Jude Bellingham

Remember the geese

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A lot of teams don't want specialists as the 8 midfielders in a 4-3-3, they want an all rounder at one of those positions. Players who have the technical ability to play slick possession football, who can contribute in the final third, but also have the physical qualities to battle up and down the pitch against sides that will press you all day and try to beat you just by winning duels and second balls. Think about players like Henderson, Gundogan, or the current incarnation of Xhaka. Bellingham's potential - which he might not reach, but in theory - is to be the elite version of that kind of player.
An elite version of Gundogan? I don't think Bellingham has that kind of potential. I don't even know who that player would be because Gundogan is pretty damn elite himself.
 

LordSpud

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We need a striker more anyway. Unless Ten Hag is thinking of actually developing Maguire into a 9!!
 

whitbyviking

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Allegedly Liverpool now favourites to sign him? I don't see it personally, their squad needs major surgery and can't imagine they'd throw £130m at him, which would be a massive chunk of their normal expenditure.

His transfer will be to City or Chelsea. The lure of London might be enough to tempt him if they qualify for the Champions League.
 

AnotherLondonManc

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Allegedly Liverpool now favourites to sign him? I don't see it personally, their squad needs major surgery and can't imagine they'd throw £130m at him, which would be a massive chunk of their normal expenditure.

His transfer will be to City or Chelsea. The lure of London might be enough to tempt him if they qualify for the Champions League.
Don't see Chelsea going in for him, he's not what they need at all. They already have Mount and Gallagher for the ball carrying, box to box role.

Chelsea seem more nailed on to get Rice, who would be more of a Kante or Jorginho replacement, which should be a priority for them.

Race for Bellingham looks to be between us, Real, and City. I also don't think Liverpool would be prepared to pay the fee required for him.
 

big_jeffstar

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So after being apparently wowed by Uniteds interest in him from such a young age.. being almost about to sign for us.. before choosing Dortmund.. now apparently he’s got a close relationship with Liverpool?… how exactly??
im pretty sure that “relationship” will count for precisely f.a once the money clubs start making bids and his agent gets involved
 

zenith

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I'm now very unsure about Dortmund players. They look great in a system but the jump from Bundesliga seems oddly difficult for players. In contrast even the Dutch league players tend to adjust better. Not sure why
 

Remember the geese

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I'm now very unsure about Dortmund players. They look great in a system but the jump from Bundesliga seems oddly difficult for players. In contrast even the Dutch league players tend to adjust better. Not sure why
I don't think it's anything to do with the club. Haaland isn't doing too badly.
 

McTerminator

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I'm now very unsure about Dortmund players. They look great in a system but the jump from Bundesliga seems oddly difficult for players. In contrast even the Dutch league players tend to adjust better. Not sure why
Agreed, people really underestimate this aspect of it. I mean, that Haaland kid is really struggling, likewise Gundogan before him…
 

zenith

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Silly to compare haaland to other players like Sancho or kagawa who depend on a system. Haaland is a goal scorer on a chance creating machine like city. Bellingham is a different kind of player altogether. It needs more common sense in terms of his fitment in the team rather just just buying blindly based on need and talent.

There could be many other players out there who may be a better fit for us, rather than just salivating over the flavor of the season
 

BerryBerryShrew

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My prediction is that an English club will sign him as opposed to Real.

I'd imagine that City will be frontrunners, not only because they will pay astronomical money under the table, but also because they already have a fantastic team so they can afford to spend big on one player every year.

We have major priorities elsewhere (Striker, GK, RB), we have a hard on for FdJ who would be half the price and a better fit, and we have Hannibal doing well on loan and Mainoo looking fantastic at underage level.

Liverpool need to sign half a new team. They need to be picking up players in the £20-30m market rather than signing just one big name.

Chelsea are shite. Their only WC player is an injury prone RB. He'd be stupid to go there.
 

