Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel

criticalanalysis

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They didn't create any chances, their only moment of note was from a set piece whereas we had the goal plus another good attempt by Greenwood.
Really struggling to remember this. Don't mean this question to be nasty, but could you please list their open chances? I thought we definitely had more sights of their goal than them ours.

They pressed well, agreed, but IIRC, they did a grand total of zero with all their possession They were forced to go on the sides because there was no way through the middle.

Even after the subs, United's formation didn't really change and it was an absolutely perfect decision not to change it - Leipzig simply could not get through. And when Upmecano got sucked into centre mid, because, again they were trying to stretch the United shape by going to the wings, Bruno played the first time ball for Rashford to go through on goal - it was a very, very smart move. And even if United hadn't made any subs, United wouldn't have conceded with the way the game was going.
Ummm...RBL had only 1 shot on target in the first half from 7 shots. United had 2 shots on target from 4 shots with 1 goal.

Leipzig compacted the space between their backline and United's backline, which made the middle of the park congested. It was hard for both teams to pass through the middle. That's not necessarily pressing as it is just positioning and shape when off the ball and defending.

Leipzig had one clear chance in the first half after United's goal but it was a tough near post angle that DDG was very much equal to.

The first half was cagey and tight. As you would expect for a high profile European match.

I also think you're discrediting how good this RBL team is by merely saying their two best players are their center halves....when its not like they just went to the CL semifinal a couple months ago by setting out a defensive stall. And they are top of the Bundesliga at the moment.

Finally, Nagelsmann will face PSG next and last time they faced off....PSG took them apart 3 goals to nil. They just shipped 5 goals against United.

Nagelsmann is still a good manager, but today he was out classed by another good manager, but one that doesn't get the respect he deserves.
I watched highlights of the first half again and yes my bad there wasn't much of open chances by Leipzig! I still think they played way above the sum of their parts due to coaching and their approach play. Their central defenders aside, none of their players would get into first 11 or squad even. I hate to simplify it like that but it's the truth. Ole has proved himself to be a pragmatic coach when it comes to facing well coached sides (who like to play with the ball) and gets his tactics mostly right but again the truth is that it's defending deep and counter attacking. It's not rocket science.

I'd criticise Nagelsmann the same. If he had Utd's squad, I could very well see us dominating everything in stats and getting beat by a Leipzig team managed by Ole, who'd park the bus.

Here's what I said on Sunday in the pre-match thread in response to:

https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-rb-leipzig.353/page-2#post-26268921

This is a much tougher game then PSG. Have followed Leipzig religiously for the last 18 months and there power, running game and workrate is streets ahead of us.

We have better players but they play to a style that is so hard to stop, they attack you from all sides and not afraid to leave gaps to suffocate you in your own box.
Have they come across a side as defensively and atheletically strong as us but also with loads of players with exceptional individual qualities?

I don't doubt they will play better as a team and even force us into our half but at the same time I doubt we will get pressed/overrun into oblivion and we will be able to exploit gaps for counter attacking and in transition.

It's styles match up as far as I'm concerned. If Ole sets the team up same as PSG then it'd be a fairly even game imo with us the favourite :nervous:
It still stands. In a one-off game I don't 'fear' many sides in Europe because if we defend deep and play with passion and not too much respect, we are a match against anyone not named Bayern Munich and the La Liga trio (Madrid mostly because of Simone and Barca/Real depending on their progress this season). I'm not saying we're favourable but using our pragmatic approach under Ole, it's a decent figher's chance.

Anyways I digress, this is to discuss about Nagelsmann and Leipzig. My comments about comparisons is specifically against ours and not what they've achieved, which is very admirable. Again it's both criticising and praise of both managers because Utd's squad is one of the most expensively assembled in Europe.
 
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Jim Beam

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Going to the other extreme. "The kid" is still one hell of a coach in the making and most talented outthere.

Looked proper pissed after that result too which is not a bad trait to have as a manager.
 

el3mel

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RB have no business playing on such level of football. The fact they're now a top team in the league and expected to do well in the CL is a good job for their manager. Yesterday looked like men vs boys on the pitch.

Beside the guy himself seems to think he's not ready for a bigger job at the moment. He rejected Madrid offer because he doesn't think he's not ready enough.

Hurrying on after a match for us against any young upcoming managers to have digs at them is pretty weird. While I'm not convinced with every single young manager, this guy is definitely a good one in the making.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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I liked how he ignored the interviewer after the game last night trying to get him to moan about VAR.

He refused to moan about any "tight" offside calls and said they needed to defend better. Good interview from him.
 

USREDEVIL

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RB have no business playing on such level of football. The fact they're now a top team in the league and expected to do well in the CL is a good job for their manager. Yesterday looked like men vs boys on the pitch.

Beside the guy himself seems to think he's not ready for a bigger job at the moment. He rejected Madrid offer because he doesn't think he's not ready enough.

Hurrying on after a match for us against any young upcoming managers to have digs at them is pretty weird. While I'm not convinced with every single young manager, this guy is definitely a good one in the making.
I agree. Their team is ok but shouldn't be beating us. Upemecano and Konate are solid players though. I've always liked Kevin Kampl at Bayer Leverkusen, but even during his peak he'd be a sub for us now. I was surprised to see him being used as a CDM yesterday (seemed like it) as he was always a playmaking central midfielder to me.
 

