Julian Nagelsmann | Joining Bayern

Suedesi

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So what's after happening here then? From what I can see on Sky Sports, it looks as if he's been pushed out for asking for a vote on transfers. Have I got this right or am I missing something?
I think the DOF is a complete feckup, but Bayern sided with the structure in place rather than give more power to an individual (albeit a very successful one). Also with Jogi announcing his departure, think Flick had his heart set on the national team, and Bayern probably knew that.
 

Son

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I mean regular is subjective so lets take the last 5 years and 10 years as examples

In the last 5 years Bayern have brought 27 players from other clubs... of which 10 were from German clubs (so pretty much 37%)
In the last 5 years Bayern have spent 412.9 million on players of which 109.9 million was from german clubs (so pretty much 26.5%)

These 10 signings also included Gortexka, Rudy and Nubel who were actually a free agenst so you could even argue they technically didnt sign him from a german cub and in reality they signed 26% of players from german clubs

in terms of weakening the teams that are challenging them then this is who they signed them from

20/21 Nubel - Shalke - finished 18th
19/20 Cuissinance - Monchengladbach - finished 4th (17 points behind Bayern)
19/20 Arp - Hamberg - were in division 2
19/20 Pavard - Stutgart - were in division 2
18/19 Gortexka - Shalke - finished 14th
17/18 Sule - Hofenheim - Finished 3rd (29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Wagner - Hofenheim - Finished (29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Rudy - Hofenheim - Finished(29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Gnabry - Werder - finished 16th
16/17 Hummles - Dortnund - finished 3rd (18 points behind Bayern)

I think the only one you could even make an argument they were weakening a club who were a threat is Hummles

1 signing out of 27 (about 4%) and 31.5 out of 412.9 million or about 7.5% of their spend

As i say regular is subjective and if 96% of their signings had conformed to your theory or even 92.5% of their spend I would agree with you - but as the opposit is true it seems a stretch to say this is regular

Opening this up to a 10 year window and we see

57 players brought from other clubs of which 24 were from german clubs so 42% - an increase but clearly still most players were not brought from german clubs
total spend over that period was 654.1 million with 202.6 of that being spent with German clubs - so around 30%

Players signed from clubs who could genuinley be considered rivals ober that perios would be
Lewendowski (though he is a free agent so you could argue shouldnt count) and Gotze

which means over a 10 year period we have 2 or 3 players out of 57 (so between 3.5 and 5.25% depending how you could lewendowski) players signed from a genuine BL rival and 9.8% of money spend on those

So 95% of signings and 90% of money spent falls outside of this supposedly regular occurance

i mean totally 100% feel free to show me some evidence from the last 10 years that contradicts this

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bayern-munchen/alletransfers/verein/27
They just cherry pick. Every potential top player in Germany goes to Bayern if possible 90 percent of the time which is an unfair advantage - not only domestically but in Europe as they don’t have to try to hard in league games / are guaranteed a quota of top players each season.

They are what United could have been had we not had oil money and Sky took control of us. Same outcome and it’s not that respectable. Their fans get arrogant but the facts are against real competition each week their club would get slapped down to reality more often.
 

Hansi Fick

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They just cherry pick. Every potential top player in Germany goes to Bayern if possible 90 percent of the time which is an unfair advantage - not only domestically but in Europe as they don’t have to try to hard in league games / are guaranteed a quota of top players each season.

They are what United could have been had we not had oil money and Sky took control of us. Same outcome and it’s not that respectable. Their fans get arrogant but the facts are against real competition each week their club would get slapped down to reality more often.
Unfair advantage :lol:

Get a grip for crying out loud.
 

NoLogo

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Yes, but I think we can agree theres a big difference between Spurs and ManUtd
I think a crucial point that many people seem to miss is that a power and financial gap like the one the Bundesliga is having with Bayern compared to the rest of the league simply doesn't exist in England. The thing is even Bayerns the closest competitors are like well City, Liverpool or United compared to Southampton and that only counts for Dortmund and RB Leipzig. The rest of the league is to Bayern like Championship teams compared are compared to the PL big dogs.
 

NoLogo

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Unfair advantage :lol:

Get a grip for crying out loud.
I don't know who said it on here but I thought it was quite funny.

"Cute you have La Masia, we have the entire league as our youth system." :lol:

I'm far from a Bayern fan but even I find it hilarious how envious some of our fans here are of Bayern and try to shit talk all over your club.
 

kingwaynerooney

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The fact that bundesliga is a one team league should make it an unattractive destination for big players. Might explain why most foreign players dream of Barca and Madrid over munich. Munich, who should be seen on their level

No wonder they keep signing talents from other bundesliga teams.
 

