Katie Zelem exercises on Instagram wearing juve shorts. Caf goes into meltdown.

VP89

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Mino Raiola says that Paul Pogba wants to stay at Manchester United and “win prizes” but the agent believes the club needs to support the midfielder more.

There's a quote for everything if you don't pick and choose your own reality.
Regardless of what Mino Raiola said above, he has also said he Pogba wants Juventus and also said he tried to engineer a move away from Manchester United.

It's the same reality. He wants to help him move on but is covering all bases as he does so.
 

Deery

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You said ‘maybe the players should grow up and not wear other team’s gear’, which is the same as calling it an act of immaturity or childishness.

My question of ‘what does it mean’ is for you to forward some form of rationale. Without one, it simply isn’t ‘wrong’ for her to have worn the shorts.

To say ‘a player should never wear another team’s kit’ is easy. So when a player actually goes ahead and wears another team’s kit, the realisation of why it was wrong in the first place is supposed to occur. Only to actually say it out loud is what reveals the stupidity of it. And without answering the question of ‘what now’ - we are just left with ‘it’s wrong because it just is’.

For example, if you came out and said, in response to my question of ‘what does it mean’, that ‘it means she has betrayed her club’, it would make you look ridiculous. If you said ‘because it makes us fans feel bad/sad’, it also looks silly of the fans.

What you have is ‘it just is’. Well she’s worn the shorts now, so what does it mean for her, us, the club, her future? A decent answer to any of those will validate why it is supposedly ‘wrong’ in the first place. If nothing has changed with anybody, even slightly, well then ...
No I said it’s a matter of principle and if you are club captain you should be leading by example.
So you think all United fans who would agree with me are childish?

You’re trying to make it out as I have some sinister motive to be attacking this girl which is not true, just like the Pogba racism angle is not true either.

In the long and short of it what will it matter, am sure very little.

But, I’d prefer not to see it if am honest.
 

Rozay

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No I said it’s a matter of principle and if you are club captain you should be leading by example.
So you think all United fans who would agree with me are childish?

You’re trying to make it out as I have some sinister motive to be attacking this girl which is not true, just like the Pogba racism angle is not true either.

In the long and short of it what will it matter, am sure very little.

But, I’d prefer not to see it if am honest.
Fair enough. If presented with a simple ‘yes or no’ question of ‘would you like to see your player wearing a Juventus kit’, I imagine the overwhelming majority would say ‘no’. And yes, I think United fans who have an issue with Zelem wearing Juve shorts to mess around are childish, or - it’s childish to have an issue with it.

I’m not trying to make out you have something sinister against her at all. I was actually trying to make out that there is little basis to be offended here.

As for the Pogba racism ‘angle’, that’s a conversation for another day, and tbh I doubt there would be any agreement if I was to go into that rabbit hole anyway. Not that I mentioned racism (not today anyway), but there are so many harmful racial prejudices in the game today, a far bigger issue than Pogba alone, and will take this thread in a totally different place. Also, sometimes even I need a break from fighting the entire Anti-Pog race on Redcafe and beyond.
 

Deery

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Fair enough. If presented with a simple ‘yes or no’ question of ‘would you like to see your player wearing a Juventus kit’, I imagine the overwhelming majority would say ‘no’. And yes, I think United fans who have an issue with Zelem wearing Juve shorts to mess around are childish, or - it’s childish to have an issue with it.

I’m not trying to make out you have something sinister against her at all. I was actually trying to make out that there is little basis to be offended here.

As for the Pogba racism ‘angle’, that’s a conversation for another day, and tbh I doubt there would be any agreement if I was to go into that rabbit hole anyway. Not that I mentioned racism (not today anyway), but there are so many harmful racial prejudices in the game today, a far bigger issue than Pogba alone, and will take this thread in a totally different place. Also, sometimes even I need a break from fighting the entire Anti-Pog race on Redcafe and beyond.
Yeah, it can be tiresome sometimes I wonder why I bother getting involved in Pogba discussion at all it only annoys me.
 

