Kalidou Koulibaly - part deux (or trois?)

Pav1878

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
683
Perhaps the RB Leipzig centre backs are younger, but Koulibaly is still a top defender, and I would be up for this for the right price to partner Maguire (because he isn't going anywhere).

Of course I am biased because I think Maguire is simply not good enough.

Not sure how people can say he has done well, I would say he has been average at best.
 

Pav1878

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
683
Some valid points in this thread, especially about buying PL proven talent and the examples given.

But we should ask ourselves how we would feel if Liverpool do get Koulibaly and partner him with VVD and they storm the league again?

If Klopp is looking at him, then I'm pretty sure he still has a lot to offer any aspirational PL team.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4,351
Location
San Diego, CA
Some valid points in this thread, especially about buying PL proven talent and the examples given.

But we should ask ourselves how we would feel if Liverpool do get Koulibaly and partner him with VVD and they storm the league again?

If Klopp is looking at him, then I'm pretty sure he still has a lot to offer any aspirational PL team.
Any team that can afford good players are looking at them. If Klopp wants to buy Koulibaly, good for them. They deserve their position and that's one of strengthening from a position of strength. All transfers have risk and budget allocation, so if this is what Liverpool need/want, then fine.

United don't need to prioritize another CB at the expense of not getting Sancho or at least another forward who can break through to the starting XI, preferably on the right side, sooner rather than later. To that, a DLP or DM specialist will be needed to replace Matic within a year or two at most, to complement Fred and McTominay and round out a very promising central midfield department.
 

davidmichael

Full Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,659
Personally i'd have kept Smalling in the first place, and I actually like Bailly when he's fit. I'm not a fan of Lindelof at all as you can probably tell.

While yes they both play the LCB role Koulibaly is right footed so i'm sure they could make it work.

Upemecano has great potential but if you saw the Leipzig game last night he has a lot of work to do still. Caused their 1st goal conceded, and made a miskick which nearly gave away a penalty also.

Saying that though his passing and dribbling are very good, he's great in the air and extremely quick/strong. He'd be good in England but would make some mistakes.
I would prefer Bailly or Tuanzebe as Maguire’s partner as they are both very quick so would help Maguire’s one flaw but unfortunately Bailly is injury prone and Tuanzebe still needs a bit more til he’s ready which is why Lindelof is Maguire’s partner the majority of the time.

I’d also rather we kept Smalling as well as he is also quick but also very good in the air as well as the basics of defending but it seems Ole doesn’t fancy him. In an ideal world we’d get rid of Jones and Rojo and if we sell another I’m guessing Smalling as he has suitors and we could get £15-£20 milluon

Over the past few seasons, there has been a trend, buy the best PL talent and you will do well.

Chelsea won the title after signing Kante
City went for Walker, Mahrez, Stones, Sterling
Liverpool with Robertson, VVD, Ox, Mane.

Ofcourse you add a few international signings with it as well due to the PL players being over priced.

Players that know the league is crucial. It isn't a surprise that AWB, Maguire have done well.
This is something Sir Alex did and always worked well for him as it meant no settling in period for the player we’d signed. Obvious ones are Cantona, Rio, Rooney, RVP, Yorke and Keane but there’s also Pallister, Irwin, Parker, Ince, Cole, Sheringham and Carrick to name a few more.

It served as dual person as we’d weaken domestic rivals as well as strengthening ourselves and although it’s not as easy to do it these days due to TV money for PL teams it’s still a tried and tested method that works, look at Maguire and Wan-Bissaka as recent examples.
 

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
2,626
Some valid points in this thread, especially about buying PL proven talent and the examples given.

But we should ask ourselves how we would feel if Liverpool do get Koulibaly and partner him with VVD and they storm the league again?

If Klopp is looking at him, then I'm pretty sure he still has a lot to offer any aspirational PL team.
We’ve made that mistake before with Sanchez, we thought just because Pep wanted him he would be great, and we all know how that turned out.
 

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
2,626
As many have said I would prefer other younger cheaper options, Upamecano and Konate are the obvious ones but there are also others like Gimenez, and out of favor Lucas Hernandez
 

Pav1878

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
683
We’ve made that mistake before with Sanchez, we thought just because Pep wanted him he would be great, and we all know how that turned out.
We wanted Sanchez because he had been a top player in the PL and seemed like a no brainer as upgrade to mkhitaryan. Obviously it didn't work out.

I'm not saying we go for every player Klopp or pep wants. People are questioning how good Koulibaly is, so my point is he's a good player, and better than Maguire imo.

