Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Absolute and utter garbage, hang your head in shame posting such laughable, sensationalist drivel.

A 'terrible manager' who won a European final, a League Cup, F.A Cup runner up and finished 2nd just last season, above Liverpool and Tottenham...

If OGS achieved even half of that you'd be heralding him as a success.

And then using Mourinho to excuse the current manager from any present / future failings. Pathetic stuff.

Mourinho needed to go - he made it so that he had to after he was hung out to dry by Woodward and he lost the dressing room.

But he won trophies here, and he kept us above Liverpool - he is our most successful manager post SAF.

And if Mourinho had received VVD rather than Klopp, we'd be above Liverpool still - albeit playing rubbish football.
Apart from the complete adulation for Mourinho, how about the bit about Ole being heralded a success having done half of what Jose managed?

Poor Mourinho. Killed by the sword of his own greatness. It's really weird how despite being so awesomazing, he left us in tatters with everyone moaning about everything.
All hail Mourinho the champion of our second place finish!
Yeah, not quite.

What I've stated is what Mourinho actually achieved, I've also stated that he needed to go, and played rubbish football...

Take a step back and try to understand that not everything is binary, and not everyone who holds slightly different opinion to yourselves is worthy of mockery and rudeness - in doing so, you're showing yourselves up.

I respect Mourinho as a manager for what he's tangibly achieved, same as any other manager - I don't subscribe to tabloid-esque opinions on managers, good or bad, because in reality, I don't care about personalities...

I don't care that Mourinho was the big bad wolf, just as I don't care in the slightest that Olé is a 'nice guy', or even a club legend, I couldn't give a feck in fact.

All I care about, is the best for Manchester United, and that's it.

Mourinho is our most successful manager post-SAF, that is the reality - stating so isn't showing favour to him. And he also took over a flat, lost dressing room and had to implement his own footy after LvG.

My opinion, unpopular as it is, is that Ole will do very well to replicate Mourinho's first 2 seasons here.

The danger is his popularity vs his managerial abilities. Because I assure you right now, he will not be judged to the same standard as Mourinho was / is - in fact some 'fans' are already excusing his failings before they've happened.

All I'm calling for is consistency and fairness in how we judge our managers and what we demand for Man Utd.
 

Schneckerl

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
2,704
We came second last season with these players minus £75 million or so in players that we signed with Mourinho as manager.
3rd in points since Ole took over and Liverpool is a lot better than last season.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,518
Christ, imagine being stuck with a bang average, deteriorating player on mega money. We have enough of those. Thank feck that tosser Mourinho is gone so we don’t have to be linked with shite like Perisic and Willian.
Exactly. And to think we have Kose fans who still think Perisic would have been great signing is just hilarious. They even have benefit of hindsight seeing how poor he was since 2017 season.
 

Regalia

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
443
Of course he was right. Toxic as he is, Mourinho did not become a world class manager by being stupid.

If he was given free rein to get the players he wanted, and play the way he wanted (no trying to forcefully shoehorn some 'United way' bullshit into the system), we might be winning ugly now, but we would definitely be winning. Unfortunately, prima donna players and a doofus of a CEO got in the way, Mourinho lost it, and the rest is history.

Now we have to suffer another 2-3 years of mediocrity while hoping Ole can sort things out with Ed the Clown playing FM over his head. If anything, I'll put money on Ole not getting everything he needs and we'll be discussing who the new manager should be in oh...12 months from now. The club is rotten from the top down. You can't fix that by firing and hiring new managers and players willy-nilly every 2 years.
 

12OunceEpilogue

In perfect harmony
Scout
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
18,392
Location
Wigan
Majority of he signing made under Jose were 25 or younger. There isn't anything wrong having a mix of signing younger and older players. Jose doesn't care about the age, it's the mentality that bothers him, which is why he gave Scott chances.
Don't get me wrong, I was never in the 'Jose only signs pensioners' bandwagon but if we got Perisic, Willian and Alderweireld that's three more 30+ players who would have had limited time at the top level and little to no resale value. I appreciate the need to have a blend of potential and experience in your squad but I was underwhelmed with the prospect of making those signings together, and I'm glad we didn't do it.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,505
Someone explain it to me.
- Best shot stopper in the world having a great season.
- Individual quality in the squad actually better than some think, several players capable of producing match winning moments on their day.
- Opposition not all that, inconsistent and lacking somewhat in key areas.

The only genuinely top class team in the league absolutely walked it (whilst being nowhere good enough in Europe, for comparison and an indication of their true level).

