I can't be arsed looking up stats but I'm sure they back me up if you look at the last few months. You should actually watch his movement when the opposition have the ball and how decent he is in the challenge.
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I can't be arsed looking up stats but I'm sure they back me up if you look at the last few months. You should actually watch his movement when the opposition have the ball and how decent he is in the challenge.
I have watched him, to imply I haven’t just because we have different opinion is misguided.
Either you haven't watched him closely or you're a misery, I'm betting it's the former.
I don’t think him doing home DIY has anything to do with it.
Maybe if you could be bothered to look up the stats you would realise why calling his pressing and ball winning exceptional is a ludicrous comment.
Go for it, educate us.
3rd option. I have watched him, and disagree with your viewpoint. Simples.
Pressing and ball winning has nothing to do with speed.
He tracks back, presses and makes plenty of interceptions.
Just because he doesn't run fast like Amad doesn't mean he doesn't do any of these things.
Zirkzee is a very hard worker and has improved his speed aswell.
However, his biggest issue is he significantly lacks stamina and after 60mins he turns in to a bit of a ghost on the pitch.
He tracks back, presses and makes plenty of interceptions.
Just because he doesn't run fast like Amad doesn't mean he doesn't do any of these things.
Zirkzee is a very hard worker and has improved his speed aswell.
However, his biggest issue is he significantly lacks stamina and after 60mins he turns in to a bit of a ghost on the pitch.
Very simples.
Who is us? That was a hint for you to view the stats. Exceptional is not the word you want to use. Good to decent might be more applicable
Well I don't know, if you were to post the stats then who do you reckon might conceivably look at them?
I might be reading the stats wrong but comparing him to Rashford for 24/25 they have basically the exact same defensive stats. Probably messed up somehow but fbref have them near identical on the player comparison matrix thing.
Zirkzee's interceptions per 90 mins in the league this season is 0.4, same as Rashford at United. Garnacho is 0.5, Amad and Mount are 0.6, Eriksen 0.7
Zirkzee's tackles per 90 mins in the league is 0.9, Rashford 0.6 at United, Garnacho 1.3, Eriksen 1.5, Amad 1.9, Mount 2.3
If I select only the AM role Zirkzee's interceptions are down to 0.3 but his tackles are up to 1.2
Selecting just the striker games, he's clearly winning the ball more than Hojlund which is not surprising because he's also playing more of an advanced midfield position as a false 9 in those games
All in all he is less of a hard working ball winner than Garnacho, Amad, Mount and Eriksen not to mention Bruno but a better ball winner than Rashford and Hojlund... Not saying that much
So why are people mistaken thinking he's good defensively?
Because he had 1 game where he did well with ball winning against Sociedad with 2 tackles, 2 interceptions, 2 clearances, 1 blocked shot and 2 fouls. He turned it on for a game. Despite this his overall tackles and interceptions in the europa league per 90 mins is actually even lower than the premier league with 0.4 interceptions and 0.5 tackles, with 0.0 interceptions and 0.0 tackles (a complete shutout) for his only game starting in AM rather than striker in the Europa, the 2nd leg of Sociedad.
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From November, but he was second in the squad for pressures per game for us. I think since then he's got noticeably fitter so I feel like it'd be a surprise if the numbers were down much since then.
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Why would I post stats for someone who is too lazy to look them up themselves but goes ahead and makes statements saying the stats will back them up?
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You're a little too sensitive. I never mentioned anything about 'downing tools'. Read my post, objectively. I have seen, far, far, far too many average players over the last decade in Man Utd shirt. Zirkzee is yet another one I'm afraid.
Seems a nice guy and all that... few nice touches, but you think he is what aman Utd need in a forward? He doesn't score goals, doesn't create many, doesn't seem dangerous when on the pitch, he isn't clinical.
We have a fan-base which is far too apologetic for players, as if there is something wrong with them. Zirkzee wouldn't get into any other top, top team's forward line.
Yet some seem satisfied with him at OT. Amorim is doing great to get something out of him.