(Btw we also went for Fred who was wanted by pep, and although he had a slow start, is now playing really well.)

There is no special formula for finding the right fit of player, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

I feel if Koulibaly is available for a reasonable fee, then there aren't many better cb's out there. And we should still be able to bring in the other reinforcements we need too.

Sancho would be great, but I'm not convinced he is attainable this season so we should target who is available at the right price.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,354
This is something Sir Alex did and always worked well for him as it meant no settling in period for the player we’d signed. Obvious ones are Cantona, Rio, Rooney, RVP, Yorke and Keane but there’s also Pallister, Irwin, Parker, Ince, Cole, Sheringham and Carrick to name a few more.

It served as dual person as we’d weaken domestic rivals as well as strengthening ourselves and although it’s not as easy to do it these days due to TV money for PL teams it’s still a tried and tested method that works, look at Maguire and Wan-Bissaka as recent examples.
Fergie was brilliant at it and one of the important reasons we won titles. Since then we have had managers buy from abroad and they haven't really worked out. We have seen a shift back to that under Ole. The signing of Maguire and AWB as you say, we could easily have signed another RB and CB for less money from Europe but they wouldnt have adapted as well.

Even going forward, the targets include Maddison, Grealish etc...
 

Pav1878

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
683
Fergie was brilliant at it and one of the important reasons we won titles. Since then we have had managers buy from abroad and they haven't really worked out. We have seen a shift back to that under Ole. The signing of Maguire and AWB as you say, we could easily have signed another RB and CB for less money from Europe but they wouldnt have adapted as well.

Even going forward, the targets include Maddison, Grealish etc...
Agree on the whole but I don't subscribe to the thought that players from abroad won't adapt quickly, as there's too many examples of top players who did.

Stam, Vidic and Evra are all legends and albeit for a sticky few months, turned out to be greats.

Looking at other clubs, aguero, Silva and kompany were all from abroad and all did very well from the start.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,354
Agree on the whole but I don't subscribe to the thought that players from abroad won't adapt quickly, as there's too many examples of top players who did.

Stam, Vidic and Evra are all legends and albeit for a sticky few months, turned out to be greats.

Looking at other clubs, aguero, Silva and kompany were all from abroad and all did very well from the start.
I understand what you are saying. There is no one fits all profile. Vidic, Evra took 6 months to adapt to the league.

Yes, once they adapt they can become true greats and very good signings.

What I was getting at was given the state of our club, we couldn't afford players to take time to settle. When you have a group of 8/9 regulars you can afford to sign 1/2 who take a while to settle.

Look at Fabinho took 6 months and then got in the team, or look at Keita who is still struggling.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
786
I understand what you are saying. There is no one fits all profile. Vidic, Evra took 6 months to adapt to the league.

Yes, once they adapt they can become true greats and very good signings.

What I was getting at was given the state of our club, we couldn't afford players to take time to settle. When you have a group of 8/9 regulars you can afford to sign 1/2 who take a while to settle.

Look at Fabinho took 6 months and then got in the team, or look at Keita who is still struggling.
And you will find enough examples of players transferred within the league who struggled to settle as well , being from the same league is no guarantee of early adaptation players struggling have varied reasons for their trouble.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,354
And you will find enough examples of players transferred within the league who struggled to settle as well , being from the same league is no guarantee of early adaptation players struggling have varied reasons for their trouble.
Have I said anywhere that it is a guaranteed solution? Why don't you give me examples, I have already said Sanchez so other than that.

Give me examples of the best PL talent being moved around and failing to adapt in the last 5 years.
 

davidmichael

Full Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,659
Fergie was brilliant at it and one of the important reasons we won titles. Since then we have had managers buy from abroad and they haven't really worked out. We have seen a shift back to that under Ole. The signing of Maguire and AWB as you say, we could easily have signed another RB and CB for less money from Europe but they wouldnt have adapted as well.

Even going forward, the targets include Maddison, Grealish etc...
As good as both of those have been I’d rather we only went after them IF Pogba leaves as I think both of those players would need to play as a 10 in our set up and neither are as good as Fernandes and neither will want to be back up either.

That said though I fully agree about that we could easily have signed a cheaper right back and centre back but it wasn’t just ability that Ole wanted, he wanted a certain profile that fit the club and persevered until they were signed, this appears what we’re doing with Sancho as well.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,354
As good as both of those have been I’d rather we only went after them IF Pogba leaves as I think both of those players would need to play as a 10 in our set up and neither are as good as Fernandes and neither will want to be back up either.

