Jude Bellingham

Fortitude

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You think a 16 year old kid won’t be tempted to come despite seeing the likes of Greenwood, McTominay, Brandon Williams and James (and other yougsters) being given a first team spot infront of 80k people every week, in the Premier League, with a credible chance of trophies in the future? We are the team to join if you fancy yourself as a teenage sensation, wanting to play in the Premier League. Chelsea’s experiment is over and can now sign players again, Liverpool City and Spurs can’t really offer it. Arsenal perhaps.
This is a strange post given he has resisted us to this point in time and has given no hint we're the club for him.

This thing about him being 16 or 17 and therefore overawed etc. really needs to die a death, too, as he is clearly not, and his handlers are being sensibly pragmatic.

If you've got a pick of clubs, Manchester United, as we are now, is not necessarily the most desirable club to join for a number of reasons and this is the knock on effect of so many years of being, well, whatever you want to call it.
 

iammemphis

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I don’t need to ”think”, lots of reports already saying Jude didn’t fancy it.

I think with a choice between this United & Dortmund, the choice is easy for a 16 yr old.
This is a strange post given he has resisted us to this point in time and has given no hint we're the club for him.

This thing about him being 16 or 17 and therefore overawed etc. really needs to die a death, too, as he is clearly not, and his handlers are being sensibly pragmatic.

If you've got a pick of clubs, Manchester United, as we are now, is not necessarily the most desirable club to join for a number of reasons and this is the knock on effect of so many years of being, well, whatever you want to call it.
Sorry, i used this kid as the example saying “16 year old” but i was actually replying to guy who said “I don’t think that anyone could be convinced to come here”. My point being we are in a strong position to convince younger players to come here with what we have done so far as proof. This Bellingham obviously isn’t falling for it. :lol:
 

Fortitude

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Sorry, i used this kid as the example saying “16 year old” but i was actually replying to guy who said “I don’t think that anyone could be convinced to come here”. My point being we are in a strong position to convince younger players to come here with what we have done so far as proof. This Bellingham obviously isn’t falling for it. :lol:
I think it's a thing to a certain extent; to a certain level of youngster, but when it goes cross that line to the elite level who are wanted by elite clubs, there's a clear reticence and apprehension to commit without exploring each offer thoroughly. This kid, or the one from Lyon, Rayan Cherki, two kids we've gone after (who have both not opted in, as of yet, at least), have no urgency to say "how high?" when we say jump because we are just one of many options and we don't necessarily offer the best package, all things considered.

I just find it a bit strange when people are surprised or act like this level of talent shouldn't have objections to joining us, or at least being protracted and pragmatic in their decision making process.
 

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I think it's a thing to a certain extent; to a certain level of youngster, but when it goes cross that line to the elite level who are wanted by elite clubs, there's a clear reticence and apprehension to commit without exploring each offer thoroughly. This kid, or the one from Lyon, Rayan Cherki, two kids we've gone after (who have both not opted in, as of yet, at least), have no urgency to say "how high?" when we say jump because we are just one of many options and we don't necessarily offer the best package, all things considered.

I just find it a bit strange when people are surprised or act like this level of talent shouldn't have objections to joining us, or at least being protracted and pragmatic in their decision making process.
Any player moving should consider each offer, but we are still a massive draw with a lot of positives.

Which clubs right now have no negatives? Liverpool? but even then players would have to consider both if they would get games, and just how long Klopp can keep the team performing like it currently is.
 

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Any player moving should consider each offer, but we are still a massive draw with a lot of positives.

Which clubs right now have no negatives? Liverpool? but even then players would have to consider both if they would get games, and just how long Klopp can keep the team performing like it currently is.
Point is, people acting indignant when we don't land these talents don't seem to take stock of what we are or why it would be the case.

He may come, he may not; either way, it wouldn't be the surprise it seems to be for posters stating our name and the [amount] money we're putting on the table. Neither are the draws they once were.
 

