A crime is a crime, and needs to be called as such. Maybe next time he thinks twice about wearing seat cover suits in the publicPretty amusing how much he's getting killed in the media for his fashion statement. It's almost more talked about than his team's performance.
Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
- Thread starter VP89
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He's the kind of manager we should be after, totally revolutionary, great style developed in Leipzig and while it may be a gamble because he's young and unproven at top teams this are the gambles we should be taking.
Yeah ill always love Poch and wish him every success in the future but in the end he had to go and I'm really happy we have Jose now.
Well exactly. He wore it to get attention. Pretty pathetic really. If you're going to act like a bellend at least do a Mourinho with Porto and cause the upset.Pretty amusing how much he's getting killed in the media for his fashion statement. It's almost more talked about than his team's performance.
Maybe you remember when he showed up with a bright red coat to watch a Bayern match as a neutral? I think he's quite concerned with his image and does these things deliberately. It's one of the things that worries me slightly.Pretty amusing how much he's getting killed in the media for his fashion statement. It's almost more talked about than his team's performance.
Come on.. this is not a Spurs forum.. Glaston has left for India.. it's a safe space to be honest..
Yeah, the difference in quality is obviously a big issue, especially without Werner.
The tactics and formation are very similar although not exactly the same. I tend to like PSG's 2-3 defense and midfield base that they use to move the ball up. Their fullbacks push up a bit more than what I see from RB Leipzig so it gives them that width in attack with the wing forwards moving into an inside forward kind of position. So they seem very dangerous in central areas while also having a wide threat. Tuchel has done well with them this season I think.
This thread is an absolute trainwreck.
I didn't read all the posts but looks like I dont need toYour obsession with him is frankly bizarre...
Ha! Beautifully described.
Has to be a wind up
Basically, all the things Ole is supposed to be good at but the Ole out crowd are adament aren't important in order to put Ole down.
Nagelsmann looks like an intriguing coach/manager for the future. Should stay at RBL for another two or three years to hone his skills and then I think he'll be ready for a top job.
Oh good, someone went and brought Pochettino into the mix 
Nagelsmann is a brilliant young up and coming coach who will become one of the most sought after young coaches when he leaves RBL IMO. Having watched RBL fairly regularly in the past two seasons, it's easy to see why he's rated so highly.
PSG did win the game and fully deserved to win the game. But I think we can all agree that PSG are a superior outfit with financial backing from Qatar that dwarfs RBL hence having better players in most positions. And on top of that they have a very very good coach too in Tuchel.
The odds were heavily stacked against RBL and Nagelsmann against PSG for the above reasons but also don't forget both Werner and Konate weren't available to Nagelsmann who are key players at the club.
And before I conclude, I'd like United fans to keep a eye on the progress of Marco Rose who is currently the first team coach at Gladbach. He's another young up and coming coach who has big potential. His Gladbach went toe to toe with the current Bayern in the BuLi last season and won one of the two fixtures and narrowly lost the other. Gladbach will also be in the UCL next season.
PSG did win the game and fully deserved to win the game. But I think we can all agree that PSG are a superior outfit with financial backing from Qatar that dwarfs RBL hence having better players in most positions. And on top of that they have a very very good coach too in Tuchel.
The odds were heavily stacked against RBL and Nagelsmann against PSG for the above reasons but also don't forget both Werner and Konate weren't available to Nagelsmann who are key players at the club.
And before I conclude, I'd like United fans to keep a eye on the progress of Marco Rose who is currently the first team coach at Gladbach. He's another young up and coming coach who has big potential. His Gladbach went toe to toe with the current Bayern in the BuLi last season and won one of the two fixtures and narrowly lost the other. Gladbach will also be in the UCL next season.
From the few matches I've watched of Leipzig (particularly against PSG), I've noticed they are very good in pressing and bypassing the press. But their keeper and poor touches by their players let them down defensively.
And their strikers were not lethal in front of the goal. But their team and combination play was superb.
In the event of Ole leaving or being sacked? How would Nagelsmann or Marco Rose fare in United? Are they pragmatic and tactically flexible against better teams?
The attitude here is weird, so there are fans who want Ole out, which means 'Ole in' fans want to shit on any other manager threads? Same with players too, few don't rate our players which means it's time to shit on other great players as some sort of ' retaliation' .
