Kane goes Awol

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

And that’s the correct approach to take, I just wish he was consistent with it, because he’s been quick to throw our own players under the bus previously without much consideration for extenuating circumstances, that’s the point I’m making.

I think his emotions run high because he’s so invested in our club. He never really says anything too controversial. He accepts when he’s wrong. He doesn’t act like he knows it all. But he is passionate.

Of all the pundits in the game he’s among the most consistent. He’s deferential to others who have achieved more, but also challenging when it’s required.

This is a comment on the Royal ‘We’ rather than you and I, but we need to be a little smarter. To think about what’s actually need said at times. Too often we focus on phrasing rather than content. Neville is a pretty solid guy, we should give him the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

 

[Paxi]

Kane’s an absolute mug for signing that deal with no release clause. £100 million isn’t worth the hassle for Spurs and £150-160 is too much for him IMO.

 

[TheGame]

Gerrard has won one champions league and one uefa Cup. Campbell hasn't won any European trophy.

They've won a roughly equivalent amount of domestic Cups.

League titles are always ranked the highest. Gerrard would have given an arm and a leg for one.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

i think that’s the point people are alluding to..Because pundits and the media portray Kane as a “good guy” they will always find mitigating reasons for his actions, despite him having a history of being rather petulant.

Whereas if it was someone that they portray as a “bad guy” we all know the most obvious candidate, they wouldn’t even bother with any mitigating reasons they’d just criticise him and on a much more personal level.. As we’ve already seen for the obvious candidate for much less and he’s never actually been unprofessional or petulant,

Kind of with you, and others.

The treatment of many players that just coincidentally have a different Pantone value is abhorrent.

What’s also true is that Kane has been close to perfect for 5-7 years now. A couple of weird blemishes but he’s a weird dude. I can see why Neville wonders and speculates

I just think that Neville is consistent. He backed Jose over players until it was clear that players needed supporting over Jose. He evolves his viewpoint to match the evidence. He’s not Souness. He’s not Simon Jordan or Piers Morgan. I think he’s a well intentioned fan.

I sound like his mother at this point, but we too often let headlines shape narrative. He criticised Kane and sought to understand. I think he extends the same approach to most players. Not all. I’m sure there are examples of that not being true. But he does seem to be Football-First at every turn.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Kane is 29 next August 160 million is not a fair price as you say

He is 28. Not sure why you are saying 29 and that too next August. And people are not on retirement benefits at 29.
He is in his prime. Just won the golden boot last season. Has been consistently scoring and assisting in last many seasons. Has 3 years of contract left. He is an English player and by default all English players are priced way above the normal. He is the most hyped star of the league. Defenders go for 60-80M nowadays.

And on top of it, being bought by a PL rival. A team that is known for spending 100s of millions of frickin defenders.

If he were our player, there is absolutely no way I would accept anything other than record breaking PL money.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I listened to Neville say Kane should have come back and that there was no excuse for him not to for the first few seconds and then make excuses the very next sentence. What’s the need for him to create this narrative that Kane’s a “nice guy” and “professional guy”?

He just criticized an action and immediately went on to justify the same action, based on his personal experience with the said player.

No. He didn’t offer an excuse. He didn’t justify it.

You need to take things at their actual value. He doesn’t need to attack him for 2 minutes just because he spends 2 minutes wondering why.

He unequivocally said there is no excuse. That’s an absolute. So the ‘why’ is what we focus on for a longer time. It happens in life all the time. ‘Sorry’ takes a second. Unpacking the why, takes far longer.

 

[OL29]

I think his emotions run high because he’s so invested in our club. He never really says anything too controversial. He accepts when he’s wrong. He doesn’t act like he knows it all. But he is passionate.

Of all the pundits in the game he’s among the most consistent. He’s deferential to others who have achieved more, but also challenging when it’s required.

This is a comment on the Royal ‘We’ rather than you and I, but we need to be a little smarter. To think about what’s actually need said at times. Too often we focus on phrasing rather than content. Neville is a pretty solid guy, we should give him the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

Sorry but I disagree. I think he’s shown himself to be anything but consistent. He was happy to hold an exclusive interview with Kane, on his own YouTube channel, in which Kane announced his intention to leave in the run in, with Spurs still looking to secure European football, and now he’s happy to turn a blind eye to him essentially going on strike, because it’s apparently out of character.