Wheato

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I'm still laughing my cock off at Julian Nagelsmann. Like a puffed up, preening peacock. Parading up and down the technical area, chest puffed out like he owned the place. By the 3rd goal, you could barely make out the top of his head hiding behind the brick wall in the away team dug out.
 

Foxbatt

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The fact that they are in the CL is a credit to him. I have not heard anything about a Leipzig player apart from Upemecano and it is also because he was talked about joining United. None of them would get into our side. It was a cagey affair and I think DeGea had to make better saves than their keeper but we scored more and those first two could have gone either way. No one dominated the match until the last 10 minutes when we did. He will learn from this defeat for sure. He is young and an upcoming manager. We got stuffed by 4-0 by Barca once and it does not make SAF a bad manager.
 

Dominos

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The last few pages of this thread :lol: you'd think he was the first manager to concede late goals on the counter when chasing a game.

It also might be worth remembering he's managing Leipzig, he should be massive underdog coming to Old Trafford. United have been on the bad end of results like this countless times.
 

KM

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The last few pages of this thread :lol: you'd think he was the first manager to concede late goals on the counter when chasing a game.

It also might be worth remembering he's managing Leipzig, he should be massive underdog coming to Old Trafford. United have been on the bad end of results like this countless times.
Well it wasn't certainly like that before the match started. Most of the media and fans here were expecting him to outclass our PE teacher. We weren't favorites going into the match.

On the whole though, I hope he does well with Leipzig in Bundesliga, their success really pisses off the German posters here which isn't a bad thing.
 

McTerminator

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I am really quite disappointed reading this thread. The best message I have heard coming through consistently this season is that whether you are Ole in or Ole out you should want the guy to do well and should try to enjoy it when he does, we are all fans of the same club afterall.

Nagelsmann is a fantastic coach and one game does not define him. However, I don't understand this need to defend his credentials by belittling what Ole has achieved here.

People want to talk about squads and player quality as if it completely absolves Nagelsmann and as if it's Ole's only reason for success. However, before Ole took charge many of the players that are shining for us of late were written off by large portions of the fan base as sub-par, including the man of the moment Marcus Rashford MBE! I would encourage people to take a step back and ask themselves what makes a top player? Is it purely individual quality or can a coach and a system have a massive impact on a players individual recognition also? (answer: of course it can)

Bottom line is this. While we have always known our players had natural quality, we are now lauding our players, because they are showing their quality on the pitch under Ole. Whether that's due to tactics, culture, or man management it doesn't matter. Our players are performing for Ole and that is why we now think they are better than Leipzigs.

Don't forget that Jose Mourinho famously sold Salah and KDB as they weren't good enough for Chelsea. Give the manager credit where it's due!

As a disclaimer, I acknowledge that we still need to find consistency and have made some top quality signings since Ole took over, but for a change they are still deemed to be top class players 12 months on (Bruno). That is not something we are used to from the last seven years!

Lastly, to return to topic. Nagelsmann is a top coach and has clearly drilled his side well. I could see him doing well in the prem one day with us or someone else.
 
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Robbie Boy

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Good bounce back tonight. Even enough game in terms of possession but Leipzig had 9 shots in total to PSG's 4.
 
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Samid

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Good win. I appreciate him for sticking to his principles but ultimately if he wants to win trophies he needs to add a pragmatic dimension to his tactics. They were getting pegged back in the final 10 minutes and instead of taking the sting out of the game they tried to fight fire with fire. Their GK caught the ball and got rid of it straight away instead of killing a few seconds. Upamecano was for some reason acting as a CF on one of the counter attacks and then he had no chance of getting back into position when PSG won back the ball and attacked. The last 20 minutes against us were suicidal. As fun as it to watch completely gung-ho tactics, it's also a weakness that is easier exploited by better teams the further you go in tournaments. You have to have a pragmatic side if you want to win things.
 

hasanejaz88

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Good win. I appreciate him for sticking to his principles but ultimately if he wants to win trophies he needs to add a pragmatic dimension to his tactics. They were getting pegged back in the final 10 minutes and instead of taking the sting out of the game they tried to fight fire with fire. Their GK caught the ball and got rid of it straight away instead of killing a few seconds. Upamecano was for some reason acting as a CF on one of the counter attacks and then he had no chance of getting back into position when PSG won back the ball and attacked. The last 20 minutes against us were suicidal. As fun as it to watch completely gung-ho tactics, it's also a weakness that is easier exploited by better teams the further you go in tournaments. You have to have a pragmatic side if you want to win things.
True. Klopp movement away from his pure gegenpressing to a more pragmatic form, where his central midfielders are more defensive than offensive, is what got him to record more than 90 points in two consecutive seasons.

Nagelsmann will learn though, it's hard to believe that he is still only 33 and RB is his first club that would be expected to win most matches (after taking charge of relative minnows Hoffenheim) so he has had to move away from playing teams that would give him space to attack to ones that will sit deep and counter. Not to say he won't change as the tournament goes on, he has adopted more conservative styles against bigger teams in the BL like Bayern and Dortmund, but you can also see that he has confidence in his approach against teams he deems to be technically weaker (especially in midfield).