Not that hard to explain. And the explanation certainly is not that Jose Mourinho did an amazing job drilling a bunch of seriously sub-par players into a tight unit. Anyone with eyes could see we weren't the latter.
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
13,888
Lingard and Willian are nothing alike. Willian is strong in transition which is why he would be useful in this team. Lingard is a number 10 anyway.
He is very like Lingard. Strong in transition? His decision making is shocking for transitioning.
Proper quality is Mane, Salah, Sane, Silva etc not fecking Willian.
 

doriandun

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
169
I can't believe someone actually said we should have bought Perisic and Willian. This is truly the end of days.
By buying Perisic and Willian, it takes the weight of Martial and Rashford, also youngster coming into the squad, it also provides Pogba with the width he needs to make use of his long range passess as the two have better of the ball movement than Martial and Rashford, know when and how to hug the touchline or make runs inside, those two players are also better crossers of the ball, who would also provide Lukaku with chances, and take the ball to the by line, and not forgetting contribute with goals, and i almost forgot they are able to get up and down the pitch, and if the fullbacks over lapped them, they are more than happy and competent to cover for them.

Also if the team goes down to 10 men, the team can still keep their shape, without having to scarifice a flair player.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,518
- Best shot stopper in the world having a great season.
- Individual quality in the squad actually better than some think, several players capable of producing match winning moments on their day.
- Opposition not all that, inconsistent and lacking somewhat in key areas.

The only genuinely top class team in the league absolutely walked it (whilst being nowhere good enough in Europe, for comparison and an indication of their true level).

Not that hard to explain. And the explanation certainly is not that Jose Mourinho did an amazing job drilling a bunch of seriously sub-par players into a tight unit. Anyone with eyes could see we weren't the latter.
Exactly.
 

Kag

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
18,875
Location
United Kingdom
Mourinho is, pound for pound, the worst, most destructive manager this club has ever had.

He wanted better players? Well, fecking never. So does everybody on this forum. That doesn’t mean to say we should be in charge of the football team.

Mourinho bought and benched just about every player he bought. He bought, more or less, an entire first eleven. The players he wanted to buy would have been terrible purchases. The exact sort of purchases the board has been vilified for making in the past.

Even in spite of the good footballers we already have at the club (and we do have good footballers here), he thought it appropriate to cede possession and control to teams like Brighton and Huddersfield. These being conscious tactical decisions, by the way.

When you reflect back on his tenure it borders on inconceivable just how bad he managed to do here.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
He is very like Lingard. Strong in transition? His decision making is shocking for transitioning.
Proper quality is Mane, Salah, Sane, Silva etc not fecking Willian.
It’s weird. Most Chelsea fans can’t wait to see the back of him yet some utter mentalists on here are obsessed with him :houllier:
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,518
It’s weird. Most Chelsea fans can’t wait to see the back of him yet some utter mentalists on here are obsessed with him :houllier:
And inter fans can't wait to see the back of Perisic.
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
13,888
It’s weird. Most Chelsea fans can’t wait to see the back of him yet some utter mentalists on here are obsessed with him :houllier:
Yep. Chelsea fans have wanted him (and Pedro) dropped for ages in favour of the likes of CHO etc. Haram will probably say he will have thrived under the management of Mourinho but we already bought one of his former players from the same club (matic) and half of the fans wants him replaced already. He will have only proceeded to add more dross on top of the dross he already left behind.
 
Last edited:

Ibrahimorich

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
654
No, they were. Everything shit was joses fault and once he was gone everything would be merry. Even now they cant admit they were wrong and place the blame where it needs to be placed. Im not even 100% sure his signings were his. He seemed to buy players and then not use them, or struggle to fit them in to what he wanted to do.

Player power has fecked this club, and its looking to do it again. Marketing is all woodward cares about. If he gave a shit about the football he would have backed jose after getting 2nd. Instead, we got that shit.
People may have said this but as time ran on under Mourinho, and indeed in any bad times situation, people tend to become more hyperbolic as they look for the "one solution". I think on reflection most would agree with me.

On the flip side, everything WAS merry once Jose was gone. For about 15 games.
 

haram

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
12,921
Nonsense. He is stinking up the place at Inter week in week out.. Luckily not our problem.
Same way Chelsea fans are disgruntled with Willian. My point was about these players in transition. By all accounts in Jose’s last year at Chelsea Willian was still playing well.

