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Firmino looks like twice the player Zirkzee is.Firminho scored average 10 goals per season in the PL.
He was a very successful player for Liverpool.
I think Zirkzee should be able to get 10 goals per season in the league.
Whilst he did only score 3 this year, he clearly wasn't physically up to the standard in the first half of the season whilst also playing as an attacking midfielder in alot of games afterwards.
Get 10 goals Zirkzee! I don't even care about assists because his interlink play is exceptional. His work rate and defensive ability is actually very underrated & is definitely better than Hojlunds.
Firmino looks like twice the player Zirkzee is.
or starters he had a level of professionalism that didn't turn up to the league overweight.
I disagree. Many people have talked about how great Zirkzee's played directly after matches, so I'm not sure it's just made up the less he plays. People genuinely loves some of his performances for example vs Sociedad so I don't think it's made up.A player who gets better in people's minds the less he plays. Yes he's better than hojlund but that's not saying much. He's average at best
Firminho scored average 10 goals per season in the PL.
He was a very successful player for Liverpool.
I think Zirkzee should be able to get 10 goals per season in the league.
Whilst he did only score 3 this year, he clearly wasn't physically up to the standard in the first half of the season whilst also playing as an attacking midfielder in alot of games afterwards.
Get 10 goals Zirkzee! I don't even care about assists because his interlink play is exceptional. His work rate and defensive ability is actually very underrated & is definitely better than Hojlunds.
I was just saying he should be ahead of Hojlund if we don’t sign anyone . Neither of them are good enough for where we want to beA player who gets better in people's minds the less he plays. Yes he's better than hojlund but that's not saying much. He's average at best
He's probably one of the most skilful players in the squad and we missed him for the EL final.A player who gets better in people's minds the less he plays. Yes he's better than hojlund but that's not saying much. He's average at best
A PL striker with no pace, no strength, no poaching instinct and no mobility has to have something else in his locker to help him score goals. He shows some cheeky skills from time to time but is that enough? Probably not. The only way he scores goals is if the likes of Cunha, Mbeumo, Bruno and co set him up with plenty of chances… but he has to make the right runs and get himself in the right positions.
As much as I’m looking forward to our new signings showing more creativity, assertiveness and energy in attacking areas, I hate the idea of them feeding Zirkzee and Hojlund as our only forward options.
Give over, Firmino scored 10 and got 7 assists in the Prem in his first season over 31 games (24 starts) and was their top scorer in the league. Came in similar circumstances too, first season a manager got sacked early and replaced and the team had an underwhelming season results wise.I dont know, i think it's hindsight that makes Firminho look twice the better player in his first few years because Firminho became a top class player in his prime whilst Zirkzee's got a long way to go to reach that level.
Firminho was looking like a very average striker until Klopp got his system right. Then Firminho started to go up a level with amazing players around him which took the goalscoring duty out off his hands. This has still yet to be done with Zirkzee & he is being made to play as a goalscorer than an interlinking player for wider forwards.
I don't think Zirkzee was overweight, I think he just underestimated how physical and speedy you need to be to play in the PL.
Mainoo for example is another player with similar problems to Zirkzee's first few months.
Both look like they have absolutely no stamina, no speed, no acceleration or no strength.
You should see how Mainoo is built now in the gym. Zirkzee's improved too.Their weaknesses has been addressed or been targeted, which is a good thing.
PL players flourish in Serie A because there's much less speed and more space. But the biggest thing that benefits Zirkzee's game in Serie A is that the ball is regularly on the floor which allows him to be more technical. His finishing is better when the ball is on the floor than when he has to hit a volley or a header.
In the PL the ball is more bouncing and in the air which doesn't suit Zirkzee's style as much. However, in Serie A Zirkzee's goal record was still only 13 goals, so him achieving 10 in the PL may not be realistic.
I disagree. Many people have talked about how great Zirkzee's played directly after matches, so I'm not sure it's just made up the less he plays. People genuinely loves some of his performances for example vs Sociedad so I don't think it's made up.
The thing with Zirkzee is he does somethings brilliantly that alot of players struggle to do which gets the fans off their seats - but it still doesn't lead to anything, so alot of our fans just sit back down. Stand up and sit down rather than standing up all the time.
That's why many people want to see if he can fit in with players like Mbeumo because Zirkzee has moments of brilliance that currently doesn't lead to anything. If that composure and clinical abilities is given to some other player - then Zirkzee's moments of brilliance can help someone elses clinical abilities rather than his own or even players like Garnacho & Hojlund who has lacked clinical efficiency.
Give over, Firmino scored 10 and got 7 assists in the Prem in his first season over 31 games (24 starts) and was their top scorer in the league. Came in similar circumstances too, first season a manager got sacked early and replaced and the team had an underwhelming season results wise.
If a player returned that for us we'd be talking about them as though they were on the cusp of being world class.
Zirkzee was largely awful for us. Had the odd game when our expectations were low where he looked like he could put himself about a bit and have some street football credentials but he's a long way off looking anything above a maybe at the moment.
