Kai Havertz

gajender

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Assuming we sign Sancho and also Pogba leaves ,even then is Havertz the right signing I am not sure how good is he as Cm isn't he best suited to attacking midfield role how prudent would it be to spend big money just for an upgrade over Bruno or as a back up when Bruno has just started his career with United it simply doesn't make sense.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Assuming we sign Sancho and also Pogba leaves ,even then is Havertz the right signing I am not sure how good is he as Cm isn't he best suited to attacking midfield role how prudent would it be to spend big money just for an upgrade over Bruno or as a back up when Bruno has just started his career with United it simply doesn't make sense.
Same question I ask. My guess is

.... Havertz.......Bruno

.......... Mctominay...
 

Rajma

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Same question I ask. My guess is

.... Havertz.......Bruno

.......... Mctominay...
No way this works in the real life. Mct/Fred are no proper DMs and with those two in front you need a real specialist. I simply can't see a well balanced midfield which consists both Bruno and Havertz, same goes for Bruno/Pogba as much as people are excited.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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No way this works in the real life. Mct/Fred are no proper DMs and with those two in front you need a real specialist. I simply can't see a well balanced midfield which consists both Bruno and Havertz, same goes for Bruno/Pogba as much as people are excited.
So why are we targeting him Grealish and VDB?? Cause it's going to be a similar formation
 

gajender

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Same question I ask. My guess is

.... Havertz.......Bruno

.......... Mctominay...

May be that's the plan who knows Mctominay is quite young maybe he could develop into useful Dm, but again I would rather Play Bruno as proper no 10 in 4231 with a new Dm brought in and giving Fred and Mctominay to stake claim for the other spot and see how it goes assuming Pogba leaves.
 

Rozay

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Assuming we sign Sancho and also Pogba leaves ,even then is Havertz the right signing I am not sure how good is he as Cm isn't he best suited to attacking midfield role how prudent would it be to spend big money just for an upgrade over Bruno or as a back up when Bruno has just started his career with United it simply doesn't make sense.
You are correct. Havertz is not as good as Pogba defensively, he lacks intensity in his game - and as it is, Pogba and Bruno has some defensive question marks. If Pogba left, I’m not sure we should just try to replicate this issue.

That said, I would still sign him, as he’s brilliant, but I’d expect him to bench Bruno in time, rather than partner him. Still early days, but I still have my doubts as to whether Bruno is as amazing as everyone makes out personally. He’s had a great start, and he was needed for sure - but I always saw him as potentially an upgrade for the Mata, Lingard, Pereira role rather than the replacement for Pogba. I think Havertz would be a more worthy Pogba replacement, and we’d need to upgrade one of Fred or McTominay - as we had been saying all along. Nobody was looking at our midfield before Bruno came and saying ‘we just need a better creative midfielder than Pogba’. We wanted improvement in what goes next to him. Replacing Pogba with Bruno or Havertz doesn’t necessarily take the overall level of our midfield up much, if at all. Replacing Fred or Scott with Saúl (purely for example), would have. As we’d have one of them behind Pogba and Saúl, and as a trio, it would have equal quality in both offensive and defensive phases. As good as Pogba and Bruno may turn out, any trio will be better offensively than it is defensively, just like a Havertz and Bruno partnership would be.

If Pogba goes, and we wanted to use his fee for a midfielder, I’d rather a different profile of midfielder to Bruno personally. I wouldn’t be mad if we brought in Havertz, as I think he could be better than both Bruno and Pogba potentially, but we’d still be not much better off than we are with Fred, Scott and either Pogba/Bruno/Havertz. And if we were to look for a partner for Bruno in midfield, my guess is that it wouldn’t be Havertz, or his profile, if we had a choice on a free market.
 

Highfather_24

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I think we are targeting Sancho for the RW position.

And then we are targeting Havertz/Grealish/VDB to play as an #8 alongside Bruno, if Pogba leaves. Otherwise Pogba plays that role. If we buy Havertz/Grealish, they will be the box to box creative midfielder replacement for Pogba.
 

IrishMcD

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Had a dream last night that Juve bought Pogba for £20m + De Ligt, and we went and signed Sancho and Havertz. Talking about waking up with morning wood.
 

gajender

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You are correct. Havertz is not as good as Pogba defensively, he lacks intensity in his game - and as it is, Pogba and Bruno has some defensive question marks. If Pogba left, I’m not sure we should just try to replicate this issue.

