People aren't outraged they are laughing about the fact that he is gloating about sneaking out of a home game with an undeserved draw. Most of us are also glad that he is now Spurs problem not ours.
Jose "We did to them what they don't like"
- Thread starter Nou_Camp99
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Stats don't take into account a player making a stupid decision. Lamela had three chances to play in Tottenham players for three almost certain one-on-ones; they weren't even difficult passes to make. Son and Kane in the first half, and Son again in the second half. Really could have changed things if they had a good playmaker, and shows a massive issue in our team that people seem to be ignoring because Lamela failed to make the pass.Yeah. The tactical game was won by Ole if anything. But Jose did do a decent job of mitigating our areas of superiority.
https://understat.com/match/11936
xG is not the best way to argue small differences in matches. But it is a decent indicator for objectively judging the balance of play when the differences are as stark as above.
Any score between 0-0 and 1-3 could have easily happened with a tiny slice of luck for either side. Spurs were lucky with 1-1.
It is hypocritical, though. We played pretty much the same way against City and people loved it. Against City, we had 27% possession in the 2v0 victory. We clearly played on the counter.
Tottenham played on the counter yesterday and, with a better playmaker than Lamela, could have won the match. He had three chances that he completely messed up to put players through on goal, which he completely cocked up. Two of those came in the first half alone; one of them should have been a certainty (Son). They had the potential to win the game in the first half.
But a dick nonetheless!
Yeah it wasnt, he did well just to get a shot on target with his wrong foot because it came to him so quicklyI thought that Rashford's chance that Lloris saved with his feet was a better chance than either of Spurs chances.
Okay so all of our wins against Arsenal on the break with SAF in charge were negative football gotcha. Didnt realise counter attacking football = negative
Yeah, Jose, you're a fecking genius mate. Put ten men behind the ball for 90% of the game at home and hoped for the best. Bellend
Says the one who's clearly worked up over people he doesn't know
Exactly. I'm not sure how they could be properly fit given the time frame.
Not sure how you could watch that low block hoofball performance by Spurs and compare it to anything under Fergie but you do you.
Lick a goal, then sit back & hope for the best - absolute master class there Jose.
Kane man marking our midfielders was a true masterstroke.
Really wish certain individuals hadn’t let the side down badly yesterday cause Spurs were there for the taking.
Kane man marking our midfielders was a true masterstroke.
Really wish certain individuals hadn’t let the side down badly yesterday cause Spurs were there for the taking.
Because I watched our matches against Arsenal where they had loads of the ball trying to attack while we defended and then tried to hit them on the break and usually came away with the win. I guess you werent born yet or something
Imagine having to watch that filth every week again, so glad we've done our time with Jose and can move on, Spurs are more than welcome to him. Just ugly awful stuff.
When has one of the best managers of all time said something similar to what Mourinho said yesterday?
He's already at that phase now. Tough times for Spurs fans. Soon They will think a draw at home is a win. The pattern is being repeated.
I hate Jose more than the next guy, but besides being his usual inflammatory self, which he was going to do regardless of the result of this match, he hasn't exactly said anything out of the world here? Everyone knows our biggest weak point is against teams that sit back and let us have the ball. Even the commentators alluded to this yesterday, and they don't even usually have anything insightful to say. This isn't something new, it's been ongoing for quite some time now. We can only hope that Pogba and Bruno are enough to help us over this hump for the rest of this season. I would be inclined to start Greenwood at RW rather than James as well.
All of that being said, Jose most definitely did not set this tactic up specifically as a way to counter us, as this is all he does anytime a team that's not in the bottom half comes to town. This is his baseline. I am so so glad he isn't our manager anymore. I can't live with the thought of knowing that for 60-70% of the season that's what you have to look forward to. Mind numbing stuff that takes away all the joy of watching football.
All of that being said, Jose most definitely did not set this tactic up specifically as a way to counter us, as this is all he does anytime a team that's not in the bottom half comes to town. This is his baseline. I am so so glad he isn't our manager anymore. I can't live with the thought of knowing that for 60-70% of the season that's what you have to look forward to. Mind numbing stuff that takes away all the joy of watching football.