That said though I fully agree about that we could easily have signed a cheaper right back and centre back but it wasn’t just ability that Ole wanted, he wanted a certain profile that fit the club and persevered until they were signed, this appears what we’re doing with Sancho as well.
I agree, the players were heavily linked with us when it looked like Pogba was going to leave. If Pogba stays, I do not think we need them, but it shows the type of player we would look for if Pogba left.

Exactly, I know there has been alot of talk with respects to the fee we paid but seriously wouldn't you pay the extra £10/20m for a player you know will be here a long time and will adapt quickly.

Is there better defenders than Maguire we could have signed? Maybe, but was there a better fit? No.

All the calls for De Ligt.. look how long he has taken to settle in Juve.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
3,837
Some valid points in this thread, especially about buying PL proven talent and the examples given.

But we should ask ourselves how we would feel if Liverpool do get Koulibaly and partner him with VVD and they storm the league again?

If Klopp is looking at him, then I'm pretty sure he still has a lot to offer any aspirational PL team.
PL proven or no, whether we should worry about what Liverpool got or no, in Koulibaly case isn't really matter though.

Liverpool is in a stage of winning trophies, while compare to us, we are still in stage of rebuilding the team. Koulibaly's signing is more suitable signing for Klopp since it's more of a short term signing, he's going to turn 29 this month. I don't think we should worry about them signing a 29 years old centre back. Even if they don't sign him, they are still in title contender. If you are talking about De Ligt then we should worry.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
5,595
Location
Ireland
One of the up and coming CBs is Monaco's Badiashile He is left footed and has the ability to become one of the best..
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,892
One of the up and coming CBs is Monaco's Badiashile He is left footed and has the ability to become one of the best..
Think there is a real possibility of bringing a young CB in this summer provided Rojo & Smalling leaves
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,137
Think there is a real possibility of bringing a young CB in this summer provided Rojo & Smalling leaves
And Phil Jones. Axel has missed a lot of games due to injury and should go on loan again. Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, New young cb and Mengi as 5th choice.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
1,913
Reportedly on his way to Citeh for 80m euro's on a 5 year deal according to reports this morning...

If true,funny how he's too old for the caf yet apparently not too old for Guardiola :lol:
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,137
Reportedly on his way to Citeh for 80m euro's on a 5 year deal ccording to reports this morning...

If true,funny how he's too old for the caf yet apparently not too old for Guardiola :lol:
City a filling a gaping hole in their team and our resources are also pointed at filling a gaping hole in our team. Also it's easier to take a gamble like that in a functional team rather that in a team that's still building. He could be 32 by the time we start seriously challenging who knows?
 

Skeezix

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
145
I want either City of Pool to get him. He'll decline within the next 2-3 years

Him still being linked to us gives me the vibe of Ezequiel Garay. Linked every summer!
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
8,759
Location
left wing
Reportedly on his way to Citeh for 80m euro's on a 5 year deal according to reports this morning...

If true,funny how he's too old for the caf yet apparently not too old for Guardiola :lol:
I don't think we have 80m euros to spend on a CB this summer. He's not too old; he's too expensive.
 

Adnan

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
18,244
Location
United Kingdom, England
One of the up and coming CBs is Monaco's Badiashile He is left footed and has the ability to become one of the best..
We've failed to sign him twice before and currently we have a project in Teden Mengi that I think the club may prioritize. I think we should go hell for leather after Ibrahima Konate who is alittle bit older than Badiashile at 21 years old but is significantly better as of now. I'd even take Konate over Koulibaly. Upamecano is also a interesting option due to him being available for a bargain price potentially.
 

TheNewEra

Knows Kroos' mentality
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
3,654
Given his age we won't get much mileage out of him.

I'd rather buy a player to slot between Maguire and AWB that can be moulded to form a partnership between those two.

If United are in the market, buy a top class CB and top class CDM that can be moulded to be part of a great defence (25 years old maximum).

City will buy Kalidou Koulibaly because they need an immediate fix to their squad given how bad their defence is this year, and they already have the midfield and forwards in their squad, United need to build a squad for the next 5-6 years.
 

Antisocial

Has a Sony home cinema
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
13,985
Reportedly on his way to Citeh for 80m euro's on a 5 year deal according to reports this morning...

If true,funny how he's too old for the caf yet apparently not too old for Guardiola :lol:
TBF Pep is a short-term manager with unlimited money to spend, and he's unlikely to there beyond next season anyway if Klopp embarrasses him as hard again, so it makes sense for him to go for the instant impact that Koulibaly might bring.