Powderfinger

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An elite version of Gundogan? I don't think Bellingham has that kind of potential. I don't even know who that player would be because Gundogan is pretty damn elite himself.
Thats why clubs are willing to pay over 100m for him. You might disagree with the logic, but that’s the reasoning.
 

SAFMUTD

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I'm now very unsure about Dortmund players. They look great in a system but the jump from Bundesliga seems oddly difficult for players. In contrast even the Dutch league players tend to adjust better. Not sure why
It only happens when they come to this part of Manchester. Kawaga, Sancho, Mhikitaryan all below what was expected.

Gundogan and Haaland are doing pretty great with City.
 

hellhunter

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It only happens when they come to this part of Manchester. Kawaga, Sancho, Mhikitaryan all below what was expected.

Gundogan and Haaland are doing pretty great with City.
It goes even further than this, I think City are the only club that can make Dortmund players work.
 

SAFMUTD

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It goes even further than this, I think City are the only club that can make Dortmund players work.
Pulisic to Chelsea has been also a failure, but Aubameyang was pretty solid for arsenal. A hit I would say. Sokratis was shit, but he was always shit even at Dortmund no surprise there.
 

pascell

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Allegedly Liverpool now favourites to sign him? I don't see it personally, their squad needs major surgery and can't imagine they'd throw £130m at him, which would be a massive chunk of their normal expenditure.

His transfer will be to City or Chelsea. The lure of London might be enough to tempt him if they qualify for the Champions League.
Liverpool have been talking to him for the past 18 months, they've been favourites from the start.
So after being apparently wowed by Uniteds interest in him from such a young age.. being almost about to sign for us.. before choosing Dortmund.. now apparently he’s got a close relationship with Liverpool?… how exactly??
im pretty sure that “relationship” will count for precisely f.a once the money clubs start making bids and his agent gets involved
Just because we gave a good account of ourselves doesn't mean the player has pledged his allegiance to us, that's not how it works.
 

hellhunter

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Pulisic to Chelsea has been also a failure, but Aubameyang was pretty solid for arsenal. A hit I would say. Sokratis was shit, but he was always shit even at Dortmund no surprise there.
Yeah was also thinking Sahin for Liverpool.

Bayern also really only made Lewandowski work, but Götze and Hummels haven't exactly been failures
 
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El Jefe

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Bellingham had the maturity to play CM that's the difference between him and other prospects. Its incredibly hard to breakthrough in midfield as a teenager, I'd say it's the hardest position along with goalkeeper.

Hannibal could never have the same impact as Bellingham if he followed the same route because Hannibal is extremely immature as a player particularly when it comes to temperament and you saw a lot of that at youth level.

It's easier for players like Mctominay to come through in midfield than more creative types like Pereira. Midfield is about getting the basics right first then any quality added is a bonus. Bellingham had all the intangibles plus the quality to play central midfield at such an early age, that is incredibly rare and not something that can easily be replicated.
 

do.ob

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Pulisic to Chelsea has been also a failure, but Aubameyang was pretty solid for arsenal. A hit I would say. Sokratis was shit, but he was always shit even at Dortmund no surprise there.


:thinking:
 

big_jeffstar

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Liverpool have been talking to him for the past 18 months, they've been favourites from the start.

Just because we gave a good account of ourselves doesn't mean the player has pledged his allegiance to us, that's not how it works.
I’m not saying he’s pledged his allegiance to us, I think it’s all just paper talk.. they make it up as they go along to gain clicks, next week it’ll be someone else
 

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Don’t want him. Modern football has specialised players in midfield now. If we had him in our team do we drop Casemiro? No. Has he got the passing range and ability to dictate play from deep like Eriksen? No and even if he had it’s a disciplined role that takes away a lot of what Jude is good at. He isn’t a 10 so that’s dead in the water. You kind of see how muted he is for England when he has those specialists around him
I have a feeling we would be talking about getting the proper midfielder in to get the best out of him ala Pogba if he joined us.
He’s who you play instead of Bruno.
 