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Feck me let him move elsewhere first before we question our drawing ability
 
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Sorry, i used this kid as the example saying “16 year old” but i was actually replying to guy who said “I don’t think that anyone could be convinced to come here”. My point being we are in a strong position to convince younger players to come here with what we have done so far as proof. This Bellingham obviously isn’t falling for it. :lol:
I’m still not convinced and I didn’t say I don’t think anyone can be convinced to come here man :lol:

As Fortitude says, we can attract of course, but once we get to a level of talent that other clubs are after, I very much doubt that will look at our manager, our 36% win rate season, and think ”yes, I have to be part of that”.
Just because we’ve played some lads from our academy and given way too many minutes to a lad we signed from the Championship won’t convince them.
 

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Why? It’s a valid debate about whether or not we’d be attractive to any super talents at this point.
We do nothing but sign highly rated youth. Its been our underage strategy for years. Hell Mejbri was chased by all of Europe and he came to us.
 

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We do nothing but sign highly rated youth. Its been our underage strategy for years. Hell Mejbri was chased by all of Europe and he came to us.
I don't get the reason for the defensiveness regarding this topic. It simply is what it is and it's up to us to buck the trend and become a more appealing club should things not work out.

This isn't about absolutes, as there's been no definitive shutdown from the player or his handlers; it's more about having some objectivity and considering how we fit into this equation to both the positive and negative. Burying one's head in the sand doesn't change anything, so it's a worthwhile talking point.
 

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I don't get the reason for the defensiveness regarding this topic. It simply is what it is and it's up to us to buck the trend and become a more appealing club should things not work out.

This isn't about absolutes, as there's been no definitive shutdown from the player or his handlers; it's more about having some objectivity and considering how we fit into this equation to both the positive and negative. Burying one's head in the sand doesn't change anything, so it's a worthwhile talking point.
Because we have signed enough fantastic youth players that having one be indecisive, hasnt even said he wont come for feck sake, shouldnt warrrant a deep discussion.
Are we an attractive prospect fot youth players? Yes. Will we sign every great youth player in Europe? Of course not.
 

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They get them because they actually play them. As great as it sounds for a young player who is considered a top talent to sign for a top club, it's pretty pointless for their career long term. I look at someone like Patrick Roberts who went to City at around 18. It's just been loan after loan. He could have just stayed at Fulham and actually played.
I'm not disagreeing, Dortmund just grind my gears a bit.
 

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Because we have signed enough fantastic youth players that having one be indecisive, hasnt even said he wont come for feck sake, shouldnt warrrant a deep discussion.
Are we an attractive prospect fot youth players? Yes. Will we sign every great youth player in Europe? Of course not.
We've signed youth that are valued at £20m+ at 16?

Cherki and Bellingham are already playing mens football, at the age of 16. It's not the same thing as signing from one academy to another.

But I'm sure you don't want to acknowledge this.
 

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We've signed youth that are valued at £20m+ at 16?

Cherki and Bellingham are already playing mens football, at the age of 16. It's not the same thing as signing from one academy to another.

But I'm sure you don't want to acknowledge this.
Those two are weird examples, as they've not moved anywhere yet anyway and likely won't for a season plus. So is everywhere else not an attractive prospect anymore?
 

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Those two are weird examples, as they've not moved anywhere yet anyway and likely won't for a season plus. So is everywhere else not an attractive prospect anymore?
We've tabled bids for both, which is why they are mentioned.
 

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We've tabled bids for both, which is why they are mentioned.
Yeah, I know, but that's more our approach to the transfer market at the moment - rather than we can't attract top talent anymore. When was the last time 16 yo, playing mens football in europe, moved clubs? That's a genuine question, as I can't think of one.
 
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Yeah, I know, but that's more our approach to the transfer market at the moment - rather than we can't attract top talent anymore. When was the last time 16 yo, playing mens football in europe, moved clubs? That's a genuine question, as I can't think of one.
I think you’ve gotten a little tunnelvision on the 16yr old thing. My original point here was regarding first team talent, so that can be Jude, Wayne Rooney, Haaland, Ronaldo etc etc.

I personally think we’re in a bad place to attract these guys, currenty we’re an even worse state than we were going for De Ligt in the Summer because last Summer we were in a much better position to sell the promise of an exciting future.
 

