Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

AfonsoAlves said:
I really disagree with this:

He played that role at Dortmund and was great.

Julian Brandt was the main attacking midfielder of the 3. Bellingham's job was do a bit of everything. He was so good in that role you guys decided to splash 100 million on him.

Prior to you buying him he had never played closer to the top of the pitch. Everything Madrid saw in him was playing the exact position that I described, the B2B all action midfielder.

He's not an above average passer? Come on mate, even today's pass. You think Ugarte could have played that pass?

There are also valid criticisms for Bellingham like his ability to waste energy chasing down balls that are lost, or being a bit petulant, or sometimes dribbling the ball down blind alleys. But I've yet to see any indication that defensively, Bellingham lacks awareness and decision making.

Even those games in the CL where he was camped in his own half, or when he shunted left midfielder to provide cover, did he do anything silly or lead to any chances for the opposition which made you think, "shit, what was Bellingham doing defensively there?"
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He's not above average passer, ugarte is below average so the comparison is pointless.

He doesn't know how to position properly as a CM, not is he good at moving the ball around effectively. You cannot just say he's a central midfielder because he can run around well.
 
Tallis said:
So if Tuchel plays only one #10, and lets say we have agreed that Jude is best deployed as a #10 (Rice and Anderson as CMs), would you rather play Palmer or Jude ?
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Both of course. There's no reason England shouldn't try
 
giorno said:
Both of course. There's no reason England shouldn't try
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I'd try both beforehand or maybe in the group stages, but I'd be leaning towards Palmer being on the bench when the World Cup comes.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Maybe it stems from his performances for England, which haven't been as good as that for Madrid? He was disappointing in Euro' 24 and Tuchel has even talked about not having him in the first XI.

For Germany, we've rarely had a player who wasn't great at club and national team level. The one player who you could say didn't replicate club form with national team, because of how great that club form was, was Kroos. Non-Germany fans would not think it's a debate between Kroos and someone like Schweinsteiger/Ballack but for Germany fans (other than @Zehner :lol:) it might be one given how they played for the NT.

For England fans, it might that the NT counts for more and what they see is an over hyped player, based on his Madrid performances, who isn't performing the same for England.
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50% of Germany fans don't follow football outside of international tournaments. If you ask them, they'll probably tell you that Lukas Podolski was a better player than Marco Reus, Mesut Özil and Ilkay Gündogan so I don't think that's an opinion one should go by. "Querpass-Toni" is one of the players who was always extremely underrated by the German public.

Anyway, the debate on midfielders - be it Kroos, Bellingham, Ballack or Schweinsteiger - usually comes down to versatility versus specialization. Kroos had a very specific skill set but he was insanely good at it. He probably worked in less roles than the others but in the role he played for Madrid, he was absolutely fantastic. Doesn't mean I don't rate the others. Bellingham is definitely extraordinary as well. But if I'd design a team from scratch, I'd sacrifice his completeness for a midfielder who controls the match even better and that way creates even more situations for the attackers who are even better at dribbling, passing and finishing than Bellingham. Simply a matter of specialization > versatility for me.
 
Zehner said:
50% of Germany fans don't follow football outside of international tournaments. If you ask them, they'll probably tell you that Lukas Podolski was a better player than Marco Reus, Mesut Özil and Ilkay Gündogan so I don't think that's an opinion one should go by. "Querpass-Toni" is one of the players who was always extremely underrated by the German public.

Anyway, the debate on midfielders - be it Kroos, Bellingham, Ballack or Schweinsteiger - usually comes down to versatility versus specialization. Kroos had a very specific skill set but he was insanely good at it. He probably worked in less roles than the others but in the role he played for Madrid, he was absolutely fantastic. Doesn't mean I don't rate the others. Bellingham is definitely extraordinary as well. But if I'd design a team from scratch, I'd sacrifice his completeness for a midfielder who controls the match even better and that way creates even more situations for the attackers who are even better at dribbling, passing and finishing than Bellingham. Simply a matter of specialization > versatility for me.
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Maybe my brain is hazy - but didn't Kroos start off as a goalscoring #10 with a great eye for the long range piledriver? I remember his breakout season at Leverkusen and he definetely didn;t play the role he later went into.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Maybe my brain is hazy - but didn't Kroos start off as a goalscoring #10 with a great eye for the long range piledriver? I remember his breakout season at Leverkusen and he definetely didn;t play the role he later went into.
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Yes. He played asa LAM for us primarily. His crosses and volleys were top notch. @hasanejaz88 will tell you that he played his best football as a 10 for Bayern as well but I think even back then it was more of a 8/10 hybrid role, maybe like de Bruyne for City for instance, just less risky.

