Bring him home?
Thing is, what is his best position? Seems like that is the main issue
Thing is, what is his best position? Seems like that is the main issue
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
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Jude. Palmer should be game changer in chief off the bench.
Both of course. There's no reason England shouldn't try
I'd try both beforehand or maybe in the group stages, but I'd be leaning towards Palmer being on the bench when the World Cup comes.
Maybe it stems from his performances for England, which haven't been as good as that for Madrid? He was disappointing in Euro' 24 and Tuchel has even talked about not having him in the first XI.
For Germany, we've rarely had a player who wasn't great at club and national team level. The one player who you could say didn't replicate club form with national team, because of how great that club form was, was Kroos. Non-Germany fans would not think it's a debate between Kroos and someone like Schweinsteiger/Ballack but for Germany fans (other than @Zehner) it might be one given how they played for the NT.
For England fans, it might that the NT counts for more and what they see is an over hyped player, based on his Madrid performances, who isn't performing the same for England.
50% of Germany fans don't follow football outside of international tournaments. If you ask them, they'll probably tell you that Lukas Podolski was a better player than Marco Reus, Mesut Özil and Ilkay Gündogan so I don't think that's an opinion one should go by. "Querpass-Toni" is one of the players who was always extremely underrated by the German public.
Anyway, the debate on midfielders - be it Kroos, Bellingham, Ballack or Schweinsteiger - usually comes down to versatility versus specialization. Kroos had a very specific skill set but he was insanely good at it. He probably worked in less roles than the others but in the role he played for Madrid, he was absolutely fantastic. Doesn't mean I don't rate the others. Bellingham is definitely extraordinary as well. But if I'd design a team from scratch, I'd sacrifice his completeness for a midfielder who controls the match even better and that way creates even more situations for the attackers who are even better at dribbling, passing and finishing than Bellingham. Simply a matter of specialization > versatility for me.
Maybe my brain is hazy - but didn't Kroos start off as a goalscoring #10 with a great eye for the long range piledriver? I remember his breakout season at Leverkusen and he definetely didn;t play the role he later went into.
Yes. He played asa LAM for us primarily. His crosses and volleys were top notch. @hasanejaz88 will tell you that he played his best football as a 10 for Bayern as well but I think even back then it was more of a 8/10 hybrid role, maybe like de Bruyne for City for instance, just less risky.
IMO Kroos was never going to be a 10 with the development football has gone through since his breakthrough. He was quite pressing resistant but primarily because of his vision. Don't think he could have operated between the lines as a modern 10 with his agility and acceleration. Kroos wasn't the only one who went down that route. Lots of classic 10s ended up being 8s at that time. Rakitic, Hamsik, Modric, ...
As a 10 or a SS on < 300k a week - Yes
Anything above 300k - No
CM - No
He is a better version of Mason Mount, and nobody knows what his best position is.
Yeh this sounds right, I remember back in the day he scored loads of bangers from outside the box in that role.
I think quite a few slow #10's ended up in deeper positions and became great there. Kroos, Modric are the prime examples but even before that there were loads of examples. Scholes is another one. People forget Pirlo started off as a #10 for Inter Milan, Xavi started his Barca career playing in the same position that Deco ended up playing.
Massive performance from him yesterday. Dominated physically and also getting the assist and goal for Madrid's two.
I think he swung from being overrated after his amazing first few months at Madrid with all the late goals to then getting underrated the past 12 months or so while he's been carrying the shoulder injury and Madrid were looking disjointed collectively.
Now that he's fully fit and the team looks more cohesive, I think he can make a push this season to being considered for best midfielder itw conversations.
I think he swung from being overrated after his amazing first few months at Madrid with all the late goals to then getting underrated the past 12 months or so while he's been carrying the shoulder injury and Madrid were looking disjointed collectively.
Now that he's fully fit and the team looks more cohesive, I think he can make a push this season to being considered for best midfielder itw conversations.
It's crazy how quickly some people turned on him last season. He was at something like 50% but played through the pain with injections before every game for months on end for his team, while also adapting to a relatively new position in a far from great Real Madrid side.
The amount of games he has already played for club and country, and what he has achieved so far, is extraordinary for someone that's still just 22. If he's fit he starts for England all day, every day. The likes of Rogers and Eze, fine players that they are, don't get close to him.
The amount of games he has already played for club and country, and what he has achieved so far, is extraordinary for someone that's still just 22. If he's fit he starts for England all day, every day. The likes of Rogers and Eze, fine players that they are, don't get close to him.
Really nothing special today.
Van der Vaart was right all along. Gravenberch is better.
For someone who's played in midfield his whole he's rather mediocre at the job. Doesnt quite understand the role all that well even as the most advanced midfielder in a 3. He doesn't seem to understand the importance of doing the simple things well like being available for the ball, knowing when to rotate possession, creating space and using your teammates to punish it.
