Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?

[VorZakone]

For some reason I find it funny how people warned against appointing Mourinho because of a potential meltdown in his 3rd season, and that's exactly what happened.

But yeah, he was right about certain things.

 

[Jezpeza]

He had three years to take care of it. He was happy with Valencia/Young at RB.

Yeah but: darmian young valencia rojo smalling jones mata hererra pereira were all shit and not really good enough before jose arrived.

However i acknowledge a lot of joses signings were also poor.

I think the wider issue is we have at the current time a patchwork squad full of the players of 4 previous managers. I feel Without a technical director or clear vision from the boardroom this wont change. Hate seeing us linked with the likes of alderweireld, just another one who wont take us anywhere and we’ll be trying to get rid of in 2 years. The issue with any new signings we get is most of the squad needs selling. Would like to see us ship out all the obvious ones and sign younger players, and the same for the next couple of summers to really build a long term squad. Sadly i dont see us being near the top any time soon - we need to think about where we want to be in next 5 years not talking about how we can get in title contention in one window. We cant.

 

[hn4manunited]

No, it's not a sackable offence, but it's not something I'd bust out my tissues and lube over either, like you guys.

It's second.

Wow. The sense of entitlement is strong with this one. Finishing second is not an easy task especially with the current squad. You have to have context when you’re sneering at a second place finish.

For those who say 2nd is a fluke, the saying that the table doesn’t lie, it doesn’t lie over a course of 38 games.

 

[Casanova85]

For some reason I find it funny how people warned against appointing Mourinho because of a potential meltdown in his 3rd season, and that's exactly what happened.

But yeah, he was right about certain things.

About Pogba's attitude and personality.
About Martial being overrated-slow-indifferent.
About our crap CBs.

He was right, and at the same time, exactly the worst kind of person to solve the situation, as late 2018 proved.

 

[hn4manunited]

Barca have signed great players like Vermaleen, Maduro, Kevin Prince Boateng and Paulinho recently.

So, you’re saying that even clubs like barcelona with their superb hierarchy can make mistakes and are willing to back their managers to go out and buy more players?

 

[kouroux]

Considering the squad he has had to work with, finishing second in an ugly way was probably the only way to get there. The early part of the season wasn’t ugly entirely though

Until that Anfield game where we chickened out, it really looked we were gonna compete for the title

 

[Keeps It tidy]

So, you’re saying that even clubs like barcelona with their superb hierarchy can make mistakes and are willing to back their managers to go out and buy more players?

Managers do not buy players at Barca.

 

[hn4manunited]

So Woodward had forced them onto Mourinho?
Any success is thanks to Mourinho. Any failure is failure of board. Got it.

I realized I missed a crucial detail in my posting. I meant to these are not the profile of center halves he would buy for immediate first 11. These are young signings for the future.

 

[hn4manunited]

What signings do you think Mourinho was responsible for?

I realized I missed a crucial detail in my posting. I meant to these are not the profile of center halves he would buy for immediate first 11. These are young signings for the future.

 

[hn4manunited]

None apparently.

Mourinho had scouted Lindelof for a year and I think he even went to a match to watch him. I highly doubt the club forced Bailly on Mourinho. Next he’s going to say Jose didn’t want Pogba despite wanting him and Griezmann at Chelsea.

I realized I missed a crucial detail in my posting. I meant to these are not the profile of center halves he would buy for immediate first 11. These are young signings for the future.

 

[hn4manunited]

He had three years to take care of it. He was happy with Valencia/Young at RB.

Within the confines and restrictions of what he’s working with, those are the players he’s had to work with.

 

[redshaw]

Perisic would probably need replacing now but we were after him two seasons ago if I recall. I do believe he would've done better than some of the crap we have as would Willian.