If they do qualify, it would be interesting to see if he plays the same style against a team Barcelona or Madrid, teams who while are big names, certainly aren't the force they once were. I like the confidence he has in himself and while it can lead to 5-0's, it also continuously improves the implementation. You can imagine with better players he can dominate any opposition with these tactics, similar to what Flick is doing with Bayern (though I have a feeling Bayern will definitely be beaten badly by a big team in the UCL this season :D).
 

Robbie Boy

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Good win. I appreciate him for sticking to his principles but ultimately if he wants to win trophies he needs to add a pragmatic dimension to his tactics. They were getting pegged back in the final 10 minutes and instead of taking the sting out of the game they tried to fight fire with fire. Their GK caught the ball and got rid of it straight away instead of killing a few seconds. Upamecano was for some reason acting as a CF on one of the counter attacks and then he had no chance of getting back into position when PSG won back the ball and attacked. The last 20 minutes against us were suicidal. As fun as it to watch completely gung-ho tactics, it's also a weakness that is easier exploited by better teams the further you go in tournaments. You have to have a pragmatic side if you want to win things.
He's 33 and managing at the top level. Plenty of time to learn and adapt.
 

VivaObertan

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Good win. I appreciate him for sticking to his principles but ultimately if he wants to win trophies he needs to add a pragmatic dimension to his tactics. They were getting pegged back in the final 10 minutes and instead of taking the sting out of the game they tried to fight fire with fire. Their GK caught the ball and got rid of it straight away instead of killing a few seconds. Upamecano was for some reason acting as a CF on one of the counter attacks and then he had no chance of getting back into position when PSG won back the ball and attacked. The last 20 minutes against us were suicidal. As fun as it to watch completely gung-ho tactics, it's also a weakness that is easier exploited by better teams the further you go in tournaments. You have to have a pragmatic side if you want to win things.
Yeah I agree with your first line completely. PSG had a front 3 of Kean, Di Maria and Sarabia tonight but created chances for fun in the first half. Even in the second half when PSG had 10 men, they were leaving massive gaps and relying on the opposition lacking the necessary quality to complete the attack. In the PL or later stages of the UCL, that methodology just won't cut it.
 

sangria

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True. Klopp movement away from his pure gegenpressing to a more pragmatic form, where his central midfielders are more defensive than offensive, is what got him to record more than 90 points in two consecutive seasons.

Nagelsmann will learn though, it's hard to believe that he is still only 33 and RB is his first club that would be expected to win most matches (after taking charge of relative minnows Hoffenheim) so he has had to move away from playing teams that would give him space to attack to ones that will sit deep and counter. Not to say he won't change as the tournament goes on, he has adopted more conservative styles against bigger teams in the BL like Bayern and Dortmund, but you can also see that he has confidence in his approach against teams he deems to be technically weaker (especially in midfield).

If they do qualify, it would be interesting to see if he plays the same style against a team Barcelona or Madrid, teams who while are big names, certainly aren't the force they once were. I like the confidence he has in himself and while it can lead to 5-0's, it also continuously improves the implementation. You can imagine with better players he can dominate any opposition with these tactics, similar to what Flick is doing with Bayern (though I have a feeling Bayern will definitely be beaten badly by a big team in the UCL this season :D).
It might be interesting looking back with hindsight at the Liverpool-Hoffenheim CL tie, with Nagelsmann against a then gung ho Klopp.
 

Wayne's World

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Hipster manager and all that
But the way they PRESS!

Feck me, i'd take him instead of Phealan as an assistant.

Fergie always had the balls to take great assistants who were up to date with football in the specific time.
Hi there Nostradamus.

Please also give me next weeks lotto's numbers.
Better than Ole apparently :confused:
Foreign muck and a ponce. Julian Nincompoop more like. Flavor of the month, faux tactical genius. Ole has shown him for what he is, the emperor is naked, etc. and so on.

Always rated Marco Rose more anyway.
Like him but Absolutely schooled today. Love when he went to take a sit
He's shit. Next.
Still a fraud and a hipster tonight lads yeah?
 

FootballHQ

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Made some big calls tonight. Thought Poulsen was a cert to start upfront. And Tyler Adams.

They've got some fantastic counter attacking players in final third so can interchange 6 of them into 3 positions and the level won't drop too much.
 

Jagga7

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I'm still laughing my cock off at Julian Nagelsmann. Like a puffed up, preening peacock. Parading up and down the technical area, chest puffed out like he owned the place. By the 3rd goal, you could barely make out the top of his head hiding behind the brick wall in the away team dug out.
:lol: :lol: :lol: , I opened the thread and this was one the 1st message I read.
 

Wayne's World

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Nice job bro. Ole and our back line have him a free win but go off
But it doesn't count when his backline did the same in our game? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I stand by my point, he's the best young manager in the world, another Klopp in the making and we need him here instead of Ole
 

Pexbo

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They’ve not even been that good, we’ve been atrocious.