. I think Levy is shrewd enough to see how bad the situation can become with Jose if he doesn't get what he wants. So it would make sense for him to work out a set budget so that in 2-3 years time they don't start disagreeing and the situation becomes out of hand.
Is this a serious post? United are facing a rebuild (so are Tottenham no matter how many times you say Eriksen has been replaced by a loanee) but it’s not because we might lose Lee Grant and fecking Fosu Mensah.
Out of the list of our players with 1 year deals, only Young and Matic would need replacing, and with Brandon Williams we might have replaced Young anyway. As for strikers you’re in the same boat as us, if Kane gets injured you have to either play a youth player (parrott?) or move son or Moura up there.Maybe for you it's not true, but there are too many people on our fanbase that would love Tottenham being more successful than us because of Mourinho. Not sure about how many there are in this forum, but I've seen enough on social media to know that is the case.
Club that is geared for failing. Couldn't sell the players he wanted to, undermined by the ceo, poor player culture.
I understand that you'd want to side against mourinho in these matters, but the bottom line is that the culture and management of United as a club these days stacks the deck against any manager.
I will admit that I like Jose. I thought he should have taken over after SAF retired (I think he had already agreed to go back to Chelsea) as he would of been able to go into our changing room and have the respect of the players already there. I was also happy when he took over in 2016 and he has been by far the best manager we have had since SAF left.
However I fully hope we hammer Spurs when we play them (Dec 4th?) and whilst I think he will do at Spurs I certainly don't want to see him do that at the expense of United. Anyone who does isn't a fan of United.
However I fully hope we hammer Spurs when we play them (Dec 4th?) and whilst I think he will do at Spurs I certainly don't want to see him do that at the expense of United. Anyone who does isn't a fan of United.
What do you find so funnny?
That you think that if they agree on a budget now, they won't start disagreeing in 2-3 years time. As if long term planning doesn't exist in any other clubs. Mint.
So do you think that if they were to agree to a set budget now, in 'x' amount of time Levy will say to Jose he isn't getting what he promised him or that Jose will say he needs 'x' amount of the agreed budget to take Spurs to the next level?
Christ.You honestly think we didn't sit down with Jose and his team to determine long term plans for the squad, and that right now everyone at the club has read your post and goes "Ah, why the feck didn't we think of this, agree a long term budget and there's not going to be any issues". Jesus mate, you've fecking revolutionized the way of thinking. We spent almost £200mill on players that Mourinho wanted to replace within 1,5 season.....
Don't understand what you mean by I've "revolutionised the way of thinking". Do you mean that Jose is going to buy a load of players and when they turn out sh!te he is going to say feck the budget we agreed upon. I want more players as the ones I requested are not up to to scratch. Please explain I am a bit confused?
You honestly think we didn't sit down with Jose and his team to determine long term plans for the squad, and that right now everyone at the club has read your post and goes "Ah, why the feck didn't we think of this, agree a long term budget and there's not going to be any issues". Jesus mate, you've fecking revolutionized the way of thinking. We spent almost £200mill on players that Mourinho wanted to replace within 1,5 season.....
Ofcourse he is.
Interesting how he wins when he's got decent players
When you say we are you including yourself in that? Were you part of that team? If not how do you know what was/wasn’t agreed? I get that you have an opinion but to laugh at others peoples opinions just because they are different to your own......
You honestly think we didn't sit down with Jose and his team to determine long term plans for the squad, and that right now everyone at the club has read your post and goes "Ah, why the feck didn't we think of this, agree a long term budget and there's not going to be any issues". Jesus mate, you've fecking revolutionized the way of thinking. We spent almost £200mill on players that Mourinho wanted to replace within 1,5 season.....
Poor excuses to be honest.
If he is successful with spurs whilst you languish in midtable, it will look like much less of an excuse
Agreed, which wont happen. Ill eat my words if it does.
It has nothing to do with having different opinions and everything to do with what the opinion is.Yeah or it might have to do with players of their quality will cost both arms and legs to replace and to be fair Levy hasn't really been known to splash the cash.I can only assume you think we have a 6-man squad, then.
Net spend shows the relative value of the quality of players added/lost from a squad. It's not that difficult to understand unless your a person you doesn't appreciate context.
It has nothing to do with credit. It's about assessing the relative value of what lost and gained in the squad due to transfers. Simple as. Would a business only analyze revenues without looking at losses?
It's really simple stuff.
You have used net spend as a tool to show that Mourinho has done a worse job because "he has spent more". This is an irrational way to use net spend when so much of what makes up the net spend is outside of the manager's control.
Sales price negotiations, the success of sales negotiations (e.g. Mourinho clearly wanted to sell Darmian, but negotiations failed), the value of the squad inherited are all outside of the manager's control, so why are you using it as a way to compare performance?
It is called responsibility accounting: manager's should only be held responsible for what they can control. How can you expect Mourinho to lower his net spend to the same as Solskjaer when the players he inherited are worth far less. Mourinho sold Depay and Schneiderlin for a combined £35m, whilst Solskjaer sold Lukaku alone for £70m. He may be doing a bad job footballing-wise, but this is something Woodward will understand.
