Kai Havertz

Raoul

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Havertz is a really weird one.

I think the only way we bring him in, is if Pogba leaves.
On his day, Pogba can and is one of the most all round midfielders, but that day isn't too often, and unless things have changed, he doesn't want to be here.
Havertz would feel like a step down, although younger, but, would probably give more consistent performances which benefits us more.

Theres no way we buy him and keep Pogba unless we're actually going to play him as a striker, which I don't see.
I'd love the signing though
I can't see any way we don't have to sell Pogba to finance Sancho and Havertz.
 

Devil may care

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It's hard to imagine him going anywhere but Bayern, and for United I can't see where we'd play him even if Pogba goes as he's an AM or RWF when I've seen him play, long term he might be a CM but not at the moment, the only way I could see us using him is if we can't get Sancho and he played RWF for us.
 

Adam-Utd

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I'm gonna disagree with you mate. I think he's better than Martial right now and has more potential than Bruno.
What makes you think he's already better than Martial?

For me the only thing he is better at is the final killer pass. I like him as an attacking midfielder but I do think talk of him for 70m+ is just obsurd right now.
 

Adnan

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What makes you think he's already better than Martial?

For me the only thing he is better at is the final killer pass. I like him as an attacking midfielder but I do think talk of him for 70m+ is just obsurd right now.
As a all round attacker he's better imo. He could play the false #9 better. His movement is better and he provides interchangability with the two flank players but can also drop deeper and contribute to the build up. He's also 6'2 and can be a significant threat aerially which is also a advantage in his favour. I'd even say he's technically better and he's demonstrated that with how graceful he is with the ball high up the pitch and from a little deeper. He's also a talisman for his club team and has been since he was a teen with a very high number of goal contributions already.

I think if we signed him, Martial would become a squad player.
 

Adam-Utd

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As a all round attacker he's better imo. He could play the false #9 better. His movement is better and he provides interchangability with the two flank players but can also drop deeper and contribute to the build up. He's also 6'2 and can be a significant threat aerially which is also a advantage in his favour. I'd even say he's technically better and he's demonstrated that with how graceful he is with the ball high up the pitch and from a little deeper. He's also a talisman for his club team and has been since he was a teen with a very high number of goal contributions already.

I think if we signed him, Martial would become a squad player.
Sounds like a lot of hypotheticals to me tbh. I agree aerially he could be better but the rest I don't.

Being a talisman for Leverkusen isn't exactly anything to be excited about either, Martial would instantly be there best player if we swapped them IMO.

Anyways we will see how he develops but I think he will end up as a striker, and right now we don't need another 20 year old in learning.

He's off to Bayern.
 

BiggusCrickus

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Looks a great player but if we going to keep Pogba and Bruno then i just dont see where he fits in. And i think he will stay in Germany and replace Muller at Bayern .
 

Adnan

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Sounds like a lot of hypotheticals to me tbh. I agree aerially he could be better but the rest I don't.

Being a talisman for Leverkusen isn't exactly anything to be excited about either, Martial would instantly be there best player if we swapped them IMO.

Anyways we will see how he develops but I think he will end up as a striker, and right now we don't need another 20 year old in learning.

He's off to Bayern.
How you watched Havertz in full games for a period of time?

Harvertz at his age has more goal contributions than both Ronaldo and Messi at the same age. At 19 years old he's the talisman for Leverkusen in the German Buli while Martial at the same age in a lesser league didn't come close.

I don't think Havertz will end up as a striker but rather a second striker.
 

cyberman

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How you watched Havertz in full games for a period of time?

Harvertz at his age has more goal contributions than both Ronaldo and Messi at the same age. At 19 years old he's the talisman for Leverkusen in the German Buli while Martial at the same age in a lesser league didn't come close.

I don't think Havertz will end up as a striker but rather a second striker.
Martial came to United and carried us at a similar age?
 

Adam-Utd

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How you watched Havertz in full games for a period of time?

Harvertz at his age has more goal contributions than both Ronaldo and Messi at the same age. At 19 years old he's the talisman for Leverkusen in the German Buli while Martial at the same age in a lesser league didn't come close.

I don't think Havertz will end up as a striker but rather a second striker.
Yes I watch them a lot, like I said I think he's good but he has a long way to go yet. I don't think he starts at United if he joined us and i'd personally rather give the game time to Greenwood who IMO will be better anyway.