That said, I would still sign him, as he’s brilliant, but I’d expect him to bench Bruno in time, rather than partner him. Still early days, but I still have my doubts as to whether Bruno is as amazing as everyone makes out personally. He’s had a great start, and he was needed for sure - but I always saw him as potentially an upgrade for the Mata, Lingard, Pereira role rather than the replacement for Pogba. I think Havertz would be a more worthy Pogba replacement, and we’d need to upgrade one of Fred or McTominay - as we had been saying all along. Nobody was looking at our midfield before Bruno came and saying ‘we just need a better creative midfielder than Pogba’. We wanted improvement in what goes next to him. Replacing Pogba with Bruno or Havertz doesn’t necessarily take the overall level of our midfield up much, if at all. Replacing Fred or Scott with Saúl (purely for example), would have. As we’d have one of them behind Pogba and Saúl, and as a trio, it would have equal quality in both offensive and defensive phases. As good as Pogba and Bruno may turn out, any trio will be better offensively than it is defensively, just like a Havertz and Bruno partnership would be.

If Pogba goes, and we wanted to use his fee for a midfielder, I’d rather a different profile of midfielder to Bruno personally. I wouldn’t be mad if we brought in Havertz, as I think he could be better than both Bruno and Pogba potentially, but we’d still be not much better off than we are with Fred, Scott and either Pogba/Bruno/Havertz. And if we were to look for a partner for Bruno in midfield, my guess is that it wouldn’t be Havertz, or his profile, if we had a choice on a free market.
I still believe Pogba's issues in playing double pivot are overblown he never had the opportunity to play with decent no 10 now we have one in Bruno who ideally should be given opportunity to make that position his own if he fails then he should be replaced . Target should be a DM who is ready to start while keeping Pogba .
 

Rozay

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I still believe Pogba's issues in playing double pivot are overblown he never had the opportunity to play with decent no 10 now we have one in Bruno who ideally should be given opportunity to make that position his own if he fails then he should be replaced . Target should be a DM who is ready to start while keeping Pogba .
I agree that they are overblown. I think he is capable of playing in a double pivot, however, ideally I’m not sure I’d necessarily want him to. I’d prefer him in a double 8 in front of a DM.

On the face of it, there is a defensive risk of him and Bruno in a double 8. People cite City’s team, but football isn’t as simple as this. City never looked in trouble defensively at their best. Firstly, they kept the ball most of the time, and secondly - they are a pressing team that didn’t leave a single DM in reality - they had about 4 or 5 of them when they lost the ball. The key would be for Ole to drill the entire team in a way that they protect each other when out of possession and chase the ball down. Same as Barcelona. A midfield of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta isn’t defensively fantastic on paper. However, they pressed so effectively that they were not defending in the orthodox manner of physical duels and tracking of runs. They close the space and trust that you are not technically as good as them, and as a result would struggle to keep it for lore than 4 or 5 passes.
 

Adnan

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I see where you’re coming from but we’ve got other priorities to use that amount of money on if we do plan on spending to that extent (assuming Sancho is the priority target for the right wing). It’s like saying we can’t be in a situation where one injury to Maguire would significantly weaken us. In that scenario a centre back pairing of Lindelof and Bailly is far more worrying to me than Fred or McT stepping into midfield.
I don't think we're in a situation where one injury to Maguire would derail our season. Post Fergie we've had CB pairings that have done really well and we've had one of the best defensive records in the league in some seasons with Smalling and Blind. I don't think we could say that about our midfield/attack.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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I think you're underestimating Chelsea's financial muscle - Chelsea are still sitting on ~€20m from recent sales alone (Ziyech+Werner+Kovacic = €135m; Hazard + Morata = €155m). This is notwithstanding the normal transfer budget that has been stockpiled over the past two windows (likely on the order of ~€150-180m in total), the additional player sales anticipated to go through (e.g. Pasalic to Atalanta for €15m, Bakayoko, Barkley, Moses, Alonso, Emerson, Batshuayi, & other various loan army players potentially leaving), large wages coming off the bill in the form of Willian and Pedro, and the potential to sell Kante for at minimum €80m. If Marina works her magic, there's a world in which Chelsea still have ~€300-350m to spend after the Werner and Ziyech deals.

Certainly we can afford Havertz without breaking the budget; if he wants to leave Germany then we seem the likeliest destination. Also, apparently he and Werner are close and have expressed an interest in playing together at club level, so make of that what you will.
correct. I can understand people thinking Werner, Havertz, Chilwell and Ziyech would be a heavy outlay, but budget wise it is easily attainable for us should we wish. Due to the factors you list. We are sitting on a large swell of cash due to an inability to spend it last 18 months or so; there is also further income to be had from squad trimming. I think, to be honest, Roman really wants to back Lampard, and I'd not even be the slightest bit surprised if we finished the window with a total transfer outlay (gross) of 200m ish. Also been many a journalist on various podcasts claiming that we have come out of this covid financial hit in a very healthy position, the ban actually was a blessing.