However in attack he's imperious. He's positioning, movement, ability, physicality and anticipation is out of the top drawer. Really perfect for a false 9 or second striker role. Hopefully for him and Alonso they both realise this soon and he gets used to the best of his ability because he can be an absolute game changer.
However in attack he's imperious. He's positioning, movement, ability, physicality and anticipation is out of the top drawer. Really perfect for a false 9 or second striker role. Hopefully for him and Alonso they both realise this soon and he gets used to the best of his ability because he can be an absolute game changer.
He’s definitely go a knack for arriving late and getting himself into the right positions the right time which is a brilliant quality to have, so I think he’ll continue to get good goal numbers, but I agree I think for a centre mid there are many aspects of his game that are lacking.
He played his best games under Ancelotti as a '10', I don't know if Alonso is will to change his shape to bring the best out him.
He really reminds me of an apex Aaron Ramsey. Ramsey started his career as a very young central midfielder with exceptional technical ability, who then developed a matching engine, and great physical gifts.
His first great season was 12-13, playing as a defensive midfielder with Cazorla at the ten, where it really felt like he could dominate everything on the pitch. The following season Cazorla got injured, he got moved further forward, and couldn’t stop scoring. From then on, his focused shifted to trying to make a difference in the final third, and his discipline and ability to play as an actual midfielder steadily disappeared, to the point where he ultimately struggled to fit in any midfield role.
Jude is young enough and more than talented enough to find a role, and clearly he’s already had a tonne of success. But I think his ultimate potential as a player is capped if he’s solely played in this free role at Madrid.
His first great season was 12-13, playing as a defensive midfielder with Cazorla at the ten, where it really felt like he could dominate everything on the pitch. The following season Cazorla got injured, he got moved further forward, and couldn’t stop scoring. From then on, his focused shifted to trying to make a difference in the final third, and his discipline and ability to play as an actual midfielder steadily disappeared, to the point where he ultimately struggled to fit in any midfield role.
Jude is young enough and more than talented enough to find a role, and clearly he’s already had a tonne of success. But I think his ultimate potential as a player is capped if he’s solely played in this free role at Madrid.
Mbappe arriving has completely changed things.
Jude has twice the talent Ramsey ever had, c'mon.
But I do agree he needs a position otherwise he'll have the career trajectory of Pogba. He's now being played in the free role so he can arrive in the box, as Madrid's setup is very limited in attack. If Jude or Mbappe don't score, they're literally fecked.
He will come good though, the team just needs 2-3 players and one more year with Xabi.
Eh, not really. Since coming back from the surgery he's been amazing this season
Always felt that he was akin to Dele in playstyle and best position.
Good comparison, IMO (albeit Jude being a bit more physically and technically gifted).
In terms of positioning him further from the goal
Yea but generally playing weak opposition. La liga has fallen quite a bit, RMs real challenges are in the CL. I don't think RM are currently in the top 5.
Yea I can see that.
Worst mistake madrid ever did in recent times was abandon the 4-4-2 diamond formation. That had Vini pair up front with another.JB in the hole and 3 CMS of varrying types behind them. I'm convinced it would suit their current side best.
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I think this is a great point
It's more or less what we've done in the last few games
Yep, a lot more of the season to go.
Yesterday was more pure 4-4-2 than diamond. That is why y'all had so much ball but gave Liverpool way too much joy.
He’s the English mctominay
There hasn't been much talk about him on here in a while. What do people think of him at the minute? Since returning from injury, I think he's been decent.
Played a bit deeper last night and whilst he didn't see as much of the ball as usual, his defensive work was good:
Played a bit deeper last night and whilst he didn't see as much of the ball as usual, his defensive work was good:
He's a very good player and would love to see him at United
Think he played a very good match, didn't see stats but felt like he was very important in defensive actions and winning duels, carrying the ball up the pitch and being able to hold up the ball.
He's an incredibly underrated player if you ask me, based on all the criticism he receives. I am not sure he will ever be able to reach the level he did in his first season at Real continuously, still think that would have been a bit of a purple patch or tactics suiting him to a T but he's a great player.
He's an incredibly underrated player if you ask me, based on all the criticism he receives. I am not sure he will ever be able to reach the level he did in his first season at Real continuously, still think that would have been a bit of a purple patch or tactics suiting him to a T but he's a great player.
He's a very good player.
Our first goal as a club should be to get back to the level where we can realistically have a chance of getting a player like Bellingham.
Watching the football Tues and Wednesday night was a stark reminder that we could have signed a bunch of these players if we weren't such a disaster over the last 12 years.
Watching the football Tues and Wednesday night was a stark reminder that we could have signed a bunch of these players if we weren't such a disaster over the last 12 years.
He's an outstanding player and a shite personality. I would not like him at the club.
Thought he was really good against Bayern. That version of Bellingham I wouldn’t say no to!
I know Madrid have been struggling with his position and where to play him, to me he’s got all the tools to be a top notch CM
I know Madrid have been struggling with his position and where to play him, to me he’s got all the tools to be a top notch CM