I'm sure at Bayern he will look a class act with a great supporting team behind him but i'm just not sure he's what we need for an insane price right now.
 

Adnan

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Yes I watch them a lot, like I said I think he's good but he has a long way to go yet. I don't think he starts at United if he joined us and i'd personally rather give the game time to Greenwood who IMO will be better anyway.

I'm sure at Bayern he will look a class act with a great supporting team behind him but i'm just not sure he's what we need for an insane price right now.
He might have a long way to go as far as winning the Balon D'or etc but he would bench Martial if he turned up at OT. I have no doubt about that. He's quite simply a much more talented player IMO.
 

theklr

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He might have a long way to go as far as winning the Balon D'or etc but he would bench Martial if he turned up at OT. I have no doubt about that. He's quite simply a much more talented player IMO.
I know that it is abit cliche that Bundesliga is a weaker league, but there has been lots of players that have come over here and just didnt make it.

I am not saying he will be one of them, he would probably do it quite well, but that he would bench Martial its very difficult to be sure of in my eyes.
 

cyberman

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Carried us is going too far. He did well in his first season at the club under LVG but has been inconsistent in his time at the club as a whole.
But that is young players as a whole. He may not have kicked on as fast as we wanted but he was our attack for large portions of that season.
 

Adnan

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I know that it is abit cliche that Bundesliga is a weaker league, but there has been lots of players that have come over here and just didnt make it.

I am not saying he will be one of them, he would probably do it quite well, but that he would bench Martial its very difficult to be sure of in my eyes.
I agree with you, we can never be sure of that in totality that's for sure but I've been watching him for a few years now and the more I watch him the more the doubts disappear. He's a very unique talent and I'll explain myself in a little detail on why I believe he would bench Martial below.

He completely destroys Martial on work rate and off the ball movement and that isn't even up for debate IMO. He also influences play to a far greater degree on the ball whether that be high up the pitch or in a deeper midfield role in comparison. Leverkusen have also used Havertz as a target man in some games due to his 6'2 frame and ability to play with his back to goal which gives the current Leverkusen coach Bosz tactical flexibility that a player like Martial couldn't. Below is a excerpt from a scout report written on the player from GGFN and also the link to the full report below.

Attacking third influence

"A developing misconception of Havertz is that he is just a “second-striker” or “shadow striker”, and despite his fantastic qualities as a goal-scorer, limiting him to just that role could not be more far from the truth. As we detailed earlier he is exceptional at manoeuvring through many phases and zones on the pitch outside of the penalty box. But he also influences the opposition third when he is not scoring goals. He made 1.18 key passes and 1.21 passes into the penalty area per 90 minutes, and completed 84% of his passes inside the opposition half"

"Havertz when operating in wide spaces is able to use his fantastic dribbling skills and speed. Achieving 2.80 successful dribbles per 90 minutes is a testament to how dangerous he can be 1v1 against opposition fullbacks. This puts him into great positions to make a pass into the box or top of the box to incoming players and adds another layer to his game inside the attacking third".

https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2020/scouting-report-kai-havertz-bayer-leverkusen/
 
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theklr

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I agree with you, we can never be sure of that in totality that's for sure but I've been watching him for a few years now and the more I watch him the more the doubts disappear. He's a very unique talent and I'll explain myself in a little detail on why I believe he will bench Martial below.

He completely destroys Martial on work rate and off the ball movement and that isn't even up for debate IMO. He also influences play to a far greater degree on the ball whether that be high up the pitch or in a deeper midfield role in comparison. Leverkusen have also used Havertz as a target man in some games due to his 6'2 frame and ability to play with his back to goal which gives the current Leverkusen coach Bosz tactical flexibility that a player like Martial couldn't. Below is a excerpt from a scout report written on the player from GGFN and also the link to the full report below.

Attacking third influence

"A developing misconception of Havertz is that he is just a “second-striker” or “shadow striker”, and despite his fantastic qualities as a goal-scorer, limiting him to just that role could not be more far from the truth. As we detailed earlier he is exceptional at manoeuvring through many phases and zones on the pitch outside of the penalty box. But he also influences the opposition third when he is not scoring goals. He made 1.18 key passes and 1.21 passes into the penalty area per 90 minutes, and completed 84% of his passes inside the opposition half"

"Havertz when operating in wide spaces is able to use his fantastic dribbling skills and speed. Achieving 2.80 successful dribbles per 90 minutes is a testament to how dangerous he can be 1v1 against opposition fullbacks. This puts him into great positions to make a pass into the box or top of the box to incoming players and adds another layer to his game inside the attacking third".

https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2020/scouting-report-kai-havertz-bayer-leverkusen/
Nice :) thank you .
 

