We played him there nearly 100 times. By the time we signed Bruno we had resorted to Perreira such was Mata’s ineffectiveness
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I find it weird that one game has so many people hyping him up again.
The team balance looks better with him in it, and he certainly did a better job than Rashford would've done, but his legs have been gone for years now. If Mata was playing regularly he'd struggle with it, same story as Matic.
I've always been quite befuddled by the lack of respect Herrera got on the redcafe by some. Same with Mata. As your post has said, I've always preferred these over the likes of Pogba, Lingard. Players with a footballing brain are so much more entertaining to watch.
Ahhh yes, let's lie to ourselves about how great he should've been or how great he was for us.
People often treat Mata as if he's a youth team product. He came here as a big signing for what was a lot of money at the time. Objectively speaking he failed to reach the expectation we had at the beginning. The only thing that worked in his favour is we had several more high profile flops that it made Mata look somewhat decent.
He's been here 8.5 years and played under 5 managers, not once did he ever perform at a consistently high level so the praise he's received has always confused me.
And what is this about us not building around him
you actually have to be good enough for a team to do that. In all hos time here, Mata has never been linked with moves away to better clubs, I wonder why? He's a likable guy but let's not rewrite history about his time here. He's been a 6.5/10 player.
People often treat Mata as if he's a youth team product. He came here as a big signing for what was a lot of money at the time. Objectively speaking he failed to reach the expectation we had at the beginning. The only thing that worked in his favour is we had several more high profile flops that it made Mata look somewhat decent.
He's been here 8.5 years and played under 5 managers, not once did he ever perform at a consistently high level so the praise he's received has always confused me.
And what is this about us not building around him
you actually have to be good enough for a team to do that. In all hos time here, Mata has never been linked with moves away to better clubs, I wonder why? He's a likable guy but let's not rewrite history about his time here. He's been a 6.5/10 player.The problem I found with him is the problem I found with Kagawa, we mostly played them both out of position. Not that it's an excuse but I often feel like if played him as we now do Bruno Fernandes we'd have seen a wildly different Juan Mata but we never had managers that did that, they were always shunted onto the wingsAhhh yes, let's lie to ourselves about how great he should've been or how great he was for us.
People often treat Mata as if he's a youth team product. He came here as a big signing for what was a lot of money at the time. Objectively speaking he failed to reach the expectation we had at the beginning. The only thing that worked in his favour is we had several more high profile flops that it made Mata look somewhat decent.
He's been here 8.5 years and played under 5 managers, not once did he ever perform at a consistently high level so the praise he's received has always confused me.
And what is this about us not building around him
Mata showed more footballing intelligence in 75 minutes last night than most have shown in 36 games this season.
I don't care what your stats say. There's no way Mata has played nearly 100 times as #10. You only have to watch us regularly to realise it's BS.
So there are a few moments that sum up his career with us and why we are a mess
He was bought in January for a big price, and Moyes didnt know how to use him. Clearly didnt. The one or two times he played well was when he linked up with Kagawa (but season was pretty much over anyway).
Under LVG, his best moments were probably in that 433 in the first season where on the right he formed a partnership with Valencia and Herrera (but that went to shit when Carrick got injured and herrera had to drop deeper). (this resulted in his goals against City and Liverpool where ive never ever seen us dominate a Liverpool team like that at Anfield)
His second season under LVG was summed up when he had probably his best game in the CL match against but is subbed off for a half injured unfit Nick Powell.
Under Jose I just remember him always being subbed off when we were winning 1-0 for somebody taller/bigger which meant we lost the ability to keep the ball near the other end of the pitch and almost always conceding by sitting back.
Ole wanted fast players so didnt use him. And Rangnick throws him on in the first time in ages against Atleti when were 1-0 down. So yeah....
I reckon he needed a manager like Pep. I equally think if we had got Silva instead of Mata (and mata went city) things would have been different for both players (in that we would have ruined David Silva the same way)
He was bought in January for a big price, and Moyes didnt know how to use him. Clearly didnt. The one or two times he played well was when he linked up with Kagawa (but season was pretty much over anyway).
Under LVG, his best moments were probably in that 433 in the first season where on the right he formed a partnership with Valencia and Herrera (but that went to shit when Carrick got injured and herrera had to drop deeper). (this resulted in his goals against City and Liverpool where ive never ever seen us dominate a Liverpool team like that at Anfield)
His second season under LVG was summed up when he had probably his best game in the CL match against but is subbed off for a half injured unfit Nick Powell.
Under Jose I just remember him always being subbed off when we were winning 1-0 for somebody taller/bigger which meant we lost the ability to keep the ball near the other end of the pitch and almost always conceding by sitting back.
Ole wanted fast players so didnt use him. And Rangnick throws him on in the first time in ages against Atleti when were 1-0 down. So yeah....
I reckon he needed a manager like Pep. I equally think if we had got Silva instead of Mata (and mata went city) things would have been different for both players (in that we would have ruined David Silva the same way)
it’s our loss this guy hasn’t played more often over the last couple of years. He is the player with the best football brain in the squad, but our style of play has been counter attack with players with more pace… that didn’t work!
Yes, this one. Thanks.