Well, a certain section of them probably will. If history as taught us anything with Jose, it's that he's great at dividing the fan base. Those that loathe him, and those that hang on every single word he says.
Jose certainly didn't when he managed United. Maybe he was on about their hacking of our players, that for some reason went ignored by the ref? Couldn't believe James was the first player booked in the game. Obviously isn't the crowds that influence refs in a game.
Did you see our game vs city and then Spurs yesterday vs Us..
we rattled City.. had so many chances.. James ran otemandi ragged .. martial did the same to Fernandinho..
Spurs did none of those yesterday..
We clearly had no problem with their parking the bus tactics when Pogba and Greenwood were on. With Rashford lacking sharpness and James being distinctly average as usual then yes he has a point.
A fully fit first 11 wouldn't struggle with teams that sit back as we did earlier in the season. Earlier on in the season we often had two out of James, Lingard and Pereira starting in attack so we were poor in tight spaces and general creativity. The move that led to Martial's blocked shot by Dier is what we'll be seeing a lot more of with Pogba and Bruno on the field.
A fully fit first 11 wouldn't struggle with teams that sit back as we did earlier in the season. Earlier on in the season we often had two out of James, Lingard and Pereira starting in attack so we were poor in tight spaces and general creativity. The move that led to Martial's blocked shot by Dier is what we'll be seeing a lot more of with Pogba and Bruno on the field.
I'm 42 mate. And just because we played on the counter attack it doesn't mean it was the same.
Mourinho sets his teams up to not lose first and foremost, it's a cowardly approach. It's a totally different mindset.
I never mentioned their style of play rather gloating at hanging on for a home draw while we crowed about beating City 2-0.
Need someone like Juan Mata to unlock a defence which is sit deep like that.
What's the point of paying him so much money if they could get those same tactics from a Division 2 manager?
I wouldn't expect anyone to be fully sharp but some of our players were so far off just being fit it was really concerning to me. Compared to the earlier game before ours where most of the players looked perfectly fine. Tottenham looked sharper to me but they definitely tired...plus they did what Jose teams always do these days when a goal up and just stopped playing.
I was pleased with how Shaw and Fernandes looked, and all of the subs made a noticable improvement. Martial as well I thought was fine, but everyone else was a long long way off the pace. Espcially Maguire and Fred/McTominay. The later two were really disappointing as they must know they are under pressure now with Pogba being fit and Matic being in decent form before the break, yet they both looked knackered after 20 minutes and offered absolutely nothing.
I'm not sure what Jose is on about as I thought we looked a bit out of sorts but could easily have won 4-1 and there'd have been no real complaints. Spurs just looked average.
Jose knows the score with us better than most, Ole does too, but I think he hesitated a bit too much last night before changing things, which in fairness was not one of Mourinho's faults.
There was a certain irony too, probably not lost on Jose, in the way their goal came about. Shaw day dreaming with his attempts at 'heading tennis' in the wrong area off the pitch, set it off and Jose must have smiled to himself remembering all the times he would run down the side of the pitch to waken Shaw up, to get him to concentrate, he must have been pleased, for once last night, that his past attempts to make a better defensive thinking player out of Shaw had failed.
There was a certain irony too, probably not lost on Jose, in the way their goal came about. Shaw day dreaming with his attempts at 'heading tennis' in the wrong area off the pitch, set it off and Jose must have smiled to himself remembering all the times he would run down the side of the pitch to waken Shaw up, to get him to concentrate, he must have been pleased, for once last night, that his past attempts to make a better defensive thinking player out of Shaw had failed.
Can't argue with you on that.
Ole's at the wheel, clueless as always.
Some simply can't move on from Mourinho's days here and still enjoy slaughtering him. They just really need to move on and forget about it while focusing forward. It has been a nearly 2 years since he left and some are posting about him as if he's still managing us. He's an opposition manager now, his style of play isn't our problem any more and slaughtering him isn't going to make any difference.
Even the players have moved on :
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Pogba and Bruno firing on all cylinders should solve this issue. I mean they both nearly did yesterday with a killer pass each that Martial and Rashford respectively should’ve finished.