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I know. It was partly tongue in cheek but people were clearly delighted to have another reason to pile on him. Even after he mentioned it in his post.
The reason he wrote that was because he knew it would stir up shit.

This might come as a shock, but there is not some secret cabal of United supporters who hate one of our most talented players for no reason. If Pogba had no history with Juventus and had not been linked there, no one would bat an eyelid of him in a Juve shirt. If he wanted to show support to Matuidi he could have worn a French shirt with his name on it, if he wanted to show support to Italy he could have worn an Italian kit

Or he could have simply made a video showing his support without wearing a kit of a club hes been linked with. Especially considering hes hardly played for us this season and still there has been so much noise around him
 

He'sRaldo

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The reason he wrote that was because he knew it would stir up shit.

This might come as a shock, but there is not some secret cabal of United supporters who hate one of our most talented players for no reason. If Pogba had no history with Juventus and had not been linked there, no one would bat an eyelid of him in a Juve shirt. If he wanted to show support to Matuidi he could have worn a French shirt with his name on it, if he wanted to show support to Italy he could have worn an Italian kit

Or he could have simply made a video showing his support without wearing a kit of a club hes been linked with. Especially considering hes hardly played for us this season and still there has been so much noise around him
This shows that the issue is with him wanting to leave, as opposed to him wearing another shirt. And no one has a problem with that.

The problem people have is extrapolating that anger (or whatever) at him wanting to leave and placing it on everything he does, including the shirt thing. Lindelof (a first-team male Utd player) wore a different shirt as well and no one really cared, showing that people aren't really angry at the shirt gesture, they're simply angry at Pogba and use the shirt thing to justify it.

It's fine to be angry at him wanting to leave, but what others have been saying is using this shirt thing makes it look a bit petulant. Be angry at him fine, but don't overreact to every little thing he does and try and paint him as a scheming pantomime villain.
 

VeevaVee

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I mean, obviously these two things are the same because Katie Zelem has constantly been in the papers as well as had her loyalty questioned due to flirting with going back to Juventus before choosing to wear Juventus gear knowing full well a big deal will be made of it despite leaving a caption.

It's a massively petty thread this. But seeing as OP wants to continue the Pogba chat..

The biggest problem with Pogba doing it, in my eyes at least, is that he's purposely winding things up which is disrespectful to the fans. It's a struggle to really care but it's a shit thing to do when there's already questions about the circus around you and with performances. That many people can't recognise that is massively telling of a platitude of things about them.
 

2 man midfield

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People are ignoring context here. The main reason Lindelof isn’t getting judged is because of the difference in context.

Basically Pogba has form for this sort of dopey stuff, and clearly wants to join Juventus. He’s free to do what he wants on social media, but people are also free to judge him for that.
 

Samid

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She's becoming a real problem now. Flirting with rival players for some reason:


Time to cut our losses.
 

izec

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Bobcat

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This shows that the issue is with him wanting to leave, as opposed to him wearing another shirt. And no one has a problem with that.

The problem people have is extrapolating that anger (or whatever) at him wanting to leave and placing it on everything he does, including the shirt thing. Lindelof (a first-team male Utd player) wore a different shirt as well and no one really cared, showing that people aren't really angry at the shirt gesture, they're simply angry at Pogba and use the shirt thing to justify it.

It's fine to be angry at him wanting to leave, but what others have been saying is using this shirt thing makes it look a bit petulant. Be angry at him fine, but don't overreact to every little thing he does and try and paint him as a scheming pantomime villain.
Well, yeah. People were upset with Ronaldo as well when he wanted to join Real, but he contributed 4x as much to the club as Pogba has and did not make half as much noise as Pogba has so far
 

cyril C

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Juventus is not going to, and hardly does, pay top dollar for any player. They probably try to engineer a Ramsey on Pogba. IMO we should sell Pogba in any financial arrangement including instalment scheme.
 