He came in as a striker, now we're scrabbling to believe he might be a 10. Not because he has genuine qualities there that would put him in over an actual 10 but because he lacks clearly many of the qualities needed to be a top #9 in the Prem.
We don’t need a false 9; we need an actual 9. Zirkzee went from looking like a fish out of water to eventually resembling a professional. Whether he is PL quality has not been proven yet. His signing made and continues to make no sense because he and everyone else said he’s not a 9 or a 10. He’s not a goal scorer. He can’t play as a 9 and he’s 4th or 5th choice as a 10, which means he’s redundant.Did Firminho play games most of the season as the AM? If i remember he played as the goalscoring ST.Did he play in a 352 under a very defensive manager? I don't think he did
Anyway, you are right Firminho is arguably one of the best False 9 that I remember so comparing him to Zirkzee's ability is unfair because Firminho is again one of the best players of his position possibly of all time.
Still the point is, that False 9's don't need to be these 20 a season goalscorers & Zirkzee needs to add a few to reach up to Firminho's level.
Whether he does that or not is really up to him and no one can be sure until he succeeds or fails.
Going from 3 to 10 doesn't seem to be impossible to me personally especially if Amorim uses him as a CF alongside wide forwards. If you think that's impossible then okay.
We don’t need a false 9; we need an actual 9. Zirkzee went from looking like a fish out of water to eventually resembling a professional. Whether he is PL quality has not been proven yet. His signing made and continues to make no sense because he and everyone else said he’s not a 9 or a 10. He’s not a goal scorer. He can’t play as a 9 and he’s 4th or 5th choice as a 10, which means he’s redundant.
You don't remember. Benteke or Sturridge (when fit) played through the middle.Did Firminho play games most of the season as the AM? If i remember he played as the goalscoring ST.Did he play in a 352 under a very defensive manager? I dont remember any of this but i dont think he did
Anyway, you are right Firminho is arguably one of the best False 9 that I remember so comparing him to Zirkzee's ability is unfair because Firminho is again one of the best players of his position possibly of all time.
Still the point is, that False 9's don't need to be these 15-20 a season goalscorers & Zirkzee needs to add a few to reach up to Firminho's level.
Whether he does that or not is really up to him and no one can be sure until he succeeds or fails.
Going from 3 to 10 doesn't seem to be impossible to me personally especially if Amorim uses him as a CF alongside wide forwards. If you think that's impossible then okay.
Also we are not scrambling to believe he is a 10, Amorim is scrambling because he never uses a false 9. Just like Amorim is trying to use Mainoo as a ST and an AM because amorim can only use one type of player for each strict position. Mainoo would never play those positions under a different manager. Also Amorim might not be our manager in 3 months time & suddenly Zirkzee and Mainoo could have a manager that suits their type of skillset more which would also help Zirkzee going from 3 to 10 goals.
You don't remember. Benteke or Sturridge (when fit) played through the middle.
You made the comparison initially. I've seen nothing from Zirkzee to suggest that he's going to be any better a striker for us than Weghorst was really...other than the odd nice flick
Firminho scored average 10 goals per season in the PL.
He was a very successful player for Liverpool.
I think Zirkzee should be able to get 10 goals per season in the league.
Whilst he did only score 3 this year, he clearly wasn't physically up to the standard in the first half of the season whilst also playing as an attacking midfielder in alot of games afterwards.
Get 10 goals Zirkzee! I don't even care about assists because his interlink play is exceptional. His work rate and defensive ability is actually very underrated & is definitely better than Hojlunds.
You're chatting some absolute nonsense here. Firmino was well renowned as a deep lying creative forward who played as a second striker or AM before he signed for Liverpool - there were articles at the time comparing him to Thomas Muller.By transfering to Liverpool, Firmino was frequently used as Attacking Midfielder and Second Striker under Brendan Rodgers. The arrival of Jürgen Klopp, in October 2015, signified the individual liberation of the player. Klopp detected his defensive skills and he placed him at the top of the formation as false “9”.
https://statathlon.com/fx-ray-project-roberto-firmino/
Looks like Firminho got to play his position more under Rodgers as a second striker & Klopp played him as a false 9.
Seems like Firminho played some games as an AM like Zirkzee did but Zirkzee never got to play as the 2nd striker or False 9 here at United which again suits his ability.
You're chatting some absolute nonsense here. Firmino was well renowned as a deep lying creative forward who played as a second striker or AM before he signed for Liverpool - there were articles at the time comparing him to Thomas Muller.
Rodgers managed him for just over 2 months. Klopp for the rest of that season. Benteke played 50 games that season, he was the main through the middle striker
Zirkzee only ever has played as a false 9 here. Because he's not a real 9 and therefore has basically just done the job of a false 9 inadvertently. Or played as a 10 because he's not a real 9.
I consider a second season to be the season when we should be able to tell whether there is a long term future here and I'm mildly optimistic he ll prove that he deserves the place. Or lets hope he does otherwise it's gonna be a very bleak season again going forward.Looking sharp in preseason training
Yea but it’s hard to fight the suspicion that those training videos have been curated to highlight his good moments; expectation management regarding signing a new striker and all that…Looking sharp in preseason training
