June internationals (WC qualifiers and Nations League)

GlastonSpur

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To improve England:

* Start Grealish - drop Mount
* Start Dier - drop Maguire
* Start Bowen - drop Sako
 

sparx99

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To reiterate, a player isn't offside until he actually touches or attempts to touch the ball. Chasing after it isn't the same thing. Being in an offside position isn't an offence in the rules of the game.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside#:~:text=a player in an offside position is moving towards the,occurred before the offside offence


To query again - do you believe that you can wipe a player out and get away with it just because they were in an offside position?
(e.g. not yet 'offside', but in an offside position)
I think if a player ‘fouls’ a player in an offside position then the offside is the first offence. You are in an offside position not offside possession. If anything the way the rules are now are encouraging defenders to dive in on attackers when they may well be offside. That’s putting players at risk of injury.

Obviously if there is serious foul play then that should be judged separately.
 

CloneMC16

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He was underwhelming at City but Grealish really should start. With Foden not being selected how do you not start Grealish?

He came on and was the best attacker on the pitch. England should have won.
Southgate has his favourites and continuously picks them. Grealish usually plays well for England when he gets subbed on. He should be starting games for sure.
 

joedirt87

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Foden/Saka and Sterling will start every game at the World Cup, it's not even worth getting upset about.
 

cjj

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No but I've seen it happen plenty of times tbf. Doesn't mean the ref can't penalise someone if they just blatantly hack someone with no attempt to play the ball because they know the guy if offside.

The rules are stupid. Running onto a ball = not an attempt to play a ball? Makes sense.
As per the rule

when a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
Kane was moving towards the ball with the intention of playing it.
He was fouled before playing or attempting to play it.

He didn't attempt to play it because running towards a ball isn't going to affect its trajectory, unless he's Obi Wan Kaneobi.
 

sparx99

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Southgate has his favourites and continuously picks them. Grealish usually plays well for England when he gets subbed on. He should be starting games for sure.
I don’t like to defend Southgate as he’s a little lacking in balls for me. However, his consistency in selection has been a big part of his ‘success’. He takes his time to select players, drop players and brings new players in gradually. I think it’s been a deliberate part of his attempt to have a similar way of playing over several years.
 

InspiRED

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I like Southgate the person, all the things he says are good, conducts himself well, great guy etc etc. Completely ambitionless having him as boss though and can't help but feel like the former qualities play too much importance in his appointment.
 

cjj

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I think if a player ‘fouls’ a player in an offside position then the offside is the first offence. You are in an offside position not offside possession. If anything the way the rules are now are encouraging defenders to dive in on attackers when they may well be offside. That’s putting players at risk of injury.

Obviously if there is serious foul play then that should be judged separately.
Crikey people - read the rules I linked: "It is not an offence to be in an offside position."

You're not committing an offside offence until you are trying to actually touch the ball. Being in an offside position isn't the first offence unless the player touches or tries to touch the ball before the foul.
It would be far more of a risk of injury if defending players were given carte blanche to snap the attackers legs off just because they were in an offside position.
 

sparx99

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As per the rule



Kane was moving towards the ball with the intention of playing it.
He was fouled before playing or attempting to play it.

He didn't attempt to play it because running towards a ball isn't going to affect its trajectory, unless he's Obi Wan Kaneobi.
So in theory, you could play through balls to an ‘offside’ player who goes towards the ball. He could then deliberately slow down to get a defender to run into him or trip him and that would be a pen/red card and not offside?
 

sparx99

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Crikey people - read the rules I linked: "It is not an offence to be in an offside position."

You're not committing an offside offence until you are trying to actually touch the ball. Being in an offside position isn't the first offence unless the player touches or tries to touch the ball before the foul.
It would be far more of a risk of injury if defending players were given carte blanche to snap the attackers legs off just because they were in an offside position.
I understand the way it’s written. It’s just completely stupid.
 

Red the Bear

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Bizarre, wasn't it? You do not have to force all of your best players into the starting line-up. He could have alternated Lampard and Gerrard, one as a starter the other coming on at 60/70 mins.
Yeah, really fecked up that generation.
The thing is I genuinely don't know if he was just a coward who bowed to FA's demands or genuinely believed in playing all the best players (which could be a possibility as he had done so in his time with lazio).
A lot of great managers make that one choices for the betterment of the team,he couldn't and it cost him.
 

Pink Moon

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As per the rule



Kane was moving towards the ball with the intention of playing it.
He was fouled before playing or attempting to play it.

He didn't attempt to play it because running towards a ball isn't going to affect its trajectory, unless he's Obi Wan Kaneobi.
And like I said... the rules are stupid.
 

Longshanks

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Foden/Saka and Sterling will start every game at the World Cup, it's not even worth getting upset about.
Sterling and saka are to similar to play together, both greedy pace merchants not a huge amount of creativity. It was amazing the difference in England once grealish came on and went out wide a genuinely technical creative player causing Germany all kind of problems and was unlucky not to grab a couple of assists.

Saka was terrible all night aswell how he stayed on for so long is beyond me.
 

sparx99

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Crikey people - read the rules I linked: "It is not an offence to be in an offside position."