Trouble with Jose is he didn't bless us with good signings mostly. He was right about a lot but also bought Mkhitaryan, Matic, Bailly, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fred. Pogba is a talented player who Jose couldn't manage. Mkhi brought in then left on the bench forced to adapt then swapped out for an aging player who hasn't gave us a few weeks let alone a few months or one season. We're lucky Ibra is such an athlete we got one season out of him at his age.

Didn't seem to be any attention to the right back but maybe the board said only certain amount of players could be bought.

LVG as well talked well about the issues at a club the size of United but went on to buy Bastian Schweinsteiger an injured overweight slow player on huge wages. Rojo and Darmian to name a few.

It's quite shocking when you run down how much we've spent and shipped out and the players who we didn't sign or even look at. Fellaini to Fred, it's a horror show.

 

[hn4manunited]

Managers do not buy players at Barca.

Just like what we’re saying here that Mourinho may not be the one buying players.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Just like what we’re saying here that Mourinho may not be the one buying players.

Definitely possible but, people have to be consistent with that thought. Some try to credit Mourinho for the good signings and say the bad signings were forced on him.

 

[LJJT]

In great hindsight I’m starting to believe all previous managers where right.

Moyes- inherited a title winning team but it was old and needed refreshing. We had some bright shoots in januzai and some negatives but he got sacked cos we didn’t get top 4 which Lvg, mourinho and now ole failed to deliver

LVG- to be honest my favourite post Fergie manager. We where 2 years in to his 3 year process and whilst the football was boring we competed and I think he planned to leave us in a better position for when he left

Mourinho- fairly decent first 18 months. He lost all care for us once we didn’t invest another £100m to replace his two failed centre backs. Actually think him finishing 2nd was a great achievement with this team but he was poisonous and knew the job was not only beyond him but any one without a billion pound war chest

 

[mu4c_20le]

Mourinho- fairly decent first 18 months. He lost all care for us once we didn’t invest another £100m to replace his two failed centre backs. Actually think him finishing 2nd was a great achievement with this team but he was poisonous and knew the job was not only beyond him but any one without a billion pound war chest

You know what.. on paper it looks good finishing 2nd, but I remember not caring about it too much last year, not because we were so far off the top, but because our competitors were fecking Spurs. Both chelsea and arsenal had horrible seasons and pool were still getting used to the gegen football or whatever. We scored the least goals in the top 4 and even arsenal scored more and they finished 6th.

 

[spiriticon]

Wow. The sense of entitlement is strong with this one. Finishing second is not an easy task especially with the current squad. You have to have context when you’re sneering at a second place finish.

For those who say 2nd is a fluke, the saying that the table doesn’t lie, it doesn’t lie over a course of 38 games.

I merely judge the man by how he judges others. Second place is a failure, by his own words.

 

[hn4manunited]

I merely judge the man by how he judges others. Second place is a failure, by his own words.

If I remember what he said correctly, he said it was his greatest achievement to finish second with this group. He didn’t say finishing second is a great achievement.

Edit: there is a subtle difference between those two.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

You should be done here. There is no reason to still be defending Mourinho at this point. He failed here and should have been sacked sooner end of.

I think his point is, no matter what you think of Mourinho, if he was given funds he would have replaced Young.

 

[Bojan11]

I think his point is, no matter what you think of Mourinho, if he was given funds he would have replaced Young.

Like he replaced Ivanovic.

That guy was near the end but Jose kept playing him for some reason.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I think his point is, no matter what you think of Mourinho, if he was given funds he would have replaced Young.

If he was not happy with his performances he would have said something like he did with Shaw.Heck the fact that he dropped Shaw for him in the first place shows the faith he had in Young.

 

[Cassidy]

I think his point is, no matter what you think of Mourinho, if he was given funds he would have replaced Young.

Except he wouldn't have, he has form for not replacing ageing fullbacks. He even said last summer that Young was important and RB never ever seemed high on his agenda whilst at United.

 

[Sterling Archer]

About Pogba's attitude and personality.
About Martial being overrated-slow-indifferent.
About our crap CBs.

