Jude Bellingham

[davidmichael]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-united-bellingham-haaland-transfer-21590619

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-liverpool-man-city-jude-bellingham-dortmund/

Won’t happen til next summer but hopefully we make Bellingham our number one target for midfield, I’d love us to move Matic and Fred on and bring in Bellingham and Rice but that’s more dream than likelihood.

 

[RDCR07]

He doesn’t have a release clause. If we go to Dortmund now they will demand £200m. Also use better sources than the Sun if you want to post a transfer story. /Thread.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Yeah the sun is never really a true source. But every time I hear this guys name I wish we sign him. His contract doesn't expire till 2025 with a two year extension- correct? I imagine thats when he'll move. Agree that Dortmund will ask for some insane fee until then.

 

[devilish]

Lets see if Sancho settles down first. We've been buying Dortmund 'star' players for quite some time now and yet none of them looked half good with us at least not yet.

 

[babablue]

How much do you all think is a fair price for him? And how much do you think the club would be happy to pay? Looking at it from the perspective of the club, would you be happy to pay 2-3x the price for a player that turned you down, especially after the red carpet treatment that was rolled out?

 

[Baneofthegame]

How much do you all think is a fair price for him? And how much do you think the club would be happy to pay? Looking at it from the perspective of the club, would you be happy to pay 2-3x the price for a player that turned you down, especially after the red carpet treatment that was rolled out?

Get him on a free when his contract runs out would be super.

 

[babablue]

Get him on a free when his contract runs out would be super.

That would be ideal, but we might not have that luxury with the performances he's putting in, and with city and liverpool supposedly interested.

 

[Highfather_24]

Lets see if Sancho settles down first. We've been buying Dortmund 'star' players for quite some time now and yet none of them looked half good with us at least not yet.

Yep.

 

[stefan92]

How much do you all think is a fair price for him? And how much do you think the club would be happy to pay? Looking at it from the perspective of the club, would you be happy to pay 2-3x the price for a player that turned you down, especially after the red carpet treatment that was rolled out?

Don't know what red carpet you are talking about. Dortmund allegedly offered higher wages and more playing time then United, so it is no surprise that he went there. That is what counts in the end for the players, not if a club legend is showing him the stadium.

 

[redshaw]

It's difficult to believe there's no clause of some kind especially in this climate with clubs struggling. Think we'll hear more in a year or two. If he fancies Liverpool and the Kop singing Hey Jude then he'll need to sell for a lower fee.

 

[gajender]

It's difficult to believe there's no clause of some kind especially in this climate with clubs struggling. Think we'll hear more in a year or two. If he fancies Liverpool and the Kop singing Hey Jude then he'll need to sell for a lower fee.

Why would a Club put a Clause which could end up limiting their own earning potential especially in this Climate doesn't make sense, unless player is insistent upon it for moving there like Haaland.

 

[redshaw]

Why would a Club put a Clause which could end up limiting their own earning potential especially in this Climate doesn't make sense, unless player is insistent upon it for moving there like Haaland.

You have your answer, like Haaland. A player would put a clause in to not limit his potential of clubs to move to.

Clubs can afford wages, they can't afford 150m fee. Also lower transfer fees can mean more in wages and signing on fees for the player, actually increasing earning potential.

 

[Robbie Boy]

No thanks.

 

[Sphaero]

You have your answer, like Haaland. A player would put a clause in to not limit his potential of clubs to move to.

Clubs can afford wages, they can't afford 150m fee. Also lower transfer fees can mean more in wages and signing on fees for the player, actually increasing earning potential.

Haaland was in a far, far stronger negotiation position than Bellingham when we signed him. Literally half of the European elite were after him, he already rampaged through the CL with Salzburg and we were in a dire need of a striker that would directly help. This made Dortmund move away from their established stance of not accepting release clauses. Bellingham might have been a top talent (which is why we paid 20+ Mil. € for him), but was still a 16 year old from a Championship side. Make no mistake, the step up from Birmingham to Dortmund was a large one. There is no indication that Bellingham has a release clause in his contract.