That’s not at all consistent with a man who’s been vocal in his criticism of a guy for having the temerity to take a penalty or dye his hair blue.

He’s always shown a reluctance to criticise British players, particularly those that he has a relationship with, and that’s why his opinion holds little value to many these days.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Now with City most likely buying Grealish, he can only hope that they still have the money to buy him after all his antics

i believe the window of opportunity may close if Grealish goes to city for 100m. Kane isnt going anywhere this summer, he will have to respect the contract he signed.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Sorry but I disagree. I think he’s shown himself to be anything but consistent. He was happy to hold an exclusive interview with Kane, on his own YouTube channel, in which Kane announced his intention to leave in the run in, with Spurs still looking to secure European football, and now he’s happy to turn a blind eye to him essentially going on strike, because it’s apparently out of character.

That’s not at all consistent with a man who’s been vocal in his criticism of a guy for having the temerity to take a penalty or dye his hair blue.

He’s always shown a reluctance to criticise British players, particularly those that he has a relationship with, and that’s why his opinion holds little value to many these days.

There’s probably a little ground to concede here for me, by way of the bolded.

I think his point of consistency is;

- Supporting the player when the player is right
- Supporting the club when the club is right.
- Criticising the player when the player is wrong.
- Criticising the club when the club is wrong.

I don’t think he flip flops. He’d criticise Rashford for dying his hair blue on the eve of a Derby and he’d praise Pogba for starting a Food Drive.

I think we’re probably squabbling over where we draw our own lines on professionalism and consistency. You’re every bit as right as me if it’s opinion of course.

There is a large part of me that’s suspicious of these cookie cutter click bait headlines that misrepresent Neville though. He’s had numerous politically challenging stances of late. Kids meals. ESL. Racism. Tories. Revolution. To see a very unified misrepresented packaging of his criticism of Kane feels a bit off. You and I having this back and forth feels like yet another evidencing example of the co stand culture war. Not a nefarious Political party led debate. But certainly a Murdoch group carpet bombing of truth and sensibility.

He’s not supported Kane in any way, shape or form. Perhaps you’re right and he’s shown more willingness to understand the ‘Why’ as it’s the England Captain. But his line in the sand is “I will never support a player letting his club down like this”.

Good chat anyways. No right answers. Lots of waffle from me.

 

[OL29]

There’s probably a little ground to concede here for me, by way of the bolded.

I think his point of consistency is;

- Supporting the player when the player is right
- Supporting the club when the club is right.
- Criticising the player when the player is wrong.
- Criticising the club when the club is wrong.

I don’t think he flip flops. He’d criticise Rashford for dying his hair blue on the eve of a Derby and he’d praise Pogba for starting a Food Drive.

I think we’re probably squabbling over where we draw our own lines on professionalism and consistency. You’re every bit as right as me if it’s opinion of course.

There is a large part of me that’s suspicious of these cookie cutter click bait headlines that misrepresent Neville though. He’s had numerous politically challenging stances of late. Kids meals. ESL. Racism. Tories. Revolution. To see a very unified misrepresented packaging of his criticism of Kane feels a bit off. You and I having this back and forth feels like yet another evidencing example of the co stand culture war. Not a nefarious Political party led debate. But certainly a Murdoch group carpet bombing of truth and sensibility.

He’s not supported Kane in any way, shape or form. Perhaps you’re right and he’s shown more willingness to understand the ‘Why’ as it’s the England Captain. But his line in the sand is “I will never support a player letting his club down like this”.

Good chat anyways. No right answers. Lots of waffle from me.

This is where I find him to be a bit of a contradiction, because he’s clearly not prejudiced, and he tends to talk sense outside of football. Even his view in Kane is fairly reasonable as a stand alone point of view, it just doesn’t seem to marry with his thoughts on some of our own players. To his credit, he does wear his head on his sleeve, and when you present yourself in that manner, you’re bound to polarise.
Like you say, there’s no right answers, I can certainly understand your view though.

