Jurriën Timber

Cassidy

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He does have to start though.

Considering there is VVD, De Ligt, De Vrij, Ake, Blind and Dumfries in contention, that's quite a gamble.
Plus, he's the youngest one in the squad.

A move to Manchester United makes him a better contender.
How?
 

Daslogisch

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Him being compatible with 2 others at the back with him is a good point, but I do find his footballing IQ and anticipation get a tiny bit romantisized, as was his tine at United for some reason.If he was a bit stronger and a bit faster, Im convinced he'd be one of the best defenders of his generation, but he's been no more than adequate outside the Dutch league.

I like Blind mind you and think he should start, but at the left where there is plenty of defensive coverage from 3 tough guys in the centre. And because I think Malacia isnt ready.
I don't agree about Blind only being good for the Dutch league. He's been massive in CL for Ajax. I actually think he's a better CB than LB and in his best days he's world class. On his regular day he might not be that, but still solid. I think his lack of speed is a bigger problem at LB than at CB.

I think so far v.Gaal agrees with you regarding Malacia. However Malacia did show himself last season and with a good assist in the match against Wales. Defensively he did nothing wrong. If he has a good run beginning of next year I think Malacia has a chance. But the same goes for Wijndal. Van Gaal really wants a left-footed CB and if we have a proper LB then Blind is the obvious choice there.
 

Bilbo

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You only get better by playing against better players.

And, no disrespect to the Dutch league, but the PL is way better.

By that rationale, i'd always choose a player playing in the PL.
Agreed, but only if they are playing and that seems to be the issue here. We've seen countless examples of players needing time to settle in the PL.
 

Cassidy

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You only get better by playing against better players.

And, no disrespect to the Dutch league, but the PL is way better.

By that rationale, i'd always choose a player playing in the PL.
So by that logic he should play for the UCL club next season instead of Europa League then
 

iammemphis

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If he doesn't feel ready to enter into club in crisis and to take all that on and perform in the most important position, when he can gain more CL experience with Ajax whilst maturing further, then it could be a wise decision. Wouldn't suprise me if he has a verbal agreement with ETH to join next season if we qualify for the Champions League, when he might feel more ready to join. We are a big gamble at the minute and I don't want people to join if they aren't currently up to the challenge.
 

SATA

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The scenes if and when Timber stays at Ajax next season and van Gaal doesn’t start him in his world cup XI. It’s surely Daley, De Ligt and van Dijk as the 3 starting centrebacks?
 

Daslogisch

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The scenes if and when Timber stays at Ajax next season and van Gaal doesn’t start him in his world cup XI. It’s surely Daley, De Ligt and van Dijk as the 3 starting centrebacks?
Probably De Vrij instead of De Ligt, maybe Ake instead of Blind. Timber is indeed not likely to start. But playing regularly at Ajax gives him a fighting chance at a starting place. Going to another club (not just United) and risking being a bench player in the beginning of the season and he's out of the WC completely.
 

glasgow 21

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Probably De Vrij instead of De Ligt, maybe Ake instead of Blind. Timber is indeed not likely to start. But playing regularly at Ajax gives him a fighting chance at a starting place. Going to another club (not just United) and risking being a bench player in the beginning of the season and he's out of the WC completely.
Yeah Timber needs to stay at Ajax, as per Van Gaal ,as he only picks prime starters like Ake and Bergwijn.
 

redcucumber

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Yes.

Although, back to the numbers game.
It's 38 games in the PL vs 6 games in CL.

Strong league trumps strong cups in consistency and tenacity.
As has been widely reported, the issue appears to come down to Timber wanting playing time assurances which I'm sure Ten Hag and the club are reluctant to provide. Also, the World Cup is in the winter (so not 38 games as you mentioned). There aren't that many games between the start of the season and the tournament commencing, especially for a 21 year old coming from Holland to the PL attempting to establish himself. Lisandro Martinez is 24, a first-team starter for Argentina, and at a more advanced stage in his career than Timber, who also has uber troll LvG as his national team manager, warning him of the perils of moving to United.

van Gaal strongly advised Ten Hag not to join us, too. He quite clearly has a bee in his bonnet about the club. I don't blame Timber if the ramblings of van Gaal have spooked him somewhat.
 

SeanyC

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It’s not a threat, ffs. Ake gets into the team because he’s left footed and Van Gaal is a typical Dutch footy weirdo who must play with a left and a right footed CB for balance — especially in a back three. You should remember that!
It clearly is a threat, if Ake doesn’t play for city yet gets into the Dutch team then what’s stopping Timber coming to us? You are too blind to see LVG has it in for us, you should remember that!
 

Cassidy

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It clearly is a threat, if Ake doesn’t play for city yet gets into the Dutch team then what’s stopping Timber coming to us? You are too blind to see LVG has it in for us, you should remember that!
One is established and the other is only on the cusp of the team
 

ThierryHenry14

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Seems logical for a young player at his age prefer playing regularly in a small club for his development than the bench in a big club with bigger salary. He is only 21, if he is good he will get his big move eventually.
 

jem

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Yawn. That pointless argument was already covered multiple times.
I don't have time to trawl through the thread, so can you give me a brief outline as to why that argument doesn't make sense?
 