Even top talents can not demand everything. Dortmund offers regular CL football, chances for domestic silver ware, competive wages in the talent bracket, a strong history of developing top players from young age and a readiness for compromise for a certain price after a certain time. If they want a release clause on top of that, they can go to a club belonging to a tier below that.

I expect Bellinghams tenure at Dortmund to last at least as long as Sanchos (4 seasons), maybe even a year more than that. I would also be surprised if he does not renew his contract for a slightly longer one in the future as his performances and potential will likely demand a pay raise closer to the clubs top earners. That contract might include a similar gentleman agreement as what existed between Sancho and Dortmund.

Bellingham won´t leave until at least 2023 with the likelier point in time being 2024.

 

[Lash]

I would love him, but feck filling Dortmund's pockets yet again.

 

[Damien]

Bellingham moving is not happening until at least 2023. If he renews his contract in that time it could be 2024.

As for Liverpool, here are Rummenigge's comments on a potential Liverpool approach for Haaland:

I don’t think he’s going to Liverpool. I know the owner very well and he is not known for opening the (money) box.”

FSG aren't going to pay the 100M+ required for Bellingham in two years time.

 

[Red_toad]

Lets see if Sancho settles down first. We've been buying Dortmund 'star' players for quite some time now and yet none of them looked half good with us at least not yet.

Maybe we need to target their managers and coaches first

 

[redshaw]

Haaland was in a far, far stronger negotiation position than Bellingham when we signed him. Literally half of the European elite were after him, he already rampaged through the CL with Salzburg and we were in a dire need of a striker that would directly help. This made Dortmund move away from their established stance of not accepting release clauses. Bellingham might have been a top talent (which is why we paid 20+ Mil. € for him), but was still a 16 year old from a Championship side. Make no mistake, the step up from Birmingham to Dortmund was a large one. There is no indication that Bellingham has a release clause in his contract.

Even top talents can not demand everything. Dortmund offers regular CL football, chances for domestic silver ware, competive wages in the talent bracket, a strong history of developing top players from young age and a readiness for compromise for a certain price after a certain time. If they want a release clause on top of that, they can go to a club belonging to a tier below that.

I expect Bellinghams tenure at Dortmund to last at least as long as Sanchos (4 seasons), maybe even a year more than that. I would also be surprised if he does not renew his contract for a slightly longer one in the future as his performances and potential will likely demand a pay raise closer to the clubs top earners. That contract might include a similar gentleman agreement as what existed between Sancho and Dortmund.

Bellingham won´t leave until at least 2023 with the likelier point in time being 2024.

Well I didn't say a release clause, a clause can be many things and I should've put some type of clause/agreement to avoid confusion. Depends if he's gone there for games and development and not wanting to be priced out of a move to only an oil club which I think is the case but perhaps he sees himself there a longer while. I expect clauses to become more common in the game, more so with out of the ordinary moves that I would put Sancho, Jude and Haaland in to varying degrees.

 

[slyadams]

Get him on a free when his contract runs out would be super.

I don't see that happening. If his contract starts to run low they'll try to move him on, its their model. Of course Bellingham could just run it down to get a move, but if he were to move with say 2 years left, he would probably increase his wages 5 or 6 fold, that's hard to turn down.

 

[devilish]

Maybe we need to target their managers and coaches first

Kagawa was SAF's signing, Mkhitaryan was Mourinho's signing while Jadon was Ole's signing. All of them came with a huge reputation, ridiculous stats and all struggled in the EPL (it's too early for Jadon to say that). Maybe we need to take that in account next Dortmund asks 120m for this new phenomenon of theirs whose got 100 goals and 100 assists in the farmers league

 

[babablue]

Don't know what red carpet you are talking about. Dortmund allegedly offered higher wages and more playing time then United, so it is no surprise that he went there. That is what counts in the end for the players, not if a club legend is showing him the stadium.

