Do we get any benefit from loaning him though? It's not like we would be able to bring in anyone just from a loan fee, I think we'd need a sale.
Joshua Zirkzee
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
Quite possibly. He's not short of skill, you're right there.
Then we'll have to put up with people convinced he would've done it here if he'd stayed.
Yeah we are lumbered and it's the exact reason we won't be signing a backup striker this summer
To be fair we only had one game a week. There weren’t too many minutes we could give him.
Just doesn't suit the pace of Premier League
Nah.... We'd just loan him out why halt his career?
People seem to use Berbatov as a weapon to fight back at people who say Zirkzee is too casual and not up to the pace of the PL. As if Berbatov wasn't hammered by United fans for exactly the same thing when he played for us... and Zirkzee isn't getting close to the numbers he got. I think at leats a loan is needed to see if he can become more productive, otherwise he's useless bar the occasional bit of play that's nice to watch.
Dozens!!
Can I join?
He has ability. I like him.
I just wish someone would give a big slap before every game and get him fired up. An aggressive Zirkzee has something to offer
But…he’s a laid back dude. He doesn’t, like Hughes, turn into an animal and I just can’t see any way to fire a rocket up him
Yeah I would keep him IF we had a proper backup striker
May I remind you, that every single time Carrick didn't play or start Sesko, he played Mbeumo up front, almost NEVER trusting Zirkzee, except for some short cameos? It is clear that our current manager hasn't trusted Zirkzee and there's no reason why that will change.
I would actually speculate that in a pinch we may rather play Cunha as #9 than Zirkzee. He probably would do a better job too. If Rashy returns, he also would certainly be preferred as #9 to Zirkzee. Zirkzee simply is not a premier-league style striker.
True, but our management sucks at selling, so it may need to happen in a two-step action: first loan, then sell. Otherwise, we will keep talking about Zirkzee as a United player through June 2029, which is when his contract ends
He was behind Sesko, who wasn't even a guarenteed starter. Ugarte got more mins - albeit only by 20
If we loan him out, that doesn't help us getting in a replacement. He'll have him in the squad if the option is not getting a replacement, but I don't see why he would trust him all of a sudden after showing no signs of doing so.
True. But sometimes a manager picks a player, it works for a few games and then they stick with it. Even if it's no longer really working. That's what happened with Mbeumo up top. Doesn't mean it'll be like that forever.
But with a lot more games next season I can see there being openings for Zirkzee.
I wouldn't bet on it, as you say there's no real evidence of trust in him from Carrick. He could just as easily be leaving.
He might be an interesting player for the CL games where we have a lot of the ball.
As others have said I think it's pretty clear he lacks the intensity for the PL but he is still a good player. Both things can be true
As others have said I think it's pretty clear he lacks the intensity for the PL but he is still a good player. Both things can be true
He’s been rubbish, but he’s not someone on massive wages we’re trying to boot out of the door like a Sancho. Has to be worth our while letting him go for us to do it. Loan with a conditional obligation like Hojlund at absolute worst.
You are right, both things are true and Zirkzee is a talented player. I have bigger issue with his position than anything else. He is some kind of false 9 / advanced midfielder rather than an out-and-out striker. I don't think we ever play with a system that needs such player and he ends-up stepping on Bruno's toes most of the time, which is not good
What I am actually surprised about is - why does Zirkzee not have ambition to play more and not pushing for exit (as far as we know, that is)? If i were a talented player like him, I would want to maximize my playing time and be at a team where I actually play
I will reiterate my point earlier, IF we had a backup striker to Sesko (not Cunha/Mbeumo/Rashford) then I would be happy to keep him around for CL games.
Minimal end product. He might eventually come good, but not in this league. Id sell if we get a decent offer.