You're not committing an offside offence until you are trying to actually touch the ball. Being in an offside position isn't the first offence unless the player touches or tries to touch the ball before the foul.
It would be far more of a risk of injury if defending players were given carte blanche to snap the attackers legs off just because they were in an offside position.
That wouldn’t happen though. If there’s a chance the flag goes up you stay on your feet and try to put the attacker off and if you make a two-footed lunge you can still get a red. Serious foul play could supersede anything else.
 

BayernFan87

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Always surprising how few know the rules for such things.



e.g. Kane wasn't offside because he didn't touch or attempt to touch the ball. Offside isn't applicable until he does. He was fouled before then.

If you think about it, it's not like you can go full carnage on a player just because he's offside and get away with it. Foul is a foul
So it's no offside because although he could have touched the ball, he didn't yet AND it's a relevant foul because although he didn't touch the ball yet he probably could have?

Thats bs
 

Deery

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That wouldn’t happen though. If there’s a chance the flag goes up you stay on your feet and try to put the attacker off and if you make a two-footed lunge you can still get a red. Serious foul play could supersede anything else.
Yeah, must be in a situation were there is a first and second phase of play and the player is not interfering with play then makes a run to the loose ball but is fouled. Not a striker in the box going for goal.
 

InspiRED

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Sterling and saka are to similar to play together, both greedy pace merchants not a huge amount of creativity. It was amazing the difference in England once grealish came on and went out wide a genuinely technical creative player causing Germany all kind of problems and was unlucky not to grab a couple of assists.

Saka was terrible all night aswell how he stayed on for so long is beyond me.
The explanation is really predictable, sadly. Southgate, like all limited managers, needs to rely on 'pace in behind' for his goals. We spent the Euros struggling til eventually bringing Grealish on, and the time he really shat the bed was the Italy final where he waited to minute 100 to make that change.
 

KirkDuyt

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I'll say it again, just bring in the stop clock and have two 30 minutes halves.
The dutch 2nd division wants to do a pilot with that next season. Fifa have to approve it though. Personally hope they do. Will be funny to see players time wasting out of sheer habit.
 

do.ob

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The dutch 2nd division wants to do a pilot with that next season. Fifa have to approve it though. Personally hope they do. Will be funny to see players time wasting out of sheer habit.
I'm all for using a stop clock, but wasting time will still make sense, even if only to break momentum or take a breather after some intense pressing. But it'll be far easier to stomach with the clock stopped.
 

CloneMC16

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I don’t like to defend Southgate as he’s a little lacking in balls for me. However, his consistency in selection has been a big part of his ‘success’. He takes his time to select players, drop players and brings new players in gradually. I think it’s been a deliberate part of his attempt to have a similar way of playing over several years.
I get that and that is a fair point. What bothers me is he keeps picking Mount. I just don't see what he's bringing in an attacking sense. I would far rather see Grealish in there than Mount.
 

NewYorkRed

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:lol: :lol:

Would love to play you at football sometime, would be the easiest game of my life :lol::D
Damn another internet Ronaldinho. My bad dude had I known you were that good at footy I would never have dared to question your incredibly wrong opinion.

Easy to claim who’s better than who between two complete strangers on the internet. You’re just retorting to sillyness now because you don’t have an argument bud. Cya.
 

FlapR

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Christ this forum is awful for international games. Take a minute to watch the replay and think. Yes VAR is shit but it served its purpose here.
 

SCP

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To improve England:

* Start Grealish - drop Mount
* Start Dier - drop Maguire
* Start Bowen - drop Sako
Southgate will never drop Maguire for Dier, can you honestly say Maguire performances are terrible for England?
 

GlastonSpur

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Southgate will never drop Maguire for Dier, can you honestly say Maguire performances are terrible for England?
Not terrible, but not that good either. Dier is a better CB IMO. He's come on leaps and bounds since he began to specialise in that position.
 

SCP

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Not terrible, but not that good either. Dier is a better CB IMO. He's come on leaps and bounds since he began to specialise in that position.
I know very well Dier, always felt he should be a CB since Sporting youth teams, for reasons I don’t know when he reached professional football somehow in Sporting first and later at Spurs they thought he was more suited to midfield, for me it was nonsense who prejudiced him, he is a nice bloke even if he left for peanuts.

I know working under Conte has been good for him,but don’t understand why drop Maguire in the first place and perhaps Southgate doesn’t have him in his plans for the future, but he is good enough to play alongside a starter for Argentina so don’t know why some here think Dier is a terrible player, if he was Conte would drop him off.
 

GlastonSpur

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I know very well Dier, always felt he should be a CB since Sporting youth teams, for reasons I don’t know when he reached professional football somehow in Sporting first and later at Spurs they thought he was more suited to midfield, for me it was nonsense who prejudiced him, he is a nice bloke even if he left for peanuts.

I know working under Conte has been good for him,but don’t understand why drop Maguire in the first place and perhaps Southgate doesn’t have him in his plans for the future, but he is good enough to play alongside a starter for Argentina so don’t know why some here think Dier is a terrible player, if he was Conte would drop him off.
Yep. Dier is a definite first choice starter for Conte. Even if we sign Bastoni from Inter (doubtful, but possible), Dier would play in the middle of a back three - Romero - Dier - Bastoni ... which would be phenomenally good.
 

Lay

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