 

[Paxi]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[duffer]

Tweet

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Whoever runs Son's Instagram is in trouble.

 

[Paxi]

Whoever runs Son's Instagram is in trouble.

His brother Charlie will sort them right out.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Because it fits the narrative - he's ancient and injury prone - neither of which are actually true.

He'd definitely got dodgy ankles. He has 1 every year which he's out for weeks.

 

[balaks]

He'd definitely got dodgy ankles. He has 1 every year which he's out for weeks.

He had two bad ankle ligament injuries which were caused by impact - he played almost every single game of last season. His injuries are overblown.

 

[africanspur]

League titles are always ranked the highest. Gerrard would have given an arm and a leg for one.

That's subjective. I think a lot of players would be just as happy, if not more so, with one CL in their medal cabinet, than 1 league title.

Regardless, that wasn't the discussion. The slightly strange dichotomy was you can be a villain who wins lots of trophies (like Campbell) or a hero who wins nothing (like Gerrard).

The number of trophies for both, in terms of total and 'big' trophies, is almost identical.

We're not talking about Giggs vs le Tissier here.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He had two bad ankle ligament injuries which were caused by impact - he played almost every single game of last season. His injuries are overblown.

He did have an ankle injury last year didn't he? he just came back a lot quicker than expected. Either way usually with those type of injuries they're weak forever.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It doesnt matter what you or me think is a 'fair price' - it only matters what Levy thinks is a fair price.

Levy knows that it's not a 'fair ' price. He's either pricing him out of a move or demanding a fee way in excess of his worth.

It's a win-win for Mr Byrite

 

[Pep's Suit]

If Son wants to act like he wasn't a part of those failures... Usually when it matters he dissapears or starts crying.

 

[Teja]

I'm actually happy that for once we're not the ones dealing with fecking Levy.

 

[africanspur]

Levy knows that it's not a 'fair ' price. He's either pricing him out of a move or demanding a fee way in excess of his worth.

It's a win-win for Mr Byrite

You've just dropped 41 million on a centre back with 1 year left. Arsenal have dropped 50 million... On White. Chelsea have bid 100 million for Lukaku and City 100 million for Graelish.

Considering these, what would you consider a fair price?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I'm failing to see where there were 26 major trophies but then again I'm not a Spurs supporter.

I know there was the double, a ECWC, a UEFA cup,2 League cups,2 further FA cups

 

[Stacks]

I’m tempted to ask you the same thing

“You can never advocate any player not turning up for training, however, I’ve worked with Harry Kane, I can’t think of a more professional player that I’ve ever seen, he does everything right, so he must be seriously annoyed, something has happened badly that’s made him do that.”

These are Neville’s own words, it’s light criticism at best, with the qualifier that for him to act out of line like this, he must have been wronged in some way.
If you think Neville would use the same rationality for certain other players then there’s no helping you.

Yep. He signed a 200k 6 year contract and now wants to leave so f my teammates, the club and the fans and especially my contract.

Ffs. He’s trusting the listener to have a level of intelligence that doesn’t put;

- I can never advocate a player not turning up for training
- Something has happened that’s made him do that.

… as two equally balanced statements. they’re not even vaguely equal.

Of course he wants to know what has triggered this. As do I. As do most here. That doesn’t trump the absoluteness of “I can never”.

It’s a disease of the modern age to pick out a line and attach your own narrative. You don’t have to read between lines here. He hasn’t defended him at all. He wants to know the motivation. That’s completely normal.

what excuse can there be to not show up to work on 200k pw whilst tied to a contract? There should be no trigger as there wasn;t for Pogba. You simply show up for work. When Pogba was potentially leaving everyone expected (including Neville) for him to go on strike and thought he wouldn't play again after his surgery, yet he turned up for work as a professional should, ready for work

i think that’s the point people are alluding to..Because pundits and the media portray Kane as a “good guy” they will always find mitigating reasons for his actions, despite him having a history of being rather petulant.

Whereas if it was someone that they portray as a “bad guy” we all know the most obvious candidate, they wouldn’t even bother with any mitigating reasons they’d just criticise him and on a much more personal level.. As we’ve already seen for the obvious candidate for much less and he’s never actually been unprofessional or petulant,

100% which is why I can't take people seriously. Full of agenda and emotion. Kane is spurs captain and highest paid player so unless a family member has died and you need compassionate leave then you turn up. Has he handed in a transfer request?