Thats a fair point. I dont necessarily agree with it but I respect it. I dont understand why you said the below though
he doesn't seem to want, really want to improve the team, and take his opportunity to make a difference at Man Utd.
Not a single one is a striker.
I don't understand how people think it's a definite he wouldn't be able to play for a top side while he's already shown that he can do great things. Even Hojlund already's shown he can score goals, but currently does, and while a very different type, so has Zirkzee.
Look, I can see where you're coming from, but both of these strikers have been doomed to fail as not just young players needing time to adapt to a new side but being put in a position where they are the sole responsibles for goals in a side. Whether they can handle the pressure or not, that's an unfair request of almost any striker. Maybe if they'd grown to a more independent level (already) they'd make the team look better than they are, but in this age of systems getting more and more detailed, even freaks of nature like Haaland can't always do that.
You're really overrating the BPL if you think the jump from the Serie A is this big.
Perhaps Kane would have been a bigger chance for instant results, but even that would not be a guarantee, just as much as Bruno or Casemiro - or the development of Mainoo and Amad - didn't solve the midfield, either.
It's really not hard to see Zirkzee would be a much better fit at a team in another situation. Perhaps he's not the solution for United right now, but does that mean he would not be suited to a top side, or that United isn't good enough to get the best out of top players and talents?
Neither of those questions have a definite answer right now. The first half of the season his extreme lack of confidence after a few games surprised me negatively, but the resurgence after such a period surprised me positively. Having seen what he's capable of, based on what he's already shown and things he's improving in, I really don't understand how he's destined to fail at top level teams.
Hope to see him succeed here, but otherwise I hope he leaves soon enough to have a good chance to succeed elsewhere. Sometimes a mismatch is a mismatch. Ready to have him disprove my faith in his talent, as have many talents before him, even without injuries, but he also wouldn't be the first to disprove the "doubters" who talk in definites.
Look, I can see where you're coming from, but both of these strikers have been doomed to fail as not just young players needing time to adapt to a new side but being put in a position where they are the sole responsibles for goals in a side. Whether they can handle the pressure or not, that's an unfair request of almost any striker. Maybe if they'd grown to a more independent level (already) they'd make the team look better than they are, but in this age of systems getting more and more detailed, even freaks of nature like Haaland can't always do that.
You're really overrating the BPL if you think the jump from the Serie A is this big.
Perhaps Kane would have been a bigger chance for instant results, but even that would not be a guarantee, just as much as Bruno or Casemiro - or the development of Mainoo and Amad - didn't solve the midfield, either.
It's really not hard to see Zirkzee would be a much better fit at a team in another situation. Perhaps he's not the solution for United right now, but does that mean he would not be suited to a top side, or that United isn't good enough to get the best out of top players and talents?
Neither of those questions have a definite answer right now. The first half of the season his extreme lack of confidence after a few games surprised me negatively, but the resurgence after such a period surprised me positively. Having seen what he's capable of, based on what he's already shown and things he's improving in, I really don't understand how he's destined to fail at top level teams.
Hope to see him succeed here, but otherwise I hope he leaves soon enough to have a good chance to succeed elsewhere. Sometimes a mismatch is a mismatch. Ready to have him disprove my faith in his talent, as have many talents before him, even without injuries, but he also wouldn't be the first to disprove the "doubters" who talk in definites.
This is my point. Lots of positive plaudits.But he doesn't score goals.
Man Utd should not be some 'community' club, helping players feel better etc. You need to embrace being a Man Utd forward. That's not me, that's just the history and expectations of the club.
Zirkzee seems to be a little lost as to what should be expected of him. I suppose, in his mitigation, he is not the only player going through this.
Because you're a kindly soul who's not intent on adding entirely nothing to the debate?
It is also his first year at the club and he changed coach part way through and is now injured. I think it would be entirely fair to criticise him if he has a disappointing goal tally again next year but in the meantime appreciating the qualities he does have, along with the fact he seems to have improved through the season, is important. It's not like we can change every single player who has disappointed this year and for me his progress is worthy of a bit of a grace period.