He was right, and at the same time, exactly the worst kind of person to solve the situation, as late 2018 proved.

That's exactly what I was thinking when he left and Ole had the team go on that winning run. But slowly and surely I'm rethinking that. It took Jose a good 2 years of dealing with this batch and Woodward before the spiral really started. And with Ole , here we are a few months in hearing versions of the same things that Jose echoed - players not driven, not committed, eyes elsewhere, professionalism, and just plain not good enough...

The main difference is Ole is in the fortunate position of being able to see many of these contracts wind out or players go and maybe a slightly more receptive Ed...but that's to be seen if that a hole will cede enough control to the manager

 

[Casanova85]

That's exactly what I was thinking when he left and Ole had the team go on that winning run. But slowly and surely I'm rethinking that. It took Jose a good 2 years of dealing with this batch and Woodward before the spiral really started. And with Ole , here we are a few months in hearing versions of the same things that Jose echoed - players not driven, not committed, eyes elsewhere, professionalism, and just plain not good enough...

The main difference is Ole is in the fortunate position of being able to see many of these contracts wind out or players go and maybe a slightly more receptive Ed...but that's to be seen if that a hole will cede enough control to the manager

No other option left for him.

 

[AOAARON]

Of course Mourinho was right, but he was also wrong.

Mourinho's a world class manager, limited by the fact that he cannot motivate difficult poisonous personalities. Sure he can try and transform them into great professionals, but if they refuse to leave their ego at the door; he's awful as his initial reaction is to always get rid of them.

That was never an option for Jose with Pogba (the God of Manchester United football club and the most talented player to ever grace a football pitch in some of your fans eyes) and the rest of them.

The truth is that with Jose, his assessment of the squad was wrong but he was hardly blameless. He has struggled to motivate really horrible personalities over his past 2 tenures. For example, at Real Madrid you can clearly see talented players like Ramos pose a problem if you can't keep them on side.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that your squad's general personality is lightyears away from the Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo days. Its going to take time to get rid of them. Or you can just do it the Chelsea [and Manchester United] way and keep firing the manager until the patients can be bothered to play.

 

[Cassidy]

That's exactly what I was thinking when he left and Ole had the team go on that winning run. But slowly and surely I'm rethinking that. It took Jose a good 2 years of dealing with this batch and Woodward before the spiral really started. And with Ole , here we are a few months in hearing versions of the same things that Jose echoed - players not driven, not committed, eyes elsewhere, professionalism, and just plain not good enough...

The main difference is Ole is in the fortunate position of being able to see many of these contracts wind out or players go and maybe a slightly more receptive Ed...but that's to be seen if that a hole will cede enough control to the manager

Except since Ole arrived Martial, Jones and Young have signed new deals. At least 2 of those have been a shower of shite for a couple of years before that.

 

[Stubble]

It was highlighted tonight on Match of the Day. Players not tracking back, standing about aimlessly, no runs in behind, not stepping up to help when a teammate is under pressure etc etc - basic stuff expected of any team. Total halfhearted attitude and appalling lack of effort which has been apparent for a run of games now allied to some players just not being good enough for a United side. Manager after manager has failed to motivate or get this group to fight together as a team. It's past blaming the manager now or 'coaching' - a popular excuse on here.
There is obviously an issue in the dressing room and I suspect there are specific players behind this (maybe those who are agitating for a move as reported or are upset because they just can't get by on £200k a week - poor lambs !) - this will not improve until the individuals with bad attitudes are removed from the club regardless of their 'potential' or abilities. We got rid of one bad attitude when Mourinho left but i suspect there are a number more remaining at the club that need to follow him out the door..

 

[Yagami]

I dunno why some overlook the fact that he built this squad when people use the state of said squad as proof that it was the players and not him.