Grande

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It’s a false analogy but she hasn’t spent the last year trying to engineering a move out of United with Juve one of the major clubs shes being linked to. In women’s football they have shorter contracts too and players move around more freely for little in transfer fees. It’s just not as emotive in the women’s game and people care less generally. The spirit of why Pogba was criticised for that post just doesn’t exist here.

I don’t care one way or the other but it just isn’t the same thing.
I think that Paul Pogba has quite a bit to learn from Katie Zelem both on and off the field, and also that the fans ‘melting down’ over Pogba has something to learn from
fans being relaxed about Katie Zelem. ;k)
 

GiddyUp

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The players aren’t fans. The only shirt that matters is the one a player wears to play his or her matches. I still cannot get my head around an adult saying that the other adult is the immature one because they wore a different shirt or shorts in their home to the one they play matches with. Football is seemingly consuming people.

Fans paying money to watch football entitles them to demand what a player wears in his or her house?! Players swap shirts all the time. If a young Tranmere player managed to swap shirts with a Pogba or Harry Kane - I’d expect that they might want to wear it for a kick about. This is all in keeping with modern over-analysis of football, and has spread to off the field.

I ask again, now that this young lady has worn Juve shorts while working out, probably because she thought, ‘shorts are shorts’ - what does it now mean exactly?
So how many professional footballers walk around in the jerseys of the teams they supported when they were younger? feck all I'd imagine. The bottom line is the unspoken rule for professional footballers is not to walk around in other clubs merchandise. You may call it childish but it's not. If I walked around the office wearing a competitor's logo it would be a problem for me.
Katie's shorts bear no resemblance to Pogba wearing another teams jersey after the bullshit surrounding him for two years. The disclaimer in his tweet indicates that he knew exactly what he was doing.
 

JPRouve

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So how many professional footballers walk around in the jerseys of the teams they supported when they were younger? feck all I'd imagine. The bottom line is the unspoken rule for professional footballers is not to walk around in other clubs merchandise. You may call it childish but it's not. If I walked around the office wearing a competitor's logo it would be a problem for me.
Katie's shorts bear no resemblance to Pogba wearing another teams jersey after the bullshit surrounding him for two years. The disclaimer in his tweet indicates that he knew exactly what he was doing.
But he didn't walk around with an other team jersey? He wore it at home for a very specific reason.

Now, you do see players wear other teams jersey every single weeks, when they swap them at the end of games, they seemingly missed the memo about your unwritten rule.

 

GiddyUp

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But he didn't walk around with an other team jersey? He wore it at home for a very specific reason.

Now, you do see players wear other teams jersey every single weeks, when they swap them at the end of games, they seemingly missed the memo about your unwritten rule.

Ffs, go to bed pal.
 

GiddyUp

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You can laugh but to post a picture of players wearing each others shirts after a match is a stupid reply. We get it, Pogba does no wrong in your eyes, it's the club, fans and world that's the problem.
 

Rozay

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So how many professional footballers walk around in the jerseys of the teams they supported when they were younger? feck all I'd imagine. The bottom line is the unspoken rule for professional footballers is not to walk around in other clubs merchandise. You may call it childish but it's not. If I walked around the office wearing a competitor's logo it would be a problem for me.
Katie's shorts bear no resemblance to Pogba wearing another teams jersey after the bullshit surrounding him for two years. The disclaimer in his tweet indicates that he knew exactly what he was doing.
Several, to answer your question. Players swap jerseys, have their friends jerseys etc - and I’ve seen them wear them at times, and that’s without even considering that neither you or I have a clue about what they wear outside of work on a daily basis to be saying ‘unwritten rule’.

And the disclaimer at the bottom was for the dummies, actually. There was an obvious assumption that the purpose of the video would be clear to most adults, but a conscious decision to literally spell it out for the rest, to avoid what they have still chosen to insist upon anyway.