I mean it's normal if you're contracted as a link-up option in CF and then - ignoring necessary time for adapting to a new environment in general - but then asked to be a direct striker that it either will take time or means a mismatch.
That's not Zirkzee, that's the current management, both of the club as a whole and the field staff.
So, it's kind of a question of why get a player like him and then ask him to be someone else? You can ask anything of a player, of course, but whether your question gets a desirable answer has to do with more than just the level of a player, or the level at which the team/club wants to play at (eventually).
If the other players were more proficient and better at linking up, perhaps 7 goals would still be low, but if "the eye test" shows he is a part of dominating the side or set ups of goals, it would be considered a non-issue.
Now that Hojlund, Garnacho, until relatively recently Bruno, etc. haven't attributed goals to this side, suddenly a Zirkzee type seems a lacky striker, even though there are plenty sides where he'd be a great fit, and even addition to what they were already capable of. But while it's fair to ask for more result and development from his side, it's unfair to say he's doing a bad job when you ask an apple to act as an orange. Benzema didn't score much when the focus was on supporting Ronaldo, and luckily for them managed to develop that side later, but Benzema was still an amazing and important player before he became their main goal threat.
Seeing Zirkzee already improve so much in areas he wasn't signed for, why judge him for things that weren't his (main purpose). The whole team (relatively) stinks, like you said many players are going through this. They don't suddenly stink themselves, that's why many shone before they signed and are showing at least a higher level after they left, too.
United shouldn't be anything, but any employer is at least partly responsible for their employees, not only for their personal wellbeing, but healthy human beings are also generally speaking the more efficient ones. Otherwise stuff like "people manager" wouldn't be such a big term in football, either. Especially if you get in a young player it would at least help to try to make them feel better. But the club/board do need to figure out a way to get themselves out of this mess. Currently their history is more a thorn in their side than a benefit. The last years have shown that the higher end finishes were (and become even more so) the outliers than the subtop finishes were. United is not a top club right now and everyone who expects them to be at this time is delusional. Now you have Amorim saying that they fight for the title, because he saw what happened to this predecessors willing to admit United is not ready to dominate any time soon. Amorim needs a whole lotta luck to come even close to achieving his words. Hopefully he's lucky enough to win this EL so fans can continue to tell themselves that United is a club with big expectations.
If you're realistic you expect the current United to finish around 4th-8th place and their youngsters to be inconsistent. You're a horrible manager if you get some young adults and expect them to have the composure and output of a seasoned star. Whatever you want as a fan, the club has decided to go for "projects" with these youngsters and I can't think of many projects that began as finished products.
I expected more goals and assists from Zirkzee, too, but he isn't first player to underwhelm in his first 6-12 months. And that's at a stable club in an at least relatively stable team. So if anything, his more recent performances are better than what I expected in December-January. If he doesn't grow further, sure, you win. But if you want to get an instant success, you do a Galacticos. Currently, this club neither can nor (seemingly) wants to, as their "history" is also turning rookies into champions (yes I like Digimon, too). That's why Mainoo and Garnacho, and occasionally Amad and Hojlund, were fan favourites last year. They were far from good enough to star a top side, but they did show a type of promise that got people thinking there might be a bright future ahead again. Just like Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Shaw, and more did before them. Since it's Manchester United and Real Madrid, while you can expect the manager and especially the board to do better, the promise of Zirkzee recently is almost exactly what you can expect at this club. The only thing that turned players like him into "what's wrong with this club" is that the players, at least the experienced players around him either don't perform or don't exist. If someone else is better, you move on from Zirkzee, but currently "what's wrong with the club" is that it's all a chaotic mess beyond any single of its players.
