Came in here to say the same thing. I haven't seen him before this season, not even highlights and despite watching quite a few Chelsea games this year, I have absolutely no idea at what kind of player he is and what his qualities are.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Really? I thought he was comfortably the best attacker of the 4 we started with (granted, that's a low bar). He was hampered by braindead play from his teammates - there was one moment where he got the ball between the lines and all three of our other attackers ran straight forward like headless chickens, leaving Havertz completely on his own to deal with 2-3 defenders. It was absurd.
I thought he looked very clearly more comfortable as a 10 today than he's looked as an 8 this season, the problem was that the team as a whole was completely clueless as to how to create attacking patterns in this different formation (not that we've looked much better in a 4-3-3, mind).
Surely you can't be happy with what he's producing right now? He may come good but right now, he's not looking like the most expensive German player of all time.
He looked good at the backend of last season getting into the box and scoring goals with his head. Think Chelsea should have him be more like Fernandes and be a box threat. Chelsea should have the players to work the ball from deeper without him
I do think he has lots of intangibles in his game, he had a remarkable goal scoring record when very young and a lot of the goals weren't spectacular, just had an ability to be in the right place and a maturity to be calm.
Similar to what people say about Donny vdb here, i think he is a real team player that will improve a good team but maybe not drag a struggling team up as well as his price tag might suggest
Of course I'm not.
Writing off oppo players is fun and all, but he is only 21 and 6/7 months into playing for a new club in a new country. Right now he's struggling to find his role in the team. Plenty of time to get it together though.
I did actually call him the German Lingard and got dogs abuse saying how great he will be in the premiership. actually feel i have insulted Jesse now
Personally would play him in a 4-2-3-1 behind Giroud with Ziyech and Pulisic wide. I don't know. Right now he's a 75M+ player who doesn't deserve to start for a 9th placed team so...
I have not watched a lot of him but probably another so called „system player“.
He seems to need players around him that have a similar vision for spaces and movements, and a manager who is able to implement that kind of system.
Right now Lampard seems overwhelmed by all the different players he got and how to put the puzzle together.
He seems to need players around him that have a similar vision for spaces and movements, and a manager who is able to implement that kind of system.
Right now Lampard seems overwhelmed by all the different players he got and how to put the puzzle together.
Unsurprisingly this ‘versatility’ of him being just as good at no.8 or no.10 or RW doesn’t seem to ring quite true so far. All it does is prove he’s an absolute managerial conundrum to fit into a side because you genuinely can’t see where he plays best.
Chelsea signed too many players. It rarely ever turns out well trying to integrate that many new signings especially when the bulk of them haven't played a single minute in the league.
Is it any surprise their best signing has been Ben Chilwell? Not for me it's not.
Is it any surprise their best signing has been Ben Chilwell? Not for me it's not.
He was Brilliant For Leverkusen, and personally I think if played in the right Position and the players around him all start clicking he would set it on fire. However I see alot of Parrellels with Donnys situation .Donny like Kai played in a system that brought the best out in his game ,the main difference is we havent really seen Donny as he is being given time to adjust to the PL and our style, and the fact that the PL is a step up from the Bundasliga and a couple of steps up from the Eredivise they will both need time to find their feet . Frank seems to be trying to find a way to line up his Talent in a way that works and it hasnt really worked yet. I think Like Donny it will be next season before you really start to see the best of Havertz .
This is a player, who can turn out to be a waste of money. I cannot see, why Chelsea sent so much money on him. He has shown very little for them. But of course you have to remember that he had COVID, and therefore maybe have fatigue after that yet. But it does not look good to him.
That AM in a 3 behind the striker is a very focal position and I don’t think Havertz has shown anything to deserve having the team built around him.
I agree he is young and has plenty of time. The bigger worry for chelsea though would be that he’s not really shown moments or signs that he’s going to be able to do it on this stage. You would normally get moments of genius or brilliance from young talent who is expected to go on and do big things. It would have to be a massive turnaround for him to start performing to the level Chelsea would have expected.
Looks completely lost in that midfield. If Lampard had a clue of his best 11 then this wouldn’t be an issue
Quite funny reading the first few pages of this thread now.
I always said I never really saw it with him, especially in a midfield/10 position in England. You just don't get the time and space on the ball like you do in Germany, he seems like he wants 3/4 touches before he makes his mind up and then hasn't got the aggression to fight them off when closed down.
I still maintain he'd be best as a striker/false 9, but lets be honest for the hype so many bought into, he sure doesn't look like that level of a talent.
We'll see though, he might just be a slow adapter.
I always said I never really saw it with him, especially in a midfield/10 position in England. You just don't get the time and space on the ball like you do in Germany, he seems like he wants 3/4 touches before he makes his mind up and then hasn't got the aggression to fight them off when closed down.
I still maintain he'd be best as a striker/false 9, but lets be honest for the hype so many bought into, he sure doesn't look like that level of a talent.
We'll see though, he might just be a slow adapter.
A week, 2 or so ago there was an interview with Peter Bosz (current Leverkusen coach, former Ajax) who said that he doesn't see what idea Lampard has for Havertz. Which I can agree on.
Another interesting comment in that interview: He doesn't see why Man Utd. bought VdB cause they (Man Utd) already have the best player (Fernandes) of the league on his position.
Anyway I believe that Lampard won't be coach for the next season (maybe even not in March). Then we shall see if Havertz is really a flop or he was just played wrongly.