Boavista

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The fact that bundesliga is a one team league should make it an unattractive destination for big players. Might explain why most foreign players dream of Barca and Madrid over munich. Munich, who should be seen on their level

No wonder they keep signing talents from other bundesliga teams.
Big players weren't dreaming of joining Bayern even before it became a one team league to this extent. If anything they're more likely to join now that Bayern are always a big favourite for the Champions League.
 

Hansi Fick

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I don't know who said it on here but I thought it was quite funny.

"Cute you have La Masia, we have the entire league as our youth system." :lol:

I'm far from a Bayern fan but even I find it hilarious how envious some of our fans here are of Bayern and try to shit talk all over your club.
I don't mind it really, it's just funny what bizarre intellectual contortions people come up with to justify their moaning, considering they're mostly fans of huge and filthy rich PL clubs. "So unfair!!" :lol:
 

Rektsanwalt

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Big players weren't dreaming of joining Bayern even before it became a one team league to this extent. If anything they're more likely to join now that Bayern are always a big favourite for the Champions League.
Absolutely true, big players don't dream of Bayern - at least if they're not already in the Bundesliga. And they almost never sign elite players from outside the Bundesliga. Heck, the usually don't even sign the absolute top players from the Bundesliga bar Manuel Neuer (who was undisputedly the best goalkeeper when he joined Bayern) and Lewandowski. Bayern usually is a strong collective (first 11 average quality is extremely high, compared to most other topclubs) and well working team (as in: workrate), at least in the last 10 years or so. On top of that, the squad is pretty balanced with an elite manager doing great work, otherwise he will be fired and replaced with a better suiting coach.
Bayern's image simply isn't as glamorous as say Barcelona or Real (salarywise as well). And english top clubs pay better in a more competetive league. I don't think elite players like Mbappé or Haaland would even consider Bayern as a destination.
Thing is: who gives a shit. Bayern's model works as good because they don't want to attract such players. Salary hygiene, not too many divas, yet a lot of success. Why should they care about Mbappé or Haaland if they can compete with the very best year after year for the last decade and even come ahead 2 times? Their model is successful shortterm, midterm, longterm, it's sustainable. But no, usually winners of the Ballon d'Or won't play for Bayern.
 

Boavista

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Absolutely true, big players don't dream of Bayern - at least if they're not already in the Bundesliga. And they almost never sign elite players from outside the Bundesliga. Heck, the usually don't even sign the absolute top players from the Bundesliga bar Manuel Neuer (who was undisputedly the best goalkeeper when he joined Bayern) and Lewandowski. Bayern usually is a strong collective (first 11 average quality is extremely high, compared to most other topclubs) and well working team (as in: workrate), at least in the last 10 years or so. On top of that, the squad is pretty balanced with an elite manager doing great work, otherwise he will be fired and replaced with a better suiting coach.
Bayern's image simply isn't as glamorous as say Barcelona or Real (salarywise as well). And english top clubs pay better in a more competetive league. I don't think elite players like Mbappé or Haaland would even consider Bayern as a destination.
Thing is: who gives a shit. Bayern's model works as good because they don't want to attract such players. Salary hygiene, not too many divas, yet a lot of success. Why should they care about Mbappé or Haaland if they can compete with the very best year after year for the last decade and even come ahead 2 times? Their model is successful shortterm, midterm, longterm, it's sustainable. But no, usually winners of the Ballon d'Or won't play for Bayern.
Yeah I think some clubs, and many fans in general, are too focussed on getting the cream of the crop players. But at the top of the talent pool the price difference is exponentially higher than the difference in quality. On the pitch you can achieve the same results with players that were rated a bit below the most hyped names but come at a more reasonable price, especially with young players as you can't know how they'll develop. Coman might be less talented than Barcelona's Dembele, but that's not necessarily going to make a massive difference in a game. A well set-up team will always make up for that, to some extent anyway.

Either way there are so many good players around that could flourish in the right team, so there's really no need to go for the biggest stars. The difficult part is providing the right conditions for players to perform/develop through good coaching etc.
 