So far we've seen that the failure players were often not terrible after they left, while the club continued its steady downfall. So by now I'd think it'd at least make sense to not single out anyone beyond being a possible misfit. It's exactly the same for players like Garnacho (or Amad, Mainoo, etc). He didn't suddenly lose his talents, but you can see he's a direct wide player with a tendency to be selfish, but with a decent/promising finish. But expect him to be a 10 and suddenly his runs are often useless, misdirected and you miss a more creative playmaker in your more forward areas. You might get a similar result if you expect Amad to focus on being direct, though he seems to be a more adaptable type of player. Zirkzee doesn't look like an Amorim player so far and I don't think we can judge any player on the first few months of this season, especially the new ones. Honestly I am surprised Zirkzee is moving closer to what Amorim wants from his players/strikers than Hojlund managed to do. But if they stick with Amorim I still think it might be best for both Garnacho and Zirkzee to look elsewhere. Not because they cannot meet the expectations for the club (incosistent players who might show better things later is exactly what I expect from this club no matter what coach leads them), but, if you'll allow my amateur scouting, because they don't fit the direction (of playstyle) this club and manager has decided to head in.
Excuse my slight hyperfixation leading to all this
Feel free to pass by it if not interested in all that. Part of who I am, but aware it's not part not of all of us 
Plus I think this basically functions as a TLDR-summary of sorts
He has something to work with. His base level of technical proficiency is there but he tends to mess up passes and shots but with work that could get better as his actual technical qualities exist. He seems a popular guy in the dressing room too and appreciated by his teammates. Definitely deserves another season to see how he gets on and develops but we cannot leave ourselves in a position of relying on him and expecting him to turn into a monster. We need better options in and for Zirkzee to then give the manager a headache by proving he can be a top player too, this would be ideal as we need depth of quality. Holding positions for players that are not top quality is what has led to us falling off, we should never have gone into last season keeping positions for Hojlund, Mount, Antony and Rashfor and hoping they would all turn to Gold.
At the minimum he's a very interesting tactical option for Amorim. He's quite hard to define, he's very good at certain things which are quite rare in someone his size and then also weaker in other areas where you'd think he'd be better. I've always been happy for him to develop, it's kind of the same with all the young guys here, it's not their fault they've been put into the first team and expected to produce without any senior players ahead of them, Rasmus/Zirkzee should be behind a top number 9, Garnacho should be behind a Rashford equivalent etc.
Is he 100% out for the season? I remember hearing the same about Amad but here he is.
I'd love to see the both linking-up together before the season ends now that Zirkzee is getting more adjusted here.
I'd love to see the both linking-up together before the season ends now that Zirkzee is getting more adjusted here.
Didn’t put a foot wrong tonight
Any chance of him being available for finals?
Sadly no, Amorim confirmed a couple weeks ago it's a hamstring one that will rule him out for this season. We're just going to need our #10's to step up.
As was said about Amad, Mainoo and Dalot at different stages this season, and there’s a chance all 3 could be fit for the final. When giving these prognosis, we didn’t necessarily know what ‘the rest of the season’ actually meant for us. Having him even on the bench would be great. He’d have probably started if fit, as he was playing some good stuff and is far better than Hojlund.
The final is 2 weeks away, as much as I’d like to be wrong it looks like there’s absolutely zero chance. He’d have to be playing a part at the weekend and I don’t believe he’s even training yet is he?
Has said that he is trying to make it back for the final, although it will be close. He’s been out for a while, but if it is at all possible - I’d be looking to start him frankly, not just have him on the bench. We can be confident that Hojlund will make no impact, while Zirkzee at least has some qualities even if he doesn’t score a goal.
Him starting in finals would be huge boost for us. His hold up play would allow Amad and Garnacho to exploit space behind Spurs defence.
Be shocked if he gets back in the next 11 days
He shouldn't be pushing himself for the final. Yes its a bummer he'll miss out but he can't be accelerating the process of recovery. He needs to be patient and just accept it for what it is.
We've all seen this play out over the years when players have done this, especially when International tournaments come around, and the players are poorer for it in the following campaign.
We've all seen this play out over the years when players have done this, especially when International tournaments come around, and the players are poorer for it in the following campaign.