 

[Paxi]

I'm failing to see where there were 26 major trophies but then again I'm not a Spurs supporter.

I know there was the double, a ECWC, a UEFA cup,2 League cups,2 further FA cups

I’ve no idea who that bloke is to be fair.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I’ve no idea who that bloke is to be fair.

Spurs' greatest manager. Shows the lack of progression since the 70s, that the closest they've come to winning something major has been Poch. Imagine utd still looking back to SAF in 50 years time having not won a PL

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

He did have an ankle injury last year didn't he? he just came back a lot quicker than expected. Either way usually with those type of injuries they're weak forever.

Thats simply not true. You’re thinking of knees. Kane’s injuries almost exclusively speak to overuse, not a weakness.

A player that has somewhat frequent pulls or small tears in connective tissue after high use, is in need of careful management. It’s not a red light.

An ACL used to be of a type of injury that would see an ongoing point of concern. Ligaments and tendons (and the part of the muscle that connects) are just circuit breakers. When they get too sore, time off is essential. Play past the warning signs and they tear or snap. Kane has always played unfit and returned from lay offs too soon. He won’t have to do that at his next club. Unless he goes to Roma.

There’s more complexity below the above comments, but we need to appreciate all athletes have a different circuit breaker. Kane’s ankles give out but he hasn’t had repeated full Achilles tears. Others will develop lower back pain. Many will have hip flexors that scream: We see ‘Hip’ injuries listed all the time and people assume it’s an actual hip problem (ie Hip joint). It’s really just another overuse injury.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

what excuse can there be to not show up to work on 200k pw whilst tied to a contract?

None. Which is why he said he couldn’t defend it.

 

[Paxi]

Spurs' greatest manager. Shows the lack of progression since the 70s, that the closest they've come to winning something major has been Poch. Imagine utd still looking back to SAF in 50 years time having not won a PL

Thankfully, we’re not Spurs.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I'm failing to see where there were 26 major trophies but then again I'm not a Spurs supporter.

I know there was the double, a ECWC, a UEFA cup,2 League cups,2 further FA cups

Its 26 for the club sadly, they included the FA charity shield in the figures, I fear the worst with my honest reply among friends, but hope for the best .

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Its 26 for the club sadly, they included the FA charity shield in the figures, I fear the worst with my honest reply among friends, but hope for the best .

Must include his own playing record too. He's already one of the greatest English managers ever but 26 would lift him into the stratosphere

 

[Maluco]

Next year, Kane will be nearly 32 in three years! Spurs need to sell!!

 

[iKnowNothing]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on that Neville interview.

 

[africanspur]

The key issue here is your valuation of Kane. When taking into account contract length, position, talent, etc. there is no one at Manchester United who believes they have overpaid for Varane. For £41 million United fans feel they have purchased a good player at a fair price.
Is £160 million fair for Kane? ... Lets see.



Messi, Ronaldo and Mbappe have an x-factor, a fear factor, a mercurialness that can't be measured by numbers and this goes way beyond just scoring goals. These are the players who lift crowds off their seats and sponsors rushing to clubs. Today Messi and Ronaldo are compared to Pele and Maradona, while people wonder if Mbappe can ever reach this level. Kane is nowhere in the picture. Infact over their equivalent careers, Suarez, Zlatan and Benzema would be considered better than Kane by most people.

Kane is at the same level as Lewandowski, Salah, Higuaín (Napoli-version), Griezmann (Atletico-version) and his career will at best be like Shearer.
Kane's a good player but:
Barca purchased Griezmann for £100 million in 2019
Juventus purchased Higuain from 2nd placed Napoli for £75 million in 2017.
Salah was rumored to have been up for sale if Madrid paid £100-120 million in 2018.

Looking at these comparables, is it fair to value a want-away player at £160 million during a global pandemic? Especially if the player cannot drag a team to glory by himself (Messi, Liverpool Suarez, young Ronaldo).