IMO Kroos was never going to be a 10 with the development football has gone through since his breakthrough. He was quite pressing resistant but primarily because of his vision. Don't think he could have operated between the lines as a modern 10 with his agility and acceleration. Kroos wasn't the only one who went down that route. Lots of classic 10s ended up being 8s at that time. Rakitic, Hamsik, Modric, ...
 
caisenma said:
absolute quality player and we'd be lucky to get him in any position, including GK. (hyperbole but you get my idea)
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As a 10 or a SS on < 300k a week - Yes
Anything above 300k - No
CM - No

He is a better version of Mason Mount, and nobody knows what his best position is.
 
Zehner said:
Yes. He played asa LAM for us primarily. His crosses and volleys were top notch. @hasanejaz88 will tell you that he played his best football as a 10 for Bayern as well but I think even back then it was more of a 8/10 hybrid role, maybe like de Bruyne for City for instance, just less risky.

IMO Kroos was never going to be a 10 with the development football has gone through since his breakthrough. He was quite pressing resistant but primarily because of his vision. Don't think he could have operated between the lines as a modern 10 with his agility and acceleration. Kroos wasn't the only one who went down that route. Lots of classic 10s ended up being 8s at that time. Rakitic, Hamsik, Modric, ...
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Yeh this sounds right, I remember back in the day he scored loads of bangers from outside the box in that role.

I think quite a few slow #10's ended up in deeper positions and became great there. Kroos, Modric are the prime examples but even before that there were loads of examples. Scholes is another one. People forget Pirlo started off as a #10 for Inter Milan, Xavi started his Barca career playing in the same position that Deco ended up playing.
 
Zehner said:
Yes. He played asa LAM for us primarily. His crosses and volleys were top notch. @hasanejaz88 will tell you that he played his best football as a 10 for Bayern as well but I think even back then it was more of a 8/10 hybrid role, maybe like de Bruyne for City for instance, just less risky.

IMO Kroos was never going to be a 10 with the development football has gone through since his breakthrough. He was quite pressing resistant but primarily because of his vision. Don't think he could have operated between the lines as a modern 10 with his agility and acceleration. Kroos wasn't the only one who went down that route. Lots of classic 10s ended up being 8s at that time. Rakitic, Hamsik, Modric, ...
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I certainly was going to :lol:
 
Massive performance from him yesterday. Dominated physically and also getting the assist and goal for Madrid's two.

I think he swung from being overrated after his amazing first few months at Madrid with all the late goals to then getting underrated the past 12 months or so while he's been carrying the shoulder injury and Madrid were looking disjointed collectively.

Now that he's fully fit and the team looks more cohesive, I think he can make a push this season to being considered for best midfielder itw conversations.
 
It's crazy how quickly some people turned on him last season. He was at something like 50% but played through the pain with injections before every game for months on end for his team, while also adapting to a relatively new position in a far from great Real Madrid side.

The amount of games he has already played for club and country, and what he has achieved so far, is extraordinary for someone that's still just 22. If he's fit he starts for England all day, every day. The likes of Rogers and Eze, fine players that they are, don't get close to him.
 
For someone who's played in midfield his whole he's rather mediocre at the job. Doesnt quite understand the role all that well even as the most advanced midfielder in a 3. He doesn't seem to understand the importance of doing the simple things well like being available for the ball, knowing when to rotate possession, creating space and using your teammates to punish it.

However in attack he's imperious. He's positioning, movement, ability, physicality and anticipation is out of the top drawer. Really perfect for a false 9 or second striker role. Hopefully for him and Alonso they both realise this soon and he gets used to the best of his ability because he can be an absolute game changer.
 