PedroMendez

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I agree with you, we can never be sure of that in totality that's for sure but I've been watching him for a few years now and the more I watch him the more the doubts disappear. He's a very unique talent and I'll explain myself in a little detail on why I believe he would bench Martial below.

He completely destroys Martial on work rate and off the ball movement and that isn't even up for debate IMO. He also influences play to a far greater degree on the ball whether that be high up the pitch or in a deeper midfield role in comparison. Leverkusen have also used Havertz as a target man in some games due to his 6'2 frame and ability to play with his back to goal which gives the current Leverkusen coach Bosz tactical flexibility that a player like Martial couldn't. Below is a excerpt from a scout report written on the player from GGFN and also the link to the full report below.

Attacking third influence

"A developing misconception of Havertz is that he is just a “second-striker” or “shadow striker”, and despite his fantastic qualities as a goal-scorer, limiting him to just that role could not be more far from the truth. As we detailed earlier he is exceptional at manoeuvring through many phases and zones on the pitch outside of the penalty box. But he also influences the opposition third when he is not scoring goals. He made 1.18 key passes and 1.21 passes into the penalty area per 90 minutes, and completed 84% of his passes inside the opposition half"

"Havertz when operating in wide spaces is able to use his fantastic dribbling skills and speed. Achieving 2.80 successful dribbles per 90 minutes is a testament to how dangerous he can be 1v1 against opposition fullbacks. This puts him into great positions to make a pass into the box or top of the box to incoming players and adds another layer to his game inside the attacking third".

https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2020/scouting-report-kai-havertz-bayer-leverkusen/
Havertz played ~7 games as central forward. We know next to nothing how well he does there in the long run. He started there only because Volland got injured (end/mid Feb). Up to this point, Volland was the best German (in terms of nationality; not league) scorer in the previous 12 month. Volland is a good player, but nobody would pay crazy money for him.

Whats more important is, that Bosz plays a pretty specific brand of football, that is very different from anything that United is playing. One of the aspects is, that he has almost always attacking full/wing-backs or "normal" wingers like Diaby or Bellarabi that add width. We are talking about a manager, who started with Leon Bailey+Amiri as wing-backs and Diaby+Bellerabi as wingers against Bayern. The equivalent for United (not in terms of quality) would be starting with James and Bruno as wing backs and Rasher+Greenwood in front of them against Liverpool/City. Thats a bit different from Ole's tactics. The point is, that Havertz can happily start as "right-winger" for Leverkusen, because other players will still stretch the field. Good luck asking Wan Bissaka to be a proper attacking threat.

Any club that buys him for a wide position is insane and any club that buys him as CF is taking a huge gamble.

The link you posted is actually really good. The first 80% of the post explain very well what kind of player he is.
 

Adnan

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Havertz played ~7 games as central forward. We know next to nothing how well he does there in the long run. He started there only because Volland got injured (end/mid Feb). Up to this point, Volland was the best German (in terms of nationality; not league) scorer in the previous 12 month. Volland is a good player, but nobody would pay crazy money for him.

Whats more important is, that Bosz plays a pretty specific brand of football, that is very different from anything that United is playing. One of the aspects is, that he has almost always attacking full/wing-backs or "normal" wingers like Diaby or Bellarabi that add width. We are talking about a manager, who started with Leon Bailey+Amiri as wing-backs and Diaby+Bellerabi as wingers against Bayern. The equivalent for United (not in terms of quality) would be starting with James and Bruno as wing backs and Rasher+Greenwood in front of them against Liverpool/City. Thats a bit different from Ole's tactics. The point is, that Havertz can happily start as "right-winger" for Leverkusen, because other players will still stretch the field. Good luck asking Wan Bissaka to be a proper attacking threat.

Any club that buys him for a wide position is insane and any club that buys him as CF is taking a huge gamble.