DutchRVN

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It’s not that strange, ake is the only left footed defender we have. Blind isn’t a option as a central defender for the national team anymore. Timber has a lot more competition on the right side. De ligt & de vrij are his direct competitors. VVD is untouchable. And for RB position Dumfries is the number one by a mile. Also the up and coming talents are right footed.
 

Daslogisch

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I don't have time to trawl through the thread, so can you give me a brief outline as to why that argument doesn't make sense?
Quite simply put, Bergwijn and Ake don't face the same competition as Timber. If Ake plays its only because he's left footed. I see the benefit, but don't agree that it should matter that much, but that's LvG's philosophy.
 

Charles Miller

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Manager that want to control the possession would prefer a lefty CB in the left and a right footed in the right. If the CB plays with his dominant foot he can make straight and fast passes to the middle or to wide positions. If you put a right footed on the left, everytime he gets the ball he would need to adjust his body orientation before passing it, alowing the adversary to press him or to mark the wide players. Otherwise he would make diagonal passes with his right foot, what tends to slow down the game.
 

Relevated

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A good point well made
Another point I've been pondering over is that if we aren't able to guarantee him minutes then is there really any point? Do we really need someone from the Dutch league, who doesnt even believe in his own ability by the looks of it, to come and potentially just warm our bench? Shouldnt we be looking for players, with complete conviction, that they'll be entering into our first 11 and benching the likes of lindelof and maguire? Does this then signify maguire is the favourite? If so, why?

There are so many questions raised with this transfer.
 

JJ12

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The only difference is Ake was playing regularly when he entered the national team fray and has been consistently part of the National set up since?

Only line of thinking I can see other than ‘LVG just hates United’
 

El-Manos

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Honest question. If you were the player, young upcoming and possible spot in the WC, would you risk all of that by coming here?
Switching from Ajax to Manchester United ? Absolutely. If he believes in his own ability he should have no fear.
 

Van Piorsing

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He just simply doesn’t like us. Even tried to talk ETH out of taking the United job.
Timber for Man United is matter of time imo. We've just hired one of the most influential Ajax managers in their history just behind Rinus Michels and couple of others and perhaps this is excactly what bugs Louie who wants to show who's the real Dutch boss.

I don't think any of us want to see Lindelof-Maguire combo next season and hunt for additional defender is natural move to progress. Matter of time... and if he doesn't come it means ETH found someone more suited for his United project.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Timber for Man United is matter of time imo. We've just hired one of the most influential Ajax managers in their history just behind Rinus Michels and couple of others and perhaps this is excactly what bugs Louie who wants to show who's the real Dutch boss.

I don't think any of us want to see Lindelof-Maguire combo next season and hunt for additional defender is natural move to progress. Matter of time... and if he doesn't come it means ETH found someone more suited for his United project.
C'mon, LvG is clear of EtH for now in the pantheon of Dutch managers. Van Gaal won a Champions League with Ajax and produced one of the greatest groups of young players ever seen in Europe and then went on to manage successfully at Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

Ten Hag has been excellent for Ajax and they play beautiful football but no way is he near Van Gaal's influence yet.
 
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Van Piorsing

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C'mon, LvG is clear of EtH for now in the pantheon of Dutch managers. Van Gaal won a Champions League with Ajax and produced one of the greatest groups of young players ever seen in Europe and then went on to manage successfully at Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

Ten Hag has been excellent for Ajax and they play beautiful football but no way is he near Van Gaal's influence yet.
Not recently I'm afraid.

LvG lost huge part of his significance, mainly thanks to his United regime, where he had all the budget, power over players, Woodward spending here and there, but in the end Louie decided United will be overtactical mess without end product. If not Lingard's volley in FA Cup final, this regime could sink in total disaster bracket.

While history is on Louie's side and he'll always be legend, the future is Ten Hag's, hopefully his energy and influence will be used by United expertly. We could gain a lot, including few talents.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Not recently I'm afraid.

LvG lost huge part of his significance, mainly thanks to his United regime, where he had all the budget, power over players, Woodward spending here and there, but in the end Louie decided United will be overtactical mess without end product. If not Lingard's volley in FA Cup final, this regime would sink in total disaster bracket.

While history is on Louie's side and he'll always be legend, the future is Ten Hag's, hopefully his energy and influence will be used by United expertly. We could gain a lot, including few talents.
I mean every manager becomes out of touch eventually (Ferguson being a massive outlier in that regard) - we've seen that with Mourinho who looked completely unstoppable for some time and I'm sure we'll eventually see it with Guardiola and Klopp in time. But by the time he came to United, LvG was way past his peak and I don't think he should be judged on that. Like judging Messi's career based on his time with PSG.
 

jem

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Quite simply put, Bergwijn and Ake don't face the same competition as Timber. If Ake plays its only because he's left footed. I see the benefit, but don't agree that it should matter that much, but that's LvG's philosophy.
Cheers!