Mainoo'sComposure said:
For someone who's played in midfield his whole he's rather mediocre at the job. Doesnt quite understand the role all that well even as the most advanced midfielder in a 3. He doesn't seem to understand the importance of doing the simple things well like being available for the ball, knowing when to rotate possession, creating space and using your teammates to punish it.

However in attack he's imperious. He's positioning, movement, ability, physicality and anticipation is out of the top drawer. Really perfect for a false 9 or second striker role. Hopefully for him and Alonso they both realise this soon and he gets used to the best of his ability because he can be an absolute game changer.
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He’s definitely go a knack for arriving late and getting himself into the right positions the right time which is a brilliant quality to have, so I think he’ll continue to get good goal numbers, but I agree I think for a centre mid there are many aspects of his game that are lacking.
 
He played his best games under Ancelotti as a '10', I don't know if Alonso is will to change his shape to bring the best out him.
 
He really reminds me of an apex Aaron Ramsey. Ramsey started his career as a very young central midfielder with exceptional technical ability, who then developed a matching engine, and great physical gifts.

His first great season was 12-13, playing as a defensive midfielder with Cazorla at the ten, where it really felt like he could dominate everything on the pitch. The following season Cazorla got injured, he got moved further forward, and couldn’t stop scoring. From then on, his focused shifted to trying to make a difference in the final third, and his discipline and ability to play as an actual midfielder steadily disappeared, to the point where he ultimately struggled to fit in any midfield role.

Jude is young enough and more than talented enough to find a role, and clearly he’s already had a tonne of success. But I think his ultimate potential as a player is capped if he’s solely played in this free role at Madrid.
 
ThierryHenry said:
He really reminds me of an apex Aaron Ramsey. Ramsey started his career as a very young central midfielder with exceptional technical ability, who then developed a matching engine, and great physical gifts.

His first great season was 12-13, playing as a defensive midfielder with Cazorla at the ten, where it really felt like he could dominate everything on the pitch. The following season Cazorla got injured, he got moved further forward, and couldn’t stop scoring. From then on, his focused shifted to trying to make a difference in the final third, and his discipline and ability to play as an actual midfielder steadily disappeared, to the point where he ultimately struggled to fit in any midfield role.

Jude is young enough and more than talented enough to find a role, and clearly he’s already had a tonne of success. But I think his ultimate potential as a player is capped if he’s solely played in this free role at Madrid.
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Jude has twice the talent Ramsey ever had, c'mon.

But I do agree he needs a position otherwise he'll have the career trajectory of Pogba. He's now being played in the free role so he can arrive in the box, as Madrid's setup is very limited in attack. If Jude or Mbappe don't score, they're literally fecked.

He will come good though, the team just needs 2-3 players and one more year with Xabi.
 
giorno said:
Eh, not really. Since coming back from the surgery he's been amazing this season
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Yea but generally playing weak opposition. La liga has fallen quite a bit, RMs real challenges are in the CL. I don't think RM are currently in the top 5.
 
ThierryHenry said:
He really reminds me of an apex Aaron Ramsey. Ramsey started his career as a very young central midfielder with exceptional technical ability, who then developed a matching engine, and great physical gifts.

His first great season was 12-13, playing as a defensive midfielder with Cazorla at the ten, where it really felt like he could dominate everything on the pitch. The following season Cazorla got injured, he got moved further forward, and couldn’t stop scoring. From then on, his focused shifted to trying to make a difference in the final third, and his discipline and ability to play as an actual midfielder steadily disappeared, to the point where he ultimately struggled to fit in any midfield role.

Jude is young enough and more than talented enough to find a role, and clearly he’s already had a tonne of success. But I think his ultimate potential as a player is capped if he’s solely played in this free role at Madrid.
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I think this is a great point
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Worst mistake madriid ever did in recejt times was abandon the 4-4-2 diamond formation. That had Vini pair up front with another.JB in the hole and 3 CMS of varrying types behind them. I'm comvinced it would suit their current side best.
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It's more or less what we've done in the last few games
 
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