Please don't do the BDL thing? The focus of my question is what a fair price is, and what the club would be willing to pay. What Dortmund offered is irrelevant.

 

[Mickson]

I'm sure he's up to playing in the UEFA Youth League if he comes next season.

 

[Bebestation]

I personally don't see a rush in signing him. A quality player but doesn't offer something that we lack exactly and we need right now this instant.

I'd sell Fred and replace him with Bellingham long term but I don't see that happening next season.

First get a proper CDM, possibly even 2 (one a ball winner and one a DLP), a RWB type player, get ready to fight for Haaland - then we can think about Bellingham the following year.

 

[stefan92]

Please don't do the BDL thing? The focus of my question is what a fair price is, and what the club would be willing to pay. What Dortmund offered is irrelevant.

Just wondered about the red carpet thing, as I simply don't see United did that. And of corse the offer Dortmund made is needed as context for United's offer?

 

[Sandikan]

Must not buy.
I don't think I could deal with us constantly singing that dreadful Beatles anthem, with an even more horrible link to his surname.

"Hey Jude...and make it Bell-inghammmm"

 

[sun_tzu]

Kagawa was SAF's signing, Mkhitaryan was Mourinho's signing while Jadon was Ole's signing. All of them came with a huge reputation, ridiculous stats and all struggled in the EPL (it's too early for Jadon to say that). Maybe we need to take that in account next Dortmund asks 120m for this new phenomenon of theirs whose got 100 goals and 100 assists in the farmers league

SAF was a fan of lewendowskis wasnt he... signed RVP instead in the end... If only we had ended up with that farmers league goal hanger!

 

[devilish]

SAF was a fan of lewendowskis wasnt he... signed RVP instead in the end... If only we had ended up with that farmers league goal hanger!

When I was young the Serie A was, by far, the best league in the world. I saw top top strikers such as Ian Rush, Denis Bergkamp and Darko Pancev going there and make a total fool of themselves. Serie A top scorers would struggle to beat the 20 goal mark. Vialli (19 goals in 1990-1991), Van Basten (19 goals in 1989-1990), Maradona (15 goals in 1987-1988) etc. These were exceptional players, who could walk in any league and score 30-40 goals easy but who simply couldn't score more in a defensive league brimming with some of the finest defenders in the world.

The EPL is not there yet. Even the likes of Maguire and Van Dijk would pale in comparison to the likes of Baresi, Maldini and Vierchowod. However its becoming increasingly defensive every year. Also like the Serie A, there's no easy matches in the EPL anymore. For example can you imagine Sancho scoring 4 goals against Chelsea spread out in 2 games within 5 days? That's what he did against RB Leipzig last season. There's no Paderborn and Dusseldorf to score hat-tricks against either. Which explains why Dortmund's special players with their unreal goals-assists stats tend to look very ordinary once they wear the red shirt.

 

[Zehner]

When I was young the Serie A was, by far, the best league in the world. I saw top top strikers such as Ian Rush, Denis Bergkamp and Darko Pancev going there and make a total fool of themselves. Serie A top scorers would struggle to beat the 20 goal mark. Vialli (19 goals in 1990-1991), Van Basten (19 goals in 1989-1990), Maradona (15 goals in 1987-1988) etc. These were exceptional players, who could walk in any league and score 30-40 goals easy but who simply couldn't score more in a defensive league brimming with some of the finest defenders in the world.

The EPL is not there yet. Even the likes of Maguire and Van Dijk would pale in comparison to the likes of Baresi, Maldini and Vierchowod. However its becoming increasingly defensive every year. Also like the Serie A, there's no easy matches in the EPL anymore. For example can you imagine Sancho scoring 4 goals against Chelsea spread out in 2 games within 5 days? That's what he did against RB Leipzig last season. There's no Paderborn and Dusseldorf to score hat-tricks against either. Which explains why Dortmund's special players with their unreal goals-assists stats tend to look very ordinary once they wear the red shirt.

