He's too short
Jules Koundé | Signs for Barcelona
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Yes sir!I’m not being dishonest if you really want I can list you the games I just found it really funny that it was one more than you’d watched hence the “you’ll laugh”.Being dishonest just to console yourself in the argument is pointless, but either way, it doesn’t really matter whether you are honest or no because I believe the issue here is that you don’t understand the problem with our centre back. Think of why Lindelof and Maguire cannot work together not just focus on Lindelof alone. They both are not mobile centre back and passive, they are too similar as Lindelof strength doesn’t compliment Maguire’s weakness at all while Maguire strength doesn’t compliment Lindelof’s weakness apart from the physical strength and the aerial presence.
To put it in short, you can’t play those two together.
Kounde has pace and aggressiveness (not fully aggressive like Bailly but he still able to play both aggressive and passive CB and he also can commit towards the ball rather than wait like Lindelof/Maguire), these compliment Maguire’s weakness. On top of it, he is a better ball playing centre back than lindelof (not talking about dribble but ball distribution is playing more risky passes and long ball, check stats below) and he is physically stronger and more muscular than Lindelof (check pic below). If you watch him, you should know these. He’s very good with his one on one, he’s not just good in positioning and decision making but he also combine those with his pace to be better than Lindelof in one on one.
I understand the issue we need a faster, stronger, less passive, better on the ball, composed and better in the air CB than Lindelof. I just don’t think you’re going to find anyone who ticks all those boxes so you have to prioritise based on our weak areas. My pick would be Konate as I think he covers as many as Kounde but has a better physical build for the PL.
I think Kounde (as I’ve said many times) is a really good CB for La Liga. Not Manchester United. We probably actually agree on his playstyle more than we disagree but I just think knowing what our clubs shortcomings have been Kounde and Maguire I’m not sure would work.
I think Kounde isn’t quite that CB yet to make us title challengers (with other signings)
Would you sign a young Fabio Cannavaro?
No! The peak one however...
The short answer to that is unfortunately no.
We had 5 quality CBs at United since the early 90s. Gary Pallister who was 6ft4, Ronnie Johnsen who was 6ft3, Jaap Stam who was 6ft3, Rio Ferdinand who was 6ft2+ and Nemanja Vidic who was 6ft3. Is that a coincidence? The answer is no. Those extra inches were needed.
Now if the EPL decides to stress on the need to play real football rather then a mix of football, rugby, boxing and wrestling then short CBs will thrive with us. Unfortunately till then there will be the likes of Big Sam managing EPL sides whose only plan is to play 6ft+ thugs upfront and spray crosses and long balls at them. That will require tall and physical CBs that can counter them. I was fortunate enough to watch Cannavaro and Baresi play in their prime. However I assure you that they couldn't counter for balls that they can't possibly reach especially if referees allowed 6ft+ thugs to shove an arm at their face without any impunity.
just saying, height isn't a big issue as long as you can jump well and position yourself correctly. There has been plenty of CB's who aren't "tall" bit still more than capable in the air.
There was a chance Mane had yesterday where he got on the end of a cross that was stood up towards the far post and nearly scored. Towered over 6'2" Mukiele in the process despite only being 5'9" himself.
Proof if ever that things such as vertical leap, physical strength and body position are just as important as being tall.
Yep, there's also people who head the ball, or there's people who ATTACK the ball.
Look at Cristiano for instance, he's a decent height but no towering monster - yet manages to score so many headed goals.
Why? positioning, leap, timing and desire/bravery to stick his head in.
Vidic himself was a decent height but no monster compared to other strikers around in the league at that time, must people were 6ft + yet he barely ever lost a header.
Looks a big upgrade on Lindelof. His ability on the ball looks really great. But he has to be physical enough for the PL
Cristiano is 6ft2, vidic is 6ft3
If aerial presence is the problem with Lindelöf (a lot of the time it is for sure) then how would bringing in someone shorter than him solve that?
I just don't see how he'd be a good fit next to Maguire in the fixtures where we tend to drop points.
I just don't see how he'd be a good fit next to Maguire in the fixtures where we tend to drop points.
The lad will have his audition by redcafe tonight. Interesting it is against Haaland and Sancho. after match will be interesting
I think it will be a good test for him in a high pressure match against a good striker and a good side.
What I’ve seen of him in La Liga he’s a very good CB but I just don’t see him as the solution for United.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. And you can see that we want to play that way with how high AWB and Shaw try to play these days, but in order to do so have to ask at least 2 midfielders to stay deeper to help the donkeys at the back.