Outwards i think Moses, Zappacosta depending on injury, Pasalic (already done), Pedro, Willian, Batshuayi, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Zouma (sadly), Alonso/Emerson could all potentially leave. I dont think Jorginho and/or Barkley going can be ruled out, either
 

TheReligion

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I think you're underestimating Chelsea's financial muscle - Chelsea are still sitting on ~€20m from recent sales alone (Ziyech+Werner+Kovacic = €135m; Hazard + Morata = €155m). This is notwithstanding the normal transfer budget that has been stockpiled over the past two windows (likely on the order of ~€150-180m in total), the additional player sales anticipated to go through (e.g. Pasalic to Atalanta for €15m, Bakayoko, Barkley, Moses, Alonso, Emerson, Batshuayi, & other various loan army players potentially leaving), large wages coming off the bill in the form of Willian and Pedro, and the potential to sell Kante for at minimum €80m. If Marina works her magic, there's a world in which Chelsea still have ~€300-350m to spend after the Werner and Ziyech deals.

Certainly we can afford Havertz without breaking the budget; if he wants to leave Germany then we seem the likeliest destination. Also, apparently he and Werner are close and have expressed an interest in playing together at club level, so make of that what you will.
Judging by that you will only have Zyiech, Werner, Chilwell and Havertz on the pitch as you'll be selling every fecker else.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Judging by that you will only have Zyiech, Werner, Chilwell and Havertz on the pitch as you'll be selling every fecker else.
Hmm? The only consistent first team players I listed there that might be sold / allowed to leave are Willian, Kante, and Alonso. Not sure why the selling of fringe players would be an issue?
 

macheda14

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Hmm? The only consistent first team players I listed there that might be sold / allowed to leave are Willian, Kante, and Alonso. Not sure why the selling of fringe players would be an issue?
The one thing you’re forgetting is that yes, you may be in a good position financially, but who are you going to sell all these players to? Are you going to sell them at an incredibly cut rate?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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The one thing you’re forgetting is that yes, you may be in a good position financially, but who are you going to sell all these players to? Are you going to sell them at an incredibly cut rate?
Oh fully agreed. It's confirmed that Chelsea are looking to offload Batshuayi but have struggled to generate interest. Same goes for Drinkwater, who might be the most unmovable player in world football at the moment.

That said, Chelsea have been up there with the very best clubs in the world when it comes to selling players. Right now, Juve and Inter are keen on Alonso & Emerson - while getting a decent fee from those two is like trying to draw blood from a stone, Inter may have capital given a potential Lautaro sale. West Ham & Newcastle want Barkley, Milan are keen on bringing back Bakayoko, etc. There are deals to be made but even if the transfer fees aren't eye-watering reducing the wage bill would be of huge benefit.
 

Highfather_24

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Saw him play yesterday, and although the teamsheet said he played as #10, he basically played right wing. Not in a traditional sense ofcourse, more like how Ziyech or Oezil play RW.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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The one thing you’re forgetting is that yes, you may be in a good position financially, but who are you going to sell all these players to? Are you going to sell them at an incredibly cut rate?
Yes, they will be sold at cut prices id imagine. Possibly half of what we paid in many cases
Oh fully agreed. It's confirmed that Chelsea are looking to offload Batshuayi but have struggled to generate interest. Same goes for Drinkwater, who might be the most unmovable player in world football at the moment.

That said, Chelsea have been up there with the very best clubs in the world when it comes to selling players. Right now, Juve and Inter are keen on Alonso & Emerson - while getting a decent fee from those two is like trying to draw blood from a stone, Inter may have capital given a potential Lautaro sale. West Ham & Newcastle want Barkley, Milan are keen on bringing back Bakayoko, etc. There are deals to be made but even if the transfer fees aren't eye-watering reducing the wage bill would be of huge benefit.
Helps having one of the best negotiators in the league for selling players too in Marina Granovskaia. She will have to accept compromises this summer, though. Ordinarily mind, she'd get what she wanted
 

passing-wind

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CL for those guys if they pull thilose deals off, squads looking phenomenal.
To be honest the way they were playing in the UCL I'd peg them to be huge favourites this season irrespective of who's joining. The new manager who's replace Kovac seems up to scratch.
 

theklr

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A bidding war between Chelsea and Bayern could be a real basket case. Both very deep pockets atm.
 

-Supreme-

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I don't see Bayern buying him unless they pull out the Sane deal.

They will still win the league comfortably and do well in the CL without him so I don't see the value of spending additional 70m on a player that will not make a difference to their silverware cabinet.

They must be hoping that Havertz stays there for another season so they can get him on a cheap deal with 1 year's left on his contract, like they always do to their feeder clubs in the Bundesliga
 

charlenefan

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I don't see Bayern buying him unless they pull out the Sane deal.

They will still win the league comfortably and do well in the CL without him so I don't see the value of spending additional 70m on a player that will not make a difference to their silverware cabinet.