It has much more to do with the setup. German clubs approach football very differently to English clubs and United and Dortmund are probably the two prototypes of it. Probably out of necessity due to the lack of financial backing, there's a much bigger emphasis on the collective over here. Clear patterns of play, systems, synergies, etc. Every player has his role and the coach tries to setup in a way that brings players constantly in situations in which they can play out their strengths and cover their weaknesses.

Of course players will generally score less in a competition that is stronger on average but players like Sancho have also had exceptional games against top class opponent's like Bayern or PSG. The real transition is the change of approaches - especially from the Bundesliga to United which is easily the club with the biggest emphasis on individual class over collective among the English top 6.

 

[devilish]

It has much more to do with the setup. German clubs approach football very differently to English clubs and United and Dortmund are probably the two prototypes of it. Probably out of necessity due to the lack of financial backing, there's a much bigger emphasis on the collective over here. Clear patterns of play, systems, synergies, etc. Every player has his role and the coach tries to setup in a way that brings players constantly in situations in which they can play out their strengths and cover their weaknesses.

Of course players will generally score less in a competition that is stronger on average but players like Sancho have also had exceptional games against top class opponent's like Bayern or PSG. The real transition is the change of approaches - especially from the Bundesliga to United which is easily the club with the biggest emphasis on individual class over collective among the English top 6.

There's a difference between having 4-5 truly tough fixtures every year with barely any pressure whatsoever in doing well in them and having to face tough fixtures 1-3 times a week with high stakes at every single game.

I also had a quick look at his goals (soccerbase). Sancho had 3 goals against top quality opposition. 1 was vs A Madrid in 2018, there was a goal against Bayern in 2019 and another goal vs Barcelona.

 

[marktan]

I don't think we need Bellingham at all, he's a box to box that doesn't really excel at anything. I personally rate Mctominay higher as of now. That said he is young, so hopefully he improves, but he's nowhere near ready to play in our midfield currently.

It has much more to do with the setup. German clubs approach football very differently to English clubs and United and Dortmund are probably the two prototypes of it. Probably out of necessity due to the lack of financial backing, there's a much bigger emphasis on the collective over here. Clear patterns of play, systems, synergies, etc. Every player has his role and the coach tries to setup in a way that brings players constantly in situations in which they can play out their strengths and cover their weaknesses.

Of course players will generally score less in a competition that is stronger on average but players like Sancho have also had exceptional games against top class opponent's like Bayern or PSG. The real transition is the change of approaches - especially from the Bundesliga to United which is easily the club with the biggest emphasis on individual class over collective among the English top 6.

The bigger imo issue is space. Teams in the league sit back against United, whereas watching Sancho's goals and assists in the Bundesliga there was a lot more space. United don't have a player that can dribble and stretch defences, so teams just sit back and watch everything get played in front of them. Of course patterns of play does matter but there's only so many plays you can make when your 4 attackers and fullback are being marked by 8 players. It's why we tend to do better against the likes of City.

 

[elnorte]

No thanks.

Why?

If he can do even half as well as Sancho has done since he arrived then we'll be on to a real winner.

 

[Zehner]

There's a difference between having 4-5 truly tough fixtures every year with barely any pressure whatsoever in doing well in them and having to face tough fixtures 1-3 times a week with high stakes at every single game.

I also had a quick look at his goals (soccerbase). Sancho had 3 goals against top quality opposition. 1 was vs A Madrid in 2018, there was a goal against Bayern in 2019 and another goal vs Barcelona.

Sancho isn't about goals though. He can have great games without showing up on the scorer sheet. Here's one example against PSG:

I don't think we need Bellingham at all, he's a box to box that doesn't really excel at anything. I personally rate Mctominay higher as of now. That said he is young, so hopefully he improves, but he's nowhere near ready to play in our midfield currently.