You have also not taken into account prize money, mentioned by another poster, that has come as a result of those signings. This would also need to be netted off against the purchases as it is the main purpose of investment: winning trophies, getting higher up the table, getting in the Champion's League etc. and, as a result, getting a larger amount of prize money. £40m was gained from winning the Europa League alone, which was as a result of the investment in players.
Mourinho spent £151m gross in his first summer. He was able to sell Schneiderlin and Depay for £35m combined. Net spend is £116m
Solskjaer spent £145m gross in his first summer. He was able to sell Lukaku for £70m. Net spend is £75m.
There is very little difference between their gross figures. The only reason Solskjaer's net is so low is that he had such a valuable player to sell which he inherited from the past squad. Mourinho had no such player to sell. Essentially, you are saying that the manager's performance should be judged on events that happened before he was the manager. This is why it is nonsensical.
Net spend with prize money for Mourinho: £151m - £35m (Depay and Schneiderlin) - £30m (Sixth place league money) - £1.8m (League Cup winner) - £26m (Champions League entry for Manchester United) - £40m (Europa League Winner total) = £18m. Suddenly, his net spend is lower than Solskjaer based on his return.
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Can see us getting hammered by Spurs and Ole getting sacked off the back of it.
Can see this place going into meltdown when Ole starts with 3 at the back again against them
We won't start 3 at the back against Spurs. It'll be an interesting battle though. Jose will know how dangerous we are if we're given space. He'll probably let us have the ball for most of the match and hit us on the break.
If we get the first goal though I think we can win.
If we get the first goal though I think we can win.
I am not doubting you know people who say what they say, but let's get facts straight: people who would put Mou's success at Spurs over that of United's, have zero business calling themselves United fans. That is just how it is. Klopp is 10x the coach that Mou is, right now, and a Klopp is a super nice person, but there isn't a *single* United fan who is cheering for Liverpool! That would be nuts. Club comes first when it comes to football.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth. I never said he did worse. However, I did say that he won more than LVG while spending more. That's merely adding context that you and @Regulus Arcturus Black are so quick to dismiss. Then I followed it by saying is why is surprising JM spent more and won? Try actually reading what was said next time.
So managers don't determine the players they want to keep and sell? Surely you don't believe this. Again nobody is expecting to him to spend a certain amount relative to another manager, but it gives us a rough gauge of the net amount of quality (in terms of player value) added/lost in a squad. This is not a difficult concept to understand.
And why the hell should I take into account prize money when assessing the relative value of what the squad gained and lost? Not sure how else to further explain what net spend is an indicator of.
It's nonsensical b/c you can't seem to grasp the concept of gains and losses in terms of a squad.
- Solskjaer lost a player (Lukaku) worth roughly £70m
- Solskjaer added players worth roughly £145m
- Mourinho lost players worth roughly £35m (Schneiderlin and Depay).
... and so on. It shouldn't be difficult to understand.
He's spent more than any manager ever - £1.6bn.
Ever since the glazers took over ive learnt so much about accounting.
I don’t think we have fell for it, what else can we do? He’s a winner you can’t deny that, untill he starts to implode Spurs fans will support him and rightly so, were hardly gonna start chanting Jose out. I’m pretty sure most Spurs fans know this could easily go tits up.
Yep. It is what it is, so we might as well try and enjoy the ride.
And who knows, if Mourinho does now feel refreshed after his break, and if he's genuinely returned with some new ideas and has learned from some past mistakes, then maybe, just maybe, there could just be some peculiar chemistry that a combo of Spurs and Mourinho sparks into lift-off.
Plus even if he hasn't learned a jot, it's not like his all his recent jobs were completely negative. He was never the right fit for United but at Chelsea he did win the league prior to his meltdown. A meltdown they were able to quickly recover from to win another title under a different manager.
If the chemistry and circumstances are right then even the same old, flawed Mourinho can be a success.
He is a winner but that also adds to the pressure.
The way he operates means you have to win one of the big ones under him or else appointing him was next to pointless. Since returning to Chelsea and selling KDB/Salah and replacing them with ready made players for a quick title he well and truly laid his colours to the mask, he's for the here and now, he won't be building with the medium future in mind let alone a long term which means no grey area, unlike with Pochettino there can't be any "he lost but....".
For the rebuilding job he will leave and what you may lose (hasn't your promising young striker already hinted he sees his future elsewhere?) the only way you can truly justify it is with atleast one league or CL, case in point take the league title out of his second spell with us it would have probably been seen as the biggest flop of Romans manager tenures given the players we lost and where he left us.
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We will have to simply wait and see how things pans out, he had a clean sheet as far as I am concerned for now. If he wins us an FA cup or a Europa league it would be huge for me anyway.
Wonder if they can usurp one of Leicester or Chelsea for a CL spot? If they get in to the Europa then that’s definitely a route they’ll go down for a trophy and qualification.
His quotes are there in the RWC thread, He also had a meltdown after, deservedly so
.And sorry for replying late, I'm a bit busy at the moment.