Boavista

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At best they paid a lot of money for a 20 year old who didn't develop much, at worst they bought an expensive dud
I think it's somewhat comparable to Arsenal and Xhaka. Few people would call him a successful signing over most his time there until recently, but the disappointment is mainly that he didn't develop much. He kind of just stayed the same player he was at Gladbach, good and bad sides. That's ok for a young player because it seems promising but at some point you expect more

At least Xhaka has been good enough to be a constant in that Arsenal side, although mostly during a disappointing phase for the club. Pulisic is either injured, or the same inconsistent player he was back then
 

do.ob

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At best they paid a lot of money for a 20 year old who didn't develop much, at worst they bought an expensive dud
I don't think it's all of the sudden. Imo his biggest quality has been that he was extremely mature at a very young age but I don't think there's necessarily a world class talent beneath that. So naturally (as becoming mature is an automatic part of most player's development) that head start matters less and less and he begins to look more ordinary.

Put a talented attacker in Dortmund's team and he's bound to look good and pick up a couple of goals/assists here and there. Add to the mix that he's from the US who are desperate for a decent footballer and let him play a lot of games against 3rd rate opposition and voila you have some off the charts hype going.



See that's what I mean, that video is like 2/3 scenes from the NT and the Dortmund part is mostly pre-season friendlies and cup minnows. Matches like that don't make you a big player. Jozy Altidore scored over 40 goals for the US.
I'm not saying that Pulisic is devoid of talent btw, he's rapid, he's got very neat technique and clean passes under pressure. But that doesn't make him special. I don't think his passing is particularly creative or inspired and his shooting isn't really dangerous, I see him as a good cog in an otherwise functioning machine, if you create space for him he can exploit it. But the ones who made Dortmund tick were/are guys like Mkhiytaryan, Reus, Dembele and Sancho.
This is what a very humble, but extreme knowledgeable and handsome, caf poster wrote in 2018. No one who watched him closely should have been surprised that he has stagnated at Chelsea. If Chelsea are being idiots with their money they are the only ones to blame for it. If someone came around and paid €50m for Timo Werner only to make the shocking discovery that he's a bottler, would you blame Leipzig for that too? If someone came around and paid over €100m for Lukaku only to discover that he's a donkey would you blame Inter?

You could say similar about a lot of United's flops. The reason why City have so much better precision with their signings is that they have a functioning system and actually know what they need and who exactly they are buying. Somehow a lot of clubs seem to fail at that.
 

cyberman

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He’s who you play instead of Bruno.
Bruno is one of the main creators in the league, his XG chances created is insane for the games we’ve played this season. So you’re taking that away for Bellingham who isn’t a 10 and is a bit of a waste playing higher up? I was going through his stats there and he has 22 assist in his career and that’s with Haaland up front until this season. It doesn’t make sense and that’s my point. Play him in most positions in elite sides and you’re having a slightly worse option there with Jude and I’m saying that in 2022 with a 19 year old Bellingham. Imo football will focus on more precision players for each position as the seasons pass so God knows where he’ll stand when he’s 27/28.
All round he’s all ready better than most players but having all round players is becoming less of a necessary asset.
 

LuckyScout78

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One of the top level of a nr.8 out there right now. Clearly.

I am 100 % Ten Hag will go for a offensive and creative nr.8. Because Casemiro is not that kind of player. In January or next summer. United and Ten Hag will go for. If he hasn't give up on convincing FDJong. The best and equal good creative cm option out there is clearly Jude Bellingham. Only 19, but at this moment at a really high level.

You can clearly see Jude Bellingham has that dominance presence in his games. World class and top players has it. A dominance presence a la Zidane. Players that believe that are better than others. High self confidence players. Zlatan, Cantona or whoever. Jude Bellingham has it.

And top qualities do cost money. Not cheap or average. But will get a price that will match the qualities.
 