Nagelsmann is brilliant young manager, reaching semi finals of CL is good achievement. Winning trophies doesn't depend on manager qualities alone, Tuchel who probably won just German cup in 10 years has good chance of winning quadruple this season and also back to back league winner.
Good manager elevate their team, winning trophies depend on multiple factors (like the strength of squad, coach quality, little bit of luck factor especially in KO games). They shouldn't be judged on trophies alone. Big clubs should rate their work on how they are getting better than sum of the parts instead of just Wiki honor list.
Nagelsmann is brilliant young manager, reaching semi finals of CL is good achievement. Winning trophies doesn't depend on manager qualities alone, Tuchel who probably won just German cup in 10 years has good chance of winning quadruple this season and also back to back league winner.
Good manager elevate their team, winning trophies depend on multiple factors (like the strength of squad, coach quality, little bit of luck factor especially in KO games). They shouldn't be judged on trophies alone. Big clubs should rate their work on how they are getting better than sum of the parts instead of just Wiki honor list.
He deserved to go out just for his suit. Looked like a total prat.Pretty amusing how much he's getting killed in the media for his fashion statement. It's almost more talked about than his team's performance.
On a more serious note I listened to his interview on DAZN before the game. Everything he says about tactics sounds quite impressive and understandable to my not-professional ears, he clearly is a clever young man with a lot of charisma who knows how to come across competently.
I kind of hate our current situation. Because Ole is Ole, I want to back him and give him every chance, while in my heart of hearts not really believing he has what it takes to take us back to the top. I think most fans are like-minded on this...
I therefore wouldn't push him out, technically this season was progress but I think we also see the flaws in terms of tactical awareness in big games and improving some of our defensive issues.
The manager Nagelsman would seem to be just what we need, we will probably miss oppurtnities like this and wait until things are really bad before sacking Ole.
With that said, I don't think the board would even look at Nagelsman if the job was available. They would go either British or older European (past it) high proven manager.
I therefore wouldn't push him out, technically this season was progress but I think we also see the flaws in terms of tactical awareness in big games and improving some of our defensive issues.
The manager Nagelsman would seem to be just what we need, we will probably miss oppurtnities like this and wait until things are really bad before sacking Ole.
With that said, I don't think the board would even look at Nagelsman if the job was available. They would go either British or older European (past it) high proven manager.
I've said it several times on here, that for me, we should target either Nagelsmann or Rose if we get ourselves into a situation where we need to change manager. I wanted Rose when Mourinho was sacked and Rose was coaching RB Salzsburg at the time.
Rose and Nagelsmann both adopt a proactive approach and try to impose their style on the opposition. Rose is touted as the next Jurgen Klopp by some in Austria and Germany and tbf it's easy to see why. Both coaches are similar in how they implement their style which involves playing through the opposition vertically rather than to go around them. Both also like to implement a wolf-pack like press after the forwards shepherd the opposition to pass out wide and then the opposition receiver gets swarmed which results in a turn over more often than not. And it always seems to be executed at the correct moment which takes the opposition by surprise. The style is dynamic, high tempo, high intensity and focused on fast transitions starting from playing the ball out from the back line with fullbacks pushed high up the pitch.
Nagelsmann and Rose both imposed their game on Bayern with success in the season just gone by. Especially Rose who tactically outwitted Flick in the second half in the home game against Bayern IMO. Gladbach were struggling against Bayern's high press in the first half and he turned the game around and won after going a goal down after identifying the problem at halftime. As long as both managers have the tools at their disposal I don't believe they'd adopt a pragmatic approach unless it was to see a game out.
The systems may change or even the tactics, but the concept to impose their style on the opposition will remain the same IMO. Nagelsmann played 3 at the back not because he wanted to play defensively but rather to give his inferior team defensive balance in a forward thinking approach.
Leipzig and Gladbach are fairly structured clubs with a clear philosophy: for example everyone can probably describe the typical Leipzig player: young, talented, but also a decent athlete/worker. It's a mindset and recruitment strategy that is implemented and maintained from the top of the club, regardless of who is currently coaching. Gladbach don't have the money to sign as many highly regarded talents and they don't have the feeder clubs to test drive the more obscure youngsters, but they have a very powerful DoF in Eberl who maintains their identity.