Another manager can have a different way of thinking, my point is you cannot give a manager an extension and then not back his ideas on build up and transition. That doesn’t make sense.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,299
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
Yeah, not quite.

What I've stated is what Mourinho actually achieved, I've also stated that he needed to go, and played rubbish football...

Take a step back and try to understand that not everything is binary, and not everyone who holds slightly different opinion to yourselves is worthy of mockery and rudeness - in doing so, you're showing yourselves up.

I respect Mourinho as a manager for what he's tangibly achieved, same as any other manager - I don't subscribe to tabloid-esque opinions on managers, good or bad, because in reality, I don't care about personalities...

I don't care that Mourinho was the big bad wolf, just as I don't care in the slightest that Olé is a 'nice guy', or even a club legend, I couldn't give a feck in fact.

All I care about, is the best for Manchester United, and that's it.

Mourinho is our most successful manager post-SAF, that is the reality - stating so isn't showing favour to him. And he also took over a flat, lost dressing room and had to implement his own footy after LvG.

My opinion, unpopular as it is, is that Ole will do very well to replicate Mourinho's first 2 seasons here.

The danger is his popularity vs his managerial abilities. Because I assure you right now, he will not be judged to the same standard as Mourinho was / is - in fact some 'fans' are already excusing his failings before they've happened.

All I'm calling for is consistency and fairness in how we judge our managers and what we demand for Man Utd.
Perfectly reasonable.
What is best for Manchester United is all that counts and all I am interested in.
Jose turned us back into a team capable of winning things.
Yes his tenure this season was turning into a disaster.
But we have to understand Cause and Effect.
We all know the effect. The cause is blatantly obvious.
And it is still there.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
27,694
Location
Dublin
And inter fans can't wait to see the back of Perisic.
Yep. Chelsea fans have wanted him (and Pedro) dropped for ages in favour of the likes of CHO etc. Haram will probably say he will have thrived under the management of Mourinho but we already bought one of his former players from the same club (matic) and half of the fans wants him replaced already.
Yeah but, transition, or something.....
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,518
Same way Chelsea fans are disgruntled with Willian. My point was about these players in transition. By all accounts in Jose’s last year at Chelsea Willian was still playing well.

Another manager can have a different way of thinking, my point is you cannot give a manager an extension and then not back his ideas on build up and transition. That doesn’t make sense.
Perisic was in 2017-18 season. He wasn't the target in 2018-19 season.

You can keep repeating the same Transition point, means feck all when Perisic Is average in that.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
23,789
Mourinho is, pound for pound, the worst, most destructive manager this club has ever had.

He wanted better players? Well, fecking never. So does everybody on this forum. That doesn’t mean to say we should be in charge of the football team.

Mourinho bought and benched just about every player he bought. He bought, more or less, an entire first eleven. The players he wanted to buy would have been terrible purchases. The exact sort of purchases the board has been vilified for making in the past.

Even in spite of the good footballers we already have at the club (and we do have good footballers here), he thought it appropriate to cede possession and control to teams like Brighton and Huddersfield. These being conscious tactical decisions, by the way.

When you reflect back on his tenure it borders on inconceivable just how bad he managed to do here.
Exactly this. He wasn't entirely wrong about the lack of quality in the squad - but he was part of the problem. His decisions played a massive part in that lack of quality.

Not to mention he still couldn't get the best out of the squad, let alone transforming it to something more than a sum of its parts.
 

Cockney Phil

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
587
Location
London
If the Sacked One was right, it was through his doing, and he was bloody toxic. He was responsible for the squad and its performances - he won the cups in the first seasons and he was equally responsible for the shite performances at his end during this season. His legacy, if there is one, has largely been on show after he left and the new management team have had to work with it. Good performances, crap performances - it’s a mess but his influence didn’t go away when he was sacked. We have the chance of a fresh start in the summer and hopefully we move forward in a more positive environment.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,562
Yeah, not quite.

What I've stated is what Mourinho actually achieved, I've also stated that he needed to go, and played rubbish football...

Take a step back and try to understand that not everything is binary, and not everyone who holds slightly different opinion to yourselves is worthy of mockery and rudeness - in doing so, you're showing yourselves up.

I respect Mourinho as a manager for what he's tangibly achieved, same as any other manager - I don't subscribe to tabloid-esque opinions on managers, good or bad, because in reality, I don't care about personalities...

I don't care that Mourinho was the big bad wolf, just as I don't care in the slightest that Olé is a 'nice guy', or even a club legend, I couldn't give a feck in fact.