After watching Upamecano last night and Konate not even starting because of yet another injury I struggle to see beyond Kounde as our best choice, he may be less physical than the others but that’s one of Maguire’s main strengths and we’re looking for someone to offset Maguire’s weaknesses.
Lindelof isn’t just weak but also slow and poor in the air which is why Lindelof and Maguire together doesn’t work and never will, as seen with Bailly partnering him Maguire needs someone with pace and an ability to cover in behind so we can play a high line and I think Kounde plus a pure out and out defensive midfielder with bundles of energy offsets Maguire’s weaknesses and gives us a solid foundation.
Lindelof isn’t just weak but also slow and poor in the air which is why Lindelof and Maguire together doesn’t work and never will, as seen with Bailly partnering him Maguire needs someone with pace and an ability to cover in behind so we can play a high line and I think Kounde plus a pure out and out defensive midfielder with bundles of energy offsets Maguire’s weaknesses and gives us a solid foundation.
I think you are confusing height with good in the air. Sergio Ramos is just 6ft, but is outstanding in the air, one of the best of all time.
Another consideration is that the game has changed even in the EPL. Aguero, Aubameyang, Werner are all so quick and a Gary Pallister would have serious issues dealing with those types.
Agree. Kounde and a proper DM would improve us massively imo.
I really like the look of Kounde, quick strong and technically very good with the ball. I get a feeling he would partner Maguire very well.
Yeah you need to factor in athleticism, you can be shorter but have a much better leap than taller players, a good leap amounts to more than a few inches.
Take fellaini as an example, he scored headers from being tall but his leap was feckin awful, he would repeatedly lose headers in the middle of the pitch against smaller players as he jumped about 1 inch off the ground. (Which infuriated me immensely might I add.)
Somebody like Ramos can out leap most of his peers at CB. In fact if I were a CB I’d prefer to be a tad shorter and more athletic/agile to make up for that, if I had the choice.
Yeah I don't get why people are fixating on a guy who's just under 5ft 9 and expecting him to compete. Maybe we need to buy Gomes back and play him up top
They`d have to offload Varane first with Alaba going there to replace Ramos
Sergio Ramos is actually only at the 41st percentile for aerial win %, only wins 61% of aerial duels. Hes great at attacking set pieces and getting the important goals... but statistically he is pretty awful at aerial duels overall.
Agree on Konate I think he`ll go to LFC or Chelsea but Kounde`s fee will be circa 60-70m whilst its kind of high Utd will factor in CB is a HUGE need and priority like 2019, there`s a lack of actual good CBs on the market and he`s still young I genuinely think we`ll pay up for him but it`ll be like Maguire offer below the asking price then eventually pay up as time progresses
Agree with this. Need a pacy CB to play the high line and you need to maintain the high line against teams that sit deep to win the ball back quickly. I think this is a bigger issue than Lindelof being shit at heading.
I think height is less important than being physical, strong and the key imo willingness/desire to go for the ball. You can see that with Lindelof, he has height but lacks all the aforementioned. I think you can see that with AWB too, tall but is not a good header, poor positionally and lacking desire imo.
Just a general point. I dont know enough about Kounde.
I suppose Konate is the option who ticks everything but then he is supposedly injury prone.
Either way as long as we try to upgrade on Lindelof.
Just a general point. I dont know enough about Kounde.
I suppose Konate is the option who ticks everything but then he is supposedly injury prone.
Either way as long as we try to upgrade on Lindelof.
Also agree with this. An aggressive, pacy CB who might let you play a higher line is another way of dealing with this inability to deal with the WestBrom/Burnley style of play.
Scholes made a good point in some comments in that article above that the defender needs to be more than decent in the air. If we get another Maguire beside Maguire the defence will be even worse as we won't dictate possession having to be conservative about a high line. We will go into games with even more pragmatism.
I would be slightly more apprehensive of all this but the fact he's getting a solid credible reputation out of Spain and the extent city sought him immediately after failing Koulabily I think there's less of a perceived element of risk.
I would be slightly more apprehensive of all this but the fact he's getting a solid credible reputation out of Spain and the extent city sought him immediately after failing Koulabily I think there's less of a perceived element of risk.
Alaba isn't gonna replace Ramos and he prefers playing in midfield.
Real Madrid will likely sign one of Kounde or Pau Torres IMO.
I reckon you’re right on Madrid. Pau for me seems more likely mainly because I think he’s a cheaper option.
We're not in for Ramon according to Phil Brown, so we've gotta be after either Kounde, Varane or Torres in terms of top defenders. Doubt Madrid can afford Kounde so they'll probably go after Torres. Leaves us with either Kounde or Varane. We could do a swap with Madrid, Pogba for Varane, but there's a rumour we could do that for Valverde.
