I think this is a good point, he was employed at United to be competing for the title, he hasn't been employed for that reason with us.
Jose Mourinho | Spurs manager
- Thread starter roonster09
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Indeed. It really needs to be a "new" Mourinho to accept not having pressure to win the league title for the first time in his career. This can be beneficial for both Spurs & Jose because it could be a beginning of a manager reinventing himself and finding the similarities with his career start back at PT, where he had lots of limits (lack of funding, lower quality players, etc)
I'm not sure it's a wish, it's more that it's extremely likely. I can understand you guys being enthusiastic, but you can also understand Utd fans pointing out this is exactly the demeanour he had when he first took on the job here. It's impossible to not be cynical when you read things like "he's a changed man" and "he's learnt from his past mistakes" - I actually like José, but it would be more than a surprise if his career at Spurs didn't go down the same road as it did in his previous appointments.
no I don’t think so. If we were talking about PL and CL then yes. but not a league cup or FA Cup.
I’m not adverse to a short term expensive fix like RVP. But all those players are solid professionals, nothing more, they aren’t top players. They liability we would have with their contracts would be astonishing.
Yeah I can raise my hands and say i was wrong on this one... if Mctominay really does become something good here. Right now I don't actually see what's so special but if he becomes a good player Jose should get credit as much as LVG should have golden credit for Rashford.
I am under no illusions that he is playing nice and deep-down in there the old Jose still exists and its far too soon to tell if he has truly changed. I'm just saying that I have no other option to go with it and enjoy the ride, I'm certainly enjoying the football and learning about him. Did he coach much at United or was it mostly his team that took the sessions?
Like I said before he is a very intoxicating man.
While I totally understand the first half of your sentence, I think you're being a bit naive about the second part. There's really nothing new to learn about the man. There's nothing that he's doing now that is fundamentally different to his usual MO, this "new José" is just PR spin.
And yes, he is an infectious character. Which makes the ultimate fall so much more annoying.
I meant about the appointment of his new assistant who seems to have a much different look than his previous one. Also the apparent link to the DOF in Napoli who seems to want to come on board. Trust me I know he's playing the media for his own self image, which of course he is very good at.
I believe Rui Faria handled training during his first 2 seasons. Not sure who it was after Faria left. Maybe McKenna or Carrick.
That's one reading of it, or a better reading might be that they backed the manager fully in his first two windows, yet he had publicly fallen out with the club record signing he wanted (Pogba), the swap for Sanchez which Jose was fully on board with after being done with Mkhitaryan looked like garbage, he seemed to want to bin the two CBs he did sign for another, older one like Toby, and swap Martial out for old ass Willian.
Is there any coherent logic to the manager's thinking at this point? Would you feel comfortable continuing to back him absolutely under such circumstances? I wouldn't.
There isn't any other instance of Woodward refusing to deliver on a preferred target of the manager. Now, perhaps, the recruitment structure is actually different than it was under Moyes, LvG, and the first 2 years under Jose as Ed has suggested. That could also be why the club didn't absolutely go with Jose's desires in the market in summer 2018, because they have actually shifted the recruitment structure, which would be a good thing.
Honestly there is nothing that you can do other than accept it if/when it happens. Enjoy the positives and don't think about things that haven't happen yet.
That's the train I am on.
He's the difference between losing 4 pts to Sheffield and Villa, and winning all points against Spurs, City and Brighton. He also contributed to the wins against Chelsea, Norwich and drew against Liverpool. Only game lost with him in the squad in EPL in the last games? Bournemouth away.
We need him to secure the defensive side while we go for the goals.
Probably more, actually.
Rashford came through as a result of LVG's general policy (use kids for backup), not as a result of promoting him and giving him minutes because he saw something special in him. It was the particular injury situation at the time which gave Rashford his debut.
We can debate precisely why Jose singled out McTominay (his harshest critics will probably say it was simply because he was tall) - but he wasn't given his initial chance because of an injury crisis.
As per the original point though, I am purely contesting the "fully backed" statement, and qualified that backing him fully may not have been sensible.
So far though, I am only really seeing people accepting that he wasn't actually backed, and discussing whether that was a merited decision or not.
It seems that, under Ed/Glaziers, a lot of managers have now suffered and most of them (SAF included) have been top managers who have scraped a trophy despite difficult upper management. As much as people on the cafe want to use managers as scapegoats, I think it's clear that the issue is higher than that - the whole DoF recruitment debacle highlights it further.
We may end up in this thread 3 years from now with the same people still saying "any day now he'll crack; he hasn't changed. Any day..."
Hmm... I'm not sure that you know what a straw man is? I get it's probably an excuse though, as you seem like a pretty argumentative poster.
Yep, brilliant football he played at OT a week ago.