All I care about, is the best for Manchester United, and that's it.

Mourinho is our most successful manager post-SAF, that is the reality - stating so isn't showing favour to him. And he also took over a flat, lost dressing room and had to implement his own footy after LvG.

My opinion, unpopular as it is, is that Ole will do very well to replicate Mourinho's first 2 seasons here.

The danger is his popularity vs his managerial abilities. Because I assure you right now, he will not be judged to the same standard as Mourinho was / is - in fact some 'fans' are already excusing his failings before they've happened.

All I'm calling for is consistency and fairness in how we judge our managers and what we demand for Man Utd.
Your still excusing Mourinho so not really in a position to complain about Ole being excused. What about Jose’s third season can any Utd manager every replicate that or is that just left out so your comments aren’t drivel?.

At the end of the day you think Jose kept us above Liverpool despite finishing below them and every other side in his first season. And by being overtaken by all the same teams in his third. They humiliated us in his last game and he held his hands up saying he couldn’t compete so really intrigued how he kept us above them.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
23,789
Another manager can have a different way of thinking, my point is you cannot give a manager an extension and then not back his ideas on build up and transition. That doesn’t make sense.
But it's important to point out that giving him the extension was the error, not refusing to sign the likes of Willian. There was no reason to jump the gun and give him a contract extension the minute he batted some eyelashes at PSG.
 

Moriarty

Full Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
18,995
Location
Reichenbach Falls
Mourinho was the right man at the wrong time. Had he been appointed after Fergie retired, I think we'd be in far better shape. He would have known how to handle the egos of the league champions. Moyes never got the respect of the senior players and neither did his coaching staff. That wouldn't have been an issue with Mourinho.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Yeah.....good luck with that on here....
Haha, you gotta try man.

Perfectly reasonable.
What is best for Manchester United is all that counts and all I am interested in.
Jose turned us back into a team capable of winning things.
Yes his tenure this season was turning into a disaster.
But we have to understand Cause and Effect.
We all know the effect. The cause is blatantly obvious.
And it is still there.
Completely agree.
 

Fanatic 00237

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,110
Location
Bight of Biafra, Earth, Milky Way
Supports
The Indomitable Lions
He renewed Jose contract yet didn't buy players Jose wanted. Classic silly Ed. We wouldn't have been any worse with Willian seeing Martial now. Ok Willian is older and his legs would fall of but not much of a difference quality wise. Ed didn't want to buy Toby either. Cause apparently he's not better than Mike and Jones.
Of course if you don't want to back the manager, why did you give him an extension and why did you not just sack him? At that point you are just planning for failure.
I get it, it's all knives out for you both against Woodward for sacking you favourite manager, but Woody has been and will continue being (as long he runs the financial part for the club properly) the man who makes the final decision in such cases. I dare say, even if we sign a DoF under his tenure, he will still veto most decisions about big player signings (the world record breaking and huge wages sort à la Pogba and Sanchez). He extended Mourinho's contract after Mourinho's friends in the press started floating rumours of PSG interest. I think he really wanted Mouronho to succeed here but unfortunately once Mourinho started making questionable (in Woodward's opinion) transfer requests, he decided he couldn't follow blindly. Don't forget Mourinho was fully supported in the previous transfer windows with hundreds of millions spent yet the squad was still terribly lacking.

I'm not for one second implying Woodward was right or faultless but he certainly did what he thought made the most sense for the club institution (unlike Mourinho who intentionally sabotaged with funny lineups and formations).

The truth is Mourinho almost always falls out with the poeple above him when things start getting tough. For all the talk of having a DoF to make sound decisions concerning transfers, remember he did fall out with Emenalo at Chelsea previously, so for all Woodward's faults, Mourinho dug his own grave.
 

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,644
Location
Dream
He was just as right as the average fan was. That doesn’t make him special or worthy of praise. The difference between mourinho and the average fan is that he is paid an insane amount of money to actually do something about it. He didn’t. He added fuel to the fire most of the time.

Ole and co are taking us in the right direction. No doubt about that
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Your still excusing Mourinho so not really in a position to complain about Ole being excused. What about Jose’s third season can any Utd manager every replicate that or is that just left out so your comments aren’t drivel?.

At the end of the day you think Jose kept us above Liverpool despite finishing below them and every other side in his first season. And by being overtaken by all the same teams in his third. They humiliated us in his last game and he held his hands up saying he couldn’t compete so really intrigued how he kept us above them.
I'm not excusing anything, read again, and read properly with an open mind.