And in no universe is it not childish and embarrassing for a grown man to have an ACTUAL problem for a player wearing a different shirt outside of work. As I said, what if it was a Brazil shirt? Would that mean he wants to be Brazilian? What about a Boca Juniors shirt? What about an LA Lakers shirt?

Only weirdos, unless it was some retro classic, would even wear a Manchester United shirt outside (which I saw many people requesting in the other thread). A Manchester United player seen wearing a United shirt to the shops would just look like a fool to me, far less so than if he was wearing an AC Milan or Barcelona one.
 

JPRouve

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You can laugh but to post a picture of players wearing each others shirts after a match is a stupid reply. We get it, Pogba does no wrong in your eyes, it's the club, fans and world that's the problem.
I laugh because you make up a rule that never existed, you act as if Pogba was walking around in other team jerseys when you know this specific context and while Pogba can and has done wrong in the past, it doesn't mean that every fantasy you come up with are valid.
 

GiddyUp

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Several, to answer your question. Players swap jerseys, have their friends jerseys etc - and I’ve seen them wear them at times, and that’s without even considering that neither you or I have a clue about what they wear outside of work on a daily basis to be saying ‘unwritten rule’.

And the disclaimer at the bottom was for the dummies, actually. There was an obvious assumption that the purpose of the video would be clear to most adults, but a conscious decision to literally spell it out for the rest, to avoid what they have still chosen to insist upon anyway.

And in no universe is it not childish and embarrassing for a grown man to have an ACTUAL problem for a player wearing a different shirt outside of work. As I said, what if it was a Brazil shirt? Would that mean he wants to be Brazilian? What about a Boca Juniors shirt? What about an LA Lakers shirt?

Only weirdos, unless it was some retro classic, would even wear a Manchester United shirt outside (which I saw many people requesting in the other thread). A Manchester United player seen wearing a United shirt to the shops would just look like a fool to me, far less so than if he was wearing an AC Milan or Barcelona one.
You are confusing club football with international. I'll leave it there buddy, you are kinda boring me at this point.
 

Rozay

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I laugh because you make up a rule that never existed, you act as if Pogba was walking around in other team jerseys when you know this specific context and while Pogba can and has done wrong in the past, it doesn't mean that every fantasy you come up with are valid.
Exactly this. The context is everything. And if we work backwards through his response, it’s obvious that he and many others probably understand that deep down. They are just refusing to apply the common sense, I don’t even think it’s because they don’t get it.

If he genuinely thought it was an unwritten rule to not wear a different shirt, he would not have said ‘its (Zelem) not the same as Pogba wearing a Juve shirt’ - he would have said ‘it’s not the same as Pogba and Lindelöf wearing Italian shirts’. Even the thread title of the other thread which was changed to incite outrage says ‘Lindelöf trains with Pogba, Pogba wears Juve shirt’. No mention of the Sampdoria shirt. And for the record, I’m not saying there should be either. I’m just highlighting the same people are easily able to apply the necessary common sense should they choose to.

Now Pogba’s situation is different to Lindelöf only because he’s been linked with Juventus. And that is the problem, not any crap about footballers not being allowed to wear different shirts. And I accept that under normal circumstances, it would be unwise for Pogba to wear a Juventus shirt right now. As a unique case. Nobody would care if it was an AC Milan shirt so let’s cut the crap about players simply shouldn’t wear shirts. Jadon Sancho would be unwise, presently, to wear a United shirt on his IG. A Crystal Palace one, his local team when he grew up, would be fine. This is where the context of Pogba wearing the shirt is important. You can’t just, in your determination to be enraged, ignore his rationale. He literally told us why he’s wearing the shirt, understanding that normally, it may look wrong.
 