You are right, both things are true and Zirkzee is a talented player. I have bigger issue with his position than anything else. He is some kind of false 9 / advanced midfielder rather than an out-and-out striker. I don't think we ever play with a system that needs such player and he ends-up stepping on Bruno's toes most of the time, which is not good
What I am actually surprised about is - why does Zirkzee not have ambition to play more and not pushing for exit (as far as we know, that is)? If i were a talented player like him, I would want to maximize my playing time and be at a team where I actually play
I would imagine he knows he's not going to get a bigger wage in a better club than this. The longer he runs down his deal/stays in this shop window the better the deal he'll be able to get at his next club or he may be able to turn it around here and even get a raise. Things change fast in football, one or two goals and the picture around him changes quite dramatically. The thing is though that the manager I don't think fancies him all that much.
Croadyman, I don't actually think we need a backup striker if Zirkzee stays. Sesko or Mbuemo are backups to each other and then there's this lad. It's clearly always nice to find better players but if the offers for the players we have are really crap and they are serviceable backup players with some possible upside left then maybe the feeling inside the club is that it's better to stick with what we have than take a big loss and move on. Plus it does seem cash is much tighter around the place in this window.
Possibly. Despite people saying he is crap, he is clearly talented. His teammates always say that in small sided training games whoever has Zirkzee or Bruno tends to win, the key is being able to translate that ability to 11 a side in England. He obviously did well enough to be YPOTY in Serie A, so he is not total crap but there is an issue in getting the best out of him in real games. I am not against keeping him because we likely won't get a good fee for him and he seems to be a positive presence around the club as opposed to a negative one.
A lot of unseen things go into a harmonious squad and I would like to see us have a last go at trying to figure out how to get the best out of him. We have seen players like Joelinton go from joke to quality player via perseverance and trying new things but if he was sold I wouldn't cry about it.
Right now I'm in the camp that says a top LB is the highest priority and shouldn't be subordinated to picking up two squad players, if that were the choice we had to make between the two. If we picked up Hall (hard, but not impossible) for 80m and had to keep Zirkzee and bring up Gore or Collyer as our sixth midfielder, I'm good.
Heh
We shouldn't have to be sacrificing positions because the previous regime threw away hundreds of millions. I admit he has some ability on the ball, however this league is too fast for him so why not find someone better suited to it.
More loans with option to buy ffs
"Conditional obligation" would be my guess
That's what happens when you buy average players, unfortunately
There is almost zero chance we'll let him go out on loan unless it comes with a ridiculous loan fee + obligation.
We're only interested in selling him for the cash - sounless the loan is with a hefty obligation I seriously doubt we'll be interested.
We're only interested in selling him for the cash - sounless the loan is with a hefty obligation I seriously doubt we'll be interested.
I think it would be something similar to the Hojlund loan. Not the same fee, but something like a 20 million mandatory buy option if Juve qualify for CL. I would take that deal tbh. Don't see anyone else paying close to 20 million this summer for Zirkzee given his last 2 years here.
It’s more a case of we’re just shite at selling. If it was City, Chelsea or Liverpool they would end up recouping what they paid for him in a permanent deal.
Not for Zirkzee they wouldn't. Chelsea had to loan Nicholas Jackson last season because they couldn't sell him and he's a better player.
Yeah, he has one market - Serie A. All of which who are notoriously tight.
If we dont sell him, keep. Loan is annoying and I doubt we have money to buy a better replacement
Even if he plays a decent role in a title challenge they won’t pay up. Just like Barca and Rashford.
Which is the issue buying from Serie A. Not to mention the quality of that league is so poor that it's hard to judge a players actual ability. I'm not sure why we keep going back.
Ok, we keep him until a oaying buyer is found.
I don’t see the point in keeping him regardless - he doesn’t offer us anything other than a body
I’m not so sure. This might be the last time we can extract decent value out of him. Another season barely playing and producing nothing when he does, probably means we’ll just get people knocking on our door wanting to pay fixer upper prices. We already know he’s not up to the job. Why run down his value and get nothing in the way of performances on the pitch?