The link you posted is actually really good. The first 80% of the post explain very well what kind of player he is.
I don't think for one minute that Ole's tactics will remain the same. And I don't think we'd buy him to play as the right sided attacker or solely to play him as a CF. The reason I brought up his versatility was due to our current midfield options and how we may try and integrate him into our first team with our current options and Pogba's future still up in the air.

Ole has spoken about wanting to play a high-line and also spoke about wanting more from his fullbacks in a attacking sense. So either the likes of Wan Bissaka improve to the required standard in a attacking sense or Ole will use the attack minded Ethan Laird if he can stay injury free. Fullbacks are the wingers in the modern game and it's from those positions that width is created. Ole will create a similar team dynamic to what Bosz has created at Leverkusen, he just needs the final pieces of the puzzle to fit in attack, the base of midfield and at fullback.
 

Rob Bowman

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More I look at this the more I like it.

Sure would love Sancho and that is the dream, but if that does not work this guy is the same level and more affordable. Of course he is not English but he would work like a charm on the right side with his left foot.
 

beingshe7don

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Havertz seem like one of those transfers which will linger and at present it may it seem it's between Chelsea and United but can also see Real or City come in and snatch him at the last moment. Pep or Zidane are attractive options as managers to play under.

If we can pull of Sancho and Havertz... I would't mind losing Pogba and adding a destroyer in Partey or Zakaria the following summer.
 

croadyman

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Havertz seem like one of those transfers which will linger and at present it may it seem it's between Chelsea and United but can also see Real or City come in and snatch him at the last moment. Pep or Zidane are attractive options as managers to play under.

If we can pull of Sancho and Havertz... I would't mind losing Pogba and adding a destroyer in Partey or Zakaria the following summer.
Honestly don't see us in the running for Havertz this summer but if he stayed at Leverkusen next summer is different story.
 

Adam-Utd

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Just like a post on twitter from a fan saying "Announce Havertz" to the Chelsea page....
 

WeePat

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Just like a post on twitter from a fan saying "Announce Havertz" to the Chelsea page....
Teenagers have likely been spamming his mentions with 'welcome to Chelsea', because he's unliked the post now :lol:
 

Adam-Utd

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Teenagers have likely been spamming his mentions with 'welcome to Chelsea', because he's unliked the post now :lol:
:lol: i'm sure he's not stupid, he either did it by accident or he's done it intentionally to try and create a bit of noise.

If your boys can seal Havertz on top of Ziyech and Werner that's one hell of a window.
 

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:lol: i'm sure he's not stupid, he either did it by accident or he's done it intentionally to try and create a bit of noise.

If your boys can seal Havertz on top of Ziyech and Werner that's one hell of a window.
Apparently he liked a 433 instagram post announcing Werner to Chelsea this morning. It appears intentional to me. Chelsea fans have probably been spamming his mentions for weeks, so he could be having fun with it.

We still need to address the defence to be taken seriously as an outside title contender, but it has been an impressive window so far.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Not quite the correct quote, but maybe lost in translation for Romano.

The part "we're not in talks to sign him" was never said, it was "He is a top player, but i wont comment on players from other clubs. No bids have gone in"
 

Adnan

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Not quite the correct quote, but maybe lost in translation for Romano.

The part "we're not in talks to sign him" was never said, it was "He is a top player, but i wont comment on players from other clubs. No bids have gone in"
What he's saying is that it's not just Chelsea that are interested but a number of clubs, and no club in particular is advanced in talks for the player.
 

WeePat

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Not quite the correct quote, but maybe lost in translation for Romano.

The part "we're not in talks to sign him" was never said, it was "He is a top player, but i wont comment on players from other clubs. No bids have gone in"
Yeah, not sure where Romano got the "we're not in talks to sign him" bit from. Don't managers field questions from print media once the televised portion is over? Or is this only for post-match conferences? Those quotes always appear much later in the day.

Anyway, this what Lampard actually said;

 

ZolaWasMagic

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Much as he'd be a top signing, i really have a hunch a deal will be struck for him to join Bayern next summer. they'll do Sane and a right back this window, and then agree everything with Havertz and Bayer, but the deal is official say July 1 2021.
 

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He's the ideal replacement for Muller at Bayern. As good as he is, I don't see where he fits at United. If Bayern get Sane and Havertz in the next 2 summer windows they will be an even tougher proposition in the Champions League.