Giggsy13

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For the price quoted no thanks. Priority next summer is a centre forward, RB and possibly more economical cover at CM and CB. We can’t afford the luxury of Bellingham. He’ll end up at Madrid or city. We also have to account for Iqbal and Mainoo who seem to genuinely have a chance to be impactful players under Ten Hag.
 

Zehner

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To be honest, as a top club I'd stay away from him, especially at the supposed prices.

The media usually describe him as a complete midfielder: Technical brilliance paired with great physique, exceptional work ethic and unprecedented maturity. I think all of this is exaggerated. He's a good dribbler and passer and decently pressing resistent but nowhere near current midfield greats such as Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Thiago, Kimmich or de Bruyne. Which for me means he definitely needs his work ethic to become a great himself - but unfortunately, I'm not too convinced of that either. For all his supposed maturity, he's quite toxic towards his team mates, makes many wrong decisions in a game and lacks tactical discipline on top of it. And maybe worst of all, when he's on the ground because one of his bold tackles didn't succeed or the referee didn't give him the foul, he regularly takes his time and walks back into formation. I literally haven't seen such a thing from a worldclass midfielder to date. It really gives you Messi/Mbappe/Neymar/Cristiano vibes which puts his output into some context.

He won't get this kind of freedom at a top club where he'll be asked to do his job and leave the rest to the players who are fielded to do theirs. Among the elite talents that came through at Dortmund, he's the one I have most reservations about, Dembele aside.
 

ThierryHenry14

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To be honest, as a top club I'd stay away from him, especially at the supposed prices.

The media usually describe him as a complete midfielder: Technical brilliance paired with great physique, exceptional work ethic and unprecedented maturity. I think all of this is exaggerated. He's a good dribbler and passer and decently pressing resistent but nowhere near current midfield greats such as Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Thiago, Kimmich or de Bruyne. Which for me means he definitely needs his work ethic to become a great himself - but unfortunately, I'm not too convinced of that either. For all his supposed maturity, he's quite toxic towards his team mates, makes many wrong decisions in a game and lacks tactical discipline on top of it. And maybe worst of all, when he's on the ground because one of his bold tackles didn't succeed or the referee didn't give him the foul, he regularly takes his time and walks back into formation. I literally haven't seen such a thing from a worldclass midfielder to date. It really gives you Messi/Mbappe/Neymar/Cristiano vibes which puts his output into some context.

He won't get this kind of freedom at a top club where he'll be asked to do his job and leave the rest to the players who are fielded to do theirs. Among the elite talents that came through at Dortmund, he's the one I have most reservations about, Dembele aside.
It doesn't matter because he is English and the media will keep the hype. An English club will pay over 100m for him and BVB will be extremely happy again doing business with the English club.
 

Righteous Steps

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To be honest, as a top club I'd stay away from him, especially at the supposed prices.

The media usually describe him as a complete midfielder: Technical brilliance paired with great physique, exceptional work ethic and unprecedented maturity. I think all of this is exaggerated. He's a good dribbler and passer and decently pressing resistent but nowhere near current midfield greats such as Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Thiago, Kimmich or de Bruyne. Which for me means he definitely needs his work ethic to become a great himself - but unfortunately, I'm not too convinced of that either. For all his supposed maturity, he's quite toxic towards his team mates, makes many wrong decisions in a game and lacks tactical discipline on top of it. And maybe worst of all, when he's on the ground because one of his bold tackles didn't succeed or the referee didn't give him the foul, he regularly takes his time and walks back into formation. I literally haven't seen such a thing from a worldclass midfielder to date. It really gives you Messi/Mbappe/Neymar/Cristiano vibes which puts his output into some context.

He won't get this kind of freedom at a top club where he'll be asked to do his job and leave the rest to the players who are fielded to do theirs. Among the elite talents that came through at Dortmund, he's the one I have most reservations about, Dembele aside.
Which is interesting because he ticks more boxes than Sancho overall, more likely to fit into any team, more physical and athletic, plus is very good technically, he isn’t Kroos technically but Kroos certainly isn’t Bellingham physically.
 