Loved how he managed to get away from the defender there and then played a pretty good pass to Ronaldo
When you don’t play, your rating always seems to go up
His use since the start of his time is up for debate - but I think it's hard to argue that he shouldn't have been used more this season - considering a) how often we've been wank against crap teams and b) Our persistance with using under performing players.
He has never been crap for us, the only issue has been we have been constantly changing managers with different styles of play and some who play a way in which Mata doesn't fit into their systems. The fact that he isn't the quickest and the most physical doesn't help him. However, what is quite clear is that providing it's vs the right opposition he has always looked technically superior to majority of our players in my eyes and should have definitely been playing more than he has been in recent seasons under Ole.
I wouldn't have thought it was that much but he's definitely played at #10 more than what most people seem to think. Multiple times we tried to play him at #10 and, bar the odd good game here and there, he's generally been poor. Each time he then got moved to the right and performed better, so he then mostly stayed there.
What people have to realise is that just playing at #10 isn't a magic bullet. There's a huge difference between playing as a #10 in a team that doesn't have much interplay in attacking positions and is very reliant on individual brilliance (ie. us for the entire time that Mata has been here), and playing #10 for a team that has great movement and interplay. The latter is what we hope we'll be moving towards with ETH coming in next season, and if that had happened earlier Mata would likely have had a lot more success. But we haven't had that before, so Mata has struggled to have any kind of impact and ended up being better on the right as a wide playmaker instead. VDB is a fairly obvious example of the difference as well, as was Kagawa back in the day and perhaps to a lesser extent Mkhitaryan as well.
In fact we were a bit of a black hole for #10's since Rooney, until we got one who was able to be very individualistic in his own right in Bruno.
I'm not sure about the local fanbase, but United fans in Hong Kong rate him disproportionately high which annoys me a lot.
He is a very likable player, there’s probably not a single football fan in the world who has anything against him. But when I think of past players who are a small part of our history and had very short careers here such as Forlan and Veron, still even they at least contributed to us winning a league title.
It’s not much Mata’s fault but based on football contribution/success for United only I can’t think of many positives. Record signing, high wages, very little success.
But thanks for the memories (landing in a helicopter and the thread/posts “Mata in suits” on the Caf prior to him joining).
It’s not much Mata’s fault but based on football contribution/success for United only I can’t think of many positives. Record signing, high wages, very little success.
But thanks for the memories (landing in a helicopter and the thread/posts “Mata in suits” on the Caf prior to him joining).
Tbf though, Forlan and Veron played in a much better team. United have had, and still have, great players, but we haven't been a great team.
Veron was actually one of the many under achievers who fell at the OT fence.
Brighton 4:0 Man Utd
He was involved in some of our only good chances in the game, but selecting him against a very aggressive Brighton midfield was such a bad choice.
shouldn't have started, maybe could've come on around the hour mark to help with his creativity, Brighton were too intense for his turtle legs
One performance vs a shocking Brentford really had people convinced as if his 8 year tenure at the club hasn't been mediocre at best
Anything else to say?
Even in his best days for us he was a player that had a good game in every 6-7.
What it shows though is we desperately need some consistent technical players to pass well and see openings and get us moving forward and the right manager.
David Silva did point out years ago we've misused Mata, I think he was right. Moyes brought him in to add creativity but didn't know what to do with him and all his time here has been brief glimpses of his ability. Playing him today was a hit and hope from Ralf.
What it shows though is we desperately need some consistent technical players to pass well and see openings and get us moving forward and the right manager.
David Silva did point out years ago we've misused Mata, I think he was right. Moyes brought him in to add creativity but didn't know what to do with him and all his time here has been brief glimpses of his ability. Playing him today was a hit and hope from Ralf.
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His lack of any kind of athleticism just gets exposed against teams like this who don't give him any time or space at all.
Predictably useless.
Terrible. Way too weak and slow for this league. People gassing up one performance can now see why he hasn't been getting picked.
Yeah...there’s a reason he’s been near useless for the past nine years and one game isn’t changing that.
Don't think he was good, but compared to the rest of them, I'd say he was among the better players. If (and that didn't happen often) we did do anything good, he was mostly involved in the move and that's all I can say about him today
Yep. It’s so basic that most fans can see that. I have no idea why he hasn’t at least tried something different tactically, rather than playing Mata against a team that was clearly set up to play differently to Brentford.
Grow up.
Touché
So he wasn't misused the last 8 years? Bummer
I guess a player that has won almost every title there is to win and also was 2x player of the year for a top club might just had a mediocre career. The sport is filled with people with similar careers.
Lovely bloke and all but he doesn't half get away with being a complete wet blanket for most of his time here. What happened to the Mata of Chelsea? We never really saw it, just this lightweight tiki taka not quite good enough bollocks for most of his stint.
Which muppet said he and Matic have been criminally under used????
Mata wasn't underused under LVG. He was in the Mourinho era, but he's been on the decline for most of Ole's tenure.Which muppet said he and Matic have been criminally under used????
He's physically out of his depth, but I think it's unfair to point to yesterday and say "so he was shit for the past 8 years." There's a difference between a 34y old and a 28y old.
This.
I like Mata and he was great at Chelsea but he needs workers around him.
Jose sold him to us because he was not making his first 11 and Oscar could run a lot more.
Matic was great as well alongside Fabregas but us paying 40mil for him at that stage of his career was ludicrous.
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