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I think you’ve gotten a little tunnelvision on the 16yr old thing. My original point here was regarding first team talent, so that can be Jude, Wayne Rooney, Haaland, Ronaldo etc etc.

I personally think we’re in a bad place to attract these guys, currenty we’re an even worse state than we were going for De Ligt in the Summer because last Summer we were in a much better position to sell the promise of an exciting future.
Fair enough if it's a broader point, I don't think Bellingham is a good example, but Haaland probably is - if you take out the Raiola debates.
 

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Yeah, I know, but that's more our approach to the transfer market at the moment - rather than we can't attract top talent anymore. When was the last time 16 yo, playing mens football in europe, moved clubs? That's a genuine question, as I can't think of one.
The crux of this discussion was those thinking it's incredulous that Bellingham, at 16, would turn down an offer of £20m+ from Manchester United, but as you've pointed out, this is moving into category all-out elite talent to even be priced like that at such an age (same as Cherki at Lyon) and how rare these kind of moves occur.

I think the usual precedent is to tap up kids from academies and then pay the tribunal fee, but this level of talent supersedes that beings as the handlers are in no rush, not fearful of a single club dropping interest and are prepared to do right by the club he is playing for, thus having him sign professional forms there so they get a transfer fee.

If I'm not mistaken, Bellingham and Cherki are players that mark us venturing into a new area of the market, the one Real Madrid have been snapping up the very best touted talent from (Ødegaard, Vinicius, Rodrygo etc.) these past few years.

It's a more challenging market because concrete, tangible offers at a professional level are being put down and more than just navigation through an academy to sell to the player and handlers.

So to come full circle, whether we can attract talent in this particular bracket, really remains to be seen, but it won't be the shock some are making out if we can't.
 

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The crux of this discussion was those thinking it's incredulous that Bellingham, at 16, would turn down an offer of £20m+ from Manchester United, but as you've pointed out, this is moving into category all-out elite talent to even be priced like that at such an age (same as Cherki at Lyon) and how rare these kind of moves occur.

I think the usual precedent is to tap up kids from academies and then pay the tribunal fee, but this level of talent supersedes that beings as the handlers are in no rush, not fearful of a single club dropping interest and are prepared to do right by the club he is playing for, thus having him sign professional forms there so they get a transfer fee.

If I'm not mistaken, Bellingham and Cherki are players that mark us venturing into a new area of the market, the one Real Madrid have been snapping up the very best touted talent from (Ødegaard, Vinicius, Rodrygo etc.) these past few years.

It's a more challenging market because concrete, tangible offers at a professional level are being put down and more than just navigation through an academy to sell to the player and handlers.

So to come full circle, whether we can attract talent in this particular bracket, really remains to be seen, but it won't be the shock some are making out if we can't.
Yeah, I agree. Especially with this closing part.
 

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Yeah, I agree. Especially with this closing part.
Tbh, it would be a real statement if we can break into that market. It is wrought with danger/risk, but pursuing the literal hottest talent in that bracket, even if you get 2 out of 5 to full potential, would be remarkably good business. That same £20m-£30m is peanuts in the adult game and won't land you even Josh King.

A lot of our actions these past few years have been shockingly bad, but this avenue is one I can fully get behind.
 

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Point is, people acting indignant when we don't land these talents don't seem to take stock of what we are or why it would be the case.

He may come, he may not; either way, it wouldn't be the surprise it seems to be for posters stating our name and the [amount] money we're putting on the table. Neither are the draws they once were.
Very true. Yes we can offer a lot, but so can other clubs.
 

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Tbh, it would be a real statement if we can break into that market. It is wrought with danger/risk, but pursuing the literal hottest talent in that bracket, even if you get 2 out of 5 to full potential, would be remarkably good business. That same £20m-£30m is peanuts in the adult game and won't land you even Josh King.

A lot of our actions these past few years have been shockingly bad, but this avenue is one I can fully get behind.
Yeah, I think we seem to have a much better eye for future talents than we do for established signings as well.
 

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We've signed youth that are valued at £20m+ at 16?

Cherki and Bellingham are already playing mens football, at the age of 16. It's not the same thing as signing from one academy to another.