I know what a strawman is and your post is the obvious example of it.
Wow on forums posters argue? fecking hell.
Here we go then
Care to point out where I was somehow misrepresenting someone else's argument?
isn’t it obvious which part is misrepresented when it’s highlighted in bold?Here we go then
Care to point out where I was somehow misrepresenting someone else's argument?
No - because it was a statement expanding on my own, original, point
Seriously, if you're not a troll, have a read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manMeanwhile, I'll waste no more of my limited posts and add you to the ignore list.
The way life works is that more than one party can be at fault for something. Jose was actually backed, but had that pulled when he was falling out with everybody in the squad, and wanted the board to approve completely illogical moves.
If you want to keep pretending the board somehow never backed him, because they finally got sick of his bullshit, cool.
Moyes and LvG were backed by the board completely on their targets. The issue was most of their targets sucked and/or didn't address major deficiencies in the squad. The other issue, which I acknowledged, is that due to the lack of a recruitment structure/DOF the manager was solely responsible for setting transfer targets, which led to haphazard construction of the squad with players who didn't fit any cohesive vision.
Whether that will continue or not I don't know. The recruitment this summer and players that have been or will be moved out seem to indicate there actually is a clear vision as to what we're attempting to do. Maybe it's another "false dawn". I can't say for sure. Either way Jose was a complete failure at United which he and many others can try to pawn off on the board, or Woodward, or the Glazers, or any number of things, but a lion's share falls on his own shoulders.
No - because it was a statement expanding on my own, original, point
Meanwhile, I'll waste no more of my limited posts and add you to the ignore list.
Fits both points like a glove.
We aren't talking about prime Messi here. We were dropping points before he got injured and if I had to at gunpoint, would bet we continue dropping more even with him back. Martial's injury was also cited as the reason we were losing at some point. The next injury is always cited as the reason for any loss/draw
Maybe judge us when everyone is fit then?
I don't think it's about scoring, so not really about Messi. More about needing someone to cover for the half spaces behind the full backs when the opposition is trying to pull them out of position, and Fred is supposed to do it on one side, Scott on the other. Looks like Pereira is less used to that state of mind and let the opposition play more, etc...
The offensive side is different but when it works, we score and we don't concede, basically.
Like at the start of the season before the injuries? I referenced it too
Honeymoon period is overjust kidding
Why? Munich with a first team line up, Spurs with a team with 2 youth players and resting 4-5 first team players.... laughable post, it’s a rubber duck game.
To get the Spurs fans/Jose fanboys wound up of course. White text as well
I doubt the expectations at Spurs are for him to win the league, and we've never really known a Mourinho who's first job isn't to win as many games as possible. It would be very interesting to see if he takes this flexibility to actually build a team over time, because all said and done he does have an eye for a good player and has the charisma to motivate a squad.
The football today could have been better against Bayern, but it's understandable given the number of first teamers rested.
The football today could have been better against Bayern, but it's understandable given the number of first teamers rested.
No manager will be 100% backed and hence I said heavily instead of fully. Not signing Perisic and Willian was a good desicion back then as well.
You're probably right. For it to be "his team" he needed 11 new players.
Ha sorry mate missed that white, my bad.To get the Spurs fans/Jose fanboys wound up of course. White text as well
Jesus Christ just wait a few months or until he's won a couple of trophies for Spurs before you going all Mourinho sycophant on a United board. We're clearly more atuned to what happened at United than most outsiders FFS.
His job is to win the league and a cup now. Pochettino laid a great foundation. It is not like Mourinho is taking over what Pochettino took over when he arrived from Southampton. Plus, I m positive that Levy will start spending big now, so there is no excuse if under 5 years, Spurs doesn’t win something big. A team that got in the finals of the champions league has the mentality and talent now to take it to another level. IfPochettino was still there, they would have done that if he was backed further. If they go backwards from here, only one to blame is levy and Mourinho.
To be honest I don't know why Levy doesn't get any recognition - I'd say he has been great at putting down some foundations down at Spurs aswell and it definitely wasn't just a mangers decisions only.
It was worse.
@InLevyITrust recognises that, while it’s fun right now, it’s likely to all go horribly pear shaped at some point in the future. Many United fans were either in denial of recent events at Chelsea (and Madrid) or believed Jose to be the wronged party. There was also a belief that United was Jose’s spiritual home, that he was destined to manage us and that he’d stay for years.
There was a small but vocal minority of outright Jose “haters” as well. My position was a slightly more sceptical version of the OP’s.
Deja vu.
That's the thing. All this happened with us initially too. Remember the series of 4-0 wins during the start of his second season? Soon he will lay his imprint on the squad, serve shit on stick football against any semi decent opponent and the players will stop buying into his philosophy and you know the rest.