GiddyUp

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I laugh because you make up a rule that never existed, you act as if Pogba was walking around in other team jerseys when you know this specific context and while Pogba can and has done wrong in the past, it doesn't mean that every fantasy you come up with are valid.
It's not a fantasy, he basically put a disclaimer in the tweet and his agent was hawking him to Madrid a couple of days later. I see Lindelof didn't need to explain himself. So all this public bullshit to get him out of United isn't happening?
You do know that there are subtle ways to get what you want or to serve your own agenda. Pogba doesn't have to go on the evening news and say he wants to leave now. There are many ways to get to that point and Pogba and his agent are exhausting everyone of them. I get you are a big fan of Pogba. I am not. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter just as much as yours. I respect your views and I do agree that he has been scapegoated somewhat but my fecking god does he bring it upon himself. And that is why I feel the club could do without.
 

JPRouve

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Exactly this. The context is everything. And if we work backwards through his response, it’s obvious that he and many others probably understand that deep down. They are just refusing to apply the common sense, I don’t even think it’s because they don’t get it.

If he genuinely thought it was an unwritten rule to not wear a different shirt, he would not have said ‘its (Zelem) not the same as Pogba wearing a Juve shirt’ - he would have said ‘it’s not the same as Pogba and Lindelöf wearing Italian shirts’. Even the thread title of the other thread which was changed to incite outrage says ‘Lindelöf trains with Pogba, Pogba wears Juve shirt’. No mention of the Sampdoria shirt. And for the record, I’m not saying there should be either. I’m just highlighting the same people are easily able to apply the necessary common sense should they choose to.

Now Pogba’s situation is different to Lindelöf only because he’s been linked with Juventus. And that is the problem, not any crap about footballers not being allowed to wear different shirts. And I accept that under normal circumstances, it would be unwise for Pogba to wear a Juventus shirt right now. As a unique case. Nobody would care if it was an AC Milan shirt so let’s cut the crap about players simply shouldn’t wear shirts. Jadon Sancho would be unwise, presently, to wear a United shirt on his IG. A Crystal Palace one, his local team when he grew up, would be fine. This is where the context of Pogba wearing the shirt is important. You can’t just, in your determination to be enraged, ignore his rationale. He literally told us why he’s wearing the shirt, understanding that normally, it may look wrong.
Exactly while I don't care about this particular type of things in all circumstances, without the Covid context I would totally understand people being on Pogba's back. But here it's just senseless.
 

JPRouve

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It's not a fantasy, he basically put a disclaimer in the tweet and his agent was hawking him to Madrid a couple of days later. I see Lindelof didn't need to explain himself. So all this public bullshit to get him out of United isn't happening?
You do know that there are subtle ways to get what you want or to serve your own agenda. Pogba doesn't have to go on the evening news and say he wants to leave now. There are many ways to get to that point and Pogba and his agent are exhausting everyone of them. I get you are a big fan of Pogba. I am not. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter just as much as yours. I respect your views and I do agree that he has been scapegoated somewhat but my fecking god does he bring it upon himself. And that is why I feel the club could do without.
@Rozay look at that. In response to a post about the unwritten rule, we have a post that totally ignores said rule.

PS: I'm not a big fan of Pogba, he can leave tomorrow and I would care one bit, I may have an issue with the way we replace him though. So stop that nonsense about me being a fan and trying to diminish my point based on things you have no clue about.
 

GiddyUp

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@Rozay look at that. In response to a post about the unwritten rule, we have a post that totally ignores said rule.

PS: I'm not a big fan of Pogba, he can leave tomorrow and I would care one bit, I may have an issue with the way we replace him though. So stop that nonsense about me being a fan and trying to diminish my point based on things you have no clue about.
Whatever.
 

48 hours

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She's becoming a real problem now. Flirting with rival players for some reason:


Time to cut our losses.
Lauren James, the sister of Reece James, there too. Lauren plays for Uniteds womens team as well. More meltdown reasons