Another interesting comment in that interview: He doesn't see why Man Utd. bought VdB cause they (Man Utd) already have the best player (Fernandes) of the league on his position.
Anyway I believe that Lampard won't be coach for the next season (maybe even not in March). Then we shall see if Havertz is really a flop or he was just played wrongly.
VDB was signed to replace Pereira & Lingard as Bruno's backup and might be a next season plan when Pogba leaves United.
Not sure what was the plan with Havertz. Was he signed to be Mount's backup?
I think Havertz would have been used and coached better by Pep. Havertz is a no 10 or false 9 player and I think Pep would love to have him playing in his false 9. His quality is in his link up play and in the opposition box, Frank wasted him so much playing him bit further from the goal.
I said this to a Chelsea mate yesterday, and he told me that he was playing well....and then they took him off. If that was very good performance he must not have done much before.
He’s been in the PL 5 months
I hardly see him take shots at goal, which is rather unfortunate because he's got a great shot on him, left or right foot.
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I don't see Chelsea's plan at all. Werner for instance is not a stand alone striker. He needs a physical striker up-front to support him like Poulsen. (Giroud is just way too slow for that, despite he is that fitting puzzle piece. )
Havertz could play at the same position as Werner but in different style, playing not as deep as Werner but with better dribbling and combination. So I agree that Pep might be the better coach for Havertz but actually I don't see him fitting into the Man City squad.
Anyway this season is a warm-up also considering the (his) circumstances. Lately next season he has to prove himself.
Oosh pick those out!
He will be alright in the end, I think playing as a 10 in the prem is a tough gig, he will get there.
Aguero has been unfit and Jesus has been injured or ill which forced Pep to play Bernardo or De Bruyne as false 9, if anything Havertz will fit into that false 9. He’s been used and coached wrongly by Lampard/Chelsea now. I heard Havertz wants to play as 8 but clearly that’s not his quality, his quality is his movement, scoring goals & linking up, no 10 or no 9, anywhere near the goal.
I don't see Havertz as false 9 currently, simply of his physical strength. If he gets 10kg more then maybe, but as it stands right now he will get eaten by the likes of VVD, Silva etc. .
Not sure if false 9 requires physical strength. It’s about movement, linking up and finding space and create space. Very suitable to Pep’s players since his players are about movement and intelligence.
Coaching & tactic are important, blindly put players upfront also doesn’t mean players will function properly.
What really concerns me is that fact that Werner has always played up front with another striker or a 10 in close proximity.
Havertz has played in a lot of positions but clearly suits the 10, behind a striker and has stated he prefers this position.
Therefore to utilise them, with Pulisic and Ziyech either side, it doesn’t take a genius to realise the 4231 formation is key to implement all players in their correct positions.
Lampard is hell bent on having 3 central midfielders though and it completely nullifies our attack. It’s actually concerning when you have clowns like Jermaine Jenus recognising this is what is needed. Most fans on the Chelsea topic in here from other clubs have identified this would clearly suit our squad. The only one who cannot see this, is the manager.
Havertz has played in a lot of positions but clearly suits the 10, behind a striker and has stated he prefers this position.
Therefore to utilise them, with Pulisic and Ziyech either side, it doesn’t take a genius to realise the 4231 formation is key to implement all players in their correct positions.
Lampard is hell bent on having 3 central midfielders though and it completely nullifies our attack. It’s actually concerning when you have clowns like Jermaine Jenus recognising this is what is needed. Most fans on the Chelsea topic in here from other clubs have identified this would clearly suit our squad. The only one who cannot see this, is the manager.
Exactly. Shifting players everywhere to accommodate others when we could just start them all in their preferred positions.
The amount of shifting around to accommodate Tammy Abraham is mental.
I agree.
It's a shame that we have seen so little of what he can do so far, but I'm not worried about him.
No idea why lampard hasn't tried a 3-5-2 with Havertz and Werner up top personally.
I think he will be fine, but this is the problem with hyped up young players, they need time to settle, but when you move for these stupid amounts of money, you become the center of attention.
It is easier to be patient if you paid 20m/30m on these players, but when you pay 70m+ you want some effectiveness quick. Also important to keep in mind, that for any reason a transfer can fail and thing may not work out, so quite a risk these transfers.
It is easier to be patient if you paid 20m/30m on these players, but when you pay 70m+ you want some effectiveness quick. Also important to keep in mind, that for any reason a transfer can fail and thing may not work out, so quite a risk these transfers.
He'll come good. He was excellent for Leverkusen whenever I saw him.
Used to be the done thing that every player from abroad was given at least a year to settle. Now they misplace a pass on their debut and it's GIF'd within minutes and they're labelled a flop. He's had Covid too.
Used to be the done thing that every player from abroad was given at least a year to settle. Now they misplace a pass on their debut and it's GIF'd within minutes and they're labelled a flop. He's had Covid too.
But then what do you do with Pulisic, Ziyech and Hudson Odoi?.
Well that's the issue with having too many good players isn't it? somebody is going to be unhappy somewhere.
It's clear so far though the 4-3-3 doesn't work great.
I believe you need. Aguero, Suarez where quick but strong too.
Still Havertz hasn't been showing his potential yet. If he was a false 9 or a 10 or 10 1/2 doesn't matter if the trainer plays him wrongly.
Those two aren’t false 9.
They are!