They must be hoping that Havertz stays there for another season so they can get him on a cheap deal with 1 year's left on his contract, like they always do to their feeder clubs in the Bundesliga
The Sane deal won't be easy, City won't be pushed over and forced into selling him so it is possible they'll have to wait another 12 months to get him
 

Adam-Utd

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Saw him play yesterday, and although the teamsheet said he played as #10, he basically played right wing. Not in a traditional sense ofcourse, more like how Ziyech or Oezil play RW.
And he was utterly non existent.

For 100m we'd want a player that would actually start in our team, and right now I genuinely don't think he would. Is he better than Bruno or Martial? not for me YET.
 

Highfather_24

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And he was utterly non existent.

For 100m we'd want a player that would actually start in our team, and right now I genuinely don't think he would. Is he better than Bruno or Martial? not for me YET.
Yep. As a RW, I would rather have Sancho. And as a #10, I'd rather have Bruno/Pogba. Yes, he is a very gifted player, and he was just returning from an injury yesterday, but I think we have more pressing needs.
 

Adam-Utd

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Yep. As a RW, I would rather have Sancho. And as a #10, I'd rather have Bruno/Pogba. Yes, he is a very gifted player, and he was just returning from an injury yesterday, but I think we have more pressing needs.
I do like him but he’s just not the right player we need for an insane amount of money. He’s not going to want to be 2nd fiddle to Bruno and he isn’t a deeper CM.

we’ve made this error with players in the past where we chose big name over the right one.
 

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And he was utterly non existent.

For 100m we'd want a player that would actually start in our team, and right now I genuinely don't think he would. Is he better than Bruno or Martial? not for me YET.
I'm gonna disagree with you mate. I think he's better than Martial right now and has more potential than Bruno.
 

Highfather_24

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I'm gonna disagree with you mate. I think he's better than Martial right now and has more potential than Bruno.
But competition for Bruno/Martial is hardly a necessity right now in covid market is it? And even more so, when he would cost 80M+.

Our First team as it stands right now is this :

----DM--Pogba
RW--Bruno-Rashford
-----Martial

These 4 are guaranteed starters. So we should add more first team players(Sancho as RW the obvious option), while we have cover in the likes of Ighalo, Greenwood, James, Pereira/Mata, Chong, Gomes etc.
 

Adnan

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But competition for Bruno/Martial is hardly a necessity right now in covid market is it? And even more so, when he would cost 80M+.
That's a decision for the club and the manager of the football team. If they want to buy him then there is plenty of positives I can see in this potential transfer.
 

Highfather_24

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That's a decision for the club and the manager of the football team. If they want to buy him then there is plenty of positives I can see in this potential transfer.
Ofcourse. Just doesnt feel like good business to me. We dont have unlimited funds. People said the same thing about Griezmann at Barca, and we see now why you shouldnt just get big names, and put square pegs in round holes.
 

Adnan

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Ofcourse. Just doesnt feel like good business to me. We dont have unlimited funds. People said the same thing about Griezmann at Barca, and we see now why you shouldnt just get big names, and put square pegs in round holes.
I think the club will prioritise Sancho and rightly so IMO. But if we do sign Havertz (which I think is probably unlikely) then I fully believe Solskjaer has planned accordingly going forward. A plan that may not make sense to many in the short term.
 

davidmichael

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I think Bayern can pull off both deals, Sane has a year on his contract and can probably be got for £50-£60 million at most. They will save fortunes not paying the wages of Coutinho and Perisic and you’d expect them to move Martinez and Boateng on too.

Bayern are such a well run club and I don’t remember them spending money last summer other than on Pavard and Hernández, replacing Coutinho and Perisic with Havertz and Sane is a serious upgrade and you’d look at them as favourites for the Champions League and the strongest team around in Europe.
 

Gwhizz

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I think the best way of fitting him into the team is in the false 9 role with Rashford and hopefully Sancho running off him. He's good in the air which gives us the option to go route 1 at times whilst also being able to drop deeper into midfield when an extra body is needed. Literally using the entire budget on those 2 would make us contenders. Fred, Greenwood, James & Martial gives us great options from the bench and we work with what we have at the back

Rashford--------Sancho
- - - - Havertz------
Pogba---------Fernandes
- - - McTominay---
 

Igor Drefljak

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Havertz is a really weird one.

I think the only way we bring him in, is if Pogba leaves.
On his day, Pogba can and is one of the most all round midfielders, but that day isn't too often, and unless things have changed, he doesn't want to be here.
Havertz would feel like a step down, although younger, but, would probably give more consistent performances which benefits us more.

Theres no way we buy him and keep Pogba unless we're actually going to play him as a striker, which I don't see.
I'd love the signing though