Mourinho kept us above Liverpool in that his last PL finish was higher than them - and in the time he was manager he won 2 trophies and they won none.

I've stated multiple time that Mourinho needed to go, I've also stated that the football was rubbish.

He had lost the dressing room by October, and needed replacing - that last Liverpool game was a disgrace and he should've been replaced before that imo.

But he also achieved more than any other manager post-SAF and is a proven better manager than OGS, by far.
 

Cockney Phil

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
587
Location
London
Mourinho was the right man at the wrong time. Had he been appointed after Fergie retired, I think we'd be in far better shape. He would have known how to handle the egos of the league champions. Moyes never got the respect of the senior players and neither did his coaching staff. That wouldn't have been an issue with Mourinho.
Entirely agree with you but he came later, too late after his first dismissal and his previous shenanigans, which was not the best circumstances. However since that 0-0 draw against the Scouses, then the defeat by HT and the arrival of Sanchez he went from petulant to a downright shit. He left the squad in a mess and was a disgrace this season. Good riddance to toxicity.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,299
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
I'm not excusing anything, read again, and read properly with an open mind.

Mourinho kept us above Liverpool in that his last PL finish was higher than them - and in the time he was manager he won 2 trophies and they won none.

I've stated multiple time that Mourinho needed to go, I've also stated that the football was rubbish.

He had lost the dressing room by October, and needed replacing - that last Liverpool game was a disgrace and he should've been replaced before that imo.

But he also achieved more than any other manager post-SAF and is a proven better manager than OGS, by far.
All factually correct.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Because he inherited a broken team left by Jose?
Right, but he's had over 20 games to put in place some kind of brand of football with a squad containing some very good players...

Yet, the football is rubbish, as it was with Mourinho.

And his subs are often very weird, and his selections are increasingly daft, and he has no pedigree of delivering decent footy in the PL...
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,562
I'm not excusing anything, read again, and read properly with an open mind.

Mourinho kept us above Liverpool in that his last PL finish was higher than them - and in the time he was manager he won 2 trophies and they won none.

I've stated multiple time that Mourinho needed to go, I've also stated that the football was rubbish.

He had lost the dressing room by October, and needed replacing - that last Liverpool game was a disgrace and he should've been replaced before that imo.

But he also achieved more than any other manager post-SAF and is a proven better manager than OGS, by far.
So he didn’t actually keep us above them he just finished above them once in three seasons, now I get it. Hard to think when I’m hanging my head in shame.

Kept us above Liverpool, it’s made my day, couldn’t have picked a worse compliment based on how it all ended. Sheer brilliance my friend, you truly do have an open mind.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
I get it, it's all knives out for you both against Woodward for sacking you favourite manager, but Woody has been and will continue being (as long he runs the financial part for the club properly) the man who makes the final decision in such cases. I dare say, even if we sign a DoF under his tenure, he will still veto most decisions about big player signings (the world record breaking and huge wages sort à la Pogba and Sanchez). He extended Mourinho's contract after Mourinho's friends in the press started floating rumours of PSG interest. I think he really wanted Mouronho to succeed here but unfortunately once Mourinho started making questionable (in Woodward's opinion) transfer requests, he decided he couldn't follow blindly. Don't forget Mourinho was fully supported in the previous transfer windows with hundreds of millions spent yet the squad was still terribly lacking.

I'm not for one second implying Woodward was right or faultless but he certainly did what he thought made the most sense for the club institution (unlike Mourinho who intentionally sabotaged with funny lineups and formations).

The truth is Mourinho almost always falls out with the poeple above him when things start getting tough. For all the talk of having a DoF to make sound decisions concerning transfers, remember he did fall out with Emenalo at Chelsea previously, so for all Woodward's faults, Mourinho dug his own grave.
You could have gone without a childish 'your favorite manager' part. Crux of the problem is Ed making footballing decisions. He couldn't follow blindly transfer requests? Will be fun if he'll do the same with Ole, following with his famous briefings.. It doesn't matter if Jose fell out with DoFs cause he's not at the club now and we need a DOF and a proper structure. Not a banker who treats the club like real life Disneyland.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
So he didn’t actually keep us above them he just finished above them once in three seasons, now I get it. Hard to think when I’m hanging my head in shame.

Kept us above Liverpool, it’s made my day, couldn’t have picked a worse compliment based on how it all ended. Sheer brilliance my friend, you truly do have an open mind.
You very clearly don't.