LuckyScout78

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Bellingham has in the head. The mentality. A winner head mentality. High self confidence you will see like Zlatan and Cantona. Arrogance but to rise theirs self confidence. If you go out there on the pitch. And doesn't belief and confidence that you will beat and pass players. You will be incosistent.

Bellingham simply has it. Obviously. Same mentality as Haaland. But as CF, but as a creative and offensive cm player. And those player and winning head use to achieved it. Things will leads them on that path. Haaland, Zlatan or whoever born as a winner. Its just their fate. Those chapters and manuscript are written. All written in the stars.
 

croadyman

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For the price quoted no thanks. Priority next summer is a centre forward, RB and possibly more economical cover at CM and CB. We can’t afford the luxury of Bellingham. He’ll end up at Madrid or city. We also have to account for Iqbal and Mainoo who seem to genuinely have a chance to be impactful players under Ten Hag.
Totally agree but also need wide forward too
 

Zehner

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Which is interesting because he ticks more boxes than Sancho overall, more likely to fit into any team, more physical and athletic, plus is very good technically, he isn’t Kroos technically but Kroos certainly isn’t Bellingham physically.
I think you depict it a little bit too simply. Bellingham is indeed athletic and I've rarely seen a CM with his ability to take on defenders but when you read reports about him you get the impression he's Kante against the ball, Iniesta in possession and Sergio Ramos as a leader.

But then you watch him play and you realize that he isn't any of these things. He's an excellent dribbler for his position but he makes many wrong decisions, has bad touches and his passing isn't particularly exceptional. He at times has great tackles but also is often too aggressive and likes to walk around casually with his team mates having to cover him. And while he's supposed to be incredibly mature for his age, you always see him lamenting, waving his hands and being toxic to his team mates.

I also believe people don't put his performances into the right context. He gets more freedom at Dortmund then, say, de Bruyne at City or Bruno at United. He can leave the pressing formation and take pauses, he can roam freely in the attacking third to get himself into scoring or assisting positions, he's allowed to play very risky and lose more balls than most CMs at top teams, etc.

Sancho at Dortmund impressed me much, much more and he had much less freedom relative to a player in his position than Bellingham.
 

wolvored

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We got our fingers burned with Sancho. Just because he looks good in the German league and in the lower leagues here, doesnt mean he can do it in the Premier to the same level. Lots of players came from German league and havent performed. Ask Chelsea.
 

DWelbz19

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To be honest, as a top club I'd stay away from him, especially at the supposed prices.

The media usually describe him as a complete midfielder: Technical brilliance paired with great physique, exceptional work ethic and unprecedented maturity. I think all of this is exaggerated. He's a good dribbler and passer and decently pressing resistent but nowhere near current midfield greats such as Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Thiago, Kimmich or de Bruyne. Which for me means he definitely needs his work ethic to become a great himself - but unfortunately, I'm not too convinced of that either. For all his supposed maturity, he's quite toxic towards his team mates, makes many wrong decisions in a game and lacks tactical discipline on top of it. And maybe worst of all, when he's on the ground because one of his bold tackles didn't succeed or the referee didn't give him the foul, he regularly takes his time and walks back into formation. I literally haven't seen such a thing from a worldclass midfielder to date. It really gives you Messi/Mbappe/Neymar/Cristiano vibes which puts his output into some context.

He won't get this kind of freedom at a top club where he'll be asked to do his job and leave the rest to the players who are fielded to do theirs. Among the elite talents that came through at Dortmund, he's the one I have most reservations about, Dembele aside.
Agree with all of this. These reports of him being our top target confuse me. Unless our now de facto captain Bruno Fernandes suddenly drops off the face of the earth, Jude Bellingham makes very little sense for us. We’ll be far better off begging Frenkie for another summer, or finding an alternative central midfield whose best traits are ball retention and composure under the press in the first and middle third of the football field.
 
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