I mention this, because while these teams may only offer Rose and Nagelsmann limited ressources compared to what they hope to achieve their squads are actually built cohesively to accommodate a modern coach like them. United's squad is more patchwork, which could easily become an issue if someone does not fit with some of their fundamental ideas of how they want their team to play, but can't just be axed. Nagelsmann in particular seems to be planning his career quite carefully, I obviously don't know how he feels personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just turn down United, because the risk of getting burned is too high.
I mention this, because while these teams may only offer Rose and Nagelsmann limited ressources compared to what they hope to achieve their squads are actually built cohesively to accommodate a modern coach like them. United's squad is more patchwork, which could easily become an issue if someone does not fit with some of their fundamental ideas of how they want their team to play, but can't just be axed. Nagelsmann in particular seems to be planning his career quite carefully, I obviously don't know how he feels personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just turn down United, because the risk of getting burned is too high.
Heavy Metal Football eh? Which I really like.. both the footballing and the musical style.
Gladbach under Marco Rose will be a team I will be looking out on when I have time to watch Bundesliga Matches in the coming season.
Cheers for the explanation on the styles of these German coaches. They are coming to the fore lately.
Would I be wrong if I said Klopp or Mainz had a huge influence on these coaches? As all these upcoming German coaches seems to have an affiliation or history with either Klopp or Mainz.
Isn't Rangnick the one at the origin of all that? The inspiration to this new generation of German coaches?
Yeah, exactly. As long as United don't have a DoF who has either set out a clear football philosophy or is willing to work with the coach's direction and take the time together to transform the club accordingly, I don't see Rose or Nagelsmann coming over. Yes, United is huge and alluring, but without the proper setup, neither will thrive. What's in that for them? I think they would prefer an EPL club that has a DoF structure already and a clearer direction - like Liverpool or City. (Maybe Leicester? I supposed Arsenal used to be like this as well under Wenger, but I don't know what's left of that now.)
Rangnick is credited with bringing the back four to the libero obsessed masses and introducing the concept of pressing in general. Klopp's Dortmund taught people how devastating Gegenpressing is against naive opposition, Guardiola inspired people to play positional football. Most of the young coaches seem to worship the Spaniard most.
Nagelsmann has confirmed talks with Realm himself and never made any secret out of his desire to coach Bayern.
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Take our squad right now (plus Sancho, top 10 youth, minus deadwood), how suitable would it be for Nagelsmann or Rose to implement their philosophy to a standard good enough to challenge Liverpool? Would it be yet another massive reconstruction vs OGS squad? What are the players they'd get rid off and who would they try to get in? Can you imagine what the 1st XI would be?
Also asking @VP89 as the OP and resident fanboy
As I said before. Talented but nothing more. Give him time and we will see what future brings. Should be nowhere near our team and don't see him as someone who would be better then Solskjaer. Nothing to show in trophy room yet either.
Speaking about players and parking the manager aside - I think we need a quality center back with pace as well as Sancho to push ahead.
But from the scenario you made, I think Nagelsmann has the ability to push for the title after minor surgery on the squad. I do not rule out Ole of being capable to do similar, but I'd argue Nagalsmann is more qualified.
For what its worth this post is the first time I've compared the two managers in a post for many months, and yet you still call me a "fanboy".
People said the same about Klopp, how he hadn't won anything in Europe and his average last season. Then he went to Liverpool and created one of the best teams in the world, all the time we rotated with past it managers. But hey, atleast LvG and Mourinho won lots and lots of trophies right?
Next we'll sign Anchelotti if Ole doesn't work out.
Next we'll sign Anchelotti if Ole doesn't work out.
God knows what we will do if Ole doesn't work out. I reckon if this appointment failed, Woodward will succumb to bringing in a DoF and let him sort it out.
Klopp went 4 seasons before winning anything at Liverpool. Solskjaer have been our manager for 1,5 seasons and people want to get rid of him despite our club making big steps forward.
I don't think many of us want to "get rid of him". A lot of us, such as myself, are resigned to giving him a proper go next season. Not least because he earned it by finishing 3rd last season.
However it's not unreasonable to estimate there is only so far he can take us. His managerial pedigree is unproven so he can either surprise the footballing world and be a top manager for years to come, or he can reach his limit and fail to bridge the gap when expectations increase.