But I'm sure you don't want to acknowledge this.
We literally signed one of the highest rated 16 year olds on the planet. Chekri wasnt even playing in the first team when we approached him. Mejbri woud have cost a lot nore if not for his contract dispute
Its unnecessay moving of the goalposts to create a discussion that doesnt make sense.
We cant attract bright young prospects if you ignore the prospects we have and insert these other players in a group with a ham fisted critetia.
 

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We literally signed one of the highest rated 16 year olds on the planet. Chekri wasnt even playing in the first team when we approached him. Mejbri woud have cost a lot nore if not for his contract dispute
Its unnecessay moving of the goalposts to create a discussion that doesnt make sense.
We cant attract bright young prospects if you ignore the prospects we have and insert these other players in a group with a ham fisted critetia.
You didn't actually answer my question and have instead gone off on a tangent that has no argument from me. As I wrote in subsequent posts, moving into this territory is another ball game at a much higher stake.

re. Cherki, he is the hottest talent in his age range in the world; the situation is ongoing with every top club in the world chasing him.
 

Rampant Red Rodriguez

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The lad obviously is learning, but will it be wise to hit up the biggest club in the league right now?. With the Pogba saga going on and summer squad adjustments, it might be best if the kid waits until the end of summer if he even was to come here.

And another question is if he will be playing much at such a young age, in the PL i mean. He doesn't want to be on the bench for us if he's playing regularly with Birmingham which is still tough adult level football.
 

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You didn't actually answer my question and have instead gone off on a tangent that has no argument from me. As I wrote in subsequent posts, moving into this territory is another ball game at a much higher stake.

re. Cherki, he is the hottest talent in his age range in the world; the situation is ongoing with every top club in the world chasing him.
And we were after him before he made his debut and value shot up.it is our strategy to get these players before they cost 100m plus. Im sute if Mejbri stayed at Monaco he would be many millions plus by now, would waiting for him and signing him somehow prove sonething more?
Our youth set up does nothing but sign sought after wonderkids.
I dont know what your poibt rrally is because your goalposts are laughably narrow do letd wait and see where this player actually goes to before we claim we arent up to the task, shall we?
We have beaten many top sides to youth talents, trying to pretend otherwise is moronic quite frankly.
 

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Would it be possible to sign him in the summer and loan him back for a year?
 

BenitoSTARR

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Would it be possible to sign him in the summer and loan him back for a year?
I can’t see why not but Birmingham’s playstyle is very different to ours. Obviously any men’s football experience is going to help but I do worry about the style of play he’ll be surrounded by.
 

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I can’t see why not but Birmingham’s playstyle is very different to ours. Obviously any men’s football experience is going to help but I do worry about the style of play he’ll be surrounded by.
Probably just useful from a 'learning to deal with the physicality of men's football' type thing than developing to a certain play style. He's obviously playing right now and will continue to develop. I think another year or two of learning to handle the brutal constantly-getting-kicked nature of the Championship would be good.

Of course, whether he ends up here or not in the first place is a bigger issue. Watching him now, he's just so confident whenever he gets the ball - so impressive for 16yo.
 

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I can’t see why not but Birmingham’s playstyle is very different to ours. Obviously any men’s football experience is going to help but I do worry about the style of play he’ll be surrounded by.
Yes it could be an issue but it could also be a benefit that he learns different ways to play - we may have many different managers in the next few years :D
 

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Yes it could be an issue but it could also be a benefit that he learns different ways to play - we may have many different managers in the next few years :D
Not so sure that Birmingham is ever going to be a style any United manager should or will replicate haha
Probably just useful from a 'learning to deal with the physicality of men's football' type thing than developing to a certain play style. He's obviously playing right now and will continue to develop. I think another year or two of learning to handle the brutal constantly-getting-kicked nature of the Championship would be good.

Of course, whether he ends up here or not in the first place is a bigger issue. Watching him now, he's just so confident whenever he gets the ball - so impressive for 16yo.
I do think there are better clubs to learn from but game time and experience of men’s football are needed in the right amounts. He’s not ready for United yet but at 16 he seems competent.
 

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Just 'assisted' an own goal with a cross to help Brum go 2-1 up away to the dipper side of Bristol.