Actually, the key issue is Levy's valuation of Kane. And with Varane moving for 41 million (with 1 year left), Ings for 30 million, White for 50 million and Lukaku with an incoming bid of 120 million, Kane's value (both objectively and subjectively in terms of his worth to Spurs) is not £100 million.

The second part is a whole load of words that are totally irrelevant to my post. I'm not talking about fear or 'je ne sais quoi' or other such nonsense or even discussing how good each player is. I'm saying there's a handful of players in world football who can guaratee the most important thing in the game, scoring goals. And Kane is one of those. Whether he's the shittest one of them, isnt fit to even look towards Messi or would get beaten up by Zlatan has nothing to do with the transfer of the England captain from one English club to another, state backed, English club.

 

[largelyworried]

Kane is at the same level as Lewandowski, Salah, Higuaín (Napoli-version), Griezmann (Atletico-version) and his career will at best be like Shearer.
Kane's a good player but:
Barca purchased Griezmann for £100 million in 2019
Juventus purchased Higuain from 2nd placed Napoli for £75 million in 2017.
Salah was rumored to have been up for sale if Madrid paid £100-120 million in 2018.

Looking at these comparables, is it fair to value a want-away player at £160 million during a global pandemic? Especially if the player cannot drag a team to glory by himself (Messi, Liverpool Suarez, young Ronaldo).

Pointless making those other comparisons when Grealish is currently heading to City for £100m. That’s the best possible comparison. Same club, same conditions. If Grealish is worth £100m, Kane is certainly worth a chunk more than that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thats simply not true. You’re thinking of knees. Kane’s injuries almost exclusively speak to overuse, not a weakness.

A player that has somewhat frequent pulls or small tears in connective tissue after high use, is in need of careful management. It’s not a red light.

An ACL used to be of a type of injury that would see an ongoing point of concern. Ligaments and tendons (and the part of the muscle that connects) are just circuit breakers. When they get too sore, time off is essential. Play past the warning signs and they tear or snap. Kane has always played unfit and returned from lay offs too soon. He won’t have to do that at his next club. Unless he goes to Roma.

There’s more complexity below the above comments, but we need to appreciate all athletes have a different circuit breaker. Kane’s ankles give out but he hasn’t had repeated full Achilles tears. Others will develop lower back pain. Many will have hip flexors that scream: We see ‘Hip’ injuries listed all the time and people assume it’s an actual hip problem (ie Hip joint). It’s really just another overuse injury.

Eh? it definitely is. I know loads of people that have done their ankles and they've remained weak ever since.

Once you damage ligaments they're always prone to rolling ankles, the strength is simply not there like it once was.

 

[bondsname]

Spurs are the Dortmund of the Premier League, a stepping stone. Ambitious players leave for the better team in the league to win trophies. If you want to play without pressure, go to Spurs.

 

[bond19821982]

You've just dropped 41 million on a centre back with 1 year left. Arsenal have dropped 50 million... On White. Chelsea have bid 100 million for Lukaku and City 100 million for Graelish.

Considering these, what would you consider a fair price?

You just named the price though. He isn't costlier than Lukaku and rightly so. 100 - 120m would be a fair price even in this market.

 

[roonster09]

You just named the price though. He isn't costlier than Lukaku and rightly so. 100 - 120m would be a fair price even in this market.

Why? They both are 28, Kane is easily better player.

If Lukaku is worth 120 million, then Spurs should ask for 150 million for Kane. Looks like Covid is not an excuse anymore looking at the fee.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Because it fits the narrative - he's ancient and injury prone - neither of which are actually true.

Even if he did turn 30 next summer it's not Championship Manager where a player overnight loses 80% of his value or walks out from the door of his house a shadow of the player was was 24 hours earlier.

I mean, ffs. Lewndowski is 33 this month and he's still in his prime.

 

[africanspur]

You just named the price though. He isn't costlier than Lukaku and rightly so. 100 - 120m would be a fair price even in this market.

He is costlier than Lukaku. Because even if they're the same level, he's English, the English captain and moving from one English club who don't need to sell, to another club, who have money to burn.

Whether he's better is another argument (one I won't bother getting into on this board due to previous experience) but that of course is not the only thing which decides value.