My personal view is a manager like Nagalsmann or Poch would have greater pedigree to take us toward a title challenge but I don't want Ole sacked this minute. Ole has earned the right to take us further and I'd only want to see a change when it's clear he's not up to the next level. Remember, top 4 is a cake walk compared to challenging for the league so it's a big test for Ole. We're all backing him, and hoping he can do it. I don't think that should be misunderstood when we praise other managers though.
As you know, Ive not watched RBL at all to know. So you think our squad of players is capable of playing RBL type football? What would be the surgery required? The players you mention seem to be exactly the type the club is looking for right now.
So if OGS isnt successful to desired standards, then sounds like the squad left behind would be very useful for the managers you admire?
re Fanboy: for me it's a gentle term of banter, nothing more, or a sarcastic way of recognising your authority on a subject
I've never said I want to get rid of him. Just people doubting Nagelsmann because he hasn't won any trophies, and saying Ole is better, is ridiculous.
Nagelsmann has achieved more in his short career already. It would take a very brave man to sack Ole, given what he has done this season, and bring in Nagelsmann (that is if he even wants to join). It would be similar to when Southampton sacked Nigel Atkins after he saved them from relegation to bring in Pochetinno.
Everyone hated that choice, Atkins didn't deserve to get sacked and in replacement they brought in a complete unknown from Spain. It turned out the right choice.
isn't the domestic treble pretty much automatic for PSG?
I'm only entertaining this because you ask specifically about Nagalsmann + Manchester United.As you know, Ive not watched RBL at all to know. So you think our squad of players is capable of playing RBL type football? What would be the survey required? The players you mention seem to be exactly the type the club is looking for right now.
re Fanboy: for me it's a gentle term of banter, nothing more, or a sarcastic way of recognising your authority on a subject
I think there are players available that would suit Nagalsmann's approach - I think he flourished greatly in breaks when Werner would work the channels and he would have something like this in Rashford. I'd be really excited to see what Nagalsmann do with our strikers (he took Werner from 19 goals under Ralph Rangnick to something like 34 goals this season).
From what I've seen he's manager who loves a high press and has proven to show better implementation of this philosophy than what I've seen so far with Manchester United. Our entire front line + Bruno are more than capable of following a high press.
I've not seen a massive amount of the Bundasliga as some posters here so I'd be welcome to being corrected, but the way I see Nagalsmann approach games he tends to press high centrally, forcing the opposition to wide and uncomfortable areas. I don't think much retooling is required in terms of our squad to suit Nagalsmann's philosophy. I believe Rashford/Bruno/Martial/(Sancho) are capable of implementing this press. His full backs are adventurous but he seems to really press and create a lot through the middle, or rely on a more modern "9" that works the channels. For this reason the lack of conviction in the final 3rd from say AWB/Shaw might not be too costly in implementing his style.
I've seen Leipzig presses so well, I struggle to think of many other sides that force errors so high up the pitch. This isn't something unique to Nagalasmann though, in the Premier League Klopp and Arteta have done a very good job in forcing mistakes through their press. If there is a qualm about Ole it's that I don't see us pressing well enough, which is odd because he was talking about how it was one of the most important areas to improve on before he was made permanent.
As I say, I believe we would need a quality center back who has pace, as his style of play will demand for better cover for Maguire (heck, anyone's style of play will need this).
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We can praise other managers. No problem with that. Nagelsman is a talent but have lot to prove before he should even be concidered. And Pochetinho have done well at spurs. But it seems to me that we tend to overvalue managers in other teams (like those two) and give them to much credit what they have done. When it comes to Solskjaer, we tend to undervalue what he has done. Solskjaer should stay as long as we see progress. Not being judged after every game like many of our fans do. Win - stay. Draw, lose - sack.
What do you see as achivement? What has Nagelsmann done that is bigger and better than what Solskjaer have done? Curious.
If Nagalsmann or Poch have a lot to do before being considered, you must also think Ole was given the job pre-maturely? If not, why?
From the first beginning. Absolutly. He came to lighten up the place. He did that and suddenly you could see the progress we were making and still are. You could see the vision and where we are moving. He deserved to be given contract. Does he make misstakes. Absolutly. I hope he learns from them.
So you can accept the premise that you don't need to do as much as traditionally thought to get a chance to manage Manchester United, in which case I don't see the problem of having Poch/Nagalsmann on a shortlist (should the need arise).