The bigger imo issue is space. Teams in the league sit back against United, whereas watching Sancho's goals and assists in the Bundesliga there was a lot more space. United don't have a player that can dribble and stretch defences, so teams just sit back and watch everything get played in front of them. Of course patterns of play does matter but there's only so many plays you can make when your 4 attackers and fullback are being marked by 8 players. It's why we tend to do better against the likes of City.

No offense but you don't really seem to watch Bundesliga, then. I for one think that many lower table EPL clubs are tactically very outdated because they surrender the midfield all the time. In the Bundesliga, teams try to keep you away from their own goal and pressure intensely in the midfield. Space is very tight there and you have almost no time on the ball whereas in the EPL, you often see the opposite.

Sancho e. g. loves deep sitting opponents. He's not the fast but he's incredibly good between the lines and in finding inventive solutions to unlock deep defenses. Maybe you should not only watch his scorers but also his other highlights, they capture much better what kind of player he is.

Watch the assist at 1:40 for instance:


Such plays are what makes him special. Some silky moves, a quick body feint, not even to get past the play but maybe just to set him on the wrong foot so that he can play a fast one two and attack the space created by this. He took out four or five players within a few square meters that way.

 

[Red the Bear]

I can quite put down his role in a midfield seems to be developing in to a nice nifty player though

One to look for

 

[marktan]

Sancho isn't about goals though. He can have great games without showing up on the scorer sheet. Here's one example against PSG:




No offense but you don't really seem to watch Bundesliga, then. I for one think that many lower table EPL clubs are tactically very outdated because they surrender the midfield all the time. In the Bundesliga, teams try to keep you away from their own goal and pressure intensely in the midfield. Space is very tight there and you have almost no time on the ball whereas in the EPL, you often see the opposite.

Sancho e. g. loves deep sitting opponents. He's not the fast but he's incredibly good between the lines and in finding inventive solutions to unlock deep defenses. Maybe you should not only watch his scorers but also his other highlights, they capture much better what kind of player he is.

Watch the assist at 1:40 for instance:


Such plays are what makes him special. Some silky moves, a quick body feint, not even to get past the play but maybe just to set him on the wrong foot so that he can play a fast one two and attack the space created by this. He took out four or five players within a few square meters that way.

Not necessarily true, our most common CM pairing is Fred and Mctominay precisely because they're very busy in midfield. Teams sit back and then break very fast. It's the style of teams like Liverpool and Atletico but with crapper players. It's why teams like Burnley we struggle against, they shut up shop and then manage to nick a goal or two on the counter. Also why a team like City routinely puts Burnley to the sword, they have the players to break down tight defences. The alternative for those teams is to try go toe-to-toe with us but we easily beat teams like Leeds when they do that.

Sancho don't get me wrong is a good player, capable of moments of magic. But he has been helped by the space and time he got in Bundesliga. His biggest limitation for us will be the fact he doesn't have pace, which means defenders will get tight on him and force him to make the pass. As you've said before our patterns of play aren't great, that coupled with the lack of space negates a lot of Sancho's game. Anyway let's not derail this thread, we'll see how Sancho gets on throughout the season.

 

[redrobed]

Wouldn’t mind a bit of this at all. No way the Glazers fork up the money required though - he’s already gone for the money once, imagine he’ll end up at City or Chelsea.

 

[Varun1]

Will be taking over from KDB at City in a few years.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Will be taking over from KDB at City in a few years.

Hopefully they’ll be mid table after Pep fecks off

 

[Devil may care]

He's a cracking talent, I think he'll be one of the top transfer targets for Europe's biggest clubs in summer 2023.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Also:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/report-names-seven-stars-man-utd-sell-fund-stunning-166m-double-raid

Seems, sort of plausible, unfortunately, there's an Express reference, which rather spoils it.

 

[Red_toad]

Also:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/report-names-seven-stars-man-utd-sell-fund-stunning-166m-double-raid

Seems, sort of plausible, unfortunately, there's an Express reference, which rather spoils it.

So we sell the players we couldn't get rid of in the summer in January. Sounds very plausible white text...