He doesn't need to expand on his point.
Isn't this pretty much the same thing Sam Allardyce (pretty sure it was against Mourinho's Chelsea) said 'Ohhh they didn't like it!'
On the other hand, they didn't like Bruno and Pogba playing together. That should be our go-to strategy against deep defences from now on.
I agree.. This idea that we need more than one defensive player in midfield or forwards that can simply run fast does not suit a possession based game with creativity. Would love to see Pogba, Fernandes and Mata in the same team with Rashford and Martial/Ighalo as forwards against a team that sits back. It’s not as if those three lack movement... they are our most creative players and they know how to pass and keep the ball... and it’s not to say we can’t counterattack with those players either..
Nothing that isn't routinely discussed on here. We're primarily a counter attacking team and don't do great against teams that sit deep.
Bruno and Pogba together should certainly help but more so we need a better No 9, a right winger and some different full back options as well. I recall many discussions even with the creativity of Scholes Carrick and Giggs where we'd have to pass it round the edge of the box relentlessly, we don't even have that level of control yet.
Bruno and Pogba together should certainly help but more so we need a better No 9, a right winger and some different full back options as well. I recall many discussions even with the creativity of Scholes Carrick and Giggs where we'd have to pass it round the edge of the box relentlessly, we don't even have that level of control yet.
When Pogba and Greenwood came on, we looked a lot more creative. Pegged Spurs back and on another day, I felt we could have nicked it.
Going forward, if we start the mentioned players in the games where we'd expect to have most of the ball, then I don't see why we womt be able to break teams down.
Our next game against Sheff will be a good indication of how far we've possibly come regards creativity. They're a team that set up well.
Spurs aren’t a counter attacking team, nor did they play that way last night. To compare that to how we’ve played this season is ridiculous.
As you say, Mourinho sets up to not lose more than anything. Their goal was a speculative hoof up the pitch and a clanger in defence.
Mourinho knows what he’s talking about, and he’s also full of it. He had now had the CL finalists for eight months or so, and has now made them capable of getting away with 3-5 in chances, 5-10 in fangerous atacks and 1-1 in goals, at home against the Solskjær version of his previous team. If he’s satisfied with his strategy yesterday, he must really rate Solskjær’s work!
I think we all know Solskjær first attacking feature has been the direct counters. A year ago we struggled with opening up cautious defences of lower table teams at home. The later months, we succeeded in this on a fairly consistent basis, winning most games against weaker teams playing cautiously, so it’s fair to say we seem to be improving in that regard. Tottenham away isn’t that kind of game, and when they play like that against us and still can’t rob us, it’s a sign of progress to me, rather than stagnation.
I think we all know Solskjær first attacking feature has been the direct counters. A year ago we struggled with opening up cautious defences of lower table teams at home. The later months, we succeeded in this on a fairly consistent basis, winning most games against weaker teams playing cautiously, so it’s fair to say we seem to be improving in that regard. Tottenham away isn’t that kind of game, and when they play like that against us and still can’t rob us, it’s a sign of progress to me, rather than stagnation.
He was comparing it to how Fergie teams played
It's not that straightforward during these matches especially against a Jose. There's always a feeling out period and United played well until the goal that was completely against the run of play.
United had enough chances to get more than one goal but not as if they are playing against ghosts.
Not sure why this is Ole's blame here. His changes were correct and they had enough time to make a difference and they did. Also they are just getting back and all of the players who started were pretty gassed by the 80th minute.
I don't mind James starting because he runs himself into the ground and gets some decent positions but his final ball was lacking and does lack. I have more of an issue with McTominay because he gets to go forward much more than he should and isn't good enough right now to pass forward breaking lines.
Let’s be honest, with Rashford and Martial match fit we would have won that 3/4-1. Rashford would have scored that first goal causing them to break deep discipline. Martial would have scored his Bruno pass. Rashford would have scored that piece of godly talent from Pogba. Greenwood would have scored his automatic routine crossover shot in the end.
mouringo would have come out and blamed the ref anyway
mouringo would have come out and blamed the ref anyway