Jules is the one, Torres is too weak. A faster and better on the ball Lindelöf, but we need someone that can defend brilliantly without fear. Jules has it all, the leap and timing make up for not being 1.98m
Ramos plays in a league were proper football is played. The sort of thuggery the likes of Lindelof/Maguire experienced against WBA would land the opponent in question a straight red. Long story short a CB can leap like a salmon but it would be pointless until strikers are allowed to shove an arm straight to their face just before they jump hence breaking any momentum. In such circumstances inches is needed. There's a reason why all our top CBs were 6ft2+ and its the same reason why the current best CBs are 6ft2-6ft3 (Van Dijk, Dias, Stones, Maguire, Fofana, Gabriel etc)
Really great point. This isn’t standing vertical jump it’s a live physical game where natural height in a physical battle when you can’t get your clean leap absolutely comes into it.
I really like Kounde but I agree with you here there is absolutely a reason all of the “best” in the PL are around that height as well as having either pace or ball playing ability or both.
I don't know why are you still focusing on Lindelof alone. I just told you from my previous post that the problem of United centre back is not Lindelof but the partnership of Lindelof & Maguire.
Get Konate means you get a likely injury prone, thus why there are people pick Kounde over Konate because the point is to find someone who can stay fit to compliment the guy we spent 80m. Kounde has pace, physically strong, can be both passive and aggressive defender, better ball playing than Lindelof and still capable in the air so what Kounde offers is something to compliment Maguire. So go on, feel free to name all those games you watched this season, you are just wasting time without making progress if you only saying I can list you the games for two posts in a row.
The big question is have we got the cash to get a proper DM though, really hope we do look outside of the premier league at options like Zakaria, Locatelli because the likes of Rice/Ndidi will cost us big money. Like others have said tonight will be a big test for Kounde against one of the best strikers in the world right now and a creative winger finding his mojo again.
The club aren’t going to replace Maguire. Hence the focus on Lindelof.I don't know why are you still focusing on Lindelof alone. I just told you from my previous post that the problem of United centre back is not Lindelof but the partnership of Lindelof & Maguire.
Get Konate means you get a likely injury prone, thus why there are people pick Kounde over Konate because the point is to find someone who can stay fit to compliment the guy we spent 80m. Kounde has pace, physically strong, can be both passive and aggressive defender, better ball playing than Lindelof and still capable in the air so what Kounde offers is something to compliment Maguire. So go on, feel free to name all those games you watched this season, you are just wasting time without making progress if you only saying I can list you the games for two posts in a row.
Konate has his injury concerns but beyond that ticks more boxes. Look at the top CBS in the PL how many are his height?
He may have a good uncontested leap but that’s not how the PL works. Do you think Kounde will come in and that’s our defence sorted?
Games I’ve seen of Sevilla this season (not including tonight)
- Barcelona (La Liga)
- Athletic Bilbao (La Liga)
- Real Madrid (La Liga)
- Stadde Rennais x2 (Champions League)
- Real Sociadad (La Liga)
- Atletico Madrid (La Liga)
- Barcelona (Copa Del Rey)
Finally someone who gets it.
Some might think that I am an old fashioned type of fan who loves the hard tackling direct 'football'/mess the likes of Souness and Big Sam loves. That can't be further then the truth. I was raised watching the likes of Franco Baresi, Pietro Vierchowod and Fabio Cannavaro playing football, all of which were below the 6ft mark. Unfortunately I can't see any of them cutting it in the EPL.
Strikers are allowed to do that because the defender is too soft, easily outmuscled, not aggressive enough and doesn't go towards the ball when in the air. If you are strong, be more aggressive and always commit or going towards the ball instead of just waiting the ball come at you then you would win the ball or get a free kick from being fouled, this is what makes Puyol and Cannavaro still good in the air, they know what to do to handle aerial duel. If you are the opposite then referee and VAR will consider it as not foul but think the defender is just being weak. Getting outjumped by tall players like DCL or Crouch is understandable, but being outmuscled and not being aggressive is the problem.
Again that’s the accusation thrown at anyone suggesting height is important but it’s not as if we’re saying we just want a tall player or Vestegaard would be suggested it’s about having the physical ability and technical on some level.
Players can be great CBs and not be suited to Manchester United in the PL.
Strikers are allowed to do that because refs turn a blind eye to it. I assure you that the likes of Big Sam would never make it in Spain or in Italy. Well, he might manage some mix martial artist but not a football club
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