 

[soapythecat]

Even when he was here, many realistic fans knew he was right on many things that was wrong with the club: players, Woodward and structure, but because he was clearly being a dick about things it was difficult to stand by him. His approach to buying ageing players and a stubborn defensive approach was never going to please most of us.
I would never want him to grace our club again, in any capacity, but he will be the smuggest git in world football right now and you have to say he has every right to be.

 

[Kidders]

Mourinho came here at the wrong time, with the wrong attitude, I think he thought he would automatically have everyone's respect from supporters to the board, God knows what he was told about transfer dealings, but it was soon apparent he did'nt always have the final say, one way or another.
Having secured one of the greatest managers of all time (says so through gritted teeth), hindsight says we should have bankrolled him in the transfer market, allowed him to ship out the players he did'nt want, Pogba, Martial, Shaw for example (the same ones people are questioning today) and then truly judge him.
The problem is we will never know if buying Ivan Perisic was the right or wrong thing, because he was'nt 'allowed' to do it, was he considered to be the 'Manager' or the 'Coach', Sir Alex was the Manager, and rightly earned the right to hire and fire, Jose thought he had the same authority as SAF, but of course we all know achieving that level of status took years of blood sweat and tears, in the end Mourinho became a victim of his own ego and found out that once you take a good look inside of this club, you see that's it's turned septic, no longer their to please the fans but to milk them, no longer interested in making history but just to wallow in it.
No one can say Jose is'nt a good manager, but his marriage to United was always doomed because his United 'wife' did'nt stay faithful. But the question is was he right? Well on the balance of things, I'm afraid he probably was.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I dunno why some overlook the fact that he built this squad when people use the state of said squad as proof that it was the players and not him.

ddg, jones, smalling, young, valencia, lingard - still here & fergie holdovers [only one of them still ‘good enough’]

rojo, mata, herrera, shaw, fellaini (half this season) - players signed by prior managers who aren’t good enough yet are still here having contracts renewed.

jose was not right for united but having seen the make up of his squads at other clubs, this wasn’t a jose team.

his biggest issue was wherever he has been previously, if he signed the wrong player he could sign another one to replace it where as here his signings underwhelmed & he was stuck with them. he has to take responsibility for the matic’s & lakaku’s but this ‘squad’ is 4 failed managers worth of dross & hold overs from a successful period.

the players are not good enough, until rectified klopp, pep, poch would fail to get a tune out of ashley young at full back.

 

[kafta]

Jose and United weren't a perfect fit at the end, a big reason being the style of football he wants to play.

However, he got a lot of things right, and at the end of the day, any manager tasked with reviving our corpse of a club will need to be backed by the owners in the market until the club is back to where it should be.

I still don't understand extending his contract only to give him peanuts to spend, after a season where we showed progress but still ended up 20 points behind city.

Another reason we weren't a perfect fit, was because we refused to spend the money we should. This would mean no top manager would be a perfect fit. Pep has done great things at city, but he spent his fair share of money.

 

[Bestietom]

He was certainly right about attitude and commitment. They should hang their heads in shame, these fans are worth much more than this.

 

[cyril C]

He was right about player quality, but he was obviously wrong about his own inability to make any progress after over two years and countless transfers.

Agree. Mourinho was right about the defensive problem and (lacking) work rate of the team, but he himself recruited 1/3 of the 1st team, so Mourinho is part of the problem. His attitude got worse as season progress.

 

[sugar_kane]

I now actually think he was even more right than when I started this thread. He correctly identified that a weak mentality was the issue in our club and it needed ripping out, no matter how painful and no matter which 'talents' (eg. Pogba, Martial) had to go.

Long term he was still wrong for the club because of the style of football he plays and because he only cares about Jose Mourinho (not the fans, our history, or our style of football) but if he had been allowed to do what he wanted in the Summer and given the full season he might have got us top 4 and got the club a little bit more stable for a new manager to take over.