Acrobat7

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They just cherry pick. Every potential top player in Germany goes to Bayern if possible 90 percent of the time which is an unfair advantage...
1) de Bruyne, Özil, Reus, Gündogan, Sané, Dembele, Firmino, Khedira, Havertz etc...
2) it is not an „unfair“ advantage since they built it themselves
 

Zhagzi

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The fact that is shocking you - a Brit - it doesn't mean it's uncommon in the continent. Get over it ;)

Well that's well besides the point he's making isn't it now? He's saying he prefers a certain type of rivalry. He's not saying switching between rival teams is uncommon or common for that matter, on the rest of the European continent. I agree with him, that switching between rival teams isn't suited for a real rivalry.
 

Zhagzi

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I mean regular is subjective so lets take the last 5 years and 10 years as examples

In the last 5 years Bayern have brought 27 players from other clubs... of which 10 were from German clubs (so pretty much 37%)
In the last 5 years Bayern have spent 412.9 million on players of which 109.9 million was from german clubs (so pretty much 26.5%)

These 10 signings also included Gortexka, Rudy and Nubel who were actually a free agenst so you could even argue they technically didnt sign him from a german cub and in reality they signed 26% of players from german clubs

in terms of weakening the teams that are challenging them then this is who they signed them from

20/21 Nubel - Shalke - finished 18th
19/20 Cuissinance - Monchengladbach - finished 4th (17 points behind Bayern)
19/20 Arp - Hamberg - were in division 2
19/20 Pavard - Stutgart - were in division 2
18/19 Gortexka - Shalke - finished 14th
17/18 Sule - Hofenheim - Finished 3rd (29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Wagner - Hofenheim - Finished (29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Rudy - Hofenheim - Finished(29 points behind Bayern)
17/18 Gnabry - Werder - finished 16th
16/17 Hummles - Dortnund - finished 3rd (18 points behind Bayern)

I think the only one you could even make an argument they were weakening a club who were a threat is Hummles

1 signing out of 27 (about 4%) and 31.5 out of 412.9 million or about 7.5% of their spend

As i say regular is subjective and if 96% of their signings had conformed to your theory or even 92.5% of their spend I would agree with you - but as the opposit is true it seems a stretch to say this is regular

Opening this up to a 10 year window and we see

57 players brought from other clubs of which 24 were from german clubs so 42% - an increase but clearly still most players were not brought from german clubs
total spend over that period was 654.1 million with 202.6 of that being spent with German clubs - so around 30%

Players signed from clubs who could genuinley be considered rivals ober that perios would be
Lewendowski (though he is a free agent so you could argue shouldnt count) and Gotze

which means over a 10 year period we have 2 or 3 players out of 57 (so between 3.5 and 5.25% depending how you could lewendowski) players signed from a genuine BL rival and 9.8% of money spend on those

So 95% of signings and 90% of money spent falls outside of this supposedly regular occurance

i mean totally 100% feel free to show me some evidence from the last 10 years that contradicts this

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bayern-munchen/alletransfers/verein/27
Fine bit of digging here. Adds nuance to the picture, that I very much see too (i.e. Bayern cherry-picking the brightest talents in the Bundesliga).

Although, I have to disagree about players when they are free transfers. In the last decade or so, players have had a beginning habit of becoming free agents so they can choose their own next destination. It's only becoming more and more popular with bigger players out there. If Bayern is flirting through the media with a player from a rival club and ending up swooping them on a free because the player knows Bayern will offer them a place in the squad, then it's the same for me - whether they buy the player or not.

Also, as another member posted, they are cherry-picking from the league. Like Goretzka - or Neuer from Schalke even though Schalke weren't close to knocking Bayern off their perch. But cherry-picking the brightest the minute they break through makes it all the more difficult in the long run for anyone to mount a considerable challenge to their long reign.


While all your stats may point to it not being as hyped as some do in here, I still believe you're missing the strategic incision Bayern is making with their transfer policy in the domestic league.
 

Wolf1992

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Joke signing in a joke league.

Bayern has always been the flagship German team. Bundesliga XI.

What surprises me is how a country as big and as diverse and as rich as Germany could capitulate to the dominance of one football team? I never understood that.

Where's the investment in the rest of the league? It's not as if Germany lacks economic resources. Very unimpressive.

All hail Bavaria!!!!!!
And what exactly they should do?

Sell half their teams to foreign billionaires like what happened in EPL?

People need to be aware that the success of Premier League came ,in part, from selling teams to foreign billionaires, who can invest lot of money to compete.

I totally understand if german teams are not down to do the same, which would means breaking the 50+1 rule.Props to them for that.