United have to plan longer-term given where we are, and use our budget a lot more carefully than we have during the LVG and Mourinho windows. He's not the right move for us in that respect, despite being a good player right now.
 

beingshe7don

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
2,392
As long as he doesn't end up at Liverpool, I'm fine with that. The though of Van Dijk and Koulibaly would scare the shit of anyone. Koulibaly is good but the amount being thrown around for him is just not justified. City need him more since they lost their title mainly because of the whole CB situation. They lost Kompany last summer and did not replace him and also lost Laporte to injuries for the major part of the season. If Pep stays, I see him going all out for Koulibaly.

I would love for us to get either of Upamecano or Konate... someone with more pace to compliment Maguire and also someone whose not injury prone. Don't want the whole Bailly situation happening again. We've got to sell Jones, Rojo and Bailly and clear some more of the deadwood.
 

Adnan

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
18,244
Location
United Kingdom, England
As long as he doesn't end up at Liverpool, I'm fine with that. The though of Van Dijk and Koulibaly would scare the shit of anyone. Koulibaly is good but the amount being thrown around for him is just not justified. City need him more since they lost their title mainly because of the whole CB situation. They lost Kompany last summer and did not replace him and also lost Laporte to injuries for the major part of the season. If Pep stays, I see him going all out for Koulibaly.

I would love for us to get either of Upamecano or Konate... someone with more pace to compliment Maguire and also someone whose not injury prone. Don't want the whole Bailly situation happening again. We've got to sell Jones, Rojo and Bailly and clear some more of the deadwood.
There was talk last season that we wanted a commanding CB in the mould of Van Dyke and Koulibaly was the #1 target. We eventually settled on Maguire who if truth be told isn't anywhere close to the all round ability of Van Dyke.

I think the club should look for a CB in the mould of Van Dyke. Someone who is a monster aerially, physically dominant, good on the ball. A player with those attributes will allow us to play in a more proactive way both in a high-line and in a deep block which would open up many possibilities for the likes of McKenna and would make the press more effective. I believe that player is at RB Leipzig and we should push the boat out to sign him.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4,351
Location
San Diego, CA
There was talk last season that we wanted a commanding CB in the mould of Van Dyke and Koulibaly was the #1 target. We eventually settled on Maguire who if truth be told isn't anywhere close to the all round ability of Van Dyke.

I think the club should look for a CB in the mould of Van Dyke. Someone who is a monster aerially, physically dominant, good on the ball. A player with those attributes will allow us to play in a more proactive way both in a high-line and in a deep block which would open up many possibilities for the likes of McKenna and would make the press more effective. I believe that player is at RB Leipzig and we should push the boat out to sign him.
I admire your stance and belief of players with the requisite skill set to join United, but not every player than joins United or any team for that matter, will be without flaws. Maguire is club captain and his signing had a lot more to do than just his football qualities such as his mentality, steadiness, accountability, and leadership that's been sorely lacking for years now. He became club captain in a matter of months. He's also approaching a club record that was last done by Gary Pallister (I hope I haven't just jinxed him!). If you were to believe the talk, Maguire was targeted by Mourinho and Ole camps before being tied down under Ole.
 

Maluco

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
1,235
Pep won’t care about his age, and City won’t care about his sell on value. He wants results now.

I don’t know why Koulibaly has waited this long to leave Napoli. It’s a real pity. He could have enjoyed the appraisal the likes of which van Dijk gets a Liverpool and could have made the same impact somewhere else.

He has waited too long now to really become a legend elsewhere, but will give Pep the couple of years of service that he needs.
 

Adnan

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
18,244
Location
United Kingdom, England
I admire your stance and belief of players with the requisite skill set to join United, but not every player than joins United or any team for that matter, will be without flaws. Maguire is club captain and his signing had a lot more to do than just his football qualities such as his mentality, steadiness, accountability, and leadership that's been sorely lacking for years now. He became club captain in a matter of months. He's also approaching a club record that was last done by Gary Pallister (I hope I haven't just jinxed him!). If you were to believe the talk, Maguire was targeted by Mourinho and Ole camps before being tied down under Ole.
My belief is that now we have Maguire we should partner him with someone that compliments him. He's very strong in the air and has ability on the ball which is a very good thing going forward as far as planning goes. I think him alongside Lindelof is also more than fine for our remaining games which look very winnable in the league. But I personally want to see him paired up with a physically, athletically dominant CB in the long-run. Someone who is good aerially and has ability on the ball. There's a few candidates and a particular stand out candidate who ticks all the boxes at a selling club.