We might have been left with some aging luggers like Perisic, Willian etc, but the mentality of the dressing might have been much stronger.

Instead Woodward backed the dressing room and further cemented the player power which is ripping our club apart.

I hope Ole can deal with eradicating this shitty loser mentality that has seeped into the pores of our club, but I actually think a horrid bastard like Jose might have been the man for the moment.

 

[roonster09]

We might have been left with some aging luggers like Perisic, Willian etc, but the mentality of the dressing might have been much stronger.

How? If anything Perisic has been a dressing room problem at Inter, why would he be a leader or bring some tough mentality in ManUtd dressing room?

We have problems and Jose's solution is to replace them with more problems.

 

[smallred]

The difference with Mourinho is that he had significant input into building this appalling squad then moaned that he wasn't allowed to buy even more dross.

17 of the current squad, were not signed by him. 12 of the squad that togged last sunday, werent his players. so please tell me, can you define "significant input"?

depending on who you believe,

he didnt want pogba and wanted him sold last summer.
he wanted martial sold.
he didnt want to sign fred
he didnt want to sign lukaku
he didnt want to sign sanchez.

matic hasnt been a good signing, Bailly in his first season was excellent.

two of the only good things about the current squad are lindelof and Dalot. he also idiolised Mctominay when many fans were slamming him over it.

real

 

[ForeverRed1]

The proof is in the pudding at the end of the day

 

[Owen06]

Of course Mourinho was right, but he was also wrong.

Mourinho's a world class manager, limited by the fact that he cannot motivate difficult poisonous personalities. Sure he can try and transform them into great professionals, but if they refuse to leave their ego at the door; he's awful as his initial reaction is to always get rid of them.

That was never an option for Jose with Pogba (the God of Manchester United football club and the most talented player to ever grace a football pitch in some of your fans eyes) and the rest of them.

The truth is that with Jose, his assessment of the squad was wrong but he was hardly blameless. He has struggled to motivate really horrible personalities over his past 2 tenures. For example, at Real Madrid you can clearly see talented players like Ramos pose a problem if you can't keep them on side.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that your squad's general personality is lightyears away from the Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo days. Its going to take time to get rid of them. Or you can just do it the Chelsea [and Manchester United] way and keep firing the manager until the patients can be bothered to play.

What the hell are you talking about?
How do you know the players were the problem and not tactics?

Of course,I believe in every nonsense there's a sense,he was right to question the board, right to call out martial for not defending enough and was also right that he knocked us out of the champions league twice, apart from all that he was wrong about the rest.

Mourinho was responsible for the poor performances,its ok to blame individuals when their performance aren't up to scratch but when a whole team under performs it's definitely on the manager.
Mourinho was never really performing to begin with,his first season was poor we finished sixth, second season we had an abysmal second place finish, and his third season was going on a similar route and he decided to moan.

Jose tactics were quite predictable and his football was horrible,I mean the guys plan b is a long ball to fellaini, the opposition regularly had is game plan at the palm of their hands.
He can complain about players but he signed them,lukaku never downed tools he was just horrible and fat,Sanchez was incredibly hard working but was just past it,rashford lingard all ran and ran but were just so easy to play against,matic was among the players the guy said turned on him at Chelsea but he went ahead to sign him didn't he? pogba on the other hand was the one taking all the criticism even before he started calling him a virus,I remember reading a story were Pogba told him his teammates were not available for a pass for most of the time which was all visible for all to see because the team had zero movement, the workrate wasn't high like other teams because we didn't press we sat back and invited pressure it was all tactics and those tactics were Jose's.

Others shouldn't use the recent poor form to vindicate Jose because ole was an interim who was supposed to come and steady ship and besides it's been a long season the players are exhausted from Jose lethargic counter attack approach to ole pressing system, it's hard to sustain in one season,of course not all the players are good enough but with some few changes and proper pre season they'll be fine next season.

 

[haram]

Yes. 100%. No debate.