I will never understand non-german fans whining about Bayern taking players from other german teams to destroy the competition in Bundesliga.
It's the way that works for them, just like EPL top teams,Barca, Madrid, PSG,and Juventus love to throw big money at players

Also you are wrong about one team dominance : Before the 2000s, Bayern won Bundesliga only 14 times in 37 seasons, and Bundesliga had 11 different champions; meanwhile between 1963 and 2000 English Football had 10 different champions, 1 less than Bundesliga.
So we can say that historically, Bundesliga looks more diverse than English league.
 

Cheimoon

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can't win a game to save his life, what a flop
I think you guys have been patient for long enough. Is the team criticizing the training regime yet? It might be time for a change to save the season. Even HSV has more points than you at this point.
 

Hansi Fick

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Of course you would say that :lol:

I haven’t been able to catch any of their preseason games yet. Is there a noticeable difference in the setup and the way Bayern are playing vs under Hansi?
Impossible to say, we're playing a mix of second team and U19 so far
 

Hansi Fick

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How’s Omar Richards looking?
Lively but not very impressive else. A bit loose on the ball. These games have very little significance though.
The time to judge his performance will be in the cup 1st round and then the first Bundesliga match days, as with both Lucas and Phonzie out he will quite probably be starting the season in the first 11.
 

Hansi Fick

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I haven’t been able to catch any of their preseason games yet. Is there a noticeable difference in the setup and the way Bayern are playing vs under Hansi?
To come back to this, it's funny how expectations shape analysis, Bayern's lineup was in advance billed as a 3 man defense of Upamecano, Nianzou, Stanisic, yet in reality it turned out to be a clear 4-3-3 with Stanisic as DM and Rhein and Cuisance as 8s (with and against the ball).
Zirkzee was actually playing as a wide attacker (with Choupo Moting centrally) which is pretty awkward.
 

Mb194dc

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Chances of him doing an AVB and getting sacked by Christmas?

Hard for a young coach go somewhere like Bayern. If results don't flow he'll likely lose the dressing room pretty quickly.
 

Hansi Fick

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Have his top players been available?
As an answer, last game's lineup:

FC Bayern:Hoffmann - Upamecano (61. Lawrence), Nianzou (61. Mosandl), Stanisic (61. Vidovic) - Sarr (61. Vita), Rhein (61. Mamedova), Cuisance (61. Booth), O. Richards (61. Wenig) - Tillman (61. Motika), Zirkzee (C. Richards), Choupo-Moting (61. Gnabry)

I have to admit I have never heard before of 6/10 of subbed in players
 
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Adisa

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As an answer, last game's linup:

FC Bayern:Hoffmann - Upamecano (61. Lawrence), Nianzou (61. Mosandl), Stanisic (61. Vidovic) - Sarr (61. Vita), Rhein (61. Mamedova), Cuisance (61. Booth), O. Richards (61. Wenig) - Tillman (61. Motika), Zirkzee (C. Richards), Choupo-Moting (61. Gnabry)

I have to admit I have never heard before of 7/10 of subbed in players
Then there's no cause for concern. I have never heard of half those players.
 

Blackwidow

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Have his top players been available?
Of the players that were available only Upamecano (and Gnabry who got 30 minutes at the end) will probably be starter next season. Nianzou has a chance at the beginning of the season as Hernandez and Davies will probably return after the first international break.
The players that played in the Euros have returned Monday this week (Gnabry arrived 3 days earlier) - and Müller (who has holidays until today but is alread training individually since Monday), Kimmich and Neuer (who are still in holidays until today) start training with the team on Monday.
But there is youth players that actually have impressed like Rhein (CM/DM) or Armindo Sieb (wing) and could be part of a broader first team this season.
 

Hansi Fick

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Of the players that were available only Upamecano (and Gnabry who got 30 minutes at the end) will probably be starter next season. Nianzou has a chance at the beginning of the season as Hernandez and Davies will probably return after the first international break.
The players that played in the Euros have returned Monday this week (Gnabry arrived 3 days earlier) - and Müller (who has holidays until today but is alread training individually since Monday), Kimmich and Neuer (who are still in holidays until today) start training with the team on Monday.
But there is youth players that actually have impressed like Rhein (CM/DM) or Armindo Sieb (wing) and could be part of a broader first team this season.
I think Nianzou will be a starter if he stays fit, the kid is unbelievable.
 

stefan92

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Another loss 0-3
On friday they have to win, then is the first round of the DFB Pokal against Bremer SV (who are playing in the fifth league). Nobody will care about results